New idea I hope draws discussion

[Hunterx]

Hello playground after that great Illumian racial ability talk I have thought of a new build that I hope draws more positive discussion because I would really like to play this Cha, if I can back it all up. So I'll lay down the build idea and I would like input on how to go about making this, calling me crazy if fine to but onto the build.

Race: Illumian
Classe: Human paragon 3 marshal 1 warlock 6
Sigils: Krau, vaul
Power word: Vaulkrau
Minor Aura: motivate charisma, or motivate dex
Spell caster level: Warlock 10 eldrich blast 5D6 invocation 6 least and lesser invocations.
Feats: lv1: skill focus: use magic device,
Bonus feat: skill focus diplomacy
Bonus feat :
Lv 3
Lv 6
Lv 9

[DrMotives]

This character doesn't do invocations as a 10th level warlock. First, the 2nd & 3rd levels of human paragon have to be applied after warlock 1 to boost invocations. Even then, that's only 8th level effectiveness, not 10. Krau does add +1 to caster level, but won't boost EB damage or increase invocations known. You have 5 invocations known, and your EB damage is 4d6.

[Hunterx]

This character doesn't do invocations as a 10th level warlock. First, the 2nd & 3rd levels of human paragon have to be applied after warlock 1 to boost invocations. Even then, that's only 8th level effectiveness, not 10. Krau does add +1 to caster level, but won't boost EB damage or increase invocations known. You have 5 invocations known, and your EB damage is 4d6.

Ok, so the caster level increase from Krau does not effect the number of evocations or the EB, just how difficult and how long the evocations are.

So it would be casting 5 evocations at caster level 10 doing 4d6 EB.

That works, just one less evocation and 1d6 less damage. Which is easy to over come.

[DeTess]

Ok, so the caster level increase from Krau does not effect the number of evocations or the EB, just how difficult and how long the evocations are.

So it would be casting 5 evocations at caster level 10 doing 4d6 EB.

That works, just one less evocation and 1d6 less damage. Which is easy to over come.

You might want to run this past your DM though. I've had a similar build in an e6 competition a while back, and one of the judges pointed out that the sidebar detailing warlock advancement only mentions PrC's that advance caster features, and Human paragon isn't a PrC. I don't agree with that ruling, but it seems to be mostly RAW. I doubt most DM's would rule it that way, but I'd check now.

[Crake]

It is also worth noting that that designer of the warlock class posted saying that, while it's not raw, he would allow warlocks to advance their eldritch blast damage (but not invocations in any way) with practised spellcaster, so it would stand to reason, if your DM accepts that logic, that an effect similar to practised spellcaster like krau would do the same. That is of course, a houserule, but it is one supported by the designer of the class itself.

[the_david]

Are Illumians human enough to take levels in Human Paragon? I'd assume they'd be Humanoid (Illumian).

[DrMotives]

Are Illumians human enough to take levels in Human Paragon? I'd assume they'd be Humanoid (Illumian).

Illumians are a human sub-race. It's like how gray elves, standard high elves, and wood elves can all take elf paragon. A number of races in Races of Destiny are human sub-races, and qualify without any cheese.

[Hunterx]

You might want to run this past your DM though. I've had a similar build in an e6 competition a while back, and one of the judges pointed out that the sidebar detailing warlock advancement only mentions PrC's that advance caster features, and Human paragon isn't a PrC. I don't agree with that ruling, but it seems to be mostly RAW. I doubt most DM's would rule it that way, but I'd check now.

Can you expand on this a little? Not sure what your talking about the sidebar. But I'll look.

[DeTess]

Can you expand on this a little? Not sure what your talking about the sidebar. But I'll look.

Right, so on page 18 of complete arcane is the explanation of the effect prestige classes with “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” have on warlocks. However, Racial Pragon classes are, technically speaking, not prestige classes, so the RAW argument was that human paragon wouldn't progress warlock casting stuff. I highly doubt that's the RAI, so most DM's will probably not rule it that way and allow Racial paragon classes to progress warlock casting if they progress spellcasting, but it might be worthwhile to quickly confirm it with your DM anyway

[BowStreetRunner]

Are Illumians human enough to take levels in Human Paragon? I'd assume they'd be Humanoid (Illumian).

Illumians are a human sub-race. It's like how gray elves, standard high elves, and wood elves can all take elf paragon. A number of races in Races of Destiny are human sub-races, and qualify without any cheese.More specifically, "Humanoid (human): Illumians are humanoid creatures with the human subtype." [Races of Destiny page 53]

[Hunterx]

Right, so on page 18 of complete arcane is the explanation of the effect prestige classes with “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” have on warlocks. However, Racial Pragon classes are, technically speaking, not prestige classes, so the RAW argument was that human paragon wouldn't progress warlock casting stuff. I highly doubt that's the RAI, so most DM's will probably not rule it that way and allow Racial paragon classes to progress warlock casting if they progress spellcasting, but it might be worthwhile to quickly confirm it with your DM anyway

I believe they were using PRC as an example as a whole, If you get a +1 to existing caster levels than you get a +1 to existing caster levels that as a whole is what I think this was about.

Plus 5D6 and 6 evocations over 4D6 and 5 evocations is not that crazy and anyone that is that petty is not worth it, kill the character off and make a new.

[BowStreetRunner]

I believe they were using PRC as an example as a whole, If you get a +1 to existing caster levels than you get a +1 to existing caster levels that as a whole is what I think this was about.

Plus 5D6 and 6 evocations over 4D6 and 5 evocations is not that crazy and anyone that is that petty is not worth it, kill the character off and make a new.That section did not state "caster levels" however. That is an important distinction.

Prestige classes mention under Spells per Day/Spells Known that you gain new spells as if you had gained a level in an existing class. While it does include increasing your caster level, you can increase your caster level in other ways without increasing spells per day or spells known.

A good example of this is the Sublime Chord. That class is usually entered from the Bard class. It does not increase spells per day or spells known for the bard, but instead has its own progression of Sublime Chord spells per day and spells known taken from the sorcerer/wizard list. However, caster level for both Sublime Chord and the existing class are equal to the sum of levels in both.