Helping A Samsaran Find Her Way Home

[Palanan]

Samsarans seem to reincarnate at random locations, with only fleeting and fragmentary memories of their previous lives.

But a samsaran who invested a great deal in a permanent home—whether a castle, a tower, a sacred grove—would reasonably want to find her way back there once she reincarnated, to continue the work of her past lives.

So, how could she arrange to do this? How could a samsaran ensure that she would return to her home in her next life, from wherever she was reborn? And what could she do to restore her full awareness of previous lives?

[Geddy2112]

Mechanically, a strong knowledge (history) would be required, as is stated in the samsaran life wheel (http://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Samsaran%20life %20wheel).

That would help a Samsaran know where to go, and if they could use divination magic-find the path, discern location, scry(on a person) and the like they could help find it.

To my knowledge, they don't have much control over their reincarnation, but an older Samsaran could possibly have stronger ties or links to a place, helping keep the memories of the past life alive in the new incarnation. A Samsaran of high enough level with wealth could have people who will look for their new incarnation, or have magic set in place to detect this person. They might have deific favors, wishes, etc that can help bring the new incarnation back.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
To my knowledge, they don't have much control over their reincarnation….

My understanding is that it’s essentially random, and I can't recall anything to suggest otherwise. There’s not much on the samsarans compared to other races, although I haven’t looked through Inner Sea Races.


Originally Posted by Geddy2112
A Samsaran of high enough level with wealth could have people who will look for their new incarnation, or have magic set in place to detect this person.

Interesting, thanks. I’d thought about associates or servants who would search for the new incarnation—but how exactly would that work? I don’t know if scrying would be useful here, since the samsaran reincarnates into a completely new body, which might throw off the spell entirely.

The divine-favor angle sounds like the strongest bet, although even that could be of limited use if the samsaran reincarnates on the far side of the world. I'm not sure how even a well-funded network of retainers could canvas an entire planet for someone who looks completely different from the person they knew.

.

[unseenmage]

I imagine any effect that stores part of a person's soul would work as a divining rod for the rest of said soul.

That said, are there any magics or monster powers that can track a specific soul?

[ezekielraiden]

Simulacrum.

Although the simulacrum cannot advance and will be half the skill of the original, it's one of the only ways to create a genuine duplicate of a person without keeping ahold of their soul. Presumably the simulacrum will be instructed on how to aid the reborn Samsaran.

Of course this doesn't directly help you find the reborn soul. But who better to teach new-you than a literal copy of old-you? Hell, in theory there is no lifespan for a simulacrum, so you could have multiple iterations over the span of a dozen lifetimes, each compensating for the weaknesses of the others. A private university staffed by mirror images of your prior lifetimes.

And I imagine, since simulacra can cast spells, they could use divining magic to seek out the newborn. Perhaps prepare several divination scrolls or a staff or something. At the very worst, there's always wish.

[Florian]

Hm, just musing a bit.

Ok, we have three distinct but unconnected forms of reincarnation in PF/Golarion:

1) Return from the Outer Planes: That's stuff like the Reincarnation spell or other abilities that basically put the old person, soul, mind and memories, into a new body.

2) Reverse Reincarnation: That's what happens to androids. The old soul passes away, the body rejuvenates and is entered by a new soul.

3) Return from the River of Souls/Life: This category is about Samsarans and the followers of Sangpotshi. When the body dies, the soul will enter the River of Souls, but instead of heading for the Boneyard, it will switch "track" over to the River of Life (the stream from the Positive that carries new souls), so the old soul, with maybe a bit of memories and experience still attached, will reincarnate into a new body.

Disciples Doctrine and Occult Mysteries have the most information here and are quite clear on the matter. A reincarnated Samsaran/Follower of Sangpotshi is an entirely new person and can seek guidance about previous incarnations, but should not, basically also will not, continue in the footsteps of the previous incarnation, because something must have gone wrong in the previous life, else the soul would have reached perfection state and would have entered the Boneyard as such.

Beyond that, Planar Adventures has the spells Soulseeker and Speak with Soul, which can be useful in this regard.

[Geddy2112]

Interesting, thanks. I’d thought about associates or servants who would search for the new incarnation—but how exactly would that work? I don’t know if scrying would be useful here, since the samsaran reincarnates into a completely new body, which might throw off the spell entirely.
Discern location works, if you consider items owned by the past life to be items owned or touched by the new person.


I'm not sure how even a well-funded network of retainers could canvas an entire planet for someone who looks completely different from the person they knew.Samsaran's are not exactly common, and if you knew that in X days or hours after death the new one is born, you can back calculate how old or when the new one is arriving. Sending spell on blast to every worshiper of Pharasma to inform you if they deliver any weird looking babies. With enough gold and magic, it would be pretty easy.


Simulacrum.
In addition, you could make undead and/or constructs that could assist. Planar bound creatures might also be able to help.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
Sending spell on blast to every worshiper of Pharasma….

Interesting in theory, but this could easily be hundreds of thousands of people, and that’s a whole lot of ten-minute casting times. It could take years to reach every Pharasmite on the continent, with no guarantee any of them would respond truthfully.


Originally Posted by Geddy2112
Planar bound creatures might also be able to help.

This is very promising, thanks. Planar Inquiry should be able to do the trick, although the relatively low caster level could reduce the chances of getting a useful answer. Is there any way to boost the caster’s roll for Planar Inquiry?

[Psyren]

But a samsaran who invested a great deal in a permanent home—whether a castle, a tower, a sacred grove—would reasonably want to find her way back there once she reincarnated, to continue the work of her past lives.

Well, not necessarily - your personality changes too, even to the point that you might have a completely different outlook/alignment. A samsaran who discovered they had amassed a fortune in a past life through underhanded means might look back on those activities with horror or revulsion in their present incarnation. Of course, you could also end up with a personality that accepts all or most of those past ideals too and wants to pick up where they "left off", but that is not a guarantee, any more than you can guarantee a child will want to follow in their parent's footsteps.



So, how could she arrange to do this? How could a samsaran ensure that she would return to her home in her next life, from wherever she was reborn? And what could she do to restore her full awareness of previous lives?

"Full awareness of previous lives" sounds like a good way to have considerably difficulty functioning as a stable individual, if not go entirely insane. Finding out details of what your past selves have done is pretty easy, but you'd still be viewing those actions through the lens of who you are today, and choose to support or reject those actions on that basis.

I'm reminded of Avatar the Last Airbender, where all of Aang's prior incarnations stated he needed to kill Firelord Ozai. Despite that judgement being essentially unanimous, he rejected it due to his current incarnation's focus on pacifist ideals. That is more or less how I view Samsaran reincarnation to work.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Palanan
…although I haven’t looked through Inner Sea Races.

So I finally had a look at Inner Sea Races today, and while most of the information on samsarans is copy-pasted from earlier sources, there is one interesting addition—that samsarans who reincarnate far from their home are able to follow “dreams and visions” to find their way back.

That’s a little vague, and there was the clear inference that it could take years of dreams and visions to reach home, so I’d say there’s still room for streamlining the process. I feel like a community of samsarans should have some sort of mechanism for bringing lost souls back to them, perhaps using one or more of the spells already mentioned.

In fact, I can imagine a party of samsarans who roam the world, searching for their lost brethren and bringing them home again.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Of course, you could also end up with a personality that accepts all or most of those past ideals too and wants to pick up where they "left off", but that is not a guarantee, any more than you can guarantee a child will want to follow in their parent's footsteps.

Very true, and although it isn’t a guarantee, that’s the angle I’m pursuing here. To follow your analogy, how many childen have been forced by their parents to unwillingly follow a path they don’t feel is right? By extension, I can imagine a samsaran who is committed enough to a cause in their current life to want to ensure their next incarnation continues their work, never mind what the next incarnation might have to say about it.


Originally Posted by Psyren
"Full awareness of previous lives" sounds like a good way to have considerably difficulty functioning as a stable individual, if not go entirely insane.

Good point, although by “full awareness” I didn’t necessarily mean “eidetic recall.” I was thinking more of a continuity of memory with previous incarnations, which is more than the typical samsaran apparently receives.

That said, part of the assumption of the samsaran soul-cycle (for want of a better term) is that the samsaran has somehow failed to achieve whatever is necessary to Continue On, and thus remains to try and try again. Since samsarans are described as spending a great deal of time in meditation, it seems to me that reflecting on their past lives would be necessary in order to learn from them and eventually leave the mortal world forever. In that sense, developing an awareness of past lives would not only be beneficial, but essential for their souls’ ultimate release.


Originally Posted by unseenmage
That said, are there any magics or monster powers that can track a specific soul?

This question is worth posing again. My best guess would be Planar Inquiry, but I have a feeling some of the psychopomps might be able to help as well, since guiding souls is apparently their schtick. I’ll need to read up on them.