Dex based BladeLock: how much AC is enough?

[JakOfAllTirades]

I'm running a 7th level FeyLock, Pact of the Blade, and my AC is currently a bit weak. I've got Armor of Shadows and a 19 Dex, which puts my AC at 17.

For my 8th level feat I'm taking Moderately Armored, which will give me a 20 Dex, Medium Armor and Shield proficiency. (Yes, I know I could MC into Fighter, but it'll delay my spellcasting progression. Not gonna happen, ever.) I don't have any magic armor yet, so Armor of Shadows + Shield (AC20) will still be better than either Studded Leather + Shield (AC19) or Half Plate + Shield. (AC19 again)

The question: Is it worth the Invocation slot to keep that extra point of AC, or should I swap it out for another Invocation? Currently I've also got Mask of Many Faces, Thirsting Blade, and Improved Pact Blade. (All keepers.) I'm considering Eldritch Smite because I could use a good nova attack. Any other recommendations (for Invocations, not mult-classing) would be welcome.

Thanx heaps.

[nickl_2000]

Why moderately armored when you Dex will be 20? The overall AC between Studded Leather with 20 Dex and Half-Plate with 20 Dex is exactly the same. Then you get disadvantage on Dex saves for no real bonus that I see. Now, if you are talking about Medium Armor Mastery, that is different, but I don't think you are considering you are comparing it to multi-classing.

As for how much is enough, well that depends on your play style. Are you tanking? Are you playing a whip reach build? Are you often in the thick of things melee wise? Who else is in the party?

[Vogie]

Why moderately armored when you Dex will be 20?
For Shield proficiency, presumably. They're an Archfey, so they don't have it baked in. The math checks out.

Personally, I'd use Mage Armor to get to 20 AC. If you're even occasionally getting hit, you're going to want to have a high AC. If you don't want to get it from the invocation, you can use a wizard or sorcerer dip, or via the magic initiate feat.

Other Invocation options to be tanky:

Fiendish Vigor - Start each fight with 8 THP with no spell slot cost OR be able to grant yourself 1d4+4 THP with an action after AoA falls off.
Tomb Of Levistus - You can completely avoid an enemy's nova with 80 THP with a well-placed Ice Block once per rest.

[Spiritchaser]

What is your race and what are you typically casting?

As a level 7 feylock it could be Greater Invisibility.

The advantage from GI is often discussed in combination with GWM, and as a Dex build, that isn’t you... but don’t underestimate how much damage it adds to any build.

No it won’t be as much as hex on easy targets, (the transition happens around a roll of 9 to hit needed) but on hard targets it’ll be more. It’ll help a lot, and effectively adds 4-5 to your AC against most foes. Once you hit level 12 it’ll generally be more damage than hex.

And then... if you happen to be an elf?

If you happen to be an elf and take your Dex from 19 to 20 with Elven Accuracy... then that triple roll very nearly always does get you as much damage as hex even against easy targets, and especially after level 12, and you’re still very tough to hit

And you are invisible, with all the mechanical andtactical advantages that brings.

Now don’t get me wrong, hex is a bonus action and GI isn’t, so for short combats, it won’t make sense, Cast hex.

Hex has better resource efficiency too...

But if the going looks tough, Cast GI and dance through the misses

[JakOfAllTirades]

What is your race and what are you typically casting?

As a level 7 feylock it could be Greater Invisibility.

The advantage from GI is often discussed in combination with GWM, and as a Dex build, that isn’t you... but don’t underestimate how much damage it adds to any build.

No it won’t be as much as hex on easy targets, (the transition happens around a roll of 9 to hit needed) but on hard targets it’ll be more. It’ll help a lot, and effectively adds 4-5 to your AC against most foes. Once you hit level 12 it’ll generally be more damage than hex.

And then... if you happen to be an elf?

If you happen to be an elf and take your Dex from 19 to 20 with Elven Accuracy... then that triple roll very nearly always does get you as much damage as hex even against easy targets, and especially after level 12, and you’re still very tough to hit

And you are invisible, with all the mechanical andtactical advantages that brings.

Now don’t get me wrong, hex is a bonus action and GI isn’t, so for short combats, it won’t make sense, Cast hex.

Hex has better resource efficiency too...

But if the going looks tough, Cast GI and dance through the misses

Elven Accuracy was my 4th level feat, so that's a done deal. I'm playing a half-elf. Greater Invisibility is a solid choice, so yes I'll do that.

Edit: With Greater Invisibility, I won't really need AC20 so much, so I'll probably swap out Armor of Shadows. A crit-fishing build cries out for Eldritch Smite!

[nickl_2000]

For Shield proficiency, presumably. They're an Archfey, so they don't have it baked in. The math checks out.

Personally, I'd use Mage Armor to get to 20 AC. If you're even occasionally getting hit, you're going to want to have a high AC. If you don't want to get it from the invocation, you can use a wizard or sorcerer dip, or via the magic initiate feat.

Other Invocation options to be tanky:

Fiendish Vigor - Start each fight with 8 THP with no spell slot cost OR be able to grant yourself 1d4+4 THP with an action after AoA falls off.
Tomb Of Levistus - You can completely avoid an enemy's nova with 80 THP with a well-placed Ice Block once per rest.


Of course, thank you for the reminder that it gives a shield as well.

[Man_Over_Game]

You're not running a shield. Have you considered grabbing some Sorcerer levels? Spells like Shield and Absorb Elements don't work for shield-bearers, since those spells require a free hand, so you're a great candidate for them.

Grabbing 1 Sorcerer level will make those spells accessible with Sorcerer slots (which are a decent amount).
Grabbing 2 Sorcerer levels will make those spells accessible by converting Warlock spell slots into Sorcerer slots (meaning you can cast those spells almost all the time).

Storm Sorcery might seem like an odd choice, but moving 10 feet, before or after casting a spell (and don't forget that Warlocks have a lot of AoE burst effects), could really make a solid impact on your defensive/offensive combos.

Cast Thunderstep, but first I move directly into the middle of the enemy team.
Cast Summon Lesser Demons, but now I can safely move as far away from the demons I spawned behind the enemy group so nothing can break my Concentration.
Cast Arms of Hadar, but not before moving into the enemy group, and now that you don't have reactions I can just waltz out.

[CTurbo]

I think Moderately Armored is a good feat for non Hex Warlocks especially with an odd Dex stat. Basically +3 to AC sounds worth it to me.

Before Hexblades existed, I made a vhuman Fiendlock that started with Moderately Armored and even though I never used weapons, I loved to be in the thick of things not having to worry about being too squishy.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I think Moderately Armored is a good feat for non Hex Warlocks especially with an odd Dex stat. Basically +3 to AC sounds worth it to me.

Before Hexblades existed, I made a vhuman Fiendlock that started with Moderately Armored and even though I never used weapons, I loved to be in the thick of things not having to worry about being too squishy.

That was my thinking. I just need to make up my mind whether to keep Armor of Shadows or put on some studded leather and find some magic armor or a magic shield later on. Freeing up the Invocation slot is really tempting.

[CTurbo]

That was my thinking. I just need to make up my mind whether to keep Armor of Shadows or put on some studded leather and find some magic armor or a magic shield later on. Freeing up the Invocation slot is really tempting.

I went with Breatsplate and then eventually +1 Glamorous Studded Leather so l could free up the invocation slot.

[CTurbo]

I went with Breatsplate and then eventually +1 Glamorous Studded Leather so l could free up the invocation slot.

Wait I'm getting my characters confused. This guy stuck with Breastplate. The Glamorous Leather guy was my 20 Dex Bladelock. Sorry.

[Sigreid]

I would wear armor and put the invocation into something that will provide a broader benefit than 1ac. Every bit of AC helps, but there's too much power in an invocation to spend it on just 1.

[Arelai]

Each point of AC makes it 5% harder for enemies to hit you.

So, is the difference between a 40-45% chance of being hit more important to you than a cool new ability?

[Blood of Gaea]

14 Dex for 17-19 AC is enough when you consider you eventually will be spending a lot of your time with enemies attacking you with disadvantage (Darkness/Shadow of Moil/Foresight).

[JakOfAllTirades]

14 Dex for 17-19 AC is enough when you consider you eventually will be spending a lot of your time with enemies attacking you with disadvantage (Darkness/Shadow of Moil/Foresight).

I'm looking at AC19 with 20 Dex and Studded Leather and a Shield. Greater Invisibility to give attackers disadvantage. Although I'd rather cast Hex when possible.

[Blood of Gaea]

I'm looking at AC19 with 20 Dex and Studded Leather and a Shield. Greater Invisibility to give attackers disadvantage. Although I'd rather cast Hex when possible.
Just keep in mind that Greater Invisibility/Shadow of Moil also give you advantage and make it harder to target you, both of which can be extremely valuable. Meanwhile, hex is just giving you up to 2d6 damage a round. Though Hex also has some nice utility if your party has a grappler.

Also, don't forget that medium armor is better AC until 20 dex.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Just keep in mind that Greater Invisibility/Shadow of Moil also give you advantage and make it harder to target you, both of which can be extremely valuable. Meanwhile, hex is just giving you up to 2d6 damage a round. Though Hex also has some nice utility if your party has a grappler.

Also, don't forget that medium armor is better AC until 20 dex.

I'm at 20 Dex as of my next level-up. Unless I get killed next session. :smalltongue: I've got a grappler in the group so Hex is useful that way. Also an Rogue/Assassin so sometimes it's useful to nerf an enemy's Wisdom/Perception. And 2d6 damage per round adds up quite nicely when I'm hitting consistently, which I do. So it's a tough call whether to use Greater Invisibility v. Hex. Even with Elven Accuracy, I don't seem to get as many natural 20's as I expect, which makes me nervous of crit-fishing builds.

[RSP]

Personally, with that AC, I’d drop AoS, and plan on using Hex at the start of any dungeon crawls where you think you can get a few combat uses out of it (assuming you’re not in the thick of things or you have a reliable Conc save).

Then spend slots on non-Conc uses (like AoA or Smites, I prefer the former), and plan on maintaining Hex through any SRs to free up extra slots while maintaining the damage bump.

When facing a significant threat, like a boss battle, cast either GI or Shadow of Moil (I prefer the latter), for the Adv on attacks and Disadvantage when getting attacked (and for SoM the retributive dam - works very well paired with AoA).

AoA + SoM makes the 1 AC difference negligible, in my estimation.