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continuumc
2007-09-24, 05:18 PM
Alrighty, i'm DM'ing a gestalt campaign for myself and one other person. I've decided to call it "With Rogueish Flair." It's going to start (and hopefully stay) in Sharn, city of towers. Both characters are going to be changelings, starting at level 1: and the only other requirement that i'm making is that each character be gestalted with the Rogue class. Basically, it's going to be a sort of rogue "we wanna be all rogueish in the city, make a rogueish mess of things, steal everything that isn't nailed down, sort of campaign."

I have a few ideas for it, however: 1. I need more ideas for things to do. Ideas of things to feature in the city to make it more interesting, etc. 2. I've never very successfully run a city campaign, and any tips, advice, or other comments to help me would be greatly appreciated.

The characters are most likely going to be: a level 1 changeling wizard/rogue; and a level 1 changeling swashbuckler/rogue. My character is going to be a trickster-like character who's real motivation is the enjoyment he gets out of tricking people. Naturally, he wants to get rich as that is inevitably his method of measuring his own success. The other player hasn't worked out the personality/motivations for her character yet.

Any ideas and or advice, etc. would be helpful. I've got quite a bit of DM'ing experience, but not so much with urban settings nor with such a focused campaign concept as a "rogue only" campaign. So, any and all ideas are welcome and appreciated.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-24, 05:29 PM
Caper films might provide some good inspiration. Ocean's Eleven ain't a bad start.

Also, the beginning of the novel "The Redemption of Althalus" has a rather entertaining rogue bit, and that's a good deal more D&Dish than any of the caper films out there, obviously. (though the book rather degrades towards suckiness further towards the middle and end... Blargh) Not too familiar with a lot of fantasy novels involving the really roguish types, to be honest.

Anyways, Gather Information through seedy taverns and whatever, going from place to place looking for a few good marks or oppurtunities ("Kundarak might have a tiny opening *here*) and leaving the players to use their creative juices to crack a well-protected stronghold to get the loot caper style can make for a very memorable adventure.

Incidentally, the Sharn: City of Towers sourcebook actually has some handy advice for running an urban campaign. So, yeah, read that section at the back of the book. It's gold if you don't already know how to run a slick urban campaign.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-24, 05:39 PM
Well, the Sharn: City of Towers book is good. Also, learn combat in 3D. Towers, platforms, sloples, falls; all that needs to be learned in tower heavy locales.

continuumc
2007-09-24, 05:43 PM
I'm not starting the campaign yet, for a few reasons. 1. We're already playing one. :-p 2. I wanted to get some more ideas from here first. and 3. I don't have the Sharn book yet, I ordered it and it's on its way here. But I figured asking for extra ideas and help here would do nothing but help me to enrich the game further.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-24, 05:49 PM
Charisma shall NOT be a dump stat in a City campaign. Invest heavily in the CHA skills.

continuumc
2007-09-24, 06:20 PM
Naturally not. Ofcourse, i'm always loathe to use charisma as a dump stat in any campaign, but it does ofcourse depend on what i'm playing.

blacksabre
2007-09-24, 08:35 PM
Off the top of my head...

Need to establish a fence to dump stolen goods

Run in with the local thieves guild...pay some tribute..
Run in with second thieves guild, pay some tribute...
Caught in the middle of a turf war
Think godfather...

Once a member of a guild, getting tasks is easy..
Like:
Hired to map out the floor plan of some merchants home(s)
Get some dirt on some local officals for blackmail
Find and acquire item X..find who may have item x, and go acquire it
A Local politician the guild owns needs help..Setup up opponent for a crime
They get enlisted to foil other rogues caper in the other guild
They get set up and heist goes bad...maybe even framed for murder..prove their innocence...

Xuincherguixe
2007-09-24, 09:11 PM
It probably goes without saying, but how about the players are part of a rebellion. Or they could just work with some rebels on occasion.

The city could be corrupt and opressive.


And of course, because of the political climate Noble houses are often filled with vicious gaurd monsters, and they would tend to store their undeserved wealth in massive frighteningly deadly fortresses. AKA Dungeons.

With a rebellion centered game, it can be easy to come up with character concepts. One of them might be a daring do gooder afraid of nothing, another might not give a damn about anyone else, and will steal everything that isn't nailed down and arrange for the deeds to transfer so he can get that stuff too. And it could explain why all the characters get together, when they might have such different backgrounds (why is that Barbarian there? Oh right, the regime killed all the Buffulo so he wants to bust an axe in some skulls, but then someone points out expensive furniture is fun to smash too)

There could also be many different resistance groups that can't seem to get along with each other. And you could steal from those guys too.

DraPrime
2007-09-24, 09:19 PM
I can think of a couple situations where they have to deal with either House Phiarlin or House Thuranni, when by stealing something they accidentally they interfere with one of the espionage missions done by the houses. Then being on the run should provide plenty of adventure.

continuumc
2007-09-25, 10:31 AM
Thanks a lot, y'all are providing lots of good ideas. :-) I particularly like the one about accidentally getting in the way of one of the Houses. That'd be amusing, but I think i'd save it for a somewhat higher level. But I need ideas for all levels, so that's fine. :-p

crimson77
2007-09-25, 12:18 PM
Having the character get in and be a part of the thieves guild can make for some good plot hooks and mini quests. Thieves guilds are great because there can be plenty of double crossing between members or rivalries in the guild itself.

Person_Man
2007-09-25, 01:10 PM
You could use my Adept of Darkness (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352&highlight=%22adept+darkness%22) idea. Rogue 1 // Warlock 1 with Hide in Plain Sight as a Swift Action.

continuumc
2007-09-25, 06:26 PM
hmm, i'm torn on the issue of joining the thieves guild. I'll have to see how she makes her character. I know that my character would be less inclined to do so, as he would be highly competitive with the other thieves and would most likely come to an eventual conflict with them. Which, ofcourse, is an idea in and of itself. I'll just have to see how the other player developes her character first.

blacksabre
2007-09-26, 04:20 PM
hmm, i'm torn on the issue of joining the thieves guild. I'll have to see how she makes her character. I know that my character would be less inclined to do so, as he would be highly competitive with the other thieves and would most likely come to an eventual conflict with them. Which, ofcourse, is an idea in and of itself. I'll just have to see how the other player developes her character first.


Thieving in a city will always lead to a thieves guild confrontation..she may not want to join one, but tribute will be demanded none the less.

If its habitual petty larcney..pick pockets, burglaries etc, they may only ask tribute..But if any large heists are performed, they don't take kindly to not asking permission first, as this just raises the heat on their other activities and brings unwanted attention from the law.

Now if the rogues start on killing spree, they may find no help from anyone..

Remember, thieves guild are the mafia, they want to make money and don't like problems..problems are quickly resolved through a a shovel and a deep hole

continuumc
2007-09-26, 06:53 PM
Hmm, yes they will likely have to join the thieves guild, at least for the beginning portion of the story. Any more great ideas? C'mon, feed me! :smalltongue:

DraPrime
2007-09-26, 06:58 PM
Well, for a change they can work on the side of the law instead of against it. This should be done at higher levels wen they know a lot of NPCs. Government knows a lot about their exploits, and offers to hire them to hunt down some terrorist organization like the Order of the Emerald Claw. They have to use all their underworld contacts and skills to root out the terrorists. Let them break a bunch of laws along the way. I think that they'll like being paid by the government to break the law.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-26, 07:23 PM
Dragonprime, that is an excellent idea! It should be used, naturally, right away.

But while exploring the sewers, you could find some DAMNED crabs! :smallfurious:

continuumc
2007-09-26, 07:24 PM
hmm..I can see that being interesting for a change in flavor; but given the nature of my character, I'd have to make it something very important for them to want his help. And it would probably involve them trying to backstab him afterwards. He's going to be a "spend my life taunting the head of the city guard" type character. But I can definitely see some potential for the idea.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-26, 07:26 PM
A rogue only needs one two motivations to help the side of the law.

1. Money

2. Offered a clean slate (all crimes forgiven)

continuumc
2007-09-26, 07:40 PM
What I meant was that they would need a really good reason to seek him out with an offer. But on that point, due to the nature of the character, he wouldn't want a clean slate: it's against his purpose. Though he would certainly be interested in money.

blacksabre
2007-09-27, 12:34 PM
perhaps you can make the character an undercover agent for the crown to infiltrate the guilds

Or he/she is on a blood vendetta for the death\destruction of family\town by the obscure lvl 15 master thief guild leader, and the only way to track him\her down is to infiltrate the guild and rise through the ranks until they identify the target of their vengeance...which that in itself could have that plot twist in the end

Could make for some interesting role play and character developement, how far will they go, what alignement shifts are they willing to accept to see their goal to the end

ALOR
2007-09-27, 12:53 PM
Setting up your own guild would be a good campaign as well. I think Sharn has 3 established Thieves guilds currently. Joining one and rising thru the ranks or starting your own is something i have always wanted to do.

continuumc
2007-09-27, 02:43 PM
hmm, that's interesting in and of itself. It might be something the other player would be interested in. I've already got the basis for my character defined and worked out. I'm really proud of him actually..it's delightful. He's a changeling but he masquerades as a human rogue/wizard named Elric Ravencaller. He will eventually want the authorities (you know, one day) to know the truth behind his identity, but for now he gets far more pleasure from fooling them. The best part, he can hide...as his true self. Additionally, he has ANOTHER false identity that is "elric's little sister" Alora. She is a dancer in a club who hasn't seen him for three years; ever since after the death of their parents. According to "her", he stole all their belongings and ditched her.

But some of those ideas do sound plausible for the other character, i'll have to see how the other player makes her character. See what her motivations are.

So, does anyone have any ideas of things that I need to or that would be interesting if I included them in the city? Not so much in the area of plot hooks (though those are still welcome) but of actual facets of the city.

DraPrime
2007-09-27, 09:10 PM
An organization that manipulates everything behind the scene and is almost unheard of is always cool.

continuumc
2007-09-28, 02:32 PM
Hmm, that is something to consider; particularly when i'm considering the thieving guilds.

Armoury99
2007-09-28, 03:28 PM
Two general recommendations here:

1) A really skilled, intelligent, nemesis on the side of law and order. Think Sherlock Homes or - perhaps even worse in some respects - Javert from Les Miserables. Make sure he or she shares at least some personality/alignment traits with the group, so that they can empathise with him and potentially admire him (much as Holmes does Moriarty), and he should be very, very competent at his job. The party should fear even the rumour of him back on their trail.

2) Read The Lies of Lock Lamora - not only is it the perfect swashbuckling saga of fantasy rogues and full of inspiration, it's based on an group's RPG adventures.

continuumc
2007-09-28, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the tips. I probably won't have time to read a new book, (aside from the Sharn book, which I got last night. :-) ) but I definitely like the idea on the lawful character. Seems like a skillful lawful/neutral character who is unusually skillful and impervious to bribing, yet not unusually harsh or violent might be a useful npc. Indeed, giving him a potent reputation would be necessary. Also, it might be interesting to set him at odds with another lawful character who is a guard captain or some similar type who is less skillful but much more harsh and brutal with his methods. They would naturally both be after the same targets, but would refuse to work together and might even get in one another's way.

Anywho, at this point i'd like to say that; when DM'ing a Gestalt campaign, I always realize that it makes the characters much more powerful. however, I like to think of it more along the lines of giving them more diversity and options than power; because I likewise enhance the power of their opponents and villains..even going so far as to make their chief opponents gestalt.

I hate to derail, since i'm getting such helpful advice, but I had something else I wanted to touch on briefly..and I really didn't want to create a new topic for it. My character will be a wizard/rogue, and i'm thinking about allowing the characters to eventually venture into gestalted prestige classes (whether taking two or just substituting one prestige class for one of their own classes will be up to the player.) Now, With my wizard/rogue i've been thinking of several prestige classes and i'd like y'alls opinions if you'd give them.

Remember: he is a thieving/trickster type character; heavy emphasis on the trickery. He will likely be, very often, on the run from the law.

The classes that I was thinking about were: Arcane trickster, Shadow dancer (I will be taking ranks in perform: dance anyway, for one of his fake personnas), and Mindbender (which i've only read through briefly, as I do not own the book featuring the class.) Any comments on these classes and how they might or might not work out? Also, any suggestions for better classes? I was thinking of eventually taking two prestige classes; I'd like one to continue increasing my caster level, but i'm not requiring either to increase my sneak attack dice. It's nice..but not necessary. I more want one's that will be interesting for play, not necessarily just powerful.

continuumc
2007-09-30, 05:45 PM
*bump* eh, I suppose i'll just create a new topic about the classes issue later. I'm well into the Sharn book now, and it has lots of really good fluff in there, as well as lots of nice detail. But that doesn't mean I still won't need y'alls ideas! :-p hehe

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-30, 07:24 PM
Arcane trickster. Tailor made for what you want.

Zavia/GenX
2007-09-30, 11:45 PM
Incidentally, im also planning one among my other projects in my head. Hope to mostly complete this by Dec.

Some of the things that im preparing is:
A nice City* with (preferably) a near by forest/lake/mountain, atleast one other town/village. (done, 1 port city, 2 port towns and 1 interior village)

Lots of NPCs. I group them by location. Tavren #1 has 1 bartender, 6 NPC, 1 Cook, 1 waitress. Street #24H is a entertainment street, so there 5 working girls/guys/things, a few rogues and bouncers, 2 'cops' and 2-6 random NPCs.
Then u tweak them for diffrent times, Morning, Afternoon, Evening, Nite.
(its all in numbers as i havn't got around to naming em. Barely started, have only like 10 NPCs done :S)

A few Power-Houses. Thiefs guild*, Assassin/rival-thief guild, A few merchant guilds, some interesting companies, a few rich+influential families, Politics, military/police guild etc.

Buildings. Banks*, Some Random Houses, Orphanage*, Shops, etc etc.

*Done

I started a thread about Gestalt, go search for it. Times the ECL by 1.25 or 1.5 depending on how good the character min/max.

My take on Gesalt in my soon to be made campaign is that NPCs can have any type of classes, even PC classes. NPC with npc classes are just weaker people, NPC with gestalt classes are like superior people. Hence 3 types of people exist, weak ones [npc classes](30%), medium ones [pc classes](60%) and superior people [Gestalt PC classes](10%).

So some of those in power has the possibility of being Gestalt. Bosses, high level minions etc etc.

These are the things i can remember off the top of my head. Hope it helps. Could u update me via pm how your planning goes at some later point in time?

Snapdragon
2007-10-01, 12:06 AM
For plot ideas, have you tried a newspaper? Magazines are also good. Union scams, urban redevelopment, loads of [local resource] to hijack, political campaigns to run/ruin, new bar openings, muggers/drugs in the park, water board (think 'Chinatown'), bar brawls with sailors/soldiers on leave, sporting events to fix, just about every section (excepting home and garden) is packed with plot.

continuumc
2007-10-01, 04:43 PM
What are you talking about? Home and Garden is the best part! monstrous ferns taking over the academy... leaking pots flooding the market... :smallcool: