Conjure Volley/Conjure Barrage as magical secret spells

[MarkVIIIMarc]

It almost seems dirty for a Bard to steal a spell from Rangers or Paladins before the primary casting class can't get for another xx levels but its legal whenever magical secret (pilfering) comes up.

Two of the ones I've considered are Conjure Volley and Conjure Barrage. I almost took Conjure Volley because a Wood Elf Bard of mine fancied herself a bit of a poetic archer (with a Charlatan background). Then I figured the idea of flying just seemed way neater even.

When would you all take one of the Conjures from a role playing stand point?

Also how do they do from an optimization point of view? I think they're ok but as a Lore Bard, not really special compared to Shatter which I already have.

https://thebombzen.com/grimoire/spells/conjure-barrage

Conjure Volley
3rd-level conjuration

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (60-foot cone)
Components: V, S, M (one piece of ammunition or a thrown weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous

You throw a nonmagical weapon or fire a piece of nonmagical ammunition into the air to create a cone of identical weapons that shoot forward and then disappear. Each creature in a 60-foot cone must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d8 damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The damage type is the same as that of the weapon or ammunition used as a component.

Conjure Barrage
5th-level conjuration

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 150 feet
Components: V, S, M (one piece of ammunition or one throwing weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous
You fire a piece of nonmagical ammunition from a ranged weapon or throw a nonmagical weapon into the air and choose a point within range. Hundreds of duplicates of the ammunition or weapon fall in a volley from above and then disappear. Each creature in a 40-foot-radius, 20-foot-high cylinder centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 8d8 damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The damage type is the same as that of the ammunition or weapon.

[djreynolds]

They're great in melee, when it un-suspecting

What about destructive wave

[Chronos]

Eh, even on a full caster, they're underwhelming. The only advantage that Conjure Volley has over Fireball or Lightning Bolt (which you could also take as a 3rd-level spell secret) is the larger area of effect, and it's not going to be often that you'll have enough enemies for that to be a big deal (and it also makes it harder to avoid friendly fire on your allies). It's also less likely to be resisted, but that doesn't even matter, because a resisted Fireball will still do more damage than an unresisted Volley.

[djreynolds]

Eh, even on a full caster, they're underwhelming. The only advantage that Conjure Volley has over Fireball or Lightning Bolt (which you could also take as a 3rd-level spell secret) is the larger area of effect, and it's not going to be often that you'll have enough enemies for that to be a big deal (and it also makes it harder to avoid friendly fire on your allies). It's also less likely to be resisted, but that doesn't even matter, because a resisted Fireball will still do more damage than an unresisted Volley.

I think they're more "style" than substance. They're cool. They could come way earlier

[sithlordnergal]

Might I suggest taking Circle of Power instead of Conjure Barrage for the 5th level spell. While it may seem dirty, ESPECIALLY with Circle of Power, its still perfectly legal. I'd even say its optimal to do that as a Bard.

EDIT: For reference, here's what Circle of power does

You radiate a sphere of energy with a 30-foot radius. The sphere moves with you, centered on you. For the duration, each ally in the area, yourself included, has advantage on saves against spells and magical effects. Additionally, when a creature succeeds on a save that causes half damage, it takes no damage.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Might I suggest taking Circle of Power instead of Conjure Barrage for the 5th level spell. While it may seem dirty, ESPECIALLY with Circle of Power, its still perfectly legal. I'd even say its optimal to do that as a Bard.

EDIT: For reference, here's what Circle of power does

You radiate a sphere of energy with a 30-foot radius. The sphere moves with you, centered on you. For the duration, each ally in the area, yourself included, has advantage on saves against spells and magical effects. Additionally, when a creature succeeds on a save that causes half damage, it takes no damage.

Agreed. Circle of Power even seems appropriate for a Bard. Amazing what dirty things Bards do.