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View Full Version : Calling all Balance-Masters! Marilith Progression Needs YOU!



Yeril
2007-09-24, 04:27 PM
Credit belongs to TempeststadiossA, who originaly made this on the gleemax forums here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-221004.html), on 04-14-04, 04:49 PM

Upon finding this Marilith Progression chart, I knew it was exacly what I was looking for.

But now looking over some of its abilitys Ive noticed many that stick out as being.. ahem.. OMGWTFPWNAGEHACKS!
Examples of this would be, the 4d6+1.5str tail slap with improved grab that it gets at FIRST LEVEL. :smalleek:

and another would be the SIX full functioning arms, also a FIRST LEVEL.

so to make the chance for somone ever getting to play this monster there will need to be alot of Balance changes, and being no expert, Ive naturaly decided to see if anyone want to share advice? suggestions? flames? :smallbiggrin: :smallredface:


Here is the Marilith in all her cheesy glory
MARILITH
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Yerileikre/Marilith.jpg

MARILITH
Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The MARILITH's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:

- Bluff (Cha)
- Concentration (Con)
- Diplomacy (Cha)
- Hide (Dex)
- Intimidate (Cha)
- Listen (Wis)
- Move Silently (Dex)
- Search (Int)
- Sense Motive (Cha)
- Spellcraft (Int)
- Spot (Wis)
- Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.


{table="head"]Lvl|HD|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|1d8|+1|+2|+2|+2| Darkvision 60ft, Fast movement, Improved Grab, +2 Natural armor
2|2d8|+2|+3|+3|+3| Telepathy 100ft, +2 Int, +2 Str
3|3d8|+3|+3|+3|+3| Lesser Powers 1/day, Acid and Cold Resistance 5, +2 Con
4|3d8|+3|+3|+3|+3| Fire Resistance 5, +2 Natural Armor, +2 Cha, +2 Str
5|4d8|+4|+4|+4|+4| 2 Natural Armor, +2 Cha
6|5d8|+5|+4|+4|+4| +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con
7|6d8| +6/+1|+5|+5|+5| Lesser Powers 3/day, +2 Natural Armor, +2 Int
8|6d8| +6/+1|+5|+5|+5| Electricity Resistance 10, Immunity to Poison, +2 Con
9|7d8|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5| Powers 1/day, +4 Str, +2 Dex
10|8d8|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6| DR 5/Cold Iron and Good, Large Size, +2 Wis
11|8d8|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6| Fire Resistance 10, +2 Cha, +2 Con, +2 Natural Armor
12|9d8|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6| Acid and Cold Resistance 10, Electricity Resistance 20, +2 Con
13|10d8|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7| Lesser Powers at will, Powers 3/day, +4 Con
14|10d8|10/+5|+7|+7|+7| +2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Natural Armor
15|11d8|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7| Greater Powers 1/day, SR 10+HD, +2 Int
16|12d8|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8| +2 Cha, +2 Str
17|12d8|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8| Electricity Immunity, +2 Con, +2 Wis
18|13d8|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8| Powers at will, +4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Natural Armor
19|14d8|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9| +2 Int, +2 Cha
20|14d8|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9| DR 10/Cold Iron and Good, True Seeing, +2 Con
21|15d8|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9| Constrict, +2 Str, +2 Natural Armor
22|16d8|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10| Greater Powers 3/day
23|16d8|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10| Summon Tanar'ri, +2 Str, +2 Wis
24|16d8|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10| Greater Powers at will, +4 Cha[/table]

Class Features:

AUTOMATIC LANGUAGES: Abyssal, Celestial and Draconic.

CONSTRICT (Ex): A marilith deals 4d6+(1.5xSTR) points of damage with a successful grapple check. The constricted creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+½HD+STR) or lose consciousness for as long as it remains in the coils and for 2d4 rounds thereafter.

FAST MOVEMENT (Ex): Mariliths' base land speed is 40Ft.

FEATS: Mariliths gain a new feat every 3d8HD.

IMPROVED GRAB (Ex): To use this ability, a marilith must hit with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it succeeds on the grapple check, it can constrict.

SIX ARMS: Mariliths can't use Girallon's Blessing as they already have the maximum number of limbs for a creature of their size.

SKILLS: Mariliths gain additional skill points every 1d8HD and have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

SNAKE BODY: Due to their snake body, Mariliths suffer a -10 racial penalty to all Climb and Jump checks.

SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES: A Marilith's caster level for Spell-like Abilities is equal to her racial HD. Spell-like Abilities are divided into Lesser Powers(Magic Weapon, Telekinesis), Powers (Greater Teleport, Project Image, See Invisibility) and Greater Powers (Align Weapon, Blade Barrier, Polymorph, Unholy Aura). The save DCs are Charisma based.

SUMMON TANAR'RI (Sp): Once per day, a marilith can attempt to summon 4d10 Dretches, 1d4 Hezrous or 1 Nalfeshnee with a 50% chance of success, or one Glabrezu or another Marilith with a 20% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 5th level spell.

TAIL SLAP: A Marilith's tail slap attack deals 4d6+STR points of damage.

TRUE SEEING (Su): Mariliths have a Continuous True Seeing ability, as the spell (Caster Level = Racial HD).

WEAPON AND ARMOR PROFICIENCY: Mariliths are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armors (Light, Medium and Heavy) and shields (except Tower Shields).

EvilElitest
2007-09-24, 08:17 PM
I don't have the epic level hand book, so i'm a bit confused
from,
EE

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-09-24, 08:25 PM
Can you say epic, all-demon monstrous campaign (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1786937#post1786937)?

Yeril
2007-09-25, 04:27 PM
epic, all-demon monstrous campaign... :smallredface:

DracoDei
2007-09-25, 09:10 PM
Level Adjustment and buyoff should be your friends for dealing with the 6 arms, tail slap, and constrict... Maybe could also take a page from dragons and start them off at medium size without the tail slap or constrict...just off the top of my head.

brian c
2007-09-25, 10:03 PM
Polymorph at will, at any level, is bad.

Ramza00
2007-09-25, 10:17 PM
Polymorph at will, at any level, is bad.

At level 24. A wizard, cleric, or druid will be casting an extended version of shapechange (rod of extend) that lasts 17+1 (Ioun Stone)*2*10=360=6 hours at lvl 17. Remember shapechange allows you to change forms as a free action once a round.

At lvl 24 the same wizard will be casting shapechange that lasts at least 500 minutes ((24+1)*2*10=500 minutes or 8 hours and 20 mins) and is wealthy enough by wbl to not even use 2 other 9th lvl slots for he used pearls of power. A druid or cleric will be doing it for an additional 80 minutes due to prayer beads.

Note shapechange besides also giving you the SU abilities is capped at 25 hd instead of 15 like polymorph.

The ability is fine, yes a marlith can break it, but so can a spellcaster, if you allow one you should allow the other. The DM should have a talk with his player on not abusing it, but this is necessary for any epic game.

Yeril
2007-09-26, 08:41 AM
Level Adjustment and buyoff should be your friends for dealing with the 6 arms, tail slap, and constrict... Maybe could also take a page from dragons and start them off at medium size without the tail slap or constrict...just off the top of my head.

Marilith has a LA of +8, Meaning buyoff can't be used until the 30's

They do start as medium and gain large size at level 10, Constrict is very powerful for mariliths since it causes fortitude saves vs unconcoisuness, howevery this does only come in at level 21. Used in conjuction with the savage species feat, Multigrab, the marilith can grapple with her tail and still take full round actions, but with only a -10 penalty instead of -20 to grapple

For the tail slap I would put it in as a natural attack as say level 1 doing 1d8 damage, and building up, getting improved grab at say level 10. Adding that a Mariliths tail slap counts as Chaotic/Evil/Magic at X level

For the arms I think a progression will be good, at level 1 the "secondary arms" are too weak to be efective in any way, but at say level 8, the second set of arms are usable to wield weapons, and again at level 16 all 6 arms are usable.

But then again These are just estimates of levels, having 4 arms at level 8 may be overpowering, but then again having 6 arms at level 16 may not be that great a bonus compared to everyone else.

Thanks for input everyone :smallredface:

Swooper
2007-09-26, 09:19 AM
I have to say, that's the best picture I've seen of a Marilith. Where's it from?

Yeril
2007-09-26, 09:39 AM
I found it on Wikipedia.. or some Wikipedia-esqe website.