How would you do "First Blood"?

[Trask]

In a scenario where a PC was going to have a duel with a character, but this duel was not to be to do the death and would instead be to "first blood" how would you decide what that was? My immediate thought was for first blood to be the first character hit, but I think thats unsatisfying and also mucks with the whole abstractness of hitpoints (but frankly the whole concept of drawing first blood does that).

Maybe to half hp? A third hp? Or to unconsciousness? But that seems a bit brutal and unsporting, especially if the duel is supposed to be for sport.

[Rynjin]

First strike works just fine. The one with the quicker reflexes (i.e. the one that rolls the better Initiative) gets the first chance to strike. The only real houserule I'd make for this scenario is the guy going second does not get the Flatfooted condition (so they keep Dex to AC).

This scenario is where combat options like Fighting Defensively and Feats like Combat Expertise have their niche use, where all that matters is you eventually get ONE hit, rather than consistently get hits in.

[Xihirli]

First strike works just fine. The one with the quicker reflexes (i.e. the one that rolls the better Initiative) gets the first chance to strike. The only real houserule I'd make for this scenario is the guy going second does not get the Flatfooted condition (so they keep Dex to AC).

This scenario is where combat options like Fighting Defensively and Feats like Combat Expertise have their niche use, where all that matters is you eventually get ONE hit, rather than consistently get hits in.

I think you're answering the wrong edition.

[Aussiehams]

Half HP seems about right to me.

[Zhorn]

I'd agree with taking a page out of prior editions, and use the 'bloodied' ruling as a good benchmark.
If you're at or below 50% of you max hp, you're considered bloodied.

[JackPhoenix]

PHB specifically mentions creatures start showing signs of injure when under 50% of their max HP.
Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious.

[BobZan]

50% would be less frustrating IMO

[Zanthy1]

Pretty much everyone else already said it but 50% health is a great benchmark. Alternatively, you could say first person to deal X amount of damage (just make sure its not all someones HP)

[Ventruenox]

And here I clicked on the thread thinking it was going to be asking how to do a Sylvester Stallone movie plot in 5E.

[BreaktheStatue]

And here I clicked on the thread thinking it was going to be asking how to do a Sylvester Stallone movie plot in 5E.

Thank you! I was sitting here thinking, "Uhhh, I don't know, probably some sort of Ranger or Scout Rogue, soldier background..."

[WeaselGuy]

7 pounds of pressure is all that's required to break skin. Takes a little more than that to go through clothing. If it's an honorable duel, I would assume that nobody is wearing armor, and therefore the first person to land a hit, with an edged weapon of any sort, would be the first to draw blood. It doesn't take much, and your dexterity would allow for improved initiative, and for your ability to dodge. This is a speed challenge, not a strength one.

If the fight is done with armor being worn, then each duelist's AC would reflect that, making it harder to land a telling blow.

If you want to get into the details of honorable combat, dueling, or historical sword fighting, I can continue, but if I were the DM, I'd give both combatants a rapier or a longsword, have them take off all their armor (or have them wear the same armor, maybe a chain shirt?), and then roll initiative. No magic of any sort allowed, and first one to land a hit wins.

[JackPhoenix]

7 pounds of pressure is all that's required to break skin. Takes a little more than that to go through clothing. If it's an honorable duel, I would assume that nobody is wearing armor, and therefore the first person to land a hit, with an edged weapon of any sort, would be the first to draw blood. It doesn't take much, and your dexterity would allow for improved initiative, and for your ability to dodge. This is a speed challenge, not a strength one.

If the fight is done with armor being worn, then each duelist's AC would reflect that, making it harder to land a telling blow.

If you want to get into the details of honorable combat, dueling, or historical sword fighting, I can continue, but if I were the DM, I'd give both combatants a rapier or a longsword, have them take off all their armor (or have them wear the same armor, maybe a chain shirt?), and then roll initiative. No magic of any sort allowed, and first one to land a hit wins.

HP aren't just meat. Combat is an abstraction and "hit" in game mechanics doesn't necessarily represent actual, physical contact.

[Prince Vine]

HP aren't just meat. Combat is an abstraction and "hit" in game mechanics doesn't necessarily represent actual, physical contact.

In the last game I ran I narrated 75% of hits as blows that you had had to exert yourself hard to get out of the way of or block.

It was more of a stamina bar than health, with only a few hits (at the middle and end) really being solid blows.

[Trask]

I think I will go with the page from 4th Edition's book and consider half hp to be the point where blood is drawn. Thanks all.

[WeaselGuy]

HP aren't just meat. Combat is an abstraction and "hit" in game mechanics doesn't necessarily represent actual, physical contact.

If I'm standing dead still (AC 10), and you've never picked a sword up in your life (+0 to hit), then you've got about a 50% chance of hitting me, assuming you're standing just within measure. Add some armor, a shield, or me just moving around, and it becomes increasingly more difficult to hit me (increased AC). If you have natural athletic ability, or start training, it becomes easier to hit me (increased to hit modifier). If you do manage to hit me, and we're unarmored, then the force of the blow is generally enough to break skin, thereby affording you "first blood". Keep in mind, not every "miss" (hit roll does not exceed AC) is you just whiffing with the sword. Some of those (especially when it meets my AC) is the blade bouncing off my armor, or me parrying the blow with my own sword.

I stand by my interpretation that first to hit equates to first blood, but that's just me, and my rationale, based on 15 years of D&D combined with 6 years of historical sword fighting. DM's game, DM's rules.

[Cicciograna]

I don't know if it's still useful, but I would take a higher threshold than 50% HP. After all, all the pointers seem to hint that when you're at half your HP total, you are kind of bruised and evidently worm from the fight, which doesn't strike me compatible with "first blood".

I'd make more of 66% or even 75% of HP total, figuring that in the abstraction of HP that's when you start suffering from the first effects from the combat.

Be aware, though, that for low level characters these various thresholds could in fact be just a handful of HP apart.

[VonKaiserstein]

What you may want to do is figure out a save system for a duelist to choose to hide their wound. The reason duelists tended to wear blouses and loose fitting, dark shirts once dueling to first blood came into fashion was specifically to avoid showing blood upon first wound.

Perhaps give it a dexterity check, DC of the cumulative damage done, to avoid showing the wound or letting the blood leak out.

I'd probably give disadvantage if the blow came from slashing, advantage if it was bludgeoning, and regular if it was piercing.

Or let them use charisma to play it off as a minor wound.

[RSP]

Thank you! I was sitting here thinking, "Uhhh, I don't know, probably some sort of Ranger or Scout Rogue, soldier background..."

I was going to say Barbarian to account for Unarmored Defense and John Rambo’s Rage: “Murdock, I’m coming for YOU!”

This should clearly be its own thread though...

[Rynjin]

I think you're answering the wrong edition.

...Whoops, my bad.

Does 5e really not have those options? I could have sworn Fighting Defensively was still a thing at least.