A wizard with spells from only one school. Which school?

[Ellrin]

Pretty much what it says on the tin. You're a level 20+ wizard in Greyhawk. No prestige classes, no multiclassing. ACFs are fine. First party material only, and you can use feats/equipment/spells/etc. from other settings (as long as it makes even the slightest bit of sense), just none of the fluff or extra rules.

For some unfathomable reason that no amount of cheese can overcome, you can only learn spells from a single school (plus universal spells, I'm not a monster). Let's assume you can purchase/make scrolls and other magic items as normal, but you're limited to level 20 WBL forever—you can't get any more money to spend than that. (Except on food and accommodations, you can earn as much as you want for that if you somehow still need them.)

Which school would provide you the best path to batman/god wizard? I'm thinking Illusion for the shadow spells, but I'd like to hear your opinions, playground. Specific builds aren't necessary (though feel free if you'd like), this is more of a general thought experiment.

EDIT:
Didn't think to mention: no Leadership for an unrestricted 1st tier character. That's cheating.

Minionmancy and polymorph spells for access to other schools are kosher, though, as are wish shenanigans, etc.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I would say Conjuration or Transmutation. Those are widely considered to be the best schools of magic in the game.

EDIT: I would probably go with Transmutation, if only for Shapechange.

EDIT 2: Illusion wouldn't be a bad choice either, since both Simulacrum and Ice Assassin are in that school.

[flappeercraft]

Illusion would be my choice. After all Shadow Evocation & Shadow Conjuration would compensate somewhat for lost schools.

[zlefin]

how cheesey do you want the builds to be?
I concur with the others that generally speaking it's either transmutation, conjuration, or illusion for the shadow X spells. any of them could work just fine.
if you use high cheese like thought bottle stacking you could run universal school only and still be fine.

[ColorBlindNinja]

if you use high cheese like thought bottle stacking you could run universal school only and still be fine.

A big part of the reason I wanted to go with Transmutation is that Shapechange can get you free wishes. :smallwink:

[Particle_Man]

Yeah illusionist would be my pick too. But that is more for fun than for power.

Diviner might be the most powerful assuming you can use magic items for the boom part of things. Many rulers would want to know what you know and you could parlay that into a lot of political influence.

[Ellrin]

how cheesey do you want the builds to be?
I concur with the others that generally speaking it's either transmutation, conjuration, or illusion for the shadow X spells. any of them could work just fine.
if you use high cheese like thought bottle stacking you could run universal school only and still be fine.

Any amount of cheese short of pun-pun is fine, though no infinite wealth shenanigans. And I mean, it's a level 20+ wizard with access to full WBL, you could pick evocation and be "fine;" I'm just trying to decide which school, without direct access to any other, takes you closest to the full on world-breaking shenanigans of the unrestricted wizard.

EDIT:
Oh, though I should probably also say no Leadership, because otherwise just get a normal wizard or codzilla, right? I'm gonna add that to the first post.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Yeah illusionist would be my pick too. But that is more for fun than for power.

I honestly would not have guessed that Illusion would have been so popular. I can see the appeal, though.


Diviner might be the most powerful assuming you can use magic items for the boom part of things. Many rulers would want to know what you know and you could parlay that into a lot of political influence.

You can also Shapechange into an Elemental Weird to get a ton of Divination spells for free.

Shapechange! Is there anything it can't do? :smallbiggrin:

[OgresAreCute]

I'd use Conjuration which has BFC, blasting, meatshields, etc in it already and you can use summons, binds, gate, etc to grab minions that have abilities from other schools.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Conjuration all the way!
Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is IMO essential to any self-respecting wizard. It also dramatically cuts down on living expenses.
Conjuration also includes direct blasting, defensive spells, mobility spells (Teleport), and AoE control (Fog spells). It's the school that can do anything, really.

And of course Conjuration can be used to obtain a great many other schools of magic through Called creatures. Use WBL to summon them safely (you don't have access to Magic Circle Against evil or Dimensional Anchor unless you buy Runestaffs or something) and then abuse them as much as possible!



My second choice would be Transmutation (for Shapechange, Time Stop, Polymorph) because it gives you access to many other spells AND seems like fun. Who doesn't want to fly, walk on the ocean floor or even just look different?
It's also a good money-maker, convenient when it comes to landscaping and general "reshape reality", and it's an excellent bet for those wishing for Immortality (PaO cheese is the simplest method after all).

Of course there's no way I'm hell I'm going adventuring unless I really have to. Gear is mostly used for personal defense (avoiding death, extending my lifespan) and magic allows everyday convenience and income generation.

[zlefin]

Any amount of cheese short of pun-pun is fine, though no infinite wealth shenanigans. And I mean, it's a level 20+ wizard with access to full WBL, you could pick evocation and be "fine;" I'm just trying to decide which school, without direct access to any other, takes you closest to the full on world-breaking shenanigans of the unrestricted wizard.

EDIT:
Oh, though I should probably also say no Leadership, because otherwise just get a normal wizard or codzilla, right? I'm gonna add that to the first post.

well, being able to cast Wish several times a day forever is already full on world-breaking.
the same applies ofc to Gate and a bunch of other lesser options.
even setting aside the infinite uses of those.
you don't need anything else at all really; other schools are unnecessary given your tools to replicate spells of other schools.

[MeimuHakurei]

Best: Conjuration, Transmutation
Good: Illusion, Necromancy
Okay: Evocation, Abjuration, Divination
Bad: Enchantment

[ezekielraiden]

Conjuration: "Why cast things myself, when my pets cast them for me?"
Transmutation: "Why learn spells myself, when my altered forms can cast them?"
Illusion: "Why limit yourself to only one school when you can have three for the price of one?"

I generally would rate Conjuration and Transmutation above Illusion. First, you can get spells from every school, not just Conjuration and Evocation, and second, you get access to 9th level spells of every school, as opposed to capping at 6ths (Evoc) or 8ths (Conj) that are only partially real. (Not to mention that a fair number of illusions are mind-affecting and immunity to that is rather too common to be comfortable.) Which of these two ranks higher may be table-dependent--both are powerful but can be frowned on in different ways.

The real problem for any of them--though they're still good choices--is losing abjuration. That means no access to the cast majority of dispelling/suppressing magic, if not all of it. Admiration isn't a top pick for specialization but it hurts to have to give it up. I'd expect some limited wish use to make up for it (not great but possible) or seeking out some kind of item to compensate.

A Wizard allowed to pick any two schools would almost certainly pick one of the above three plus Abjuration, and progressively more with fewer school limits.

[Malphegor]

Enchantment. Mind control an unrestricted wizard to spellcast for you.:smallbiggrin:

[ngilop]

Conjuration: Because now you summon and bind things that can cast from all the schools.


Transmutation: Because now you change form into things that can cast from all the schools.


to a lesser degree:

Illusion: Because now you are pretending to cast from all the schools.

Enchantment: Because now you can mentally control things that can cast from different and/or all schools.

[Feantar]

In descending order of preference:


Illusion: Use the shadow spells to replicate many others, and Simulacrum specifically to replicate everything - since creature parts aren't priced, eschew materials will help even if normal component pouches won't.
Transmutation: Replicate supernatural abilities of monsters, including minor cleric casting (Lilitu). Kind of lacking by itself, but you can get free wishes, so that's enough to cover things.
Necromancy: Yup, because of one thing: Necrotic Cyst. You get the whole of enchantment without the innate immunities, get to have permanent slaves, of nearly everything you encounter (except Constructs). Oh, and protection from evil doesn't work once control is established. Neat.
Enchantment: Get others to do the minor miracles for you. Not particularly dangerous because those you can get are pretty weak, the rest are already immune.
Divination: Know everything. You won't be the lord of all, but you can become an Oracle who will have a really cushy life - and a serious chance for survival since you'll know when you'll need to get that magic item.
Abjuration: I am always surprised with how useful this school is compared to its reputation. Maw of Chaos, Absorption, Dispelling, Ironguard etc. You're also the only one who can hide from the diviner. Still, abjuration is very incomplete without the others. You'll be a huge threat to most spell casters around, so the only role you can take is some kind of mediator between archmagi.
Conjuration: Summons can do a lot of things, but not that much. Calling, on the other hand, can be extremely powerful. And when you don't have anything to protect yourself, insanely risky. Outsiders have enough time to be vindictive. This is a path that gives immensive powers, but I doubt you'll survive for long, even though you can be a pretty good blaster.
Evocation: Go through the Ritual of Crucimigration. Wait until a talent less director looks at a robot and wonders, what if it could go boom a lot?. Cast spell. Be hired as Michael Bay's VFX guy. Get a steady income, forever.

[Ellrin]

In descending order of preference:


Illusion: Use the shadow spells to replicate many others, and Simulacrum specifically to replicate everything - since creature parts aren't priced, eschew materials will help even if normal component pouches won't.
Transmutation: Replicate supernatural abilities of monsters, including minor cleric casting (Lilitu). Kind of lacking by itself, but you can get free wishes, so that's enough to cover things.
Necromancy: Yup, because of one thing: Necrotic Cyst. You get the whole of enchantment without the innate immunities, get to have permanent slaves, of nearly everything you encounter (except Constructs). Oh, and protection from evil doesn't work once control is established. Neat.
Enchantment: Get others to do the minor miracles for you. Not particularly dangerous because those you can get are pretty weak, the rest are already immune.
Divination: Know everything. You won't be the lord of all, but you can become an Oracle who will have a really cushy life - and a serious chance for survival since you'll know when you'll need to get that magic item.
Abjuration: I am always surprised with how useful this school is compared to its reputation. Maw of Chaos, Absorption, Dispelling, Ironguard etc. You're also the only one who can hide from the diviner. Still, abjuration is very incomplete without the others. You'll be a huge threat to most spell casters around, so the only role you can take is some kind of mediator between archmagi.
Conjuration: Summons can do a lot of things, but not that much. Calling, on the other hand, can be extremely powerful. And when you don't have anything to protect yourself, insanely risky. Outsiders have enough time to be vindictive. This is a path that gives immensive powers, but I doubt you'll survive for long, even though you can be a pretty good blaster.
Evocation: Go through the Ritual of Crucimigration. Wait until a talent less director looks at a robot and wonders, what if it could go boom a lot?. Cast spell. Be hired as Michael Bay's VFX guy. Get a steady income, forever.


That's actually pretty similar to my train of thought, although I'd forgotten about the necrotic cyst line and so had necromancy lower. Some very salient points in here. I think I'd probably also put conjuration higher since, even if it's risky, you still have magic items to handle your basic protections. Unless there are ways to use wealth to permanently handle the risk, though, it still leaves you pretty dependent on the goodwill of outsiders in the longterm, so while conjuration is amazing in conjunction with other schools, by itself I'd still rank it fairly low.

You've made a surprisingly good case for evocation, though, I must admit.