Banjo the Clown and the Sixth Quiddity

[HackneyedTrope]

I'm just gonna...huh. I'm just gonna throw this out there. I'm just spitballing. But are we sure that we need the Dark One in order to provide the fourth quiddity? Because I can think of one other god who has ascended without any sponsorship from existing pantheons, in fact, this particular god was specifically denied membership in the Northern Pantheon: Banjo the Clown, God of Puppets.

No, hear me out. Banjo DOES have divinity, we can see an example of this HERE (can't post links yet, but it's in comic #80). Furthermore, Banjo is the rival of Giggles the Clown (God of Slapstick), who is currently worshipped by an entire tribe of orcs. Based on the Rule-of-rivals-always-being-of-equal-or-greater-power-than-you (can't remember exactly which comic this is from, if someone could find that, it would be great), Banjo MUST be of at least equivalent power. And as we can see that both ascended completely independently of any established pantheon (Hinjo, #563; as well as the fact that Elan was attempting to bring Banjo into the northern pantheon in #137), they would, by their very nature, have a unique quiddity of, I dunno, orange or something (actually, it would have to be orange, unless you move into tertiary colors). It would be pretty easy, or at least Not Impossible, a deity who is roughly in line with Banjo's principles to command one of their more powerful clerics (17th level or above) to temporarily become a Banjoist, or at least a Gigglist, in order to trap the Snarl

So, what do you think? Does Banjo have the potential to save the world (or possibly even kill the Snarl, given that with the Dark One, they would have a sum total of 5 unique quiddities), or is the God of Puppets really no more than that which he represents?

Lastly, would that make this the longest call-back in webcomic history, given that Banjo first demonstrated his power in 2004, and was shown to be unaffiliated with any current pantheon in 2005?

[1659PT 01/19/2019]

[Caerulea]

No. He is a puppet, not a god. Also, I think it would not fit well with OotS, to have a joke solve something that has dramatic stakes.

[HackneyedTrope]

No. He is a puppet, not a god. Also, I think it would not fit well with OotS, to have a joke solve something that has dramatic stakes.

Care to explain your reasoning?

EDIT: No, he's specifically shown to be able to smite people, as in comic #80. Just curious, did you mean to write in white text? 'Cause it's kinda invisible on the background.

[1709PT]

[Caerulea]

Care to explain your reasoning?
I did. (Read the white text)

[Draconi Redfir]

probly not going to happen for the same reason Banjo was not the deciding vote (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1027.html)

[Caerulea]

EDIT: No, he's specifically shown to be able to smite people, as in comic #80. Just curious, did you mean to write in white text? 'Cause it's kinda invisible on the background.

I don't think he, even accepting that he is a god, which I do not, and assuming that he has a different quiddity than the others (he doesn't) would be powerful enough to patch the rifts. Even assuming that somehow he was, he only acts as Elan dictates, who does not know enough to direct him to patching the rifts. Furthermore, the Creed of Stone would have a better chance, because of their (previous) number of worshipers.

Yes.

[HackneyedTrope]

Ah, but he was not the deciding vote because he wasn't part of the Northern pantheon. Also, he didn't currently have a cleric capable of casting Summon Proxy. It would be easy not too difficult for one of the gods to command a cleric of theirs to become a Bajoist for long enough to recieve a 9th level spell slot.
[1712PT]

[Caerulea]

Ah, but he was not the deciding vote because he wasn't part of the Northern pantheon. Also, he didn't currently have a cleric capable of casting Summon Proxy. It would be easy not too difficult for one of the gods to command a cleric of theirs to become a Banjoist for long enough to receive a 9th level spell slot.
[1712PT]
I don't believe he has the power to grant the equivalent of 9th level spells. I took the only scene where he displayed any sort of power at all to mean that it was the limit of his power. One more worshiper wouldn't increase it much. Additionally, there is the issue that he only does things Elan instructs.

Also, if there were a third pantheon that voted against the destruction of the world, the vote before the northern pantheon would be 2 against, 1 for, and there would be no way in Hel that Hel could destroy it. At least, not without significantly more effort.

Edit—Missed your original points about giggles:
One Orc tribe does not grant unlimited power. In fact, it does not grant any power (besides that of assulting your enemies with a horde of angry Orcs. Which, while not to be underestimated, does not enable one to repair rifts in reality.) In the words of Durkon, "thar not real gods! Thar puppets!" (561)


Why are you ending your posts with a four digit number in brackets, followed by "PT"?

—Caerulea

[hroþila]

Since everything including the gods are shaped by belief, there is no agreement on whether the tiny powers displayed by Banjo are real, or merely a product of Elan's magic. But even if Banjo had some of the same quality that makes the gods divine, that wouldn't mean he has enough in terms of quantity to count as a god. Even in a "Banjo is a god" scenario, he's clearly not powerful enough and he has no clerics, so it's a dead end.

Also, the rivalry rule is one-way - the "protagonist" can cefinitely fall behind, even if their rival will always be a threat no matter what newfangled ultimate x-treme training the protagonist went through.

Just curious, did you mean to write in white text? 'Cause it's kinda invisible on the background
Writing in white is kind of a thing in this forum when you want to be coy or just feel like including easter eggs for the most dedicated forum readers

[Draconi Redfir]

if Banjo DOES have any level of Divinity, it's less then that of the Demi-gods. And they were only brought in as emergency backup voters, not being full gods yet, and even less likely to survive the destruction of the world then the Elves or the Dark One.

long story short, there is just no way an inanimate hand-puppet with worship from maybe 50 ish orcs and one bard will somehow outclass the demigod of all frost-giants, who wasn't even important enough to be invited to the primary voting.

[HackneyedTrope]

Refutations and concessions in no particular order:


Also, the rivalry rule is one-way - the "protagonist" can cefinitely fall behind, even if their rival will always be a threat no matter what newfangled ultimate x-treme training the protagonist went through.

Is Banjo the protagonist of his rivalry? Banjo's alignment seemed to be relatively neutral, given that he condoned both Belkar's sacrifices and "hates killing". Most likely, his rivalry with Giggles is more of a "Red vs Blue" thing than straight good vs evil.


I don't believe he has the power to grant the equivalent of 9th level spells.

Digging up my copy of Deities & Demigods now...
Found it. According to this, a demigod (Divine Rank 1-5) can grant spells. However, it does also mentions that people with a Divine Rank of "0" cannot grant spells unless specifically allowed by that campaign, which is what Banjo/Giggles might be. DR 1 is also mentioned to be a few hundred devout worshippers (Worship), and even more people who know of the god (Belief). He's also got no Dedication yet, which is a problem, though if Elan somehow manages to gather up a bunch of worshippers, I'm sure Belkar would be happy to turn them into Dedication:smalleek:


if Banjo DOES have any level of Divinity, it's less then that of the Demi-gods. And they were only brought in as emergency backup voters, not being full gods yet, and even less likely to survive the destruction of the world then the Elves or the Dark One.

He doesn't need to survive the world's destruction, just donate a "drop of power" before it according to Thor.


Even in a "Banjo is a god" scenario, he's clearly not powerful enough and he has no clerics, so it's a dead end.
Clerics can change faiths. I'm pretty sure this requires an Atonement spell, however, so it's not foolproof.


One Orc tribe does not grant unlimited power. In fact, it does not grant any power (besides that of assulting your enemies with a horde of angry Orcs. Which, while not to be underestimated, does not enable one to repair rifts in reality.)
Clerics can change gods.


One Orc tribe does not grant unlimited power. In fact, it does not grant any power (besides that of assulting your enemies with a horde of angry Orcs. Which, while not to be underestimated, does not enable one to repair rifts in reality.)
Their belief adds to his power, increasing his divine rank


long story short, there is just no way an inanimate hand-puppet with worship from maybe 50 ish orcs and one bard will somehow outclass the demigod of all frost-giants, who wasn't even important enough to be invited to the primary voting.
He doesn't have to, he just needs to be in a distinct pantheon from him.


Additionally, there is the issue that he only does things Elan instructs.
That IS a problem, and possibly a deal-breaking one.

Oh, and the thing with the numbers is a habit I picked up from fanfiction.net's PM system, which only records the date, and not the time. The numbers and letters are my current time and timezone.

[1804PT]

[CriticalFailure]

I doubt it.

What I do think is decent likely is that someone/something will end up receiving green quiddity and restoring it at some point, so that there ends up being all five known quiddities available to the Gods and potentially worked into the world at the end. The snarl-world seems like it will be important, and the possibility of something in the snarlworld, made of the four original quiddities, being taken back could be a way to bring green back into the world. For example, I could see a situation where V or V and Redcloak or whatever end up trying to separate a sample back into the constituent 4-colored strings, or something like that.

Obviously anything could happen, but when it comes to wild theorize for my own entertainment I think that there's a pretty strong possibility of green being restored to the world as the result of material from the snarl world being brought back through the rift and all five colors eventually being brought together.

[HackneyedTrope]

@CriticalFailure Good point. I didn't think of that.

[Morty]

Jokes are one thing, but does anyone actually expect the world to be saved by a gag from the very earliest days of the strip?

[HackneyedTrope]

I dunno. If jokes and gags can summon a 100ft tall demon from the Abyss...

[hroþila]

Is[/I] Banjo the protagonist of his rivalry? Banjo's alignment seemed to be relatively neutral, given that he condoned both Belkar's sacrifices and "hates killing". Most likely, his rivalry with Giggles is more of a "Red vs Blue" thing than straight good vs evil.
Being the protagonist has nothing to do with being Good or Evil, though - Belkar is a protagonist. Banjo is more of a "protagonist" than Giggles because he's the puppet of a member of the Order of the Stick. And if none of them count as "protagonists", then the "rule" doesn't apply in the first place.

(The comic in question talked about "PCs" rather than "protagonists", but they're functionally the same in this context)

[CriticalFailure]

I don't think that there will be a sixth quiddity and I place Banjo very low on the list of candidates for receiving green quiddity or becoming a god in any pantheon. While not at the top of said list I would consider Giggles as a viable candidate for deification, though, given that it's been established that the monstrous humanoid races are an afterthought to the gods and thus have not worshiped them, with the exception of the goblins after deifying The Dark One. So there would be a decent reason and a legitimate need being filled if that were to happen.

[Peelee]

I dunno. If jokes and gags can summon a 100ft tall demon from the Abyss...
Starting a problem and solving a problem are in very different leagues.

No, he's specifically shown to be able to smite people, as in comic #80.
Unless that was a Prestidigitation, which Elan has access to. I have to note it causes Roy zero pain, which is inconsistent with a smite and consistent with Prestidigitation limits. Also, it is remarkably difficult to accidentally talk in white text. Quick rule of thumb, if a post looks under 10 characters or has a big gap at the bottom, it's probably whitetexted.

[Kish]

Starting a problem and solving a problem are in very different leagues.
Also, that was a devil from the Nine Hells.

(And a single relatively minor encounter; however big the devil was, the important action at that part of the story was all happening at the fleet and instigated by a third-stringer villain. Not a fit comparison for solving the ultimate problem of the series.)

[Caerulea]

He doesn't need to survive the world's destruction, just donate a "drop of power" before it according to Thor.
That drop of power is a ninth level spell, far, far, above what Banjo has been shown to be capable of.


He doesn't have to, he just needs to be in a distinct pantheon from him.

That he was attempting to join, and nearly accepted into, the Northern Pantheon implies that his hypothetical quiddity (again, he is a puppet) would be the same as Thor's and the rest's.

21:56, EST,
—Caerulea

[zimmerwald1915]

Even assuming that somehow he was, he only acts as Elan dictates
And sometimes as Therkla dictates.

[Rrmcklin]

So, we're really having the "Elan's puppets could seriously be the solution to the ultimate problem of the series, and that wouldn't be completely terrible" discussion again, huh?

[Quebbster]

Who would cast the 9th level spell needed to donate this hypothetical quiddity?
I don't expect this to happen. Convincing Redcloak to abandon (or at least change) the Plan he has worked towards his whole life sounds like an awesome story. "The puppet fixed it" does not.
Mind you, there are probably still surprises coming.

[Mightymosy]

For the record, I think an extra quiddity (or more) are something that will happen in the comic. To me it seems like a typical back and forth for the endgame: right now we believe we need a fourth (Dark One) to solve the ultimate puzzle, so the mission seems to be clear. But endgames usually come with a surprise, and then you need to somehow work against that new factor.

Very simple, rough idea:
1. 4th is TDO's quiddity, plan seems clear and seems to work.
2. TDO and rest argue: new Snarl with even more colours (or existing Snarl upgraded to new color)! PROBLEM is next level!
3. Old quiddity (green) re-enters the story (maybe MitD is old Greek monster, maybe Greek gods escape the world in the rift, maybe essence of them has always been in starmetal between worlds?)
SOLUTION is up by one.
4. Another argument: Snarl again +1 color. PROBLEM leading again.
5. The good guys realise that this might go on indefintely if they don't change something fundamentally. But how?
Give everyone and every species on the world the right to thrive and be happy. No more monsters hunting for XP.
Make a world EVERYBODY can believe in. Boom, virtually infinite colors (by virtue of virtually infinite different people who believe different things - diversity and the rights of different beings is a HUGE theme of this comic!). Snarl contained, as long as there is peace and freedom for everybody.
Last panel being something with rainbow colors, like this LGBTG stuff :-)

[Rrmcklin]

For the record, I think an extra quiddity (or more) are something that will happen in the comic. To me it seems like a typical back and forth for the endgame: right now we believe we need a fourth (Dark One) to solve the ultimate puzzle, so the mission seems to be clear. But endgames usually come with a surprise, and then you need to somehow work against that new factor.

Very simple, rough idea:
1. 4th is TDO's quiddity, plan seems clear and seems to work.
2. TDO and rest argue: new Snarl with even more colours (or existing Snarl upgraded to new color)! PROBLEM is next level!
3. Old quiddity (green) re-enters the story (maybe MitD is old Greek monster, maybe Greek gods escape the world in the rift, maybe essence of them has always been in starmetal between worlds?)
SOLUTION is up by one.
4. Another argument: Snarl again +1 color. PROBLEM leading again.
5. The good guys realise that this might go on indefintely if they don't change something fundamentally. But how?
Give everyone and every species on the world the right to thrive and be happy. No more monsters hunting for XP.
Make a world EVERYBODY can believe in. Boom, virtually infinite colors (by virtue of virtually infinite different people who believe different things - diversity and the rights of different beings is a HUGE theme of this comic!). Snarl contained, as long as there is peace and freedom for everybody.
Last panel being something with rainbow colors, like this LGBTG stuff :-)

I mean, I have issues with your assumption that the end game is at all clear in the first place. There are still plenty of things we don't know and room for surprises. Another quiddity isn't necessary at all, and your (admittedly rough) scenario of how something like that would play out (no to all that Eastern Pantheon stuff) doesn't strike me as particularly good.

[Mightymosy]

Fair enough. Let's just see. I wrote it here so later O can say "Ha I knew four colors wouldn't be the solution!"

I don't say it MUST be this way. It's just a guess, for fun. Of course I expect it to be written much better than my rough idea. What matters to me is that I think the solution won't simply be 4-colored with the 4 colors proposed right now.
(But I also don't think Banjo or Giggles will be the replacment 4th, or 5th color either. They would be part of the "infinite color solution" I proposed, though)

[Jack Of Rivia]

Guys, in OOTSverse Gods are shaped by belief, not created. For what we know until now, each and every new god was a preexisting mortal soul raised to Godhood. So, no divine Banjo, i m soory.

[Peelee]

Guys, in OOTSverse Gods are shaped by belief, not created. For what we know until now, each and every new god was a preexisting mortal soul raised to Godhood. So, no divine Banjo, i m soory.

False. The gods created the first world, so they predated any mortals. Figure out where the gods came from however you want, so long as it doesn't include "were originally mortals."

[Jack Of Rivia]

False. The gods created the first world, so they predated any mortals. Figure out where the gods came from however you want, so long as it doesn't include "were originally mortals."

If all, that indicates that gods can come out by external realms, or come into being from nothingness. Nothing indicates that a god can be created from pure belief.

[Rrmcklin]

False. The gods created the first world, so they predated any mortals. Figure out where the gods came from however you want, so long as it doesn't include "were originally mortals."

I thought the point that Jack was making is that the newer gods were mortals, not that the original gods were originally mortal.

Though I'm not sure what that actually has to do with whether Banjo is or isn't an actual god.

[Lombard]

I like the idea that Elan's childlike belief could save the universe.

But I don't like the idea that it's Banjo.

I'll just embrace the contradiction for now and keep reading.

[Riftwolf]

The main problem everyone keeps skirting round with Banjo helping to seal the rifts is this. His current High Priest is a Bard. Thor specified that sealing the rift would need a 9th level spell slot. Bard slots only go up to 6th.
Other than that, every argument on here is rock solid, I can tell without reading them. Now can we get back to arguing whether Hilgya is Chaotic-Chaotic-Evil or Chaotic-Evil-Evil please?

[Caerulea]

The main problem everyone keeps skirting round with Banjo helping to seal the rifts is this. His current High Priest is a Bard. Thor specified that sealing the rift would need a 9th level spell slot. Bard slots only go up to 6th.
Other than that, every argument on here is rock solid, I can tell without reading them. Now can we get back to arguing whether Hilgya is Chaotic-Chaotic-Evil or Chaotic-Evil-Evil please?
That was addressed, the solution being to have one cleric capable of casting 9th level spells become a devout banjoist. It still fails, because Banjo can not grant 9th level spells on account of being, y'know, a puppet. Also, I thought that was Belkar.

—Caerulea

[Peelee]

I thought the point that Jack was making is that the newer gods were mortals, not that the original gods were originally mortal.

Ah. Yeah, I misread that. My bad!

[Cat In Shadow]

I think he needs at least to become sentient to even be noticed by other gods :)

[Sir_Dr_D]

Banjo will not become a god. But it always possible that Elans joking around ends up inspiring, another an idea in OOTS version. If red cloak ends up not cooperating, the only chance the world has is to create another god. And Elan joking around just might cause them to attempt tp raise some one else to be a god. And the whole purpose of Banjo in the story is to prepare us for that plot point.

[Caerulea]

Banjo will not become a god. But it always possible that Elan's joking around ends up inspiring, another an idea in OOTS version. If Redcloak ends up not cooperating, the only chance the world has is to create another god. And Elan joking around just might cause them to attempt to raise some one else to be a god. And the whole purpose of Banjo in the story is to prepare us for that plot point.
I suspect raising somebody to godhood, especially to a new quiddity—remember gods were raised to existing pantheons before—takes more than joking around. For The Dark One to be raised required a massive effort:
An entire year of slaughter and rage by the Goblin people, who worshipped him as a god.
One mid-level bard joking around just doesn't have the same weight to recreate an event that has happened once in the countless worlds that have existed. I, for one, would feel cheated if it did work out that way. It is simply too silly for what OotS has become.

—Caerulea

[Synesthesy]

That was addressed, the solution being to have one cleric capable of casting 9th level spells become a devout banjoist

—Caerulea

This would be a sponsorship if I have ever seen one. This would make Banjo a God, but a yellow one.

No, Banjo must do it by his own, or he can not do it at all.

[Dion]

No, Banjo must do it by his own, or he can not do it at all.

I bet if we all believe in Banjo really, really hard he can do it!

You can do it, little buddy!

[zimmerwald1915]

I bet if we all believe in Banjo really, really hard he can do it!

You can do it, little buddy!
Should we clap for the fairies while we're at it?

[Caerulea]

Should we clap for the fairies while we're at it?
I don't believe in fairies. (https://www.enotes.com/topics/peter-pan/quotes/every-time-child-says-dont-believe-fairies-there)Nor should you. (https://what-if.xkcd.com/123/)

—Caerulea

[Kish]

I don't believe in fairies. (https://www.enotes.com/topics/peter-pan/quotes/every-time-child-says-dont-believe-fairies-there)Nor should you. (https://what-if.xkcd.com/123/)

—Caerulea
I think Randall missed the point of the Peter Pan lines he quotes. Peter Pan-verse fairies don't live very long because each has a lifespan from the time when a baby first laughs, to the time when that no-longer-a-baby first says "I don't believe in fairies."

[Caerulea]

I think Randall missed the point of the Peter Pan lines he quotes. Peter Pan-verse fairies don't live very long because each has a lifespan from the time when a baby first laughs, to the time when that no-longer-a-baby first says "I don't believe in fairies."
I would agree. It is lucky that they die so quickly though. Even if they don't exist.

—Caerulea

[Peelee]

I think Randall missed the point of the Peter Pan lines he quotes. Peter Pan-verse fairies don't live very long because each has a lifespan from the time when a baby first laughs, to the time when that no-longer-a-baby first says "I don't believe in fairies."

Wouldn't that mean that, if a given person never stated they don't believe in fairies, that fairy is immortal? Surely there's a natural age limit somewhere that's just not explored.

[Caerulea]

Wouldn't that mean that, if a given person never stated they don't believe in fairies, that fairy is immortal? Surely there's a natural age limit somewhere that's just not explored.
People tend to say "I don't believe in fairies" more than they laugh for the first time as a child. I would expect the population of fairies to decline over time.

—Caerulea

[Peelee]

People tend to say "I don't believe in fairies" more than they laugh for the first time as a child. I would expect the population of fairies to decline over time.

—Caerulea

Every child will laugh for the first time. Not every child will say "I don't believe in fairies." if each fairy is tied to a child (haven't read Peter Pan, I'm assuming Kish is accurate), then the fairy population should rise over time, or at least be consistent with worldwide birthrate.

[Caerulea]

Every child will laugh for the first time. Not every child will say "I don't believe in fairies." if each fairy is tied to a child (haven't read Peter Pan, I'm assuming Kish is accurate), then the fairy population should rise over time, or at least be consistent with worldwide birthrate.
It possibly is, we aren't given any real hints in the book. However, what I meant was that if the average amount of times people proclaimed their lack of belief was greater than 1 (the average number of first laughs), the population would decrease. It is possible each fairy is tied to a specific child, then it would increase, but we can't know. The book doesn't say.

—Caerulea

[Kish]

Wouldn't that mean that, if a given person never stated they don't believe in fairies, that fairy is immortal?
Peter Pan is, in some ways, a very cynical book.

I think the intended takeaway is that saying "I don't believe in fairies" is an inevitable part of growing up, whether one actually speaks those words or not.

This is just my takeaway, though; I have no source of special insight into the author's intentions and can't prove it.

[Peelee]

It possibly is, we aren't given any real hints in the book. However, what I meant was that if the average amount of times people proclaimed their lack of belief was greater than 1 (the average number of first laughs), the population would decrease. It is possible each fairy is tied to a specific child, then it would increase, but we can't know. The book doesn't say.

—Caerulea

Even if it's not a direct 1:1 connection, babies of every culture will laugh, but not every culture has a concept of fairies (or a cultural disbelief in them). So the fairy birth rate is still tied to the worldwide birth rate, it's just the death rate that is an unknown variable. Also an unintentional fairy holocaust by a global cabal of unwitting children. Kind of disturbing when it's expanded to this degree, gotta say.

Peter Pan is, in some ways, a very cynical book.

I think the intended takeaway is that saying "I don't believe in fairies" is an inevitable part of growing up, whether one actually speaks those words or not.

This is just my takeaway, though; I have no source of special insight into the author's intentions and can't prove it.

Well sure, if you want to be all reasonable about it.

[Caerulea]

Even if it's not a direct 1:1 connection, babies of every culture will laugh, but not every culture has a concept of fairies (or a cultural disbelief in them). So the fairy birth rate is still tied to the worldwide birth rate, it's just the death rate that is an unknown variable. Also an unintentional fairy holocaust by a global cabal of unwitting children. Kind of disturbing when it's expanded to this degree, gotta say.
Not that much worse than that committed by the lost boys, and other inhabitants of Neverland. It is said that every time one breaths in Neverland, a mother (or possibly a parent, I don't recall) dies. Peter Pan even exploits this to try to kill Wendy's and the other's parents before they can leave. It really is a dark book.

—Caerulea

[Peelee]

Not that much worse than that committed by the lost boys, and other inhabitants of Neverland. It is said that every time one breaths in Neverland, a mother (or possibly a parent, I don't recall) dies. Peter Pan even exploits this to try to kill Wendy's and the other's parents before they can leave. It really is a dark book.

—Caerulea

.... That's messed up. Im going to go be happy with Dustin Hoffman, Bob Hoskins, and Robin Williams.

[Fyraltari]

.... That's messed up. Im going to go be happy with Dustin Hoffman, Bob Hoskins, and Robin Williams.

You could try this one, too.

https://static.fnac-static.com/multimedia/FR/Images_Produits/FR/fnac.com/Visual_Principal_340/5/1/0/9782749307015/tsp20121108111337/Londres.jpg

The idea for this comes from the realization that according to the book Peter Pan was flying around Whitechapel around the same time as Jack the Ripper was active. And also what exactly can lead a child to decide never to grow up.

A really messed up environment, for starters.

[Riftwolf]

https://what-if.xkcd.com/123/

XKCD did some math on fairy immortality, but at the start points out that fairies don't live forever according to the book (and, by the end, Tinkerbell is forgotten presumed dead)
Peter Pan has some messed up stuff in the original book, but considering the life of the author, it's not surprising.

[deuterio12]

Peter Pan has some messed up stuff in the original book, but considering the life of the author, it's not surprising.

Tangent, but that's true for most older fairy tales too.

Like Pinochio kills the conscience cricket on their first meeting (and is later haunted by its ghost)

[aldeayeah]

Banjo? Nah.

In a final twist, after the Dark One refuses to cooperate, Belkar will save the day by becoming a Sexy Shoeless God of War upon death.

[Malphegor]

I feel that he's more of a puppet, and Elan is the true power

[knag]

I love that this idea refuses to die.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die." -- Banjulhu, the Elder Puppet

[Quartz]

In strip 80, the Bzzt of Banjo's smite is blue, so Banjo's quiddity is likely blue.

[Peelee]

In strip 80, the Bzzt of Banjo's smite is blue, so Banjo's quiddity is likely blue.

Elan's dweomer is blue, I feel the need to note.

[Caerulea]

Elan's dweomer is blue, I feel the need to note.
Because Banjo overode the normal way of doing things and granted Elan bard spells. It makes perfect sense, if you ignore all the ways it makes no sense!

—Caerulea

[Dion]

Because Banjo overode the normal way of doing things and granted Elan bard spells. It makes perfect sense, if you ignore all the ways it makes no sense!

I agree this is the most likely interpretation.

However, it is clear the most likely future involves Hilgya choosing to worship Giggles, because comic violence.

The extra xp Hilgya got from killing Durkon will give her the boost she needs to reach 17th level, thus granting her 9th level spells, and allowing her to seal the rift with the puppet pantheon aquamarine quiddity.

[ijuinkun]

If all, that indicates that gods can come out by external realms, or come into being from nothingness. Nothing indicates that a god can be created from pure belief.

Saying that the gods who came together to create the First World (and the Snarl) were created from pure belief raises the chicken-and-egg problem, since belief doesn't happen without a believer. Somewhere there needs to be an ultimate origin, unless time loops are in play.

[Ariko]

If all, that indicates that gods can come out by external realms, or come into being from nothingness. Nothing indicates that a god can be created from pure belief.


Saying that the gods who came together to create the First World (and the Snarl) were created from pure belief raises the chicken-and-egg problem, since belief doesn't happen without a believer. Somewhere there needs to be an ultimate origin, unless time loops are in play.

You might take a closer look at the bolded part in that post you quoted.

[Son of A Lich!]

I'm guessing that Banjo needs a soul to cement himself as a god.

I think the whole point of Elan being a bard is that it makes him the opposite of Nale. Nale wanted to be a bard, but took levels of sorcerer, rogue and fighter(?) to get there. Elan is a bard, but he really ought to be a cleric - He's terrible in hand to hand combat, he doesn't have the intelligence to be a skill monkey, While he is coming around on how to use illusions, they don't come naturally to him...

The only thing that he excels at in terms of being a bard is back up healing and oratory when it comes specifically to Banjo.

Of course his magic aura isn't green or purple or pink, it's not divine magic. (Actually, I don't think I can name a Spell Caster's aura that matches their pantheon off the top of my head. Durkon's is White, Undead magic auras is almost always black, Tsu's was Purple and Blue but I don't know if the Blue was divine or not. Redcloak's is Red, not purple. I guess the Paladins' unless I'm mis-remembering. The Cleric of Loki who saved Belkar was red too, I think.)

I think it's plausible that in his future, he could die and be reincarnated as a cleric, with his Wisdom and Charisma switched. Banjo is explicitly not endorsed by the northern pantheon (Odin states that he would have endorsed Banjo), and Elan does not worship the northern pantheon. Banjo's pantheon has worship, praise and dedication - the only thing Banjo is lacking is Souls, which are a huge sudden boost in power.

And what better way to get a happy ending then coming back as who you always should have been, and the god you created helping you save the world?

Long shot? Sure, definitely.

Plausible? I think so. We'll see. We have the building blocks in place at least.

[thereaper]

I am indeed doubtful that Thor's plan will actually work out, for three reasons:

1) It's a plan that was discussed on-panel.

2) The theme of "Evolve or Die" has been getting more and more pronounced over time, and Redcloak's entire characterization has been his refusal to grow.

3) The end of the story must address the world in the rift, and Thor's plan does not (indeed, he didn't even know about it).

None of this, however, suggests that Banjo will play any role in the endgame.