Explain psi Artificer and mantle stp erudite

[Gwyllgi]

I've read these are the two strongest classes in 3.5 what makes the Psionic Artificer and the Mantled Spell to Power Erudite so strong and why?

[Troacctid]

Psionic artificer is largely a worse version of the regular artificer and erudite is probably the most overrated class in the game so the answer is they're not, I guess?

Mantled Erudite and Spell to Power are mutually exclusive, incidentally, as they both replace the same feature.

[Psyren]

Psionic Artificer - can make any psionic item in the game, and using the rules in MiC that let you substitute psionic crafting for magic crafting, a sizeable chunk of the magic items as well. Has fewer restrictions on who can use its items also IIRC.

StP Erudite - it's a wizard that can ignore material components and carries an unlimited spellbook everywhere it goes, so...

The "mantle" part of that relies on a pretty dodgy reading, but if your GM goes for it, you can circumvent most of the limitations of psionic powers such as being able to use metamagic with them. It's plenty powerful even without that part though.



Mantled Erudite and Spell to Power are mutually exclusive, incidentally, as they both replace the same feature.

Technically no, since they both replace "bonus feat at 1st level." What the creators of those ACFs forgot is that Erudites get two of those - a floating one, and Psicrystal Affinity.

[Troacctid]

Psionic Artificer - can make any psionic item in the game, and using the rules in MiC that let you substitute psionic crafting for magic crafting, a sizeable chunk of the magic items as well. Has fewer restrictions on who can use its items also IIRC.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with the fewer restrictions thing...yeah, artificer scrolls are neither arcane nor divine, but it's not as if arcane or divine casters can use power stones any better. And even with substitutions, there are way more spells than there are powers, and there are a plethora of magic items whose prerequisites don't have any clear psionic equivalent.


Technically no, since they both replace "bonus feat at 1st level." What the creators of those ACFs forgot is that Erudites get two of those - a floating one, and Psicrystal Affinity.
That's the kind of extremely dodgy interpretation that leads to "Hey, I'm a human, I'll replace my racial bonus feat too and get all three ACFs!"

[Psyren]

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the fewer restrictions thing...yeah, artificer scrolls are neither arcane nor divine, but it's not as if arcane or divine casters can use power stones any better.

And even with substitutions, there are way more spells than there are powers, and there are a plethora of magic items whose prerequisites don't have any clear psionic equivalent.

Provided they cooperate with someone who has Scribe Scroll, a Psionic Artificer can fulfill all the other prerequisites for scroll creation by emulating a power (not a spell) and using the MiC rules.

As for there being more spells than there are powers - completely agreed, but the MiC rule is very broad. It only asks for "a power of similar flavor." (And if you really want to get cheesy, you can convert the entire wizard list into powers using a StP Erudite anyway, and emulate those directly.)



That's the kind of extremely dodgy interpretation that leads to "Hey, I'm a human, I'll replace my racial bonus feat too and get all three ACFs!"

I'm not saying I would use that ruling myself. (In fact, I can't stand the whole "Magic Mantle = super-transparency" ruling at all.) I'm merely saying that regardless of how you feel about it, the fact is that the Erudite class gives two bonus feats at 1st-level instead of the Psion's one. The OP asked where these "T0" judgments came from, so I was providing the reasoning behind them - I'm not the one who came up with them.

[Crichton]

That's the kind of extremely dodgy interpretation that leads to "Hey, I'm a human, I'll replace my racial bonus feat too and get all three ACFs!"

Yeah, I'm with Psyren here. The text says "Replaces: You lose your 1st-level bonus feat." While it might be a dodgy interpretation to allow racial bonus feats, as you joke, the text would technically support that. What's not dodgy, in any way, is that the Erudite gets two 1st level bonus feats.



Psicrystal: At 1st level, an erudite gains Psicrystal Affinity (EPH 49) as a bonus feat.
Bonus Feats: An erudite gains a bonus feat at 1st level, 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level.
(emphasis mine)

You can houserule that if you'd like, by limiting the number of ACFs a character can take at any particular level, but that's a houserule, not what the text says.