Spheres of Might Playtest - Tech Sphere

[Mehangel]

I am here to announce the start of the playtest for the Tech sphere.

If you are asking what Spheres of Might (https://paizo.com/products/btpy9wvv?Spheres-of-Might) is, it is an alternate combat system for Pathfinder by Drop Dead Studios (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/).

The Tech sphere to put it bluntly largely takes Pathfinder's Technology Guide and DDS's Technician class, puts them into a blender and filters them out as a combat sphere similar to the Alchemy and Trap spheres.

Tech Sphere Playtest, The Inventor's Handbook, v3 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bo5PW5IV0XZ975NjalkepxTp92qcd5iWMxndv0Dykos/edit#) - Playtesting is now over, the pdf is available for purchase online.

Tech Sphere Playtest, the Inventor's Handbook, v1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ABTja-uWJVcDX5y1anx94B75s6YdjTyXFdLMrX0jlw/edit).
Rework v1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dg09mFwYTRtYQk9b5k5eE0M81dfci8e8YWJ2QZS9H-k/edit)
Rework v2 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hrv9qS5jsQxi7fmsk2N98zqeJ7Nypti5wRHSWmiTsx4/edit)
Rework v3 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bS6cWgAK2jEBdDCi1h13XKplKdC8G1hgm9LtmnSOMYE/edit?usp=sharing)

Tech Sphere Playtest, The Inventor's Handbook, v2 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eoa_P4pr4jWX4Oyc5Q6pWGel2KRzz2sARKKTo6ZLi3U/edit?usp=sharing)

Tech Sphere v2 - Rework 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LvIm1dl5jQlODHNMwEtDwSP-r61goQ9ngqLyoogIFkY/edit)


Hold nothing (pertinent) back. Thanks for all your help.

[Thealtruistorc]

Boy howdy am I getting ideas here. Will have a full rundown later, hopefully.

[Castilonium]

Looks magnifique so far :smallsmile: I'm always happy to see spheres that provide out-of-combat utility! I have some questions and criticisms.

Can Disable Device be used instead of Craft (mechanical) to deactivate an enemy's schematics?

Chainsaw is more powerful than a Butchering Axe because it has a better crit range, no strength requirement, and the creator is automatically proficient. The hour/charge duration means it'll be available during your whole adventuring day, most days. You get 3 charges at level 1 if you take the Technophile trait, which I suspect a lot of Tech sphere users will. And even if you need to adventure more than 3 hours, all you have to do is spend 15 minutes to make another chainsaw. All of this for only 1 talent. Even non-SoM users can get it with 1 feat. The only mitigating factor is that it might fall behind at higher levels because it doesn't have an enhancement bonus like a regular weapon would, but anyone with the Enhancement sphere can change that.

Chemalyzer and Electronic Lock Pick are way too weak and narrow to justify spending talents on.

The schematic limit makes it tough to use Commset at low levels since you need to create at least 2 in order for it to be of any benefit to your party. Maybe it could give a free receiver when created to give to an ally.

What happens when the Shelter from Emergency Supplies runs out of charges? Does it deflate, or does it just lose its protections from the environment?

Evac Drone doesn't seem worth a talent on its own. It might be better if it's combined into the same talent as Medic Drone.

Missile Cannon costs a talent, an active schematic, and a hand for the ability to cast Magic Missile with poor scaling, limited by charges. Its usefulness is not worth its costs.

Taser might be too powerful. +1d8 nonlethal damage/level and fort save or sickened + staggered is super strong all on its own, and you're adding it to any nonlethal attack with the only limiting factor being charges.

The Technophile trait is just too good with its +2 charges on each schematic. It's practically mandatory for any serious Tech sphere user. It virtually makes you a level 8 character when calculating how many charges you have for gadgets. Its power compounds the more invested you are in the Tech sphere, because it gives every single one of your schematics more charges.

[Minion #6]

The Technophile trait is just too good with its +2 charges on each schematic. It's practically mandatory for any serious Tech sphere user. It virtually makes you a level 8 character when calculating how many charges you have for gadgets. Its power compounds the more invested you are in the Tech sphere, because it gives every single one of your schematics more charges.

This is a good point and I agree. Things seem to be balanced around having very few charges, which leaves some of the weapon type ones as being essentially useless compared to just using a standard weapon, and the battery talent virtually just a talent tax. I perhaps think that the conscript sphere specialisation 3rd level ability should be the default rather than conscript unique.

[Quarian Rex]

The Technophile trait is just too good with its +2 charges on each schematic. It's practically mandatory for any serious Tech sphere user. It virtually makes you a level 8 character when calculating how many charges you have for gadgets. Its power compounds the more invested you are in the Tech sphere, because it gives every single one of your schematics more charges.

This is a good point and I agree. Things seem to be balanced around having very few charges, which leaves some of the weapon type ones as being essentially useless compared to just using a standard weapon, and the battery talent virtually just a talent tax. I perhaps think that the conscript sphere specialisation 3rd level ability should be the default rather than conscript unique.


I think that you guys are a bit off base here. While you are right that the Battery talent is a bit of a talent tax... I think that it is one that kinda works. This is the Tech Sphere after all and the added level of resource management that the Battery provides is quite appropriate. The difference in utility from base charge limits to the extended usage of having a Battery is (almost) worthy of a talent and is a close(ish) parallel to how technology works in our world (tech toys don't really change the world till they have a way for their usefulness to be sustained), and acts as an interesting counterpoint/difference to how magic (items) work, which are either always useful or limited without the option to increase those limits.

The utility of the Battery at lower levels is too low though, especially for how important the talent is to the sphere as a whole. I think that the charges provided by the Battery should be changed from "charges equal to your ranks in Craft (mechanical)" to "charges equal to your ranks in Craft (mechanical) plus your practitioner modifier". That would provide a usable number of extra charges, even at low levels, worthy of a talent expenditure, and help justify the low charge limits native to drones/gadgets/etc. Sustained use is expected to use Batteries.

As for the Technophile trait, I think that it is actually good as is. Does it provide a good quality of life bonus? Yes, it really does. Is it mandatory? Not if you consider Battery to be the game changing addition that it should be (if you agree with my above suggestion), just as it is in our world (well, similar types of portable energy storage, whether actual batteries/gasoline/ammunition/etc.). It does, however, provide a tangible difference between someone from a technological society (or just a lover of the Tech) and a random barbarian using the same gear, which is appropriate in a fantasy game like this.

[khadgar567]

well, nice content drones gave interesting options in both in and outside combat as free healing or decent damage without magic.

[Cybershark]

Observations off the top of my head as I read the sphere. Take with a grain of salt



Rigger is conceptually boring but necessary to marry Technician to the Tech sphere. Not sure how to feel about that. It stacks with just about everything, though, so it's not like it's going to be an uncommon archetype to see. If you're fine with losing an invention slot it's good. Overall 6/10, executes what it wants to do alright but doesn't strive for anything greater.
Space Marine is neat but doesn't actually do anything great. Laser rifles need more shots per charge. If it has combat training, Machine Gun is useless because it can't be used to make attack actions. Might want to make an exception for Space Marine in there, because otherwise it's completely replaced by a Gunfighter just TAKING the Machine Gun or Laser Rifle talent
Conscript Tech sphere specialization is kind of alright. Reminds me of the Alchemy sphere. Doubling the number of schematics you can make at any one time is probably enough. Would rather the 3rd level ability be turned into something that gives unique benefits with the Tech sphere. Maybe a Drone pal that doesn't count against your HD and gains traits too.
Prodigy Integrated Techniques need help. Mass Self-Destruct is weird. Destroying your schematics is not a great plan. There's not that many schematics I would WANT to detonate, apart from Tracker chips or a Drone... which I would rather keep alive, because it can heal me or my allies. Maybe this would be more fun to use if there were gadgets that you could attach to enemies or use that weren't buffs or utility gadgets, but debuffs or area of effect gadgets (a turret, perhaps))
Charges need to be sidebar'd. It's a bit dizzying skimming back and forth on stuff.
Camera (Drone): Face Recognition- what does "exclude" mean in this situation? Will it make its best attempt not to damage the listed target, OR will it alter its attacks in order to not damage the target? Can facial recognition be defeated by Disguise if you designate a certain creature?
The drone photographs need to be made better, or video needs to be nerfed. Or at least specified so that photographs are higher quality than video.
Cyberfiber Muscles and compatriots are odd. Why isn't there a Dexterity-based counterpart to complete the trio? It's a common sci-fi staple that you can enhance reflexes via cybernetics. Dermal Plating and Nanite armor are pretty underwhelming, Nanite Armor especially. Dermal Plating is only useful should you ALREADY have a natural armor bonus (not an enhancement bonus as such). Nanite Armor is only slightly better than a Ring of Protection. I would be more interested if there were a talent that allowed one to activate multiple grafts of this type at once
I'm surprised we can't graft machine guns and laser pistols to ourselves. What kind of weapon is the Machine gun? Two-handed like a Bren gun or one-handed like an Uzi?
Mass Drone Deployment would be interesting, if the user could have multiple drones at maximum HD. But as it stands the only way to get enough drones to DO so would be to be a Technician that somehow uses up all their invention slots for drones... which is not a particularly great idea.
Medic Drone is way too complex. It should be turned into a gadget, and then allowed to be used by the drone.
Particle weapon ought to be a graft too. I want a laser hand to punch people with
Generally too much stuff is tacked onto a drone ability when it should be a gadget, which can then be attached to a drone. It would make for much cleaner design if one could just (graft) (gadgets) to a (drone).

[Mehangel]

Lots of good feedback, I am slowly going through the comments and making changes. Keep them coming.

[Seerow]

I haven't dug too deeply into it, but right now my initial impression is that I feel like Drones should just fall under their own sphere. There's at least as much potential there as there is in the Animal Sphere, I just don't quite understand why it's being packaged together with the Grafts and Gadgets besides thematic overlap. On the other hand, if there is some hardcoded limit in the Spheres system for number of talents you can put into one sphere, I haven't noticed it, so maybe Tech can just be one giant super sphere.



Off that topic, just want to make sure I understand the Charge system being used here correctly. Each schematic has a number of charges when created. Once those charges are gone, the gadget is rendered unusable and needs to be replaced (with the exception of the Permanent Schematic from Sphere Specialization if you happen to be a 20th level conscript). You can create a new schematic in 30 minutes, so your real limit is in how many schematics you can have lying around/active at once, since as soon as one schematic runs out of charges you spend 30 minutes making a new one to replace it.

I guess my question is, if I understand that right, why? I don't get the appeal of a constant rotating set tech. In the case of Gadgets, sure I can see it. But for grafts the idea of being forced to constantly switch out something like subdermal plating just seems weird. Similarly, something like a drone can take on a life of its own in the hands of players, it is sad to have to replace it with a new one basically every day, or in some cases multiple times a day. Not to mention the balance is much harder when you can just replace something with 30 minutes of downtime. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd like to see some option for recharging existing schematics rather than trashing them in favor of brand new ones.

[Minion #6]

I haven't dug too deeply into it, but right now my initial impression is that I feel like Drones should just fall under their own sphere. There's at least as much potential there as there is in the Animal Sphere, I just don't quite understand why it's being packaged together with the Grafts and Gadgets besides thematic overlap. On the other hand, if there is some hardcoded limit in the Spheres system for number of talents you can put into one sphere, I haven't noticed it, so maybe Tech can just be one giant super sphere.



Off that topic, just want to make sure I understand the Charge system being used here correctly. Each schematic has a number of charges when created. Once those charges are gone, the gadget is rendered unusable and needs to be replaced (with the exception of the Permanent Schematic from Sphere Specialization if you happen to be a 20th level conscript). You can create a new schematic in 30 minutes, so your real limit is in how many schematics you can have lying around/active at once, since as soon as one schematic runs out of charges you spend 30 minutes making a new one to replace it.

I guess my question is, if I understand that right, why? I don't get the appeal of a constant rotating set tech. In the case of Gadgets, sure I can see it. But for grafts the idea of being forced to constantly switch out something like subdermal plating just seems weird. Similarly, something like a drone can take on a life of its own in the hands of players, it is sad to have to replace it with a new one basically every day, or in some cases multiple times a day. Not to mention the balance is much harder when you can just replace something with 30 minutes of downtime. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd like to see some option for recharging existing schematics rather than trashing them in favor of brand new ones.

The answer is the Battery talent. The whole sphere is (correct me if I'm wrong Mehangel) designed with the idea that you will have the Battery talent if you're taking it at all seriously. You don't switch out the grafts, you use batteries to re-use them. You don't use a gadget only a couple of times, you use batteries to extend their use. You don't use a drone only a couple of times, you use batteries to extend their use. The Battery talent is what ties the whole sphere together and affects the design of every charge based item.

[EldritchWeaver]

The answer is the Battery talent. The whole sphere is (correct me if I'm wrong Mehangel) designed with the idea that you will have the Battery talent if you're taking it at all seriously. You don't switch out the grafts, you use batteries to re-use them. You don't use a gadget only a couple of times, you use batteries to extend their use. You don't use a drone only a couple of times, you use batteries to extend their use. The Battery talent is what ties the whole sphere together and affects the design of every charge based item.

I'm not sure if I am a fan of the charges/battery system. The problem I have, compared to Alchemy, is that we have an asymmetry here. Actually two. The first is using the Alchemy sphere setup. Alchemy works because we have single use items anyway, having a low overhead to recreate them over and over again is not a big problem, since they self-destruct by design. Alchemy also replaces its counterpart not in the effects part, but in the trade-off - low cost for frequent need of recreation. Technology on the other hand is meant to be more sustainable. Requiring a specialist who has to rebuilt everything from scratch every few hours would fly in the real world, unless there is a significant benefit.

Which leads to the second asymmetry. Tech competes with magic items, which don't require maintenance. You pay once and they keep working. You don't need to track both duration of the charges as well if 24 hours are over by now. They are somewhat more comparable with spell effects, but those have ways to extend the duration. In particular, with CL12+ you can have 24+ hours running, if you build for that. I suppose batteries fulfill that, but then you have to spend a lot of time to build batteries, if you want to keep the party supplied. That cuts into other things much more than it does with magic.

[unseenmage]

Nice to see Robots get a little love.
IIRC the Craft Robot feat is the only place where most (all?) robots got craft prerequisites.
Also, that robots get beam weaponry as natural attacks can be a bit brutal.

Might want to add a 'non-robot' clause here, "You can create any robot construct from official bestiaries, as well as any construct...", to keep it from robot-ing robots that are already robotic. Like the drones.

Any plans to include AIs since they're the tech equivalent of Intrlligent Magic Items? If so I recommend not allowing for creatures minds to be turned into AI with the template. It isnt well balanced. At all.

I also recommend incorporating some utility with regards to timeworn items. Be it the rare ability to recondition them, if only for a short time or the ability to salvage parts from them in some way, destroying them in the process.

[khadgar567]

Nice to see Robots get a little love.
IIRC the Craft Robot feat is the only place where most (all?) robots got craft prerequisites.
Also, that robots get beam weaponry as natural attacks can be a bit brutal.

Might want to add a 'non-robot' clause here, "You can create any robot construct from official bestiaries, as well as any construct...", to keep it from robot-ing robots that are already robotic. Like the drones.

Any plans to include AIs since they're the tech equivalent of Intelligent Magic Items? If so I recommend not allowing for creatures minds to be turned into AI with the template. It isnt well balanced. At all.

I also recommend incorporating some utility with regards to timeworn items. Be it the rare ability to recondition them, if only for a short time or the ability to salvage parts from them in some way, destroying them in the process.
that's a bit too powerful in a current write-up. AI can turn drones to a really powerful weapon just simply creating a hive like that kinda allows the practitioner to solo most content and steal some light from everyone. The second question would be how we gonna handle AI and drones. as AI would give int score to drones thus allow them to qualify sphere talents and that's a bit of a headache I personally not want to get into until spheres of might expansion books. but looks like most of us want to use drones as a new type of companion. and I gotta agree most of us want gadgets and grafts to work in a different way with more impact than currently is. looks like tech sphere might need rewrite to work.

[Omnificer]

Maybe I'm just blind but are the DCs to craft gadgets and grafts specified anywhere? Drones have a crafting DC of 15 + 4 per trait but I don't see a similar statement for gadgets or grafts.

The Chemalyzer for instance lets you increase lets you increase the craft DC by 5 to increase the skill bonus by 2 but I can't tell what the original DC is supposed to be. Also this skill bonus doesn't seem to be consistent with the few other times talents provide skill bonuses, even in the same sphere. They generally seem to be 1/2 BAB or the relevant skill of the Sphere, such as the Scout talent Track the Scene or Tech's Electronic Lock Pick.

Cybernetic Arms and Legs - does it take two schematics to replace a pair of arms or legs and gain any benefit (unless you are actually using one as a 24 hour prosthetic)? If it does take two schematics, does it take 1 charge from each limb to gain the benefit?

Gravity Clip - it mentions that it halves or doubles an object's density and also changes the mass of weapons. I think that portion is mostly fluff but it definitely has some odd implications. Does the clip actually change mass and density separately from its gravity changes to an area or person? It's been a while since I took physics, but that would lead to some wacky applications of Gravity Clips in regards to things like buoyancy and inertia. Not that gravity and affecting it is very consistent or thought out in tabletop games to begin with.

Jet Boosters - to be clear they can go in any item slot? Such as head, neck, wrists or hands? Hands might work for an Iron Man build, but head might be a bit odd. I don't see a mechanical reason not to, it's just a funny image.

Laser - Maybe it's my view, but the table for the Laser talent seems to be cut off at the Special column.

Pneumatic Box - once a gaseous creature has failed its Reflex, can it break out of the box from within (besides reverting to a non-gaseous form) or is it stuck until the charges run out? I assume the obvious answer is that it just attacks the box from the inside and has to overcome the 8 hardness and 10 hp. Funnily enough, I think many gaseous creatures would have a ton of trouble meeting that threshold and the encounter would be ended by virtue of the party having several minutes to run away.
Whether a monster is gaseous or not is kind of tricky too, it seems like being gaseous can be anywhere from a Defensive ability, to a special ability, to a spell like ability, but I think it's valid enough as a "I'll know it when I see it."

[Mehangel]

Maybe I'm just blind but are the DCs to craft gadgets and grafts specified anywhere? Drones have a crafting DC of 15 + 4 per trait but I don't see a similar statement for gadgets or grafts.

The Chemalyzer for instance lets you increase lets you increase the craft DC by 5 to increase the skill bonus by 2 but I can't tell what the original DC is supposed to be. Also this skill bonus doesn't seem to be consistent with the few other times talents provide skill bonuses, even in the same sphere. They generally seem to be 1/2 BAB or the relevant skill of the Sphere, such as the Scout talent Track the Scene or Tech's Electronic Lock Pick.

The old version of the document used to have craft DC's for each individual gadget and graft, but it was decided that it was largely unnecessary.


Cybernetic Arms and Legs - does it take two schematics to replace a pair of arms or legs and gain any benefit (unless you are actually using one as a 24 hour prosthetic)? If it does take two schematics, does it take 1 charge from each limb to gain the benefit?

Yes, it takes two schematics to replace a pair of limbs. I clarified that it takes a single charge from either graft to activate.


Gravity Clip - it mentions that it halves or doubles an object's density and also changes the mass of weapons. I think that portion is mostly fluff but it definitely has some odd implications. Does the clip actually change mass and density separately from its gravity changes to an area or person? It's been a while since I took physics, but that would lead to some wacky applications of Gravity Clips in regards to things like buoyancy and inertia. Not that gravity and affecting it is very consistent or thought out in tabletop games to begin with.

Honesty, I wouldn't think on it too hard, and maybe refer to the sidebar for what mechanically happens.


Jet Boosters - to be clear they can go in any item slot? Such as head, neck, wrists or hands? Hands might work for an Iron Man build, but head might be a bit odd. I don't see a mechanical reason not to, it's just a funny image.

Yes, they can go in any slot.


Laser - Maybe it's my view, but the table for the Laser talent seems to be cut off at the Special column.

Should be fixed now.


Pneumatic Box - once a gaseous creature has failed its Reflex, can it break out of the box from within (besides reverting to a non-gaseous form) or is it stuck until the charges run out? I assume the obvious answer is that it just attacks the box from the inside and has to overcome the 8 hardness and 10 hp. Funnily enough, I think many gaseous creatures would have a ton of trouble meeting that threshold and the encounter would be ended by virtue of the party having several minutes to run away.
Whether a monster is gaseous or not is kind of tricky too, it seems like being gaseous can be anywhere from a Defensive ability, to a special ability, to a spell like ability, but I think it's valid enough as a "I'll know it when I see it."

Well it is a pretty niche gadget, so I am not particularly worried about abuse. It is possibly most useful against vampires who go gaseous, but even still, its duration is short enough that potential abuse is slightly curbed.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

[Scowling Dragon]

OK so I said I would put down my issue with grafts and I will but I feel like I need more fundamental design ducks in a line before we continue:

How compatible is this supposed to be with Technician?

A: I understand its supposed to complement, but not replace nor be that much worse.
A good example may be the Fey Adept and the "Surreal" Sets of Feats.
The Fey adept is clearly focused at shadow magic, and its "Create Reality" function clearly does most of the functions of the "Surreal" sets of feats.
However you might want to invest in it still, and it synchronizes wonderfully. It counts for pre-requisites, and it still increases your shadow pool.
And if your not a Fey adept its a great way to get in still, and creates its own mini shadow pool.

However here for the technician, the mix isn't that organic.
The technician functions significantly better, and balances itself out differently. The technician prevents other use but inducing penalties on others who are untrained (Unless you burn an improvement and an ally burns a feat).

Inventions progress quite differently from gadgets (From the tech Sphere) in the sense that a invention can be anything you can possibly make. One day it can be a railgun sniper and the next day it can be a Flamethrower. What limits what it can be is your insights. But every single insight opens it up in a really organic way. Have Chemical Insight? Your robots, your inventions, and your gadgets are all upgraded and can be anything. And while your gadgets don't continously scale (Both from the tech sphere and from the technician), your inventions do, both in additional bonuses, and additional extras to your inventions.

Even without a ton of additional insights, you can go from just a Suit of Armor with less penalties, to a suit of armor with that and super strength, and then a easy to wear suit of armor with super strength and jump jets.

But the Tech Sphere (Maybe name it Gadget Sphere? Seems like a good fit to me) is much much much more limited. If I spent a talent on "Missle Launcher" thats it I get the missle launcher. I can make multiple missle launchers with increased levels, and I can make a veriety of gadgets if I get a veriety of talents but I don't get to continously increase that rocket launcher.

What Im saying is that for the Rigger archetype, even loosing 1 invention is quite a downgrade. Because 1 Talent=/= 1 improvmenent. Because I can apply that improvement in multiple different ways day to day even. But a Tech Sphere talent is not only much more limited in scope but doesn't follow the same scaling.

B: The Technician is quite singificantly better at basic things. The Technician doesn't need to apply implants to give you mechanized strength, and making permanent versions of inventions/ constructs for the Technician is 1-2 insights away, while permanent Gadgets/ constructs are locked away behind legendary.

C: Lots of redundancy and overlapping. I mentioned how nicely the Fey Adept works, and how the "Surreal" line of feats slip in like a glove. But your left tracking so much extra stuff for the Technician, and for the sphere in general. Your making a whole bunch of small gadgets, and then each gadget is left with its own individual pool of charges each of which consumes it at a different rate.

What level of integration do you want with pre-existing tech rules?/ Other graft rules
Currently there are none. You may want to explain how this interacts with the technology sphere (Do grafts take up the same space as implants, can you recharge advanced tech with a battery?)

Remember, the Gears of power supplement also uses grafts (Its still in production and unless it ends up being cut completly thats still something to keep in mind). So this isn't just a non-SOP integration issue.

OK so onto the point I promised:
How I would do grafts
I understand that design wise what you where aiming for with grafts where simple attachements. Just buffs or magic potions essentially.
But graft already exists in the D&D lexicon as a permanent upgrade. It exists from way back when from the 3.5 Undead Book (Possibly even earlier), and as said before even the gears of power supplement is making grafts as parts you attach to yourself.

I would just remove any and all medical connotations and just make them a whole lot simpler. Just wearable gadgets, and don't require any special checks or nothing to wear or remove them. Because so much of the stuff doesn't even need to be grafts really. Because unless grafts are making you better, being forced to wear something is a downgrade.

I would never graft a Chainsaw onto myself when I could just: Grab one. So if something is permanently attached to me and requires outside help to detach or attack thats a downgrade not a upgrade.
Just make all the current grafts, gadgets (They can all be refluffed not to be grafts). Instead of occupying body slots they occupy item slots like normal.

Create a separate "make Technograft" feat that allows you to spend money to make replacement limbs.
And definetly do so with an option to create permanent gadgets and permanent drones.

More expensive (Or larger) replacement limbs can store more gadgets in them, maybe even have extra charges inside automatically, and running out of charges for the gadget just depowers the gadget and not the whole limb. Have THESE occupy a body slot. That way thats a solid advantage of being able to benefit from a wearable gadget while at the same time being able benefit from just an item.

If necacary make a specific archetype that focuses on being a cyborg warrior and benefits more from Techno grafts. Maybe even have them be able to make theirs for free up to a certain point (Sort of like how the Gunslinger starts out with their own cheapo gun, or how the classic Artificer class has a pool of money to dip into when making stuff).

Edit: I would restructure the sphere to function completly differently and if interested Il write that up as well.
edit: You know Il just write this up now during my break and you can say you don't want it later.

Pools of Charges:
Instead of a pool of pools, just have 1 pool of charges you can allocate to your gadgets at the beggining of the maintenance.
So instead of 2 gadgets with 4 charges each, just give me a pool of 8 charges and allow me to allocate them however I want (1-8 charge gadget, 2-4 charge gadgets or 8 1 charge gadgets).
If you really want to then limit the number of gadgets up at one time, you can then institude a maximum number of gadgets at once.
Now that its a singular pool, you make recharging it or interacting with it much easier (Like batteries adding to the pool, or Conscript specs just adding to the pool some singular amount directly instead of to each invention).
Drones as Animals
Hard limiting drones by requiring a move action every time seems like a very hard limit. How about instead making them as dumb as animals (Or even dumber) and each one having a limited number of commands (Tricks), this uses a pre-existing system making it easier to manage. You already have this very close to how it already is, just specify it further.
You would only need to use a move action to change commands for instance.
And you could invest talents (Or charges) to make the drones smarter or more independant, or large sections of new commands and options.
I would still say at least decouple the Pathfinder versions of the drones from the Starfinder versions to allow for much more creative mixing and matching of drone types.
Have drones take a hour or so to make, or have them last longer (Like the whole day), but the charges invested in them are gone for the whole day. That way loosing a drone is a much harsher loss then that of a gadget discouraging disposable drones.

[Mehangel]

With all the discussions on what people would like to see changed regarding the sphere, I have drafted up potential changes here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dg09mFwYTRtYQk9b5k5eE0M81dfci8e8YWJ2QZS9H-k/edit). Please tell me what you like/dislike about the potential changes, if I missed the mark, or how I could make it better.

[Minion #6]

Thoughts on potential changes

Some of these are actual critiques, others are just requests for clarification

General

Charges rework: I like the note on the flavour, first things first - although it's minor, it's always nice to see the odd remind that things can be refluffed if the GM is okay with that. Higher base charges is great, makes Battery less of a talent tax.

Grafts: Mechanically I like it fine, although the choice of saying "implantation value" seems a bit off to me. Just a wording thing, maybe "implantation capacity" would be slightly better? Minor issue. The constitution and especially the intelligence limits are interesting choices that I like the flavour of, but having your limit be determined by the lower of either? Makes certain stat lines impossible to have more than 1 graft. Might be good, might be bad, but it's definitely limiting. EDIT: Is "implantation value" from the Technology Guide? If so, my question on that is pushed to them, not you.

Specific

Anatomical structure: How long does a charge activate these for? A minute? An hour? A day? For all time?

Battery: Probably my biggest mechanical issue with the original sphere. Moving it from a talent tax to a nice-but-not-mandatory QoL talent is a good move.

Chemalyzer: Just like the old version. Is this an NPC option? Because hoo boy, outside of insanely specific campaigns as a PC I would never take this. If it added a much larger bonus (we're talking in increments of +5) then maybe, but even then it's still quite niche.

Cybernetic limbs: Glad that they're much clearer that yes, they do function as limbs uncharged.

Electronic Lockpick: See Chemalyzer above, just super niche and even in it's niche doesn't do much.

Emergency Supplies: Shelter is a good reason to take the Battery talent, saves you charges for your other abilities through the day in a dedicated Tech Sphere specialist. However, if you're just dipping it's even better value, provided you can get an 8 hour duration out of it - which a +3 practitioner modifier and 5 ranks will get you.

Energy Field: Is there a reason this is "field" rather than "shield"? Seems more like a "shield" to me.

Firefighting equipment: Any reason for a set, rather than scaling, DC on the damage against fire creatures?

Laser: Hard to justify taking this one. Since each charge is a shot, it's hard to use it with abilities like the Barrage Sphere. Either shots-per-charge needs to be increased, or some sort of rounds-active-per-charge type thing needs to happen.

Particle weapon: All weapons are particle weapons, as they're all made of particles. Maybe "Vibroweapon" is more appropriate, and also communicates the "can be activated to do special stuff" nature of it's charge ability.

Taser: 1 charge for 1d8 per level electric damage? Sounds good. Scaling isn't inappropriate, as "nonlethal electricity" is probably weaker than fire damage, and searing blast does the same for a spell point. Fort save for sickened and staggered is... it sounds like a lot, but it might not be. I'd have to play around with just sickened/just staggered as well to really tell.

Power Core: To have this at 1st level, do you have to have 20 CON, 20 INT on top of your rank in Craft? And even then, that fills up your maximum implant capacity for the level.

[Mehangel]

Charges rework: I like the note on the flavour, first things first - although it's minor, it's always nice to see the odd remind that things can be refluffed if the GM is okay with that. Higher base charges is great, makes Battery less of a talent tax.

Noted.


Grafts: Mechanically I like it fine, although the choice of saying "implantation value" seems a bit off to me. Just a wording thing, maybe "implantation capacity" would be slightly better? Minor issue. The constitution and especially the intelligence limits are interesting choices that I like the flavour of, but having your limit be determined by the lower of either? Makes certain stat lines impossible to have more than 1 graft. Might be good, might be bad, but it's definitely limiting. EDIT: Is "implantation value" from the Technology Guide? If so, my question on that is pushed to them, not you.

Most of this is verbiage taken straight from paizo's Technology Guide.


Anatomical structure: How long does a charge activate these for? A minute? An hour? A day? For all time?

As long as it is activated.


Battery: Probably my biggest mechanical issue with the original sphere. Moving it from a talent tax to a nice-but-not-mandatory QoL talent is a good move.

Noted


Chemalyzer: Just like the old version. Is this an NPC option? Because hoo boy, outside of insanely specific campaigns as a PC I would never take this. If it added a much larger bonus (we're talking in increments of +5) then maybe, but even then it's still quite niche.

I will see about making this and Electronic Lockpick more appealing.


Cybernetic limbs: Glad that they're much clearer that yes, they do function as limbs uncharged.

Good to hear.


Emergency Supplies: Shelter is a good reason to take the Battery talent, saves you charges for your other abilities through the day in a dedicated Tech Sphere specialist. However, if you're just dipping it's even better value, provided you can get an 8 hour duration out of it - which a +3 practitioner modifier and 5 ranks will get you.

Noted


Energy Field: Is there a reason this is "field" rather than "shield"? Seems more like a "shield" to me.

I thought that if I used the word "shield" people may confuse it with spells like 'fire shield' that protects against fire, when this only protects against physical attacks


Firefighting equipment: Any reason for a set, rather than scaling, DC on the damage against fire creatures?

I thought that as a niche item, it could use a boost.


Laser: Hard to justify taking this one. Since each charge is a shot, it's hard to use it with abilities like the Barrage Sphere. Either shots-per-charge needs to be increased, or some sort of rounds-active-per-charge type thing needs to happen.

See, I am having conflicting feedback. You say it is weak because charges, another says powerful because ranged touch + barrage. I am going to have get more feedback on this.


Particle weapon: All weapons are particle weapons, as they're all made of particles. Maybe "Vibroweapon" is more appropriate, and also communicates the "can be activated to do special stuff" nature of it's charge ability.

I will take it under consideration.


Taser: 1 charge for 1d8 per level electric damage? Sounds good. Scaling isn't inappropriate, as "nonlethal electricity" is probably weaker than fire damage, and searing blast does the same for a spell point. Fort save for sickened and staggered is... it sounds like a lot, but it might not be. I'd have to play around with just sickened/just staggered as well to really tell.

This is another talent that had alot of discussion, which eventually evolved the talent as you see now.


Power Core: To have this at 1st level, do you have to have 20 CON, 20 INT on top of your rank in Craft? And even then, that fills up your maximum implant capacity for the level.

To have this at 1st level, all you need is minimum of 6 Constitution and 6 Intelligence. With max Craft (mech) ranks at 20th level with this talent you will have effectively +14 Con and Int for the purpose of how many cybertech/grafts you can have implanted.

[Minion #6]

To have this at 1st level, all you need is minimum of 6 Strength and 6 Intelligence. With max Craft (mech) ranks at 20th level with this talent you will have effectively +14 Str and Int for the purpose of how many cybertech/grafts you can have implanted.

So it was a misread on my part, good to know.

[Nyaa]

Do grafts still count against gadget limit? As oldest gadget is deactivated first when creating new ones, will grafts eventually fall apart when creator decides he wants new radio or toaster?

[Quarian Rex]

Some thoughts on things that stuck out to me on the proposed rework...

Cybernetic Armorist Archetype - I get what you're trying to do here but in its current state it is just bad.

Blended Training - Forcing an SoP class to split their unmodified tallent progression between SoP and SoM is pure cancer. It is always a functional nerf as neither aspect has enough talents to really do much and is especially crippling on a Low-Caster.

Cybernetics - This, with the proposed changes to charges, is an absolutely useless talent for Tech user. The talent lets the user share charges between their grafts, which are drawn from the character, so the character should just spend charges from his primary pool instead of assigning them, right? So what is the point of this again? And for this 'ability' they give up their Bound Weapon, the thing that defines the entire class. You've taken away the entire point of the class and replaced it with nothing. This is absolutely horrible.

Cell Recharge - You are taking a process that used to require 15 mins (rebuilding a Gadget/Battery to regain charges) into something that requires a daily resource (Spell Points) to restore an incredibly pitiful charge amount. And for this scrap of an option you took away Summon Equipment, the Armorist's other signature ability. I have no idea how you could think that this is a fair trade on any level.

The remaining abilities don't really matter as they're either a progression of a previous ability or the capstone (all capstones are irrelevant). the concept of an Armorist archetype for the Tech sphere is worth consideration but this version does nothing but remove key abilities and replace them with features that are virtually worthless. This needs a rethink from the ground up.


Charges rework - This is an absolute mistake on every level. Having the 'power' of the items be part of the items themselves, and not the 'caster', was a defining element of the Tech Sphere, providing an analogue to actual technology as well as an interesting mechanical variant. It could be reworked/recharged during moments of downtime throughout the day and so could be reliably used by the maker or others with fair reliability (you know, like technology). Not only have you drastically reduced the number of charges available [each schematic used to provide either 1 charge per 4 ranks (for Gadgets), 1 per 2 (for each Drone), or 1 per each rank (for Grafts), multiplied by the number of your schematics (1/2 your ranks +1 per talent spent on the Tech Sphere), any of which can be recharged in 15 mins., vs. charges equal to ranks + your practitioner ability score solely as a per day resource, that have to be pre-assigned to individual gadgets].

This is an overall nerf and a loss of mechanical distinctiveness for the Sphere as a whole.

Grafts - Altering Grafts to be more inline with Tech Manual cybernetics is another step backwards. While the concept of cybernetics eating your soul (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CyberneticsEatYourSoul) is not without merit, grafts have now been changed to be prosthetics/braces not actual implants, and the idea that an arm/leg/back/whatever brace would cause mental/physical breakdown is something that just doesn't work, especially when the graft already has to be maintained through an active schematic. While something like this might work with permanent Grafts, as part of the base ability it just doesn't work.

Activation of Schematics - Saying that a Gadget has to be unattended, it's user has to be willing, or (in the case of Drones and such) it cannot be engaged in hostile activity with the potential activator, is a must. Giving an opponent the ability to just turn off any Tech you are using with a move action (or vice-versa) is a gamebreaking exploit that needs to be removed before it makes the entire Sphere useless in any area of confrontation.

Anatomical Structure - I like it. Just needs a note saying whether the extra arms count for additional off-hand attacks, and if not what can they be used for during combat? Clarification is needed. I like the idea of additional arms providing additional off-hand attacks, but all attacks suffering a penalty to hit equal to the number of additional arms.

Battery - Again, another step backwards. Removing charges from actual Gadgets (a genuine mistake) and reducing them to a per/day caster pool makes Battery more important, not less. Nerfing the number of charges provided by the Battery just makes the problem even worse. Also...


Batteries may not be attached to other batteries.

... why? Batteries stack, that is what they do. If a player is so paranoid about the endurance of a given Gadget that he wants to spend multiple schematics on stacking batteries then that is a choice, not a problem. Avoid unnecessary restrictions. This is one.

This needs to go back to the previous version, but allow the creation of multiple Batteries by splitting the available charge as the creator wishes, all using the same schematic. Battery reliance in the Sphere is not a bad thing, it is a mechanically distinct option. Expanding the options that Battery has is a good thing.

Chemalyzer - The more niche the effect, the greater the bonus should be. This has been brought up many times but still it adds a shred of Jack to a sliver of Squat. Have it provide a +10+ranks in Craft (Mechanical) bonus applicable to magic potions, et al, have it provide Scent with a 60' range, something. As it is, it's a waste of print space.

Commset - Removing charge from the items themselves is even more taxing on a talent like this. When you only gain a single charge per additional level how can you justify investment in something that will be such a massive charge drain (1 charge per person per hour). Besides that, the duration needs to be adjusted as well. Having a charge last an hour is fine, so long as that hour can be split up. Having the hour be used up in one minute increments among all connected Commsets whenever someone transmits would make this actually useful, instead of trying to guess the single hour in a day where longer range communication might be useful.

Cybernetic Limbs - These need to be crafted 2 per schematic (like Commsets). Considering the actual buffs granted has been halved to be useful on a per limb basis (good call btw) and the talent is specifically designed for use with multiple limbs, this can't be allowed to be a schematic sink. Two limbs (in whatever combination on whichever recipients) goes a long way to fixing that (and brings it in line with Anatomical Structure).

Drone - You need to specify that a single schematic can make drones up to your HD limit. Total HD is the limiting factor here, it shouldn't needlessly eat up extra schematics for nothing.

Electronic Lock Pick - See Chemalyzer above. Second verse, same as the first. This needs to apply to all Disable Device checks, doubled when used on technological devices. Smaller the niche, the bigger the bonus.

Emergency Supplies (Shelter) - As was already mentioned on the main doc, having the Shelter only last an hour per charge before it collapses is horribly bad. Right now the Raft actually makes a better shelter than the Shelter (can be flipped upside down as a makeshift tent for however long is needed). You need to split the Shelter's capabilities into unpowered and powered. Unpowered would be things like being in existence, providing basic shelter against the elements, the pneumatic ground anchors, and perhaps the alchemical lighting. Powered things would be air filtration, temperature regulation, the energy reisitance for the Shelter and those inside, and think about adding a self-repair effect of 1 Hp/ min or so. You need to be able to sleep in this thing without having to invest an undue number of charges in all but the most extreme of situations.

Evac Pack - This has a weird level of niche potential but it seems half done. I think that it needs more triggering conditions. Things like if the wearer is reduced to below 0 Hp, is under a Hold effect, has a physical/mental attribute reduced to 0, is dead (body recovery), is unconscious (would need to deactivate the Gadget before you go to sleep), is stunned, etc. Allow 1 triggering condition + 1 per 2 ranks in Craft (Mechanical). Allow the wearer to deactivate the chassis as a swift action (in case they snap out of it before they get to the extraction point). Specify that the extraction point can be altered by reactivating the Gadget at any time (good for having fallback points during a dungeon crawl instead of having to chase an exoskeleton all the way back to town as a party member bleeds out). Specify that the movement on the first round is a Withdraw action (currently it is not).

Perhaps add some Drone synergy. If the creator has the Drone package and devotes 1 HD worth of Drone to the Evac Pack then when the pack activates it can deploy additional limbs and use the movement abilities of a Hover Drone or Stealth Drone chassis. Add an additional option when the creator has 5 ranks in Craft (Mechanical) that the wearer can do a manual override, by spending a full-round action every round, that lets them direct the Evac Pack wherever they want (taking double move withdraw actions to the location of the wearers choosing) and using 1 charge per min as per norm. This would be of most use with the Drone synergy (for alternate movement modes) but could also be useful for people with limited movement due to race or heavy armor, etc.

Overall, this would provide alternate defenses to various status ailments (and avoid possible TPKs), while adding out of combat utility (the movement options), making the talent a more attractive pick overall.

Laser - Not sure how I feel about removing the Technician Invention/Drone Laser but...


See, I am having conflicting feedback. You say it is weak because charges, another says powerful because ranged touch + barrage. I am going to have get more feedback on this.

The feedback you've been getting on the thread and the doc seems to be consistently saying that 2d6 damage on a single target is not worth a charge and is frankly unplayable at that expense. Ranged touch + Barrage = standard firearms. Barrage is already balanced around that. Also, dealing fire damage, the most resisted damage type in the game, is a valid balance point (along with costing an actual talent) to the advantages of the weapon. This is like giving a Gunfighter a gun but only letting him use a few bullets a day. You are providing an option and making it useless at the same time. You need to provide at least 10 shots per charge to make this close to usable. I am seriously shocked that there is any resistance to this.

Machine Gun - Seems like you are missing a charge cost here. Also note that this is 1d8 damage per 2 ranks to an AoE line out to Medium range. Even at level 1 this is potentially more damaging (total damage on multiple targets) than Laser and greatly outpaces it from 4th level onwards. Something that costs a charge should look closer to this.

Medic Pack - I see what you are doing here but it is all over the place in ways that no one is happy with. Conditional healing that uses a characters action economy but can only be targeted on someone who is abnormally heavily wounded is a combination that makes this virtually unplayable. It's a finicky mix that only promotes characters that engage in self harm to meet an arbitrarily low threshold to get some potential benefit from the Gadget. How to fix it? Get rid of the Hp thresholds. It muddies the waters, makes the device supremely unreliable, and it doesn't seem to be working for anyone. Replace them with minimum total bonus to Heal checks that the user has, not the creator.

Make the capability (not necessarily the level) of the user determine the breadth of application, while the skill of the creator dictates the power of that effect (level-gated by the creators ranks). That way, finding a capable healer is as important as the skill of the creator, and a dedicated healer (someone who has Skill Focus, high Wis, complimentary class features, etc.) will benefit more than someone who just put in max ranks. Make the five thresholds available when the user has a total bonus of +1/4/8/12/16, something like that.

This would solve a lot of problems, making the device reliable (always doing what is expected in a given users hands), and emphasizing that a tool needs skill to use (something very appropriate for a technology based Sphere).

Missile Cannon - I have no problem with techno-magic missile, it just needs better scaling and to stop being a graft. Yes, I know, Gundam/Macross is cool but it makes no sense to restrict a missile launcher to a graft, and makes a lot of sense to add a note under the Graft Package that you can install otherwise normal Gadgets as Grafts. Macross missile spam should be an option, just not the only one. Also, at 10 ranks the damage should change to 1 + 1 per 2 ranks in Craft (mechanical) to keep it competitive.

Particle Weapon - This really needs to just be a minor template that is applied to the weapon of the users choice. Allow force whips, laser pikes, lightsaber tonfas, whatever. Let the creator craft a particle version of any weapon so that a weapon specialist team mate of any type can benefit from a particle weapon made for them, instead of having to pre-emptively devote themselves to the shiny laser weapon.

Self Destructive Schematic - This has a high cost (you need to sacrifice a useful device and it cost you a talent to do so) and I think that it needs just a bit more to make it worthwhile. Something like anyone holding/wearing the Gadget when it explodes is denied their save. Considering the added damage would only be applicable in niche cases (someone trying to use your creations against you, people you have Grafted, etc.), and that those niche cases would be sooo satisfying, I think that this would be completely justified.

Taser - Mirrors the balance of the Technicians Taser but from another direction. Mechanically distinct and interesting.

Autonomous Drone - This seems to be lacking the ability to explicitly create permanent Drones. That should probably be fixed.

Power-Core - As mentioned under the Armorist archetype, this is currently useless for the creator and has only marginal use for anyone else under the proposed Charge changes. The old version (on the original doc) is much more interesting, both as a personal augmentation and as an option for others. The suggestion I would make for the old version is to allow it to be selected multiple times, with each selection allowing the creator to maintain an additional number of Power-Cores equal to the total number of times that Power-Core has been selected (so 1 on the first selection, 3 on the second, 6 on the third, etc.). This is an advanced talent and the only real way to maintain the effectiveness of someones Grafts when they are away from you. A non-linear advancement on the breadth of how your Grafts are applied (without really advancing their potency in any way) is very appropriate for the Tech Sphere.

Also, try changing to a recharge mechanic instead of a refresh mechanic. What I mean is to have the Power-Core recharge Charges at a rate of half the users Con bonus (min. 1) per hour when it is shut down. The user has to make a decision between being fully powered at all times and being caught in a combat with their power plant shut down. Also, recharge scaling is covered allowing investment in Con to counter higher Charge pools at upper levels without things getting nuts. Much better than everything just 'magically' going from 0-100 at the crack of dawn. Retain mechanical distinctiveness where you can.

Drone Upgrade
Mobile Drone
Reckless Drone
Recon Drone
Shield Drone - I really like what you've done with these. Meaningful expansions to functionality are always appreciated. I may have more thoughts on it later but for now, tis good.

Repairable Drone - I like the idea but this needs a little more. A character can fully repair/replace a Drone in 15-30 mins so this feat needs more to be even vaguely relevant let alone be worth a feat. How about (in addition to the current ability) letting the character make a DC 10 Craft (Mechanical) check as a full round action to restore a number of Hp to the Drone equal to the amount he beat the DC by? Something like that. Faster than rebuilding and provides the option for combat healing if absolutely necessary.

Drones - Overall I like them. They don't have to be too fancy, and they aren't, but you do have some good options. One thing that I would like to see is Drones getting access to some SoM talents. Even just 1 per 5 ranks in Craft (Mechanical) (minimum of 0) would be fine. The Combat Chassis already has access to one Equipment sphere (discipline) talent and it would be great if it could eventually wear armor/barding and use a weapon at the same time. In general it would just add a great layer of customization to the Drones without things stacking in a crazy way.

[Mehangel]

Okay, so I have been working with Scowling Dragon to address some of your concerns, and so without further ado, here is the next version of the rework (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hrv9qS5jsQxi7fmsk2N98zqeJ7Nypti5wRHSWmiTsx4/edit). Later, I will be modifying the main Tech sphere playtest document based upon feedback found on the two recent rework documents.

@Quarian Rex Your latest post has not fallen on deaf ears, I will see about incorporating some of your suggestions.

[Mehangel]

And now we have rework v3 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bS6cWgAK2jEBdDCi1h13XKplKdC8G1hgm9LtmnSOMYE/edit?usp=sharing) (which is more like rework 2.5). Shortly hereafter, I will begin working on compiling the rework into the playtest document. I just want to make sure that the content is well received.

[BioCharge]

First off: wow! I'm currently working on a dieselpunk-edsque setting and this sphere is perfect (with a little refluff, of course)! I absolutely adore Spheres of Might and this is a most welcome addition.

Secondly, this may be answered in Pathfinder's general rules, but this especially brought it up for me: If a weapon deals both a physical type and energy type of damage (say, a sword with the Alt Ammo gadget and Alternate Element Pack (mod) to deal both Slashing and Fire), is its damage reduced by damage reduction? By Energy Resistance? Both? Neither?

I'm having trouble with it since the elemental and physical damage is separately expressed, unlike say a +1 Flaming Longsword, so I'm not sure how those interactions would result.
Thanks for the help and I'm sorry if this isn't within your pureview!

[Scowling Dragon]

I'm having trouble with it since the elemental and physical damage is separately expressed, unlike say a +1 Flaming Longsword, so I'm not sure how those interactions would result.
Thanks for the help and I'm sorry if this isn't within your pureview!

As the guy who designed that thing:

Im not super sure, everybody treats it kinda differently (Its the same way people debate Fire/Elec damage. Does fire resistance reduce all the damage? Or does it bypass all the damage?)

Id say thats up to you. In my book, having multiple types of damage should be an advantage so should could for whichever is more favorable....

Hmm might be worth a specifying statblock from me.

[Quarian Rex]

As the guy who designed that thing:

Im not super sure, everybody treats it kinda differently (Its the same way people debate Fire/Elec damage. Does fire resistance reduce all the damage? Or does it bypass all the damage?)

Id say thats up to you. In my book, having multiple types of damage should be an advantage so should could for whichever is more favorable....

Hmm might be worth a specifying statblock from me.

No one debates Fire/Elec damage because it doesn't exist in the game, and for good reason. There is damage that is half Fire and half Electricity but the multi-damage types are strictly physical, and again, for good reason. You are dealing with apples and oranges here. Physical DR provides resistance to all physical damage (and no defense against energy damage) but is penetrated by something specific (blunt/magic/evil/etc.) and all damage from a penetrating attack gets through regardless of any other associated damage types. Energy damage is blocked by Energy Resistance which protects against a single energy type, without any common means to penetrate it, but doing absolutely nothing against any other ebergy type or against physical damage.

What you have done is mix up the two paradigms of damage reduction. Why have you done this? Out of ignorance (weren't sure of the mechanics and blurred the resistance types) or out of a desire to introduce a paradigm shifting change to base mechanics? The first is an easy fix, just replace references to 'Fire/Elec' with 'half Fire and half Electricity' and just keep in mind that splitting damage like this is generally a nerf overall. If you actually want to go with the second path then you have a world of (mechanically) unnatural interactions to try to balance around. Think hard on this.

[Mehangel]

I have combined and incorporated the last three reworks into a new updated version of the Tech sphere playtest (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eoa_P4pr4jWX4Oyc5Q6pWGel2KRzz2sARKKTo6ZLi3U/edit?usp=sharing). Enjoy.

@Quarian Rex: You brought up some very valid points regarding the mixing of physical and energy damage types. I will be looking into solutions for this.

[Omnificer]

Q) I assume the answer is no but is there any limit to the number of cartridges a mod can support?

Q) Am I also right in assuming the Laser Pack cartridge is suitable for melee weapons?


Here are a few examples, of what seems valid to me:

Lightsaber: Normal sword with Alt Ammo Mode gadget or a Particle Weapon , or (terrifyingly) a Chainsaw. Any of these with all the mods: Alternate Element Pack, the Laser Pack, and Protonic Energy Pack.

Leading to a laser sword, laser quarterstaff to go Darth Maul on people, or laser chainsaw which sounds like a weapon that should be in Warhammer 40k. All of these being able to deal fire damage to anything within line of sight (within melee range), including non-invisible ghosts.

Laser Missiles: Missile Launcher with the laser pack, allowing for lasers that can turn corners. Which along with the laser chainsaw sounds like immense fun.


I want to note that I did like the Magic Missile Launchers from before, but the current Missile Launchers are unique and interesting. I definitely envision a combo involving placing a Tracker Chip onto someone you don't want getting away and then ruining their day with a missile.

Edit: I think there's a lot of future potential for Mods, possibly if a Tech Handbook arrives in the far future. The Alt Ammo Mode gadget is great for sharing the fun, though I think the name implies it's for ranged weapons despite the text being very clear on it working for any weapon. I'm very tickled by all of the various laser weapons that I believe are possible. From Chewbacca style crossbows to slings throwing laser rocks and the deadly Gnome Battle Laser Ladder. I am assuming that ammunition of any kind benefits from the Alternate Element Pack.

[Scowling Dragon]

If you actually want to go with the second path then you have a world of (mechanically) unnatural interactions to try to balance around. Think hard on this.

Im going with option number 2. I don't think damage types have ever been that well designed into the core of the game that making a work around for this will be that game bendingly crazy.

I did it because its fun and I indeed get some things mixed up in my mind.


Q) I assume the answer is no but is there any limit to the number of cartridges a mod can support?

There is no limit, but I did not intend for this to allow stacking (As in one weapon functions of every type)


Q) Am I also right in assuming the Laser Pack cartridge is suitable for melee weapons?
Yes. That was by design.

Laser punches. where fundementally in my mind when I made this.

And works with any ammo yes.

[BioCharge]

Something actually occurred to me yesterday in a solution to my own question earlier. The laser sword technological item states that it deals half and half each of fire and electricity. Furthermore, it states that it ignores all resistance, but not immunity.

What if we added a clause for the items that deal mix damage types to state that they also ignore such resistances. Perhaps for physical damage it can ignore any damage-based DR, though not material or alignment-based DR? I dunno, just spitballing.

[Danielxxi]

I like the changes in the last update, but I have some questions:

1) In a sidebar, in the section “activation of Schematics”, it says “Gadgets are activated as a move action”, but I could not find the action to activate a drone. What action is activating a drone?

2) what action to deactivate gadgets or drones?

3) When a done is activate, does it stay activated until deactivate or run out of charges (used by abilities)? Does it consume any charge only for being active? I believe not, but want to be sure.

4) In signals says “When a signal would be blocked by 1 ft of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 ft of wood or dirt, the remaining signal distance is halved (rounded down to the nearest 5 ft.”.
Hence for example if a signal has a range of 50 ft and a wall of 1 ft of stone is at 10 ft, the real range is 10ft + 20 ft (count as 40 since it pass a wall: 20ft x2) = 30ft. What happens if there is a second wall at 20 ft, the range is halved again, hence it is 10 feat + 10 ft (count as 20 since it pass a wall: 10ft x2) + 5 ft (count as 20 since it pass 2 walls 5ft x4 (or x3))= 25ft? What happens if the wall is 2 ft of stone, it halves the range only once? is it rigth to asume that each square conuse 5 ft + 5 ft per 1 ft of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 ft of wood or dirt blocking the signal?

5) In augmentation section it says: “Augments are clunky and stand out instantly inducing a penalty of 10 + ranks in craft (mechanical) to Disguise checks to hide the augment.”
why ranks in craft (mechanical) increase the penalty? I the character is a better crafter his gadgets should be easy to hide, or at least not harder. maybe 10 + 2 per gadget?

6) When I read the drone section I think that it is very useful and thematically related to the rogue. I believe that it would be nice to have a rogue talents that gives feats that has drone as requisite.

[Scowling Dragon]

5) In augmentation section it says: “Augments are clunky and stand out instantly inducing a penalty of 10 + ranks in craft (mechanical) to Disguise checks to hide the augment.”
why ranks in craft (mechanical) increase the penalty? I the character is a better crafter his gadgets should be easy to hide, or at least not harder. maybe 10 + 2 per gadget?


Nope. Firstly because its not that bad a penalty to most situations. Not being able to hide augements really isn't that bad. Second of all because getting any kind of bonuses to disguise is rediculously easy.

And because your augments get more clumpier, and harded to hide as you make more and more advanced versions of them. If you want to make them less conspicous there are talents for that.

[Danielxxi]

Thanks for answering so fast.


Nope. Firstly because its not that bad a penalty to most situations. Not being able to hide augements really isn't that bad.

I agree but this is not a reason to make it harder.



Second of all because getting any kind of bonuses to disguise is rediculously easy.

First at level 20 a +30 penalty to disguise is a bit excessive, in most games an auto fail.

For example a 16 ft tall male troll disguised as a 2 ft female hafling has a penalty of +24, less than a character trying to hide a gadget!.

But this is not the main problem, the real problem is that it is harder for a 20 level character than for a level 1 character (+10 vs +30)! the penalties could not be harder for characters with more ranks or more level, they become harder because those character try to do complex things, for example try to hide more gadgets.

I know that it is important that skill remain hard at high level, but it should not be harder to do the same for a character with more rank, and being an opposed skill solve in part the problem.



And because your augments get more clumpier, and harded to hide as you make more and more advanced versions of them.

This could be a good argument if all the gadgets improves with the ranks in craft, but some only improves one at some rank levels (i..e at rank 5, rank 10, …) and other do no improve at all.
Maybe 10+ the minimum number of rank needed to achieve the actual effect, for example, Auto Injector improves at rank 1, 10, and 20, hence depending on the version penalty is of 11, 20 or 30. But Internal Tool never improves, hence the penalty is always 11.




If you want to make them less conspicous there are talents for that.

I saw the talents, and I do not have problem with a tax talent to allow you to hide your gadgets. But again my problems with the increasing penalty only for being better doing the same. I prefer a flat +30 penalty than this.

Asume a level 20 party, 2 characters with Internal Tool, one with 5 ranks in craft and other with 20 ranks. why should it be harder for the second one?

[Mehangel]

1) In a sidebar, in the section “activation of Schematics”, it says “Gadgets are activated as a move action”, but I could not find the action to activate a drone. What action is activating a drone?

If you notice, drones in the latest update possess the gadget tag/descriptor, as such, the are activated like gadgets.


2) what action to deactivate gadgets or drones?

It should be the same action as activation (a move action).


3) When a done is activate, does it stay activated until deactivate or run out of charges (used by abilities)? Does it consume any charge only for being active? I believe not, but want to be sure.

Unless manually deactivated, a drone like other gadgets remain active until it runs out of charges. The drone does not consume charges for merely being active (unless otherwise noted).


4) In signals says “When a signal would be blocked by 1 ft of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 ft of wood or dirt, the remaining signal distance is halved (rounded down to the nearest 5 ft.”.
Hence for example if a signal has a range of 50 ft and a wall of 1 ft of stone is at 10 ft, the real range is 10ft + 20 ft (count as 40 since it pass a wall: 20ft x2) = 30ft. What happens if there is a second wall at 20 ft, the range is halved again, hence it is 10 feat + 10 ft (count as 20 since it pass a wall: 10ft x2) + 5 ft (count as 20 since it pass 2 walls 5ft x4 (or x3))= 25ft? What happens if the wall is 2 ft of stone, it halves the range only once? is it rigth to asume that each square conuse 5 ft + 5 ft per 1 ft of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 ft of wood or dirt blocking the signal?

Scenario 1: (single stone wall) that is correct.
Scenario 2: (2 stone walls 10 ft apart) the first wall would reduce the remaining signal (40 ft) in half (20 ft), the second wall would reduce the remaining signal (10 ft) in half (5 ft). In total, the signal which started at a range of 50 feet would only travel 25 ft.
Scenario 3: (single stone wall that is twice as thick) in this scenario, it would have the same result as if you had two adjacent 1-ft thick stone walls, meaning that assuming the 2-ft thick wall was 10 ft away, the remaining signal range (40 ft) would be reduced by half twice (20 -> 10 ft). In total, the signal would travel only 20 ft.

I apologize, but I don't understand your last question.


5) In augmentation section it says: “Augments are clunky and stand out instantly inducing a penalty of 10 + ranks in craft (mechanical) to Disguise checks to hide the augment.”
why ranks in craft (mechanical) increase the penalty? I the character is a better crafter his gadgets should be easy to hide, or at least not harder. maybe 10 + 2 per gadget?

Scowling Dragon has already answered this question, however I think it does make sense to have it scale not by skill ranks but by number of augments.


6) When I read the drone section I think that it is very useful and thematically related to the rogue. I believe that it would be nice to have a rogue talents that gives feats that has drone as requisite.

Noted.

[Storyteller_Arc]

Okay, I haven't fully read through the new Sphere, so there is likely a lot that I have yet to go over and discuss. But I must confess, I have a significant level of concern for the Chainsaw sphere:

3d6 base damage, and an 18-20/x2 critical rate. For 1 charge per hour, which can easily last you through several combats during a dungeon raid. Not to mention that every character, from what I can tell, has a minimum of 4 charges a day, assuming they spend the 2 hours (at level 1) to charge the pool up to the maximum. Considering the fact that Extra Sphere Talent is a generic combat feat that just about everyone can pick up, I'm very worried that the Chainsaw talent as is, would rapidly end up being the end all, be all weapon for any 2hd warrior, due to how powerful and accessible it is.

[Danielxxi]

If you notice, drones in the latest update possess the gadget tag/descriptor, as such, the are activated like gadgets.


You are right. It is not in the text, but the talent have the gadget descriptor.



It should be the same action as activation (a move action).


I re-read the document and I could not find where it says that deactivating a gadget is a move action.



Unless manually deactivated, a drone like other gadgets remain active until it runs out of charges. The drone does not consume charges for merely being active (unless otherwise noted).


I assume that, because it doesn’t say the otherwise, but I think that should be explicit.



Scenario 1: (single stone wall) that is correct.
Scenario 2: (2 stone walls 10 ft apart) the first wall would reduce the remaining signal (40 ft) in half (20 ft), the second wall would reduce the remaining signal (10 ft) in half (5 ft). In total, the signal which started at a range of 50 feet would only travel 25 ft.
Scenario 3: (single stone wall that is twice as thick) in this scenario, it would have the same result as if you had two adjacent 1-ft thick stone walls, meaning that assuming the 2-ft thick wall was 10 ft away, the remaining signal range (40 ft) would be reduced by half twice (20 -> 10 ft). In total, the signal would travel only 20 ft.

I apologize, but I don't understand your last question.


This make a lot of sense.

My English is really out of practice, but is it clear in the following text that two walls or that a 2ft stone wall halves the range of the signal twice?

The text says “When a signal would be blocked by 1 ft of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 ft of wood or dirt, the remaining signal distance is halved (rounded down to the nearest 5 ft”



Scowling Dragon has already answered this question, however I think it does make sense to have it scale not by skill ranks but by number of augments.


Yes may issue is not with scaling penalties, but with different DC for different characters. Look at the previous example “a level 20 party, 2 characters with Internal Tool, one with 5 ranks in craft and other with 20 ranks. why should it be harder for the second one?”, I known my players, that situation will become a two hours discussion that end in a hose rule changing that.

[Scowling Dragon]

Asume a level 20 party, 2 characters with Internal Tool, one with 5 ranks in craft and other with 20 ranks. why should it be harder for the second one?

And why do characters get better at learning other languages and being good sailors from just killing monsters (Even if they have never sailed in their life)? :smallconfused:

Because Im not going to put a 12 page explanation detailing advanced schematics for this sort of thing that will come up in corner cases of corner cases of corner cases of corner cases.

For instance why would an exoskeleton be as equaly hard to conceal as a internal tool thats the size of an ear? Maybe then I need to spend page space documenting how much penalty each individual augement has (And wether or not using it breaks disguise)
You can play arbitrary games like this forever until the game becomes a hardcore sim. But I went with what generally worked and would cover 90% of the cases.

And nobody even questions how you can even HIDE a "Internal tool" thats an augement you don't implant.

Nobody is questioning about the augements weight, about how much they slow you down, or noise penalties from how they function, or material requirements or if they malnfunction in water or in sand or if they need maintenance.

No only about penalties that they currently have.

Sorry for just bursting like this Im just currently having some stress at home.

the TLDR version is: Its simple and covers most issues. You can make your own fluff explanation if you want, or houserule it away if you so desire.

As for drones I'm not the guy who wrote them, so I have no explanations.

[Storyteller_Arc]

Having a higher penalty for being more skilled doesn't even make sense from a mechanical standpoint through. You want to get better as you get more skilled, to decrease the amount of penalty you take if at all possible, or at very least, the penalty doesn't actually get worse because your more skilled than the other individual.

Having the penalty increase per amount of arguments makes a lot more sense.

Edit: Also, I'm going to leave most of my thoughts on the document itself.

[Danielxxi]

Scowling Dragon, I think that you misunderstood me, I do not try to be rude at all. Maybe my level of English sometimes make my post look rude, but that was never my intention. I apologize if that was the case.

What I tried to say was that penalties normally do not work like that in pathfinder, more rank should never give a penalty by itself. Gadgets with more or better abilities can, more gadgets can, more ranks shouldn’t.

[Mehangel]

What I tried to say was that penalties normally do not work like that in pathfinder, more rank should never give a penalty by itself. Gadgets with more or better abilities can, more gadgets can, more ranks shouldn’t.

Anyways, I have updated augments so that the penalty scales with donned augments instead of ranks.

[Mehangel]

Okay, I haven't fully read through the new Sphere, so there is likely a lot that I have yet to go over and discuss. But I must confess, I have a significant level of concern for the Chainsaw sphere:

3d6 base damage, and an 18-20/x2 critical rate. For 1 charge per hour, which can easily last you through several combats during a dungeon raid. Not to mention that every character, from what I can tell, has a minimum of 4 charges a day, assuming they spend the 2 hours (at level 1) to charge the pool up to the maximum. Considering the fact that Extra Sphere Talent is a generic combat feat that just about everyone can pick up, I'm very worried that the Chainsaw talent as is, would rapidly end up being the end all, be all weapon for any 2hd warrior, due to how powerful and accessible it is.

I have went ahead and made Chainsaw into a Legendary talent requiring Particle Blade. This should help resolve issues with players merely spending a single feat for the weapon.

[Scowling Dragon]

This has been so obstinate. This has been based on the Witchmarked drawback:

Witchmarked
Some aspect of your characteristics is a dead giveaway about your magical nature. This could be any purely cosmetic modification or sensation that is hard to hide such as a vestigial tail (or tails), glowing eyes, an aura visible to the naked eye or the stench of death clinging to you. The intensity of this trait grows proportional to your power. You take your caster level as a circumstance penalty to Disguise checks. Anyone who sees you and/or beats your Disguise check is able to identify you as magical and may make a Knowledge (arcana) check DC: 20 - your caster level (minimum DC 0) to learn your caster level and what base magic spheres you possess.

Maybe its worth wording it instead to identify augements and gadgets.

[Mehangel]

This has been so obstinate. This has been based on the Witchmarked drawback:

Witchmarked
Some aspect of your characteristics is a dead giveaway about your magical nature. This could be any purely cosmetic modification or sensation that is hard to hide such as a vestigial tail (or tails), glowing eyes, an aura visible to the naked eye or the stench of death clinging to you. The intensity of this trait grows proportional to your power. You take your caster level as a circumstance penalty to Disguise checks. Anyone who sees you and/or beats your Disguise check is able to identify you as magical and may make a Knowledge (arcana) check DC: 20 - your caster level (minimum DC 0) to learn your caster level and what base magic spheres you possess.

Maybe its worth wording it instead to identify augements and gadgets.

Two things regarding this situation.
1st) Witchmarked is a drawback, not a sphere ability.
2nd) It is understandable that as a spellcaster grows in power, the amount that they glow should also grow. On the other hand, I think that the more primitive an augment is, the more obvious it should be. The most advanced augments would probably be form fitting or blend into clothing/skin. Of course, the more augments used, the more likely someone should be able to notice them.

For these two reasons, I have decided to make the penalty grow not with ranks but with number of augments.

[Scowling Dragon]

For these two reasons, I have decided to make the penalty grow not with ranks but with number of augments.

And as advanced a gadget becomes it whirs more and beeps more and has more moving parts, and becomes easier to compromise with sloppy disguises. This is a completly arbitrary fluff based decision.

In addition I could nitpick your choice about the amount of augements as well. Why if Im wearing an ear augement thats as easily noticable as a second head or wearing a massive exoskeleton.

Remember the disguise penalty is to only disguse that augement, not to disguise that you have augements at all. If you have a augement earing the penalty is to disguise it as not an augement.

[Xararion]

Hello. I originally meant to give this feedback in the playtest document, but it was growing bit long and I know one should try to keep feedback in the document brief. So I brought it here to give my full account without bogging the document down too much.

First, I want to say the good things so it doesn't come up as me being overly negative. I like the versatility of options granted by the sphere, and I feel like the charge mechanic is well thought out currently, its fair, it's distinctly not magical, and it can be sculpted / fluffed differently depending on how the game world itself is working out. The sphere opens up both utility and combat options for martials, while also exploring thematic where there is still room. I feel these all make the sphere a worthy thing.

Now my more varied feedback. I do feel that the sphere as is, does create not insignificant amount of tonal dissonance. Normal fantasy setting and the sphere do kinda clash. For pathfinders Golarion only one region, maybe two in the entire world could be easily justified to have this sphere. When it comes to how well this sphere fits in campaign worlds, I'd say that the entire sphere is a legendary material. Its existence radically changes the world. (for some people, this is a positive mind, I'm just traditionalist.) I would personally advocate some sort of disclaimer about possible effect to the world this sphere might have.

I also personally feel that technician and this sphere do exist in sort of weird spot next to each other. I feel like this sphere's existence does dilute technician. It doesn't necessarily overlap, though some parts of it do, to some extent, but not too disruptively. And some parts synergies, which is nice. Instead I'd say that the fact that now tech is available for anyone and everyone, kinda does lessen the impact of having a technician as class and in the party.

Now the things that brought me to write commentary in the document.

Advanced Firearms talent

This talent is currently slightly troublesome in my mind. While I personally like having access to guns that don't suck, this talent is currently an absolutely amazing single feat expenditure for a gunslinger, and allows anyone else to basically get a firearm better than that of a standard gunslinger (who get one as class feature) with nothing but feat or tradition. Not necessarily bad thing, just figured I'd point this out. You clearly noticed this yourself since the space marine (not fan of the name, this isn't starfinder, nothing in it implies space) basically already trades some things to just having the advanced firearm talent.

I'd also like to note that pathfinder has list of modern firearms published in an adventure path before. Currently the firearms on this talent are more advanced than those, which are designed to be at world war II level. This is significant difference.

Questions: Can you enchant gadget firearms? Do you need permanent gadget to enchant them? What happens to the enchantment if you change your gadget allocation with an enchanted firearm? Can you make gadger firearm into technician invention?

My personal feedback and suggestions. Scale back from the Glock and LMG, they're bit out there for timeline. Glock is also trademark and would feel really weird in a fantasy setting to say “I pull out my glock and shoot him”. Another thing that might be personal. Also, if you keep them as is, I'd suggest changing the charge count on LMG to 30, just to it matches with low grade ammo produced. Less bookeeping if you don't create 75% of a clip on one charge.

I don't think you need to go full automatic on the personal firearms. You have talent in place for having a machine gun, that would already fill that niche. Make both the light firearm (revolver) and two hander be semi-automatic, since that's rule that doesn't exist in normal pathfinder and thus doesn't overlap or pull up comparison points.

Or if you want to go full automatic, make this a 2 talent thing. First buy gets you weapons that are more advanced than pathfinders normal blackpowder weapons, but less advanced than WW2 or modern. And second talent gives you modern assault weaponry. I know that's a biter on word count though.


Alternate element pack & Cartridges in general

I love these talents, I just wish we could have more of them. I love the idea of being able to pull out a cartridges of special ammunition for situation, and these are useful from level 1 and peak at 5 which is nice and early. I hope in future apocrypha or as later addition to here you could add more cartridges.

One suggestion for a cartridge: Alchemical cartridge. Allow weapon to deliver a charge of an alchemical consumable in addition to its normal effect. This would synergise with alchemy sphere, and could be fun in general. For example using a firearm to shoot out a tanglefoot bag as tangle shot.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Currently the firearms on this talent are more advanced than those, which are designed to be at world war II level.
They're WW1 weapons actually, not even WW2, let alone truly "modern" which is why I've always hated that they're called modern firearms.



Alternate element pack & Cartridges in general

I love these talents, I just wish we could have more of them. I love the idea of being able to pull out a cartridges of special ammunition for situation, and these are useful from level 1 and peak at 5 which is nice and early. I hope in future apocrypha or as later addition to here you could add more cartridges.
I absolutely agree, especially when you can use them on regular firearms with a talent.

[Xararion]

They're WW1 weapons actually, not even WW2, let alone truly "modern" which is why I've always hated that they're called modern firearms.


In my defense on that matter.

Though the firearms presented here were most commonly used by soldiers in World War II, these statistics can be used to simulate most other firearms of the same era.

is what the pathfinder srd itself says about those weapons, hence me calling them WW2 ones. And the mosin-nagant in the list is from 1940-1944 which would make it WW2 weapon. Some of the weapons were already in use on WW1, but should be noted that the weapons on the page were those used by soviets. The maxim machine gun was in use of soviets during WW2 but was used in WW1 already.

My point on that still stands. Sure they're not modern, but they're still fair bit more advanced than anything players normally could get access to.

[Eldaran]

I hate the changes David made to the Advanced Firearms talent, not only are they terribly imbalanced, calling it things like a Glock is just stupid.

[Mehangel]

I hate the changes David made to the Advanced Firearms talent, not only are they terribly imbalanced, calling it things like a Glock is just stupid.

Don't worry, those changes are getting removed tonight. Although, I will be making other proposed changes to the talent soon (maybe tonight).

[Mehangel]

Okay, I have here are a bunch of talents that are being reworked (such as the firearm gadget, jet packs, etc). Feel free to leave comments about them.

Tech Sphere v2 - Rework 1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LvIm1dl5jQlODHNMwEtDwSP-r61goQ9ngqLyoogIFkY/edit)

[Xararion]

Looking fair bit better, advanced weapons being more in line and more advanced than that being locked behind GM's approval. Nice that you implemented the alchemical shot option as well.

I still have those questions from the previous post left but I'll post them for convinience.

Can you enchant gadgets that grant you weaponry? You can get pretty far with unenchanted firearms since they target touch AC, but on the whole and in long term it'd be nice to have some option to enchant them. Can the permanent gadget feat be used to make weapon crafted by tech sphere into enchantable, if it isn't so normally.

[khadgar567]

advance weapons aka how to build gunblade without technician class. the new content looks good but can we please get the drones and cyber limbs out now I need to wait again to play LT Jackson Briggs

[Mehangel]

Looking fair bit better, advanced weapons being more in line and more advanced than that being locked behind GM's approval. Nice that you implemented the alchemical shot option as well.

Good to hear.


Can you enchant gadgets that grant you weaponry? You can get pretty far with unenchanted firearms since they target touch AC, but on the whole and in long term it'd be nice to have some option to enchant them. Can the permanent gadget feat be used to make weapon crafted by tech sphere into enchantable, if it isn't so normally.

I currently dont see an issue with explicitly stating that permanent gadgets can make weapons crafted by the Tech sphere masterwork quality and thus enchantable. While, not explicitly stated, normal gadgets from the Tech sphere are supposed to be disposable (and definitely not masterwork quality), so I would rather discourage making the regular weapons enchantable.


advance weapons aka how to build gunblade without technician class. the new content looks good but can we please get the drones and cyber limbs out now I need to wait again to play LT Jackson Briggs

The rework I just posted yesterday will likely be updated with new drone rules.

[Mehangel]

And the rework now has proposed rules updates for contraptions (not sold on the name), which include autoweapons (turrets), drones, and vehicles.

[Storyteller_Arc]

I have went ahead and made Chainsaw into a Legendary talent requiring Particle Blade. This should help resolve issues with players merely spending a single feat for the weapon.

Hmmm, that's a good idea. Not only is the Chainsaw the type of weapon that some DMs are likely going to be very unsure of allowing in their game, but it also makes the Particle Blade much worth picking up in order to have access to the Chainsaw.

[Scowling Dragon]

Yeah my bad on the modern weapons right off the bat.
Mehangel really cleaned it up.

As for the enchantment issue, yeah as impermanent weapons its not a great idea to spend money to enchant them, but they can still benefit from the enhancement sphere.

For future Apocrypha I have the following ideas:
Technomagic Apocrypha
Accessory Apocrypha
World Building Tech Sphere Options (Since we agreed that they should be saved for a separate book and not the core one).
Forcefield Apocrypha
Weapons Apocrypha
Hacking Apocrypha

[Xararion]

I think when you reach that many apocrypha's, you might as well just make inventors handbook 2 somewhere down the line. That seems to be more than enough content to justify a second manual, instead of making 5 talent mini booklets. Especially with something that's as impactful to the game world as basically changing the tech level.

[Scowling Dragon]

I think when you reach that many apocrypha's, you might as well just make inventors handbook 2 somewhere down the line. That seems to be more than enough content to justify a second manual, instead of making 5 talent mini booklets. Especially with something that's as impactful to the game world as basically changing the tech level.

That might be a fair point.

[Mehangel]

Tech sphere handbook v3 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bo5PW5IV0XZ975NjalkepxTp92qcd5iWMxndv0Dykos/edit#) is now available for interested parties. Hopefully, this will be the last major update to the document.

[inuyasha]

I haven't really commented on this yet, but I've been eyeing its progress the entire time, and I'm happy that this exists :smallbiggrin:

I'm gonna look at v3 some more, see if there are any contributions to be made (even if it is a little late).

[viperwolf306]

Any ideas for making this interact with the ships of Skybourne vehicle building rules?

[Mehangel]

Any ideas for making this interact with the ships of Skybourne vehicle building rules?

There isn't space in the Tech sphere handbook, so Ships of Skybourne support won't make it into the book, and will have to wait for other expansions.

[Mehangel]

I want to thank everyone who participated in the playtest. The handbook is now available in pdf form online for purchase for those who are interested.

[inuyasha]

Awesome! I'm happy to hear that. Will the book ever be available in print at all?

[Mehangel]

Awesome! I'm happy to hear that. Will the book ever be available in print at all?

Yes, once proofing and any errors not initially caught before making it to PDF are corrected (this process usually takes 2-4 weeks).

[inuyasha]

That's wonderful! I'm super excited to get a print copy, since my name actually got put in the playtest doc :smallbiggrin: