If you cast this spell in the same area every day for a year...

[BreaktheStatue]

I'll preface this by saying, I strongly suspect the answer is, "Talk with your DM, as this will probably need to be something simulated through extended 'downtown activities, because you're basically creating a lair for the party.'"

My question is this: has anyone used, or can anyone imagine a plausible way to use, spells like Druid Grove, Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, etc., where you cast the same spell every day on the same spot for a year (to make it permanent), that *doesn't* involve asking the DM, "Yo, can we fast forward a year so my druid can make this sweet base of operations for the crew?"

Again, I strongly suspect the answer, but I figured I'd appeal to the collective creativity and experience of the forum.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Not all campaigns happen real fast. There are significant numbers who have large time-skips between adventures. Months, seasons, possibly years.

But I think a lot of that is to provide plausible justification for why you might find such things already in existence in the world. That is, mostly for world-building rather than active play.

[NorthernPhoenix]

But I think a lot of that is to provide plausible justification for why you might find such things already in existence in the world. That is, mostly for world-building rather than active play.

That seems to be 5e trying to have it both ways with regards to simulation, since you can completely RAI stat up an NPC with the "Instant Druid Grove" npc-power.

[Man_Over_Game]

An (albeit expensive) solution is to have Word of Recall prepared regularly. Teleport you and a group of friends to any location that you say is your sanctuary. That way, you can even do missions or have an escape plan for when things go FUBAR in a dungeon.

Enchant your sanctuary with Hallow, make a Homunculus to stay at home to be a 24-hour watchdog camera that never sleeps, put a Teleportation circle in the center of your Sanctuary and then surround it with four Forbiddance circles with touching edges. Protect your forest/underground backdoor with Druid Grove, making sure to have your Homunculus and your 4 tree guardians to be immune to the effects. Cover the entire base with Guards and Wards.

Expensive? Hell yeah, but good luck trying to take down something of that level. As a DM, I'd have a lot of fun trying to siege something like that occasionally just so that the players feel rewarded for their investment.

[Vogie]

When it comes to making a home base, if this is something the PCs are interested in, the reward from a quest may just be an NPC wizard hanging out in their stronghold. They'll get free access to identify, and a private sanctum to return to. After a year, the wizard goes on his merry way, but the sanctum remains.

[Willie the Duck]

That seems to be 5e trying to have it both ways with regards to simulation, since you can completely RAI stat up an NPC with the "Instant Druid Grove" npc-power.

I wouldn't call it having it both ways, so much as having dual purpose (effective for world building, yet at the same time balanced for regular play) spells.

[Rukelnikov]

Depends on the campaign mostly, a couple years ago we played one where we were ruling a kingdom basically, all epics, after last campaign we didn't have much left to do character-wise, save for rule our kingdom, events would happen and every couple years or so there would be a threat that required us to intervene, it must have been like... 30 sessions or so, and that was 15-20 years in game.

We did many things of the sort.

[Orc_Lord]

Like others have said, in some games there are time skips. Even in that situation you still need to talk to the DM. It's not a thing you can sneak by the DM.

I would tell him before the game, a week or more in advance because if he likes the idea, and you have time to spare in getting he could do something amazing with it.

[MaxWilson]

Not all campaigns happen real fast. There are significant numbers who have large time-skips between adventures. Months, seasons, possibly years.

But I think a lot of that is to provide plausible justification for why you might find such things already in existence in the world. That is, mostly for world-building rather than active play.

And yet a single Dispel Magic is enough to bring down a year's worth of effort, unless the DM rewrites the Dispel Magic rules.

[BreaktheStatue]

And yet a single Dispel Magic is enough to bring down a year's worth of effort, unless the DM rewrites the Dispel Magic rules.

That's a good point. But given how much DM buy-in the whole druid grove/home base/sanctuary thing would probably require, I think the DM would have to be seriously (and not entertainingly) sadistic to first sign-off on the idea, and then unravel it in the most ridiculous way possible.

[MaxWilson]

That's a good point. But given how much DM buy-in the whole druid grove/home base/sanctuary thing would probably require, I think the DM would have to be seriously (and not entertainingly) sadistic to first sign-off on the idea, and then unravel it in the most ridiculous way possible.

I was actually thinking more of the PCs unravelling the worldbuilding.

I might as well mention my houserule here: Dispel Magic level N requires an ability check to dispel spells of level N or lower, and is totally unable to dispel spells of higher level. So an upcast, permanent Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum VIII is totally immune to Dispel Magic from Glabrezus/Nycaloths/regular low-level wizards, because only Dispel Magic VIII is able to potentially dispel it.

I leave Counterspell alone though (automatic success up to level N, ability check to dispel spells of higher level, just like the PHB says) on the theory that magic is easier to mess with while it is still being created.

[BreaktheStatue]

I was actually thinking more of the PCs unravelling the worldbuilding.

I might as well mention my houserule here: Dispel Magic level N requires an ability check to dispel spells of level N or lower, and is totally unable to dispel spells of higher level. So an upcast, permanent Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum VIII is totally immune to Dispel Magic from Glabrezus/Nycaloths/regular low-level wizards, because only Dispel Magic VIII is able to potentially dispel it.

I leave Counterspell alone though (automatic success up to level N, ability check to dispel spells of higher level, just like the PHB says) on the theory that magic is easier to mess with while it is still being created.

That seems like a pretty fair rule. I never really thought about it before, but Dispel Magic as-is seems pretty strongly prejudiced in favor of low-level casters. Given a few minutes, two or three spell slots, and even just mediocre rolling, a Level 5 PC/creature could dispel almost anything (which seems dumb).

[Chronos]

There's a question: If you cast a 5th-level Teleportation Circle 364 days in a row, and then on the 365th day cast it at 9th level, what level is the resulting permanent circle? Or what if the high-level casting is on the first day instead of the last? Or what if it's high-level half the time, and low-level the other half?

[Azgeroth]

i think it would be better to rule that Dispel Magic cast once on a permenant enchantment (such as the ones mentioned) only supresses the effect. and it would take multiple castings over several days to completely dispel the enchantment.

teleportations in paticular though, can just be scratched out, or physically damaged to stop there operation. rules on how to fix magic circles i think would be a good idea...

i'm also in agreement that it is totally DM and campaign dependant on if a player could ever cast one of these spells, every day, for a year.. even if you can get around the down time, or travel requirements, they each come with a pretty hefty GP cost.

if your DM allows it, it would make sense that the majority of teleportation circles are actually created, logged, and distributed by either a single, or collection of organisations, that with the proper credentials you could simply purchase a circle, have it magically transported to the desired location and installed over the course of a week.

that cuts down the time requirement massively, and so more conducive to games lacking in down time, or set out over a relatively short time span.

as for the druid grove, i would imagine those would have to be approved by the various circles, otherwise there would be druid groves everywhere, and once a circle of druids decides its time to build a new grove, they can spread the work between them, so your druid could have other druids come and perform that ritual on certain days, again spreading the load.. you'll need some DM hanf waivery to shorten the time span.. magic seeds! gifted from the sentient tree of another grove..

guards & wards, MPS, however would best be deployed through some device, that could then be installed, much as the teleportation circle..

this is a high magic world however, so your DM might say these things are not possible because the organisations don't exist. or you simply don't have access to them yet.

[MoiMagnus]

a Level 5 PC/creature could dispel almost anything (which seems dumb).

Not so dump. But clearly in contradiction with the standard idea that peoples have of a D&D universe.

A universe in which even low level magic users are able to counter and dispel high level magic is much more stable (a high level wizard can be effectively arrested or killed by the guard, or an army), and probably far more medieval-fantastic than any usual D&D setting.

The only dump things is that there are a lot of magical effects that cannot be dispel because they aren't spells. (Like innate ability from magical monsters, magical objects, ...). And that makes this weird state of "magic is easy to dispel, except when it's impossible".

[Sigreid]

I'm personally considering a house rule for my campaign that once a magical effect is made permanent it can't be dispelled, though the effect could be temporarily supressed.

[Vogie]

I'm personally considering a house rule for my campaign that once a magical effect is made permanent it can't be dispelled, though the effect could be temporarily supressed.

That's probably wise.

Because it becomes permanent after casting for a year, one could make the case that a single dispel effect will last for a single day, and it can only be fully dispelled after being dispelled every day for a year.