Some help with a church-assassin concept?

[Xerinos]

Hello 5e section of the playground! I've played mostly 3.5/3.p, though I've played a few sessions in 5e as well, and was here looking for some feedback and advice about a new character for a new campaign.

The campaign is set in the DM's homebrew world consisting of flying islands, though I know little more than that right now. Several things are open to change or discussion as the setting is, of course, homebrew.

My characters in the past have been pretty distinct from one another, I feel. I played a Sacred Fist that used sleeves of many garments to act like a power ranger, a gnome druid born from a tree and a squirrel, an unwitting killer turned repentant, your stereotypical dwarf, and a wizard who looked too much into healing magic for her own good. Each of them were unique to build, and to play, both in and out of combat.

My new character is so far based on a group of assassins from the pathfinder setting known as the Red Mantis. They worship a kind of deific assassin, the gods' killer, who receives orders from nowhere to kill those seen as a threat to the gods. The Red Mantis Assassins are the most feared assassins of that world, seemingly unstoppable once a target has been declared, with the single rule being that they will never kill a rightful king, as their assassin demigod will never kill a rightful deity.

Since the campaign is going to be in 5e, I'm working on how best to set out with this idea. Currently, the campaign is set to start at level 1, and I've no idea how far it's gonna go. My first option was rogue, though I don't know if there would be anything more fitting. Taking the Acolyte background, she would be played as a kind of follow-orders church-sanctioned assassin kind of character. While maybe not the best fit for a regular party, the DM has said upfront that the party isn't necessarily 'good-aligned'.

So my question is kind of two-fold.
One) Is anything more fitting than a simple Rogue/Acolyte for a kind of Red Mantis Assassin character? What subclass would you recommend for a 'get into anywhere, take out your target' girl? Is the obvious choice of Assassin that good of a fit?
and Two) As a general issue I've had in the few sessions of 5e that I've played, I have a bit of trouble staying engaged. Both in and out of combat, I don't feel like I have a lot to do or decide when it comes to the game, and does anyone have advice in terms of addressing how to approach the game, or approach the situations I'm given in the game coming from an older edition?

[BreaktheStatue]

I always thought Bard (any subclass, depending on how you wanted to do it), would make a really good spy/infiltrator/assassin. Your spell list and skills are good for it, and you can use Magical Secrets to get spells like Pass Without a Trace that aren't on your list, but useful.

I don't know if you play video games, but Leliana and the Orlesian bards from Dragon Age might serve as a sort of inspiration.

[Rukelnikov]

So my question is kind of two-fold.
One) Is anything more fitting than a simple Rogue/Acolyte for a kind of Red Mantis Assassin character? What subclass would you recommend for a 'get into anywhere, take out your target' girl? Is the obvious choice of Assassin that good of a fit?

Definitely, but if you wanna give it a splash of divinity, 2 lvls of Cleric of the Grave will allow you to "mark another creature's life force for termination" giving it vulnerability to the next attack (double damage). That will help you to do your sacred duty, while giving you some divine splash.


Two) As a general issue I've had in the few sessions of 5e that I've played, I have a bit of trouble staying engaged. Both in and out of combat, I don't feel like I have a lot to do or decide when it comes to the game, and does anyone have advice in terms of addressing how to approach the game, or approach the situations I'm given in the game coming from an older edition?

Hmm I don't get what you mean, I came to 5e from 3.x, but the "out of combat" game feels pretty much the same to me, you've got skills to use, the same attributes as ever... What do you mean by "I don't feel like I have a lot to do"?

[Malifice]

I dont know why, but I kind of picture a Rogue Assasin plus a splash of Ranger or Fighter for TWF and scimitar proficiency (saw tooth saber, however personally I would simply refluff rapiers as saw tooth Sabres and take the dual weilder feat).

For their more supernatural abilities, some caster levels and or monk levels (kensai - fluffing your sawtooth Sabres [rapiers] as monk weapons) seem appropriate.

Stun locking via monk and then wailing on them with the swords is very in line with the PF PRC.

[Corran]

and Two) As a general issue I've had in the few sessions of 5e that I've played, I have a bit of trouble staying engaged. Both in and out of combat, I don't feel like I have a lot to do or decide when it comes to the game, and does anyone have advice in terms of addressing how to approach the game, or approach the situations I'm given in the game coming from an older edition?
Multiclassing spices things up a bit (though usually at the cost of overall efficiency IMO).
I'd go assassin for rogue archetype. Getting a few levels in caster (divine soul sorcerer perhaps) for a couple of useful spells like invisibility, alter self, etc, can help a lot with assassinating and general roguish goodness. A build I quite enjoyed some years back was paladin 2/ rogue 3/ sorcerer 10 (was planning for more sorcerer levels but the campaign ended at 15). The build has its issues, but the assassination damage is good, and the thing I enjoyed best was the hitman-like utility I was provided by the spells. Rogue 3/ hexblade X now probably accomplishes more or less the same things a little better now, so maybe look at that assuming you don't mind completely reflavouring the hexblade into something that fits the religious theme. Having access to spells and playing a charismatic character will hopefully be enough to keep you engaged.

ps: Lucky and alert are great feats for assassins.

[Vogie]

So my question is kind of two-fold.
One) Is anything more fitting than a simple Rogue/Acolyte for a kind of Red Mantis Assassin character? What subclass would you recommend for a 'get into anywhere, take out your target' girl? Is the obvious choice of Assassin that good of a fit?
and Two) As a general issue I've had in the few sessions of 5e that I've played, I have a bit of trouble staying engaged. Both in and out of combat, I don't feel like I have a lot to do or decide when it comes to the game, and does anyone have advice in terms of addressing how to approach the game, or approach the situations I'm given in the game coming from an older edition?

I would start actually with 2 levels of warlock (3 if you're going blade pact). The deity acts as your patron, and you'd refluff the GOO, Archfey or Celestial pact for it, depending if you want Telepathy, Healing, or a Mass Charm/Mass Fear effect. You'd be picking up Mask of Many Faces and Misty Visions to augment your stealth - allowing you to disguise yourself as anyone, or anything, completely at-will.

Then you'd go into a Rogue, probably Assassin or Inquisitive, but Swashbuckler would also work as you're focused on single-target.

Actually, to get higher initiative bonus, I'd go Rogue 1/ Warlock 2 / Rogue X.


As for staying engaged, that has to do with interacting with the DM and other players. Having a strong "Yes, And..." attitude and locking social things into ability checks is the best way to get along through the world.

[jaappleton]

I’m going to go with the obvious answer that nobody has stated yet:

Vengeance Paladin.

You’re coming from 3.X, and I don’t mean to stereotype when i say this, but many people coming to 5E from other editions still believe Paladins have to adhere to certain alignments. They tossed that out the window with 5E.

You’ve got your Devotion Paladin that’s the classic trope, they’re still there. But Vengeance?

Vengeance Paladins are those sent to destroy enemies. The ends justify the means. Where as Devotion are the shields to protect the people, Vengeance is the sword that strikes enemies down.

You get Vow on Enmity to get Advantage on every attack, you get healing to keep yourself upright, you can burn spell slots to Smite for some nova damage, and (since it seems you’d prefer to be the stealthy type), you can actually build perfectly viable Dexterity based Paladins now. At lv6 you get +Cha Mod to all your saving throws to help fend off enemy spells and attacks, too.

As a Vengeance Paladin, you get all sorts of spells designed specifically to hunt people down and lay the hurt on them.

Can’t go wrong with this one.

[HoodedHero007]

I would start actually with 2 levels of warlock (3 if you're going blade pact). The deity acts as your patron, and you'd refluff the GOO, Archfey or Celestial pact for it, depending if you want Telepathy, Healing, or a Mass Charm/Mass Fear effect. You'd be picking up Mask of Many Faces and Misty Visions to augment your stealth - allowing you to disguise yourself as anyone, or anything, completely at-will.

Then you'd go into a Rogue, probably Assassin or Inquisitive, but Swashbuckler would also work as you're focused on single-target.

Actually, to get higher initiative bonus, I'd go Rogue 1/ Warlock 2 / Rogue X.


As for staying engaged, that has to do with interacting with the DM and other players. Having a strong "Yes, And..." attitude and locking social things into ability checks is the best way to get along through the world.

As an alternative to those, a Hexblade could also work. Maybe going up to 3rd level Warlock for the Blade Pact. Combine that with Shadow Blade, and Shield from something like Magic Initiate, you can basically become Kotomine Kirei. Maybe take another 3 levels in Vengeance Paladin to go even further.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hello 5e section of the playground! I've played mostly 3.5/3.p, though I've played a few sessions in 5e as well, and was here looking for some feedback and advice about a new character for a new campaign.

The campaign is set in the DM's homebrew world consisting of flying islands, though I know little more than that right now. Several things are open to change or discussion as the setting is, of course, homebrew.

My characters in the past have been pretty distinct from one another, I feel. I played a Sacred Fist that used sleeves of many garments to act like a power ranger, a gnome druid born from a tree and a squirrel, an unwitting killer turned repentant, your stereotypical dwarf, and a wizard who looked too much into healing magic for her own good. Each of them were unique to build, and to play, both in and out of combat.

My new character is so far based on a group of assassins from the pathfinder setting known as the Red Mantis. They worship a kind of deific assassin, the gods' killer, who receives orders from nowhere to kill those seen as a threat to the gods. The Red Mantis Assassins are the most feared assassins of that world, seemingly unstoppable once a target has been declared, with the single rule being that they will never kill a rightful king, as their assassin demigod will never kill a rightful deity.

Since the campaign is going to be in 5e, I'm working on how best to set out with this idea. Currently, the campaign is set to start at level 1, and I've no idea how far it's gonna go. My first option was rogue, though I don't know if there would be anything more fitting. Taking the Acolyte background, she would be played as a kind of follow-orders church-sanctioned assassin kind of character. While maybe not the best fit for a regular party, the DM has said upfront that the party isn't necessarily 'good-aligned'.

So my question is kind of two-fold.
One) Is anything more fitting than a simple Rogue/Acolyte for a kind of Red Mantis Assassin character? What subclass would you recommend for a 'get into anywhere, take out your target' girl? Is the obvious choice of Assassin that good of a fit?
and Two) As a general issue I've had in the few sessions of 5e that I've played, I have a bit of trouble staying engaged. Both in and out of combat, I don't feel like I have a lot to do or decide when it comes to the game, and does anyone have advice in terms of addressing how to approach the game, or approach the situations I'm given in the game coming from an older edition?

In 4th edition, there was a class that was exactly what you're describing, called the Avenger. It was a mobility-based melee combatant that wore light armor, had two or one large weapon, cursed enemies to take massive damage from the Avenger if the enemy and the Avenger weren't adjacent to their respective allies. It was literally described as the zealot assassin of a church.

It had two builds: One for forcefully moving your target away from the enemy team, or just causing a ton of AoE effects that impact anyone near your Vow of Enmity target (so that enemies are quickly inclined to stay away from their friend).

Its spellcasting used Charisma.

-----------------

In 5th edition they took the Avenger, tacked on Heavy Armor, and made it into the Vengeance Paladin.

Alternatively, the Hexblade Warlock does have a possible invocation that allows you to teleport to someone afflicted by your curse, and can get a different invocation (as early as level 2) that lets you look like anyone. Perhaps the Church made a deal with the Shadowfel entity, so while your allegiance is with the church, you obey the actions of the patron as part of the deal.

[Xerinos]

Cleric of the Grave dip

Bard

Rogue Assassin plus a splash of Ranger/Fighter or Monk.

Rogue Assassin plus Divine Soul Sorcerer. Paladin/Rogue/Sorcerer. Rogue/Hexblade

Warlock/Rogue Assassin/Inquitive/Swashbuckler

Vengeance Paladin.

Hexblade.

Don't wanna break down these excellent suggestions and explanations to just the classes themselves, but just to address them all at once, thank you so much! These were definitely some options I hadn't considered that all could really fit the playstyle I wanna do, so I'm probably gonna sit down with the DM sometime this week and talk about how I could fluff some of it once I've got a few that I'm leaning towards.



Hmm I don't get what you mean, I came to 5e from 3.x, but the "out of combat" game feels pretty much the same to me, you've got skills to use, the same attributes as ever... What do you mean by "I don't feel like I have a lot to do"?

I've talked about it with the DM a little bit, but I think some of it comes from more of the 'rules lite' feel of 5e that makes things a little less concrete. In 3.x, I've both played enough and read enough that I have a pretty good grasp of what is/isn't possible, what I can/can't do, what to do with time outside combat be it crafting or whatever. In 5e I feel like I've got the handle on what can be done in combat, although I'm still learning stuff about that too, but out of combat the only skills I've used have been knowledges whenever I ask the DM a question or perception when the DM asks.

It's also possible that, as mentioned above, it's just that the 3.x DM and the 5e DMs I've played with are different and I'm either not used to or don't like their styles as much yet. Their worlds have all been homebrewed which makes them feel a bit less filled and have a bit less to do, so it's more go to X, talk to Y, combat on the way or there, great, now come back and blah blah blah. The path to walk feels much more narrow so I feel like what I'm mostly doing is contributing in character dialogue and then fighting. So far in 5e I've played a Fighter, and a Cleric (tempest), and outside of combat in those campaigns they operated more or less the same.

[Man_Over_Game]

[...]

It's also possible that, as mentioned above, it's just that the 3.x DM and the 5e DMs I've played with are different and I'm either not used to or don't like their styles as much yet. Their worlds have all been homebrewed which makes them feel a bit less filled and have a bit less to do, so it's more go to X, talk to Y, combat on the way or there, great, now come back and blah blah blah. The path to walk feels much more narrow so I feel like what I'm mostly doing is contributing in character dialogue and then fighting. So far in 5e I've played a Fighter, and a Cleric (tempest), and outside of combat in those campaigns they operated more or less the same.

Well, to be fair, the classes you picked are literally "Enter Combat, Hit things" kind of characters. Even the Tempest Cleric doesn't really contribute to any meaningful banter despite being a full divine caster.

To try something new, consider grabbing Actor and two levels into Warlock (Hexblade) for Mask of Many Faces. Be literally anyone you want. Your DM will have to think on his feet rather than running his scripted world on autopilot.

Worst case scenario, you are a caster that has Shield, all weapons and some decent armor. From there, you can continue to invest into Hexblade, or you can easily multiclass into Bard for more stealth or subterfuge, Paladin for more melee combat, Sorcerer for more versatile magic, or more Warlock levels to sacrifice versatility for power.

[Rukelnikov]

I've talked about it with the DM a little bit, but I think some of it comes from more of the 'rules lite' feel of 5e that makes things a little less concrete. In 3.x, I've both played enough and read enough that I have a pretty good grasp of what is/isn't possible, what I can/can't do, what to do with time outside combat be it crafting or whatever. In 5e I feel like I've got the handle on what can be done in combat, although I'm still learning stuff about that too, but out of combat the only skills I've used have been knowledges whenever I ask the DM a question or perception when the DM asks.

It's also possible that, as mentioned above, it's just that the 3.x DM and the 5e DMs I've played with are different and I'm either not used to or don't like their styles as much yet. Their worlds have all been homebrewed which makes them feel a bit less filled and have a bit less to do, so it's more go to X, talk to Y, combat on the way or there, great, now come back and blah blah blah. The path to walk feels much more narrow so I feel like what I'm mostly doing is contributing in character dialogue and then fighting. So far in 5e I've played a Fighter, and a Cleric (tempest), and outside of combat in those campaigns they operated more or less the same.

It's probably the DM style thing, if you had been playing a lot with one DM and then changed to another with a different style, its not uncommon to feel a bit off-balance. Doesn't mean one is necesarilly better, sometimes its just a matter of habit and preference.

I get the feel though that you were looking for more "rulesy" stuff on what to do out of combat, is that it? In that case, if you have access to Xanathar's, there is a section called "Downtime revisited", its not very long (10 pages or less IIRC), and deals with crafting stuff, buying/selling, gathering info, making contacts, reputation in different strata (arenas, crime rings, upper society, etc.), check it, you may get some cool ideas to try with your divine assassin ;)

[Particle_Man]

Btw, If you ever decide to DM yourself, the DMG has some options for "ramping up" the complexity of rules to your tastes. I suppose if you find some you like you could lobby a DM to include them.

[Max_Killjoy]

Something to consider when choosing your build -- what kind of "assassin" is this character?

Do they strike from stealth, maneuvering in shadow and silence, killing the target when he's asleep or otherwise most vulnerable and then slipping away before the alarm goes up?

Do they strike from distance, like a fantasy-genre sniper, with arrow or spell?

Do they wait until the target can be challenged one-vs-one, and count on the righteousness of their cause and their skill with the blade to best target?

And that's just three MOs, any one of which would drastically affect what spin you want on the character build.

[SkipSandwich]

Personally, I'd prefer to use the Thief archetype if I were playing an assassin, I cannot over-emphasise how useful bonus action item use can be if you are creative.

Some examples;

Apply poison to a weapon or object
Throw a grappling hook
Start a fire
Use Theives tools to unlock a lock
Hammer a wedge into a doorframe to jam it shut
Use your Land Vehicle Proficency to send an unattended horse cart galloping off as a distraction
Throw a bola to restrain a target
Drink or Administer a potion
Throw an Acid Flask
Dose a drink with Sleep Potion
Ect.

Its just less, "Silent Killer" and more "License to Kill", where clever tool use and ingenuity gets you access to places you deffinately shouldn't have access to, from which you can wreak all manner of merry havoc either on the way to your target or as means of drawing them out of hiding.

It also has the side effect of giving you a lot more to DO outside of backstabs or on the way to/from said backstabs.

[Draconi Redfir]

look around to see if there's a 5th edition version of the Divine Agent (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/cartmanbeck-s-lab/multiclass-archetypes/divine-agent-cleric-rogue/), a Rogue / cleric hybrid class.

Or since this is a homebrew setting, you might be able to get away with working with the DM to make a custom conversion of the class to 5th edition.

[Grimmnist]

If you are open to doing homebrew, Kibblestasty actually came out with a "Purifier" Rogue subclass recently here (https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LUgSu5CiiNrmEW1M6Bt). It is a divine themed rogue with features such as doing radiant damage as their sneak attack, and in my opinion it is very well balanced for homebrew.

With regards with your second question about staying engaged, in combat it is fair to say you have fewer decisions as 5e is simplified from older versions. However, I think the simple nature of 5e is a big strength for out of combat, you can focus on roleplaying in an improv like environment without too many rules slowing you down or taking you out of character, my advice would be for you the player to ignore the rules out of combat until your DM says you need to roll or do something mechanical. Another possible issue could be with your DM/campaign for your previous sessions rather than the system itself, if they were running a very linear campaign there wouldn't be decisions regardless of system. Hope that helps, and I hope you enjoy the new campaign.

[Laserlight]

Well, to be fair, the classes you picked are literally "Enter Combat, Hit things" kind of characters. Even the Tempest Cleric doesn't really contribute to any meaningful banter despite being a full divine caster.

Well...We just finished CoS where my Tempest was the party Face. Mainly because none of the CHA builds wanted to, granted, but very effective nonetheless.

To OP: you don't necessarily need a skill or a spell. Just tell the DM what you're trying to do. My players who were previously mainly video gamers had a hard time with that at first, but in 5e, a DM is supposed to be able to cope with it. The only reason you can't be effective, in or out of combat, is if you can't think of anything to do.

[The Jack]

At first I was going to say monk, but then I was sold with the vengence paladin.

Also warlock is nice. Disguise self+eldritch blast, oh it's wonderful. You needn't arm yourself. Pact of the chain and have your invisible familiar deliver poisons.


Sounds like a very high fantasy setting, so I wouldn't care for rogue. Be bombastic.


Paladin-needs no poison, largely reliant on armour and close ranged attacks.
Monk-needs nothing, super mobile when things go wrong, bad socially.
Rogue-Obvious choice, reliant on weapons, nothing fabulous.
Warlock- does everything well.
Wizard- Hilarious assassin. Fireball the bedroom. Sorcerer is more social, but wizard versatility is golden. Put a skeleton under the bed, conjure demons! Kill targets in exceptionally over the top ways.



Also bugbears are fun.

[TheHighWayMan]

Since the campaign is going to be in 5e, I'm working on how best to set out with this idea. Currently, the campaign is set to start at level 1, and I've no idea how far it's gonna go. My first option was rogue, though I don't know if there would be anything more fitting. Taking the Acolyte background, she would be played as a kind of follow-orders church-sanctioned assassin kind of character. While maybe not the best fit for a regular party, the DM has said upfront that the party isn't necessarily 'good-aligned'.

So my question is kind of two-fold.
One) Is anything more fitting than a simple Rogue/Acolyte for a kind of Red Mantis Assassin character? What subclass would you recommend for a 'get into anywhere, take out your target' girl? Is the obvious choice of Assassin that good of a fit?


Personally I have always thought that a Death Domain Cleric (probably Dex Build) could make a good sort of Church Assassin - someone of specialises in the dealing of Death (Martial weapons + Reaper + the spell list) all the while keeping with a religious bent. Also considering assassinations are not really 'Good' it sort of fits better than the Grave Domain for an assassin.

[Max_Killjoy]

At first I was going to say monk, but then I was sold with the vengence paladin.

Also warlock is nice. Disguise self+eldritch blast, oh it's wonderful. You needn't arm yourself. Pact of the chain and have your invisible familiar deliver poisons.


Sounds like a very high fantasy setting, so I wouldn't care for rogue. Be bombastic.


Paladin-needs no poison, largely reliant on armour and close ranged attacks.
Monk-needs nothing, super mobile when things go wrong, bad socially.
Rogue-Obvious choice, reliant on weapons, nothing fabulous.
Warlock- does everything well.
Wizard- Hilarious assassin. Fireball the bedroom. Sorcerer is more social, but wizard versatility is golden. Put a skeleton under the bed, conjure demons! Kill targets in exceptionally over the top ways.



Which kinda ties back to the question, directed to the OP, "What KIND of assassin do you want the character to be? What is this character's MO?"

[Xerinos]

Which kinda ties back to the question, directed to the OP, "What KIND of assassin do you want the character to be? What is this character's MO?"

Sorry for the late reply to this;

The general idea is that she, in this world in which the organization of the Red Mantis Assassins does not exist, will create it. Or, if not verbatim, an assassination group with the same general operating protocols. The deadliest hired killers in the land, so long as they were not rightly put there, allowing them to be utilized by the church or the crown as required. The leader of the Red Mantis is always female, the Blood Mistress, so she would take up the mantle and try to find, recruit, or train others who shared the mindset.

So no, not necessarily 'good'. I imagine them to be skilled enough at fighting in a one on one sense to make assassinations possible, but some of the ideas above have mentioned that paladin, Warlock or even wizard could also be good ideas. Currently I'm leaning towards a possible Rogue/Paladin multiclass, but I'm not locked down on that. While I enjoy the flavor of the assassins themselves I'm not forced into trying to bring in sawtooth sabres into 5e. The DM has basically allowed me to just flavor simple daggers are short serrated blades and change their damage type which, as far as I'm aware, every class in the game can use daggers. If I were to go for something more martial I'm sure reflavoring a longsword or something similar will be equally a nonissue.

[Max_Killjoy]

Sorry for the late reply to this;

The general idea is that she, in this world in which the organization of the Red Mantis Assassins does not exist, will create it. Or, if not verbatim, an assassination group with the same general operating protocols. The deadliest hired killers in the land, so long as they were not rightly put there, allowing them to be utilized by the church or the crown as required. The leader of the Red Mantis is always female, the Blood Mistress, so she would take up the mantle and try to find, recruit, or train others who shared the mindset.

So no, not necessarily 'good'. I imagine them to be skilled enough at fighting in a one on one sense to make assassinations possible, but some of the ideas above have mentioned that paladin, Warlock or even wizard could also be good ideas. Currently I'm leaning towards a possible Rogue/Paladin multiclass, but I'm not locked down on that. While I enjoy the flavor of the assassins themselves I'm not forced into trying to bring in sawtooth sabres into 5e. The DM has basically allowed me to just flavor simple daggers are short serrated blades and change their damage type which, as far as I'm aware, every class in the game can use daggers. If I were to go for something more martial I'm sure reflavoring a longsword or something similar will be equally a nonissue.

So you have them more locked in on the philosophy, beliefs, and organization side -- and less locked in on the methodology side.

[The Jack]

Is there a good reason why the leader is female (other than, y'know, women empowerment and stuff)


Did they begin as seducers? Concubines, Prostitutes or disenfranchised noble ladies? were they Scorned witches? Heretics? Some violent woman wasn't allowed on the frontlines, so she started killing from the shadows...

Your rational for -woman head- is vital. Nobody's going to make a tradition 'just because'. You should pick your class after you've worked this out.

[Draconi Redfir]

Is there a good reason why the leader is female (other than, y'know, women empowerment and stuff)


Did they begin as seducers? Concubines, Prostitutes or disenfranchised noble ladies? were they Scorned witches? Heretics? Some violent woman wasn't allowed on the frontlines, so she started killing from the shadows...

Your rational for -woman head- is vital. Nobody's going to make a tradition 'just because'. You should pick your class after you've worked this out.

could be thematic. Female Manti in the real world are known for being the larger, dominant sex... and eating the heads of males after mating with them.

[Malifice]

I second vengeance paladin plus assasin.

[The Jack]

could be thematic. Female Manti in the real world are known for being the larger, dominant sex... and eating the heads of males after mating with them.

Obviously, but you're putting the cart before the horse if you use the name without the method. People, with the exception of drow and maybe some other fantasy races, have males as bigger (dominance is arguable). It's a cool name, but you need to capitalize on it more than girl-power name and girl-power attitude; They need to take the heads. But mantis are not only famous for eating male heads, they're famous as warrior insects too (and maybe they're sneaky buggers?). There's no process of elimination with the title, except maybe wizards (though they do have big heads...)

So, we're back to where we were; What kind of assassin does the player want to be?

[Kurt Kurageous]

I’m going to go with the obvious answer that nobody has stated yet:
Vengeance Paladin.

Absolutely! It's the whole point of VPally. It's freakin Batman, for crying out loud!

The superhero Nightcrawler (warlock with misty step) is the only thing even close.

Is your church assassin only a killer? Assassin archetype is more of a dual role spy/killer. Anybody can kill, not just the assassin archetype.

[Kurt Kurageous]

[QUOTE=Laserlight;23659687] To OP: you don't necessarily need a skill or a spell. Just tell the DM what you're trying to do./[QUOTE]

I want to add the following to that excellent advice. After you ask what they are trying to do (their approach), ask them their intent.

Player: "Um, I want to start cutting holes in the wall..."

DM: "Huh? What are you trying to do here?"

Player: I want to climb the wall easier."

DM: "Ok, you don't have to cut holes to do that. You want to climb the walls in order to do what, though?"

Player: "So I can jump down on whoever comes though the door."

DM: "Ok, so you..." (DM adjudicates)

[Max_Killjoy]

Sorry for the late reply to this;


Snipping off the rest, but I need to ask again.

What is this character's MO? How do they assassinate?


Do they strike from stealth, maneuvering in shadow and silence, killing the target when he's asleep or otherwise most vulnerable and then slipping away before the alarm goes up?


Do they strike from distance, like a fantasy-genre sniper, with arrow or spell?


Do they wait until the target can be challenged one-vs-one, and count on the righteousness of their cause and their skill with the blade to best target?


Do they infiltrate the target's business or court or inner circle or whatever, and then strike in secret once they're trusted?


That's just a few possible MOs -- and this will drastically affect what spin you want on the character build.