Supermount Build Help?

[tstewt1921]

LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track (prereq for Devoted Tracker)
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery (prereq for Halfling Outrider)
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider


So I found this build, and this type of character is something I've really wanted to play for a while.

So with a super mount build, the animal does most of the work, damage wise obviously. So when I charge in, I do damage with whatever I'm doing then does my mount or whatever I'm riding get attacks as well. It seems like I'm riding the mount while shooting a bow/crossbow of sorts.

Basically what I'm asking, is how does this build work combat wise? What should I be looking at doing for it to work properly, again I found this build? On a previous post on here, are there any tweeks to make to this? I'm new to exactly how this would be played properly.

Edit: Also, confused on my companion, is my paladin mount my companion that beastmaster gives or do I have 2 companions from the build?

[arkangel111]

I highly suggest no. I was in a group with one of these. in your typical dungeon you'll take up too much space, constantly needing to hit and disengage. between that and the damage we had 4 players literally doing nothing for an entire session, while one guy took care of combat. I actually would roll initiative and sit on the ground in character while I wandered the store IRL. 3 out of 4 of us refused to play at the table with him in the future, and my wife, our 4th, decided dnd was not for her and it took me 2 years to get her to try again.
maybe in a game like kingmaker it would be tolerable, but any dungeon and its too much to expect your entire party to cater to your playstyle.

[tstewt1921]

I highly suggest no. I was in a group with one of these. in your typical dungeon you'll take up too much space, constantly needing to hit and disengage. between that and the damage we had 4 players literally doing nothing for an entire session, while one guy took care of combat. I actually would roll initiative and sit on the ground in character while I wandered the store IRL. 3 out of 4 of us refused to play at the table with him in the future, and my wife, our 4th, decided dnd was not for her and it took me 2 years to get her to try again.
maybe in a game like kingmaker it would be tolerable, but any dungeon and its too much to expect your entire party to cater to your playstyle.

I get it's broken, I just wanna know how it should be played properly, not if I should play it or not....

Sorry to sound like a ****.

[tstewt1921]

I figured it out, this thread can die or close or whatever it needs to do.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by tstewt1921
I figured it out....

What did you figure out?

Just because someone else had a bad experience with a similar build doesn't mean this one has no value. I'd be interested to know what your insight was.

[arkangel111]

well to play it properly you'll need a group setup with you in mind. hit and run tactics are not something most groups play with in my experience. and any ranged attacker doesn't want his meat shield leaving the frontline.
rules-wise it really depends on your GMs ruling on mounts. some make intelligent mounts take their own initiative (essentially giving you disadvantage on initiative), some make you spend your movement to control the mount. some will allow you a full attack and the mount uses it's own actions.
I think raw your movement is it's move action. essentially giving you 1 move action and 2 attack actions, or one combined charge, with 2 separate attacks at the end (more with pounce for it).
Some GMs will let you count high ground on a mount while others say no (especially when halflings are involved).
keep in mind after a few encounters the GM WILL attack your mount, make sure you're capable without a mount.
a lot of things are highly dependent on GM, I'd check his rules first, and expect things to change when he sees your wrecking his group. if it were me I'd just assume all rulings against me and design the character with that in mind.

[liquidformat]

I highly suggest no. I was in a group with one of these. in your typical dungeon you'll take up too much space, constantly needing to hit and disengage. between that and the damage we had 4 players literally doing nothing for an entire session, while one guy took care of combat. I actually would roll initiative and sit on the ground in character while I wandered the store IRL. 3 out of 4 of us refused to play at the table with him in the future, and my wife, our 4th, decided dnd was not for her and it took me 2 years to get her to try again.
maybe in a game like kingmaker it would be tolerable, but any dungeon and its too much to expect your entire party to cater to your playstyle.

Honestly I think this is a pretty extreme example that doesn't hold much baring and is probably more of a reflection of said player than the ubermount build. In general I agree that mounted characters suck in a traditional dungeon crawl, since you can go entire dungeons without being able to use your mount. However, I have been in many games with players who have mounted builds with no real issues beyond reduced capabilities when we are indoors and other places not large mount friendly.

As for the halfling ubermount build I have found it is the exception to the rule as long as you always have a medium sized mount. Yes you are going to deal the most damage when you charge, that is true of many mundane builds, such as swift hunters, and chargers so saying ubermount is inherently bad is just a bit silly and ignorant. In general riding dog is considered a good choice as a mount since it takes no penalty to have one. However, anything with pounce is better, and anything with pounce + alternate movement like climbing and flying is even more so.

Even though the halfling outrider tries to push you towards mounted archery don't do it, it is a worthless trap that is really only worth while with huge or larger mounts where you can't reach the target while mounted anyway. In general with a leopard or deinonychus mount you are better off taking advantage of Defensive riding and letting your ubermount pounce the first round rather than trying to use one attack with a lance. Then both you and your mount dish out damage in the next rounds.

The whole point of ubermount build is you have a mount that can quite possibly be higher leveled than you, you should be taking advantage of that to do as much damage as possible. Done right you can be taking out an enemy every round with a charge.

[Twurps]

All you have here is a build that allows you to gain the benefits of a mount and an animal companion on the same creature. That's all.
All that is kind-off set in stone is that your mount will be the highlight of your build. (I mean: you are sinking 20 levels mainly in having a cool and powerfull mount)
How this 'should be played' is entirely up to you. After prereqs, you have a few spare feats, you can use these for archery, charging, or something completely different. All up to you.
More importantly: you have a free choice (within the mount-selection rules off course) of mount, and therefore of things like movement mode, and power level.


I highly suggest no. I was in a group with one of these. in your typical dungeon you'll take up too much space, constantly needing to hit and disengage. between that and the damage we had 4 players literally doing nothing for an entire session, while one guy took care of combat. I actually would roll initiative and sit on the ground in character while I wandered the store IRL. 3 out of 4 of us refused to play at the table with him in the future, and my wife, our 4th, decided dnd was not for her and it took me 2 years to get her to try again.
maybe in a game like kingmaker it would be tolerable, but any dungeon and its too much to expect your entire party to cater to your playstyle.

So Arkangel had a bad d&d experience. Don't let that get in the way here. It had very little to do with this build per se, more with a vast power difference in his group (combined with a couple of other problems). you can have an equally bad experience with just about any build. What you can learn from this (if you didn't already know) is that most people enjoy groups where players have a similar powerlevel/contribution.

Lucky for you: this type of build can be used to achieve a wide variety of power. If you go archery with a riding dog, you certainly won't be breaking the game. If you go charger build with a pouncing creature, that's a bit higher up the power scale. And if you search hard enough I'm sure you'll be able to find some OP monster you can use which dwarfs the regular pouncer.


I get it's broken, .....
I have to disagree. I mean for the first 5 levels, you're a paladin. Not the most OP class. you don't have a mount (at least not the class feature one) and you're a halfling who's using his feats for prereq's that won't really do anything untill level6. So not a melee brute in any way, and you don't have anything else going for you either.
At level 5 you get the mount, and at level 6 the first (very small) boost to your mount finally kicks in. The mount will be very similar to a regular mount, so nowhere near gamebreaking. And you are still a small dude, with full BAB. That's it. (build resources are still all being spent on the mount)
Now from this point going forward is where the 'crazyness' starts to happen, and your mount starts to become powerfull. However: this is also the point where the casters with their exponential power curve usually start to outshine any melee types anyway. so by this time you may well need all the power you can get.

So find a power level that suits your group, and a playstyle that both you and your group will enjoy. All will be fine, and this can be a fun build to play.

[tstewt1921]

What did you figure out?

Just because someone else had a bad experience with a similar build doesn't mean this one has no value. I'd be interested to know what your insight was.


I basically just took the build level by level, leveled both myself and animal companion and basically going to use it like a hunter in wow, with a lot of versatility, I'm going to carry several weapons, not be great with any of them and use my animal for flanking or if it's something we don't want to get close to hit and run, or if it's something I can do better in range then I'll use a bow, just gonna try and adapt to multiple situations depending on what's going on and what the group may need at the time.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The biggest problem I'm seeing is that this is only half the build. The other half is the mount. What creature is it? What combat style will it use?

I've always thought that if I were going super mount, I'd use an ape and give him arms and armor; a shining, golden simian with a massive blade cleaving through my foes while I buff him up with wands and maybe poke a few baddies with a lance over his shoulder.