[Qeestion] Level 20 Battle Royal Character choices

[hwem]

If you had to attend a level 20 BR with 20 players, what would your choice of class/subclass/race/etc be?
The rules are listed below.
Thanks as always!


No multiclass
No prep prior to the battles
Wish and DI are heavily regulated
It's a battlefield of plains and forests (I don't know the details myself. Sorry)
Item chests (healing, weapons, etc) will spawn across the battlefield every now and then



Also...I am not sure what prefix this thread should be. Sorry.
edit: some prizes include game table with a flat screen tv embedded in it, $100 gift card to the game store, various masterfully painted minis

[Rukelnikov]

There are myriads of builds you could use, but my advice? Get something sneaky, the winner is not the one that kills the most but the last one standing.

EDIT: Oh and also, you are probably not gonna be the only one with that strategy, so try to have good perception too.

Rogue or Ranger sound like the best fits.

[Foxhound438]

be a shadow monk, sprint off into the woods and hide. Take magic initiate druid for goodberry and let everyone else starve to death while you skulk around with a +21 in stealth due to pass without trace and free invisibility, short rest to refresh ki, recast and repeat. Maybe come out at the very end to 1v1 the last enemy, if it's a melee character just kite them while throwing darts or shooting a short bow, otherwise you're pretty safe stun locking most PC builds. Maybe take gnome as your race since you don't have to worry about awkward starting stats (or stats in general tbh) to get advantage against nasty spells, particularly scrying effects.

[kenGarff]

I've done couple of these since a game store I go to have these pretty often. And "my" tournaments also heavily nerf wish and divine intervention along with little to no prep time to reduce effectiveness of wizards for instance.

From what I observed, EKs, rogues, open hand monks, and rangers do really well. I am quite surprised by how well some EKs do since I'd assume they'd die out soon similar to how Paladins die out as they hit hard and can take hits well but are constantly in chains of battles until they die.

Paladins (especially vengeance and ancients) usually make a huge scene at the very beginning. However, from what I've seen, they run out of resources really quickly and just get killed left and right Ince they are huge targets. It's the same with moon druids and zealot barbarians. Many players initially played moon druids and zealot barbarians a lot until they realized they were the biggest target on the field and would often times get ganged up or be in chains of fights.

Between rogue archetypes, I'm not sure what the best ones are. Same for the rangers but I've seen hunters and gloom stalkers quite a bit.

[hwem]

Thanks everyone for the insights so far. I initially thought moon druid, open hand monk, and zealot barbarians would be the way to go. But I can definitely see why they wouldn't do too well on paper in battle royale, not 1v1, where many will go after that large crosshair on your back while sneaky subclasses will be exceptionally good. For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

[Foxhound438]

For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

Arcane Trickster rogues seem pretty good, they can pretty much idle on the power in the base class, and having spells like misty step or hold person where it's needed would be icing on that cake.

Rangers would probably be pretty good in any case, gloom stalker can be particularly good if you can hide until nighttime since darkvision users would still be unable to see you in darkness (save for warlocks). Monster slayer could also be pretty good since they get bonuses vs. spellcasters.

I maintain that shadow is probably best for monks since they get pretty much the best stealth options available to anyone, with both pass without trace and free, non-concentration invisibility (putting it ahead of rangers and druids), and then also a no verbal teleport if anyone ever gets close to finding you

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A Druid.
Go Earth Elemental, Borrow underground and blast all with storm of vengeance, lighting strikes and more.

[iTreeby]

Lucky gnome bard with magic jar as a spell secret. Cast the minnimus containment imprisonment using the same gem as the magic jar to trap a squirrel. Steal other people's characters.

[jaappleton]

Oh, 1000000% the answer is Moon Druid.

It’s utterly broken at lv20. Unlimited Wild Shape? Seriously? Cast your highest damaging Concentration spell, go Earth Elemental and hide in the ground. You have Tremorsense so you’ll know when anyone is moving on the ground, so you know where to strike.

In all honesty, your table should universally agree to outright ban Druids from this event. I mean that.

[CTurbo]

Tempest Cleric would be a strong choice. Great AC, take Res(Con), Warcaster, max Wis, and Con. 3 times of maxed Thunder/Lightning damage.

Ancients, Conquest, Redemption, Vengeance, or Oathbreaker Paladin. All three have GREAT capstones

Beserker Barbarian would be PERFECT for this since exhaustion won't come into play. Just use Greataxe, take GWM, Res(Wis), Max Str, Con, and put the rest in Dex

[Misterwhisper]

1. Be a war forged.
-you never know when not having to breathe, eat, or drink will be a lifesaver.
-stats work for every class

2. Do not play melee.
- FAR to easy to keep away from at that level with so many things that can fly or just get away.
- You will just simply not be able to pull it off.

3. Do not be gear dependent.
- Gear can be taken, disarmed, or made useless too easily.

4. Have great perception, maybe even other senses.
- Nothing will help your chances better than being able to find them before they find you.

5. Don't be the obvious threat.
- If you start by looking like the person going to wreck all, you are going to get focus fired.

6. Be prepared for a battle of attrition, some people are going to play the hide and wait game, even if it is not your thing, make sure you can live on your own.

7. Moon Druids - Absolutely broken in this setting, like to the point that expect to see at least 7 of them.

8. Pick skills wisely -
Survival, stealth, perception - great
Persuasion, animal handling, and certain knowledge skills, no.

9. Classes:

- Barbarian, no real chance to win, almost exclusively melee, no escape ability and no ability to chase people down other than slightly better speed. No advice on subclass, just don't play one.

- Bard: All about what skills you pick for magical secret. Problem though of lack of damage, and casting focus is a bit harder to get ahold of. I would lean whispers bard.

- Cleric: Good spells, good class abilities, and can change per day could be great, mobility might be a problem. Pick a defensive or utility subclass.

- Druid: Moon druids are almost gods, especially as a war forged, just stay underground for your rest, you don't need to breathe. Almost unbeatable.

- Fighter: Only go archer, you can burn someone down with action surge pretty fast but then you have the problem of finding them, not exactly experts on detection and utility. Battlemaster is good but so is Eldritch Knight.

- Monk: Speed is amazing, AC is not, neither is health. I you go full stun nova and burn someone down you will have to rest a lot but if you can pull it off you are dangerous.
Drunken master for its crazy movement is good, Shadow is great other than your own vision problems.

- Paladin: Nova is amazing, class abilities are incredible, but your lasting power is definitely not. No real ranged abilities, nor escape ability. May kill someone, but you are going to die. Skip it.

- Ranger: Great at survival, tracking, and hiding, but does not have to offense or defense to make it once the battle starts, even if you do get an ambush. I would go Monster Slayer or the always popular Gloom Stalker.

- Rogue: You are the skill god, between expertise, reliable talent, and many other things you can do anything you want, the issue is going to be how the DM rules how hide and shooting works. Also a readied action spell is going to give you massive problems, play a subclass that can sneak attack without help. Tabaxi is good, Thief, Scout, or Arcane Trickster.

- Sorcerer: To be honest you are just a wizard that can't be counter spelled with a MUCH smaller spell selection. You can do some great things but no multi class really hurts. Subclass does not matter much.

- Warlock: So many different ways to go it can do anything. Personally I would go celestial pact of chain. Invisible scout and spy. The problem is that you will never win any fight one on one with another arcane caster, they can just counterspell your piddly number of spell slots, so stick to being an artillery machine and fight cheap. Your chances aren't good.

- Wizard: You have the spells, and the versatility, with the right subclass you can be a beast, the issue is, everyone knows that and will be gunning for you. The main issue is if you get found first and get burned down due to lower HP. Diviner is good, deep gnome abjurer, even a blade singer is great. Defense is the key.

[kenGarff]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

[Misterwhisper]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

The Moon Druid is not going to be wearing a huge sign that says it is a Moon Druid.
Also, as soon as it gets to their initiative, change and sink, then they are screwed.

The only way they lose is if:

1. They start visible to everyone else.
2. They lose initiative.
3. The person that beats them on initiative decides to target them, which depending on who else is around might or might not happen.
4. They actually get attacked hard enough to be killed or disabled in one turn.

Also, the whole vengeance paladin on a pegasus thing is only good on paper, it is not that great in practice.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd be interested in seeing a Redemption Paladin hard at work.

I take 50% damage of all damage that you deal to me.
You take half of the damage I take from you.
I can't attack you, and you have better things to do than attack me. Focus on just outlasting everyone else, using your healing abilities to sustain yourself (you regenerate health when you're at 50% HP) and stack a ton of Constitution. Pack Counterspell in case someone decides to be a jerk and Power Word: Death against you.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Actually think Warlock could be kind of fun; four Eldritch Blast beams that slow, push back 10 feet, and have a 300 range could be annoying as hell, and either the Celestial's healing or THP from Fiend give some survivability. Tomb of Levistus is a one-time get out of jail free card, at-will invisibility, plus, if you have True Polymorph, if people start coming after you, duck behind cover and turn yourself into a rock until everybody kills each other off. It's pretty dependent on tactics/luck, but that would be a fun one to play with.

[noob]

If you had to attend a level 20 BR with 20 players, what would your choice of class/subclass/race/etc be?
The rules are listed below.
Thanks as always!


No multiclass
No prep prior to the battles
Wish and DI are heavily regulated
It's a battlefield of plains and forests (I don't know the details myself. Sorry)
Item chests (healing, weapons, etc) will spawn across the battlefield every now and then



Also...I am not sure what prefix this thread should be. Sorry.
Anything with long range teleport.
You go to the place then teleport somewhere far away and then one day later scry and teleport back and you never had to fight and the opponents left to go do other stuff too.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

If you survived the to your first turn just go underground, full cover.

[BlackRose]

What kind of items/gold do you start with? A good chunk of spells require costly material components that might not even be available, or will spellcasters have access to the consumables and other components not readily available through focuses/component pouches?

[hwem]

What kind of items/gold do you start with? A good chunk of spells require costly material components that might not even be available, or will spellcasters have access to the consumables and other components not readily available through focuses/component pouches?

I am not too sure. The DMs said we will have loots of items, weapons, etc spawn across the field. Sorry, that's all I know.

[Bloodcloud]

Thanks everyone for the insights so far. I initially thought moon druid, open hand monk, and zealot barbarians would be the way to go. But I can definitely see why they wouldn't do too well on paper in battle royale, not 1v1, where many will go after that large crosshair on your back while sneaky subclasses will be exceptionally good. For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

Moon druid in earth elemental form can elude detection real good by digging though...

Warlock is all about long range sniping in this scenario. Spel sniper and long rage eblast evocation. Also, depending on how long the thing last, Dream can actually shine here... Assuming you get a look at the other players or "know" them. Basically, teleport/ethereal out far, hide, cast dream repeatedly while alluding detection and occasionnally sniping with your long range eblast. If your imp famlilar can recover hairs or other such things from opponent, you get to slowly cripple them and prevent their healing. Sleep hidden on the ethereal plane, cast dream X4, short rest, repeat. Use your familiar as scout, snipe from afar anything that comes in range.

[Ganymede]

Oh, 1000000% the answer is Moon Druid.

It’s utterly broken at lv20. Unlimited Wild Shape? Seriously? Cast your highest damaging Concentration spell, go Earth Elemental and hide in the ground. You have Tremorsense so you’ll know when anyone is moving on the ground, so you know where to strike.

In all honesty, your table should universally agree to outright ban Druids from this event. I mean that.

If we're doing a Battle Royale, it is safe to assume the other combatants know the druid can do this. Which is more likely: the other combatants killing each other, guaranteeing the moon druid the victory, or the other combatants temporarily teaming up to weather the moon druid's onslaught?

[hwem]

Thanks everyone for the answers so far!

[noob]

If we're doing a Battle Royale, it is safe to assume the other combatants know the druid can do this. Which is more likely: the other combatants killing each other, guaranteeing the moon druid the victory, or the other combatants temporarily teaming up to weather the moon druid's onslaught?

Or we can assume all the combatants are moon druids or wizards or sorcerers or warlocks.
Spells can grant results in a short time and casting invisibility is easier than using the hide skill: for using the hide skill you need to move behind something that obscures you or getting some way of obscuring your surroundings(the latter again being easier with spellcasting or with hax strength abuse but the latter is harder in 5e than in 3.5)
Or we have planeshift cleric team and they all planeshift to random planes and then stop worrying about that fight because it is a great solution.

[hwem]

Wouldn't an EK do really well as well? EK eventually get spells like haste and blink and with shield and absorb element, it seem like a tanky fighter that can dish out tons of damage (via multiple attacks) while having means to close in distance and/or retreat via haste and blink.

So I'm thinking EK and some rogue archetypes would be powerful. Thanks again.

[Particle_Man]

Fighter (archer) Champion might actually not be too bad here (yay Katniss!), if you take a background to get Stealth. The Survivor ability keeps you hp going, and you won't be as obvious a target as the Moon Druid.

That said, high level Monks have no weak saving throws, so that is nice.

[greenstone]

Wizard.

Summon nasty things (demons, angels, big elementals, whatever), plane shift, wait.
Repeat until no one else is left standing.

[sithlordnergal]

So, I'd actually go with a Human Variant Moon Druid. Max out your Dex and Wisdom, and grab the Alert feat. The goal is to go first in the initiative, cause as a Moon Druid you only need one round to win. As soon as your turn comes around, cast Storm of Vengeance, making sure to specify that you are not using any Verbal or Somatic components thanks to Beast Spells, turn into an Earth Elemental, sink underground, and wait.

EDIT: If you're worried you'll be targeted as the Moon Druid, snag Rogue and go hide in the woods. Max out your stealth, and snipe people.

[HoodedHero007]

Wizard. Preferably Conjuration. You can just take a quick jaunt to the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing (Alternatively, Elysium). Sit back, sip tea, wait an hour or two. Once you come back, drop a summon on your enemies, or just True Polymorph into a Dragon. Because Dragons.

[vexedart]

I think I’m leaning on bladesinger. Plane shift or mords mansion yourself a way for a while, let them beat each other to death until only the stealthy characters or casters that fly are left, run around with AMF on and bladesong (you’re pretty quick) catch them and beat them to death, rinse and repeat. Even druids shapeshifting doesnt work in AMF(it’s magical). Short of that, forcecage exists too. So does leominds tiny hut for a FOB. And you can still counterspell a sorcerer if it’s a spell that needs a material component, subtle spell only works vs somatic, and verbal. And both need to make an arcana check to identify the spell being cast, which the wizard has as the primary attribute.

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.

Pvp in d&d is kind of lame though, imo, definitely varies by level, and was never designed with it in mind I believe, but I do enjoy the thought expiriment. Still curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on it.

[HoodedHero007]

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.
Go to Limbo instead. Wizards have high intelligence, so just create a nice gravity-less Icosahedral fortress, and when you're about to Plane Shift back, create a bunch of Explosives, utilising Unlimited Every Military Weapon Works.

[sithlordnergal]

I think I’m leaning on bladesinger. Plane shift or mords mansion yourself a way for a while, let them beat each other to death until only the stealthy characters or casters that fly are left, run around with AMF on and bladesong (you’re pretty quick) catch them and beat them to death, rinse and repeat. Even druids shapeshifting doesnt work in AMF(it’s magical). Short of that, forcecage exists too. So does leominds tiny hut for a FOB. And you can still counterspell a sorcerer if it’s a spell that needs a material component, subtle spell only works vs somatic, and verbal. And both need to make an arcana check to identify the spell being cast, which the wizard has as the primary attribute.

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.

Pvp in d&d is kind of lame though, imo, definitely varies by level, and was never designed with it in mind I believe, but I do enjoy the thought expiriment. Still curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on it.

There's only one downside there. Anti-Magic Field ends Bladesong. Bladesong is called out as "secret elven magic" within the description, and would be blocked by AMF. As for Tiny Hut, unless your wizard gets 10 rounds to cast it, it won't be usable. Remember rule number two, no preparation. Therefore Tiny Hut, and really any spell that requires more then an action, is probably not feasible.

[vexedart]

So mansions still good then.

[Ganymede]

There's only one downside there. Anti-Magic Field ends Bladesong. Bladesong is called out as "secret elven magic" within the description, and would be blocked by AMF.

This is not quite right.

The Sage Advice Compendium that discusses the things that do or do not count as magical further elaborates on this requirement. An ability fails the fifth bullet of the checklist if "the word “magical” appears nowhere in its description." "Magic" and "Magical" are different.

It might be a nit-pick, but I suspect that the fifth bullet is meant to refer to abilities that say something akin to this feature of the Pit Fiend: "The pit fiend's weapon attacks are magical." It is quite likely I am wrong, though.

[sithlordnergal]

...You're talking about Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, yes? The casting time is 1 minute, so you'll need to last 10 rounds while doing nothing while not losing concentration...in a PvP with other PCs. That said, it does last 24 hours, so if you do get it off then you can probably use it for the next fight. But seeing as no preparation is allowed, I doubt the DM would allow the OP to pre-cast it.

[Misterwhisper]

I think I’m leaning on bladesinger. Plane shift or mords mansion yourself a way for a while, let them beat each other to death until only the stealthy characters or casters that fly are left, run around with AMF on and bladesong (you’re pretty quick) catch them and beat them to death, rinse and repeat. Even druids shapeshifting doesnt work in AMF(it’s magical). Short of that, forcecage exists too. So does leominds tiny hut for a FOB. And you can still counterspell a sorcerer if it’s a spell that needs a material component, subtle spell only works vs somatic, and verbal. And both need to make an arcana check to identify the spell being cast, which the wizard has as the primary attribute.

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.

Pvp in d&d is kind of lame though, imo, definitely varies by level, and was never designed with it in mind I believe, but I do enjoy the thought expiriment. Still curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on it.

If you are making a pvp setting with people who are good at making characters at least 15 of them will be full casters and the other 5 that aren’t will be good at stealth.

There should be a rule of only one of any subclass or just no moon druids.

Everyone should play a warforged, literally everyone.

The huge issue is going to finding anyone after about the first 3 rounds.

All casters are going to have spells to help them hide or move where others can’t get to them.

To be blunt:

Play a full caster or lose.
The only thing any martial class is going to do is MAYBE kill one other person on round 1 if they can win initiative and actually see someone, and can get to them.

[vexedart]

I'm afb atm, but good catches. I think it's still a top contender. A smart wizard would just leave is my point. Otherwise everyone would meta game who's who before the battle begun. No preperation would include information gathering I'd hope.

[vexedart]

I'd like to point out if the arena were small, 30x30 for example, melee would probably win without much fuss and the tables would be turned. (With magic items)

[Misterwhisper]

I'd like to point out if the arena were small, 30x30 for example, melee would probably win without much fuss and the tables would be turned. (With magic items)

No they wouldn’t.

[vexedart]

Not even with a rod of spell absorption?

[hwem]

Thanks. I suppose it will just come down to moon druids and full casters. I was excited mainly because some people were suggesting rangers, rogues, and monks to be contenders as well but maybe not.

[RogueJK]

Divination Wizard.

Hide out and play defensive until there's only one enemy left. Then pop out, cast Imprisonment, drop a Portent so they auto-fail the save, and then collect your trophy.

[Misterwhisper]

Not even with a rod of spell absorption?

That does nothing to stop AOEs, is very rare, takes an attunement, you have to be holding it, and costs your reaction.

If you have an arena that is 30x30, this whole fight might not make it one round as the AOEs will fly like crazy, meanwhile the moon druid is underground and doesnt care.

The most important things in this fight are:

1. Be a Bard, Sorcerer, Druid, or Wizard.
2. Win Initiative, this is going to be the biggest determination probably, but combined with number 1 is just so huge.

[hwem]

That does nothing to stop AOEs, is very rare, takes an attunement, you have to be holding it, and costs your reaction.

If you have an arena that is 30x30, this whole fight might not make it one round as the AOEs will fly like crazy, meanwhile the moon druid is underground and doesnt care.

The most important things in this fight are:

1. Be a Bard, Sorcerer, Druid, or Wizard.
2. Win Initiative, this is going to be the biggest determination probably, but combined with number 1 is just so huge.

So you don't believe any ⅓ or ½ casters will be on par with the said full casters with or without preparation at the start?

[DrowPiratRobrts]

My recommendation is a wizard. Just throw darts at a board to pick your spells and you’ll be fine.

That being said, I played one of these as a BM Revised Ranger once. We all had roughly equivalent magic items. I was a halfling with a panther that I rode. For feats I had Lucky, Sharpshooter, dual wielder, mounted combatant, and maybe one other. I might not have had sharpshooter on second thought.

Either way, we were just in an open field and I won pretty handily just due to outthinking and outmaneuvering the rest of the party. Gnome might make this better for the magic saves. But I do like the luck of the halflings. I can’t imagine how much better it would’ve been if I got to ride my panther through the trees. They’d never have seen me.

[HoodedHero007]

Of course, it's possible that the other combatants have read this thread, and have also decided to go with the whole Plane Shift Hiding thing, so all of them wait an hour, come back to the fight, and re-roll initiative for the combat to actually begin.

Hmm... how effectively would a Mage Slayer function in that fight, I wonder?

[Misterwhisper]

Of course, it's possible that the other combatants have read this thread, and have also decided to go with the whole Plane Shift Hiding thing, so all of them wait an hour, come back to the fight, and re-roll initiative for the combat to actually begin.

Hmm... how effectively would a Mage Slayer function in that fight, I wonder?

Mage Slayer is a vastly overrated feat.

It only works if:

1. The target is in melee range.
2. You can see the enemy, so not inside darkness, fog, if you are blinded, ect.
3. You can see the enemy cast the spell, so not if by a druid at level 20, or subtle cast.
4. The spell gets to go off first, so add in. They have to STILL be in range, so no on any movement spell.
5. You STILL have to be able to see them so no on any spell that stops your vision, or makes them invisible.
6. You still have to have a reaction available, so no against things like shocking grasp or anything else that stops reactions.

The only real help is if you are stealthed first.
No player, playing a full caster is going to give you a chance to use it if they know you are in range.

[hwem]

Thanks. It's honestly disappointing to think only full casters are "top-tier" viable for this.

[kenGarff]

I still want to say that from my experience, rogues, open hand monks, and rangers do really well.
There are lots of moon druids and they usually show great feats in durability but they usually get ganged up and eventually die.
Paladins were the same case except they died much earlier after spending all their resources in a smite or two.
Full casters, such as sorcerers and especially wizards usually did rather poorly. This is because in my events, they didn't allow any preparation at the start and resources were almost none at the very beginning.
Warlocks, fiends and celestials, seem to do better than sorcerers and wizards from what I've seen.
My events didn't allow any rests and whenever resources spawned across the board, people went for it...epecially the full casters. And they usually died out. Almost all the weekly events have been won by EKs, rogues, monks, and rangers.
The event also lasts surprisingly long lol.

[sithlordnergal]

Thanks. It's honestly disappointing to think only full casters are "top-tier" viable for this.

Actually, I think a High Elf Arcane Trickster Rogue with Sharpshooter, a Longbow, and Expertise in Stealth would do surprisingly well.

High elf gives you proficiency with the longbow.

Sharpshooter removes the penalty for shooting at long range, so you not have a max range of 600 feet.

Reliable Talent with Expertise Stealth and maxed Dex means a minimum 27 stealth (10+12+5)

Bonus action hiding means no-one can really target you with a spell since most spells require you to see the target, and you're probably out of the range of the spells that don't.

Spell Thief is once per long rest, but you can use it on any caster, including Druids. Unlike things like Counterspell, you don't need to see them cast the spell. You just need to be in its Area of Effect. And once you steal their spell, it is gone for 8 hours.

Targets have disadvantage on saves vs. your spells when you cast them while hidden.

Your damage is base 10d6+1d8+5...with a 600 foot range, and a minimum 27 stealth in a forest.

[Foxhound438]

Thanks. It's honestly disappointing to think only full casters are "top-tier" viable for this.

A lot of people overrate casters in 5e due to their experience with older editions where wizards and the like really do get to totally reality bending levels of power while fighters just get the ability to swing a sword a little better every level. In 5e everything stays pretty close to parity, especially if you're in a 20 person brawl and you can sit on the sideline while all the moon druids duke it out for 50 or so rounds before coming out to kill the last one after they're out of spells.

[Draz74]

By RAW, if Disintegrate knocks a druid out of a Wild Shape form, it also kills the druid, full stop.

So play a full caster with Disintegrate, and wear a sign that says "I am the Moon Druid slayer." That way, people will leave you alone until all the Moon Druids are gone.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I have two questions:
1) How will you find out if someone is a moon druid or not?

2) If you didn't kill him in the first round, how will you target him? After all, he will go underground as an Earth Elemental in the first round and will have full cover from everyone.

[Misterwhisper]

I have two questions:
1) How will you find out if someone is a moon druid or not?

2) If you didn't kill him in the first round, how will you target him? After all, he will go underground as an Earth Elemental in the first round and will have full cover from everyone.

1. Hard to tell exactly which one it will be but it is easier to say which ones are NOT Moon Druids.
- They won't be wearing metal armor, but then again neither will a Rogue, some fighter, some rangers.
- They might have a casting foci on hand but considering they don't need it to change, they might not have it in hand yet, may change then move and pull it.
- I can see them swinging a two handed sword or maul or anything.

2. This is the major problem. There is no limit to the time they can stay down there really, they could even rest underground in a wild shape form.;
- try to not be on the ground would help. They can't see you and you can see them, they could cast some AOE's blind but that would not be a great plan. \

Then again it is the same problem with keeping any of the other casters around.
Nothing is going to stop them from teleporting/dimension hopping, whatever unless there is another caster there who can counterspell.

The way I see it is this:

20 people in an area of whatever size and terrain, their spacing and environment can be a huge factor here.
- If this is like hunger games style and everyone pops up in sight of the others expect anyone who has the ability to do so, to flee.
- A big factor is what gear people start with, I would assume that everyone has at least their own weapon/armor/foci to start with or this is just wholeheartedly giving all martials the finger except monk because they will never get a chance to don armor. However, wild shape is a class ability not a spell so they don't need anything and can earth glide around to swipe any gear they want and nobody can stop them.
- So by the end of the first round anyone who can cast spells is gone, rogues probably took a shot at someone and then disappear, Rangers at that level can do the same with a bonus action.
- That leaves people without an escape ability to just beat each other to death but are no real threat to the others.
- Then it becomes a VERY long and slow process of cat and mouse that takes almost forever because it is MUCH easier to hide using magic and abilities than it is to find someone.
- You would think that a Rogue would be great at this, and they would be if it were not for a few silver bullets against them like the Alert feat, which just about everyone should get in this scenario. Alert pretty much shuts down an archer rogue, and a melee rogue will have some issues getting consistent sneak attacks on their own unless they specifically build for it, but melee has its own issues.

[noob]

1. Hard to tell exactly which one it will be but it is easier to say which ones are NOT Moon Druids.
- They won't be wearing metal armor, but then again neither will a Rogue, some fighter, some rangers.
- They might have a casting foci on hand but considering they don't need it to change, they might not have it in hand yet, may change then move and pull it.
- I can see them swinging a two handed sword or maul or anything.

2. This is the major problem. There is no limit to the time they can stay down there really, they could even rest underground in a wild shape form.;
- try to not be on the ground would help. They can't see you and you can see them, they could cast some AOE's blind but that would not be a great plan. \

Then again it is the same problem with keeping any of the other casters around.
Nothing is going to stop them from teleporting/dimension hopping, whatever unless there is another caster there who can counterspell.

The way I see it is this:

20 people in an area of whatever size and terrain, their spacing and environment can be a huge factor here.
- If this is like hunger games style and everyone pops up in sight of the others expect anyone who has the ability to do so, to flee.
- A big factor is what gear people start with, I would assume that everyone has at least their own weapon/armor/foci to start with or this is just wholeheartedly giving all martials the finger except monk because they will never get a chance to don armor. However, wild shape is a class ability not a spell so they don't need anything and can earth glide around to swipe any gear they want and nobody can stop them.
- So by the end of the first round anyone who can cast spells is gone, rogues probably took a shot at someone and then disappear, Rangers at that level can do the same with a bonus action.
- That leaves people without an escape ability to just beat each other to death but are no real threat to the others.
- Then it becomes a VERY long and slow process of cat and mouse that takes almost forever because it is MUCH easier to hide using magic and abilities than it is to find someone.
- You would think that a Rogue would be great at this, and they would be if it were not for a few silver bullets against them like the Alert feat, which just about everyone should get in this scenario. Alert pretty much shuts down an archer rogue, and a melee rogue will have some issues getting consistent sneak attacks on their own unless they specifically build for it, but melee has its own issues.
yes between the digging moon druids, the teleporting sorcerer and wizards and the planeshifting clerics most people can just flee in the first turn.(or be so good at sneaking you can not know if they teleported away or not while they stood at the same place)

[Misterwhisper]

yes between the digging moon druids, the teleporting sorcerer and wizards and the planeshifting clerics most people can just flee in the first turn.(or be so good at sneaking you can not know if they teleported away or not while they stood at the same place)

Also most people, including DM's miss the rule where looking for someone that is an action not just a free roll of perception.

[noob]

Also most people, including DM's miss the rule where looking for someone that is an action not just a free roll of perception.

I included the sneaking people among the people who disappear in the first turn.

[Bloodcloud]

I have so much more questions on the rules though...
1) Is it Battle Royale style, with people released with random equipment without any prior idea it's gonna be happening?
2) Is it Fortnite where you choose where you drop and must scavenge basically everything?
3) Is it Hunger game with a big central loot pile and everybody starts real close with no equipment, no precasting but plenty of prior getting-to-know and plotting time?
4) Is planeshifting and gtfo even allowed?
5) Is it all PC or are there npcs?


Like, if your start far from everyone then survival and hiding strategy is much more viable. If you start in hunger game circumstances then high init is primordial. If you have no focus/weapon/spell component pouch, spellcasters are much weaker, and monk/barbarian can start to shine a bit.

Without a spell book or spell components, the wizard is seriously limited.

If you can plot before/ there are NPC's, then charming people becomes a real damn strategy. Glibness might even be an op spell.

But in nearly all scenarios, moon druid fares well. Get alert as ambush protection and Init boost.

You need few if any equipment, so even if you start with nothing you are performing at near top performance.
Druid spell component can mostly be foraged in a forest. If you don't start with a component pouch thats a big freaking deal.
You have an inifinite source of temp hp.
You can create food and water, so sustenance is not a problem.
You have a bunch of divination spells to spy/locate/avoid targets.
You have plenty of sneaky tools, from flying/swimming/digging forms, inconspicuous wildshaping, pass without trace...
You have summons, wich is always nice
You have safe rest spells, like meld into stone (no component again!)
You have large scale, long duration damage spells to harass and mess with the others. Heck, control weather to artic cold when people dont have winter clothes can impose exhaustion!
Heck, you can out-age the other contestants if it comes to that.

So yeah, I vote moon druid. Nothing compares.

[hwem]

You are given some basic equipments (i.e. weapons, armors, and other resources that we aren't told of). However, chests of items will spawn across the battlefield but the players do not know the content inside. Plane Shifting isn't banned. There are only PCs, no NPCs. I was told by one of the DMs that full casters usually don't do too well due to the lack pf prep time prior to the event, as well as lack of initial resources for their spells. I honestly don't quite know what to expect. But I'm probably not going to go with a moon druid but a rogue/ranger archetype to hide as soon as possible (hopefully a forest or a cave of some sort) and wait for an opportunity to strategize, get loots, etc. Thanks for all the insights by the way.

[Misterwhisper]

You are given some basic equipments (i.e. weapons, armors, and other resources that we aren't told of). However, chests of items will spawn across the battlefield but the players do not know the content inside. Plane Shifting isn't banned. There are only PCs, no NPCs. I was told by one of the DMs that full casters usually don't do too well due to the lack pf prep time prior to the event, as well as lack of initial resources for their spells. I honestly don't quite know what to expect. But I'm probably not going to go with a moon druid but a rogue/ranger archetype to hide as soon as possible (hopefully a forest or a cave of some sort) and wait for an opportunity to strategize, get loots, etc. Thanks for all the insights by the way.

Surely if people are given basic weapons and armor the casters get a basic casting focus or component pouch.

In 5e the lack of prep really does not matter much for full casters, that was more of a 3.5 thing.

Focus on defense, keeping safe and away is far more important.
Anyone can cause enough enough damage if given the chance, you don't have to go around one shooting people.

Survival is the key to winning, and defense and utility is the key to survival.

[BobZan]

Well...

Wizard, any. Abjuration maybe.

Spell Mastery: Shield and Invisibility.

Be invisible until everyone else dies.

[jaappleton]

Legitimately, you'll want something with Counterspell.

[Bloodcloud]

You are given some basic equipments (i.e. weapons, armors, and other resources that we aren't told of). However, chests of items will spawn across the battlefield but the players do not know the content inside. Plane Shifting isn't banned. There are only PCs, no NPCs. I was told by one of the DMs that full casters usually don't do too well due to the lack pf prep time prior to the event, as well as lack of initial resources for their spells. I honestly don't quite know what to expect. But I'm probably not going to go with a moon druid but a rogue/ranger archetype to hide as soon as possible (hopefully a forest or a cave of some sort) and wait for an opportunity to strategize, get loots, etc. Thanks for all the insights by the way.

Interesting.

Planeshifting requires a 250gp specific component, so it's probably out even if not hardbanned.

Warlock sniper could be considered too. At-will invisibility when not moving, invisible familiar for spotting, dream sheananigan for keeping foes from recovering. 600ft attack at no disadvandage is no joke. Fey pact sounds good here, notably for greater invisibility.

Ranger has plenty of usefull spells, including pass without trace and freedom of movement. Damage dealing might be a bit low given level 20 though.

Bard could be suprisingly effective too, given expertise in stealth and appropriate spell choice. Also, strong counterspeller.

[Misterwhisper]

Legitimately, you'll want something with Counterspell.

Another reason druids are pretty broken, they essentially have infinite use of subtle spell.
Can't counterspell them.

[Warlush]

Power word kill takes care of the moon druid in wild shape.

Running off amd hiding or shooting people from 600 feet away is boring amd lame.

The whole point of a battle royal is for everyone to have a big blood bath and die in spectacular fashion. Nobody at the table wants to watch you sit underground with your warforged munchin druid chuckling to yourself about how you're the smartest gamer ever, sniffing your own farts waiting for everyone else to die so you can win by defalt.

Pick something rock and roll and die like a hero.
Or go play WOW.

[Foxhound438]

Legitimately, you'll want something with Counterspell.

not sure why you would really need it if you have good stealth abilities. A rogue can attack out of hiding and go back into stealth and relocate, making the only thing a caster could do be blind cast AOE's. A caster can't even really beat that by readying a spell, they take like 50 damage and have to make a concentration check before they'd get to cast.

[noob]

not sure why you would really need it if you have good stealth abilities. A rogue can attack out of hiding and go back into stealth and relocate, making the only thing a caster could do be blind cast AOE's. A caster can't even really beat that by readying a spell, they take like 50 damage and have to make a concentration check before they'd get to cast.

Some casters casts while underground or simply are not anywhere near the range of a weapon.
Of course that way you can not blast the rogue.
but blasting is not the only thing a caster can do.

[hwem]

Thanks for the help so far!

[Misterwhisper]

not sure why you would really need it if you have good stealth abilities. A rogue can attack out of hiding and go back into stealth and relocate, making the only thing a caster could do be blind cast AOE's. A caster can't even really beat that by readying a spell, they take like 50 damage and have to make a concentration check before they'd get to cast.

The alert feat which will be very common makes that plan much harder to pull off.

[hwem]

With alert feat, rogue/rangers can't sneak up against you well? That would make rogue and rangers pretty much useless.

Though...how are horizon walker, gloom stalker, and hexblade? They seem they are stealthy and powerful subclasses. I don't know about level 20 hex blade's damage output though.

[kenGarff]

Power word kill takes care of the moon druid in wild shape.

Running off amd hiding or shooting people from 600 feet away is boring amd lame.

The whole point of a battle royal is for everyone to have a big blood bath and die in spectacular fashion. Nobody at the table wants to watch you sit underground with your warforged munchin druid chuckling to yourself about how you're the smartest gamer ever, sniffing your own farts waiting for everyone else to die so you can win by defalt.

Pick something rock and roll and die like a hero.
Or go play WOW.

This is a game that can be played in different ways. As long as the group has no problem with different reasons for playing the game, wanting to win battle royale is not a problem. Additionally, the event offers prizes. I see absolutely no problem in people wanting to win BR with cheese.

[Dualswinger]

Depending on how long the battle lasts and how quickly everyone finds each other, a Wizard with invulnerability could do well.

Illusionists can also very easily “hide” for the duration of the battle. Spell mastery of silent image, make a box of adamantine then make it real. Wait out the competition.

[Dualswinger]

Use wish to cast mirage arcane.

Fill the entire mile in 5 foot cubic squares of adamantine that are airtight. Since the spell makes all sensory input, even on a successful investigation, wait out and let them suffocate.

Probably best to use a silent image to hide until you’re sure that most enemies have burned their dispel magics and you have counterspells ready for the rest.

[JNAProductions]

So, I'd actually go with a Human Variant Moon Druid. Max out your Dex and Wisdom, and grab the Alert feat. The goal is to go first in the initiative, cause as a Moon Druid you only need one round to win. As soon as your turn comes around, cast Storm of Vengeance, making sure to specify that you are not using any Verbal or Somatic components thanks to Beast Spells, turn into an Earth Elemental, sink underground, and wait.

EDIT: If you're worried you'll be targeted as the Moon Druid, snag Rogue and go hide in the woods. Max out your stealth, and snipe people.

You'd have to Wildshape first. Beast Spells only works when you're Wildshaped.

[noob]

Use wish to cast mirage arcane.

Fill the entire mile in 5 foot cubic squares of adamantine that are airtight. Since the spell makes all sensory input, even on a successful investigation, wait out and let them suffocate.

Probably best to use a silent image to hide until you’re sure that most enemies have burned their dispel magics and you have counterspells ready for the rest.

wish abuse was forbidden.

[Dualswinger]

All wish is doing in this case is recreating the effects of a 7th level spell. Well within the parameters for its traditional use.

THIS good sir is Mirage Arcane abuse.

[Misterwhisper]

All wish is doing in this case is recreating the effects of a 7th level spell. Well within the parameters for its traditional use.

THIS good sir is Mirage Arcane abuse.

That does not even come close to working. It is still just an illusion it is not actually air tight. Also nowhere does it say you can harm someone with it, otherwise people will just make a mile of lava and burn people to death.



You'd have to Wildshape first. Beast Spells only works when you're Wildshaped.

Beast spells require it but Archdruid doesn’t. Not sure why they bothered with beastspells at 18 when it gets made pointless 2 levels later.

[JNAProductions]

Beast spells require it but Archdruid doesn’t. Not sure why they bothered with beastspells at 18 when it gets made pointless 2 levels later.

Archdruid does nothing of the sort. It just lets you Wildshape unlimitedly.

I derped.

[Misterwhisper]

Archdruid does nothing of the sort. It just lets you Wildshape unlimitedly.

Read the next page, that is not the end of the ability.

Archdruid
At 20th level, you can use your Wild Shape an unlimited number of times.

Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell. You gain this benefit in both your normal shape and your beast shape from Wild Shape.

[JNAProductions]

Read the next page, that is not the end of the ability.

...

I need to keep that in mind. I'm DMing for a Druid player right now.

[Dualswinger]

That does not even come close to working. It is still just an illusion it is not actually air tight. Also nowhere does it say you can harm someone with it, otherwise people will just make a mile of lava and burn people to death.

That’s debatable, since illusory reality calls out disallowing your illusion to cause damage. Even a disbelieved illusion “provides tactile feedback”. I would definitely leave it up to the referees though I imagine they’d be inclined to agree with you.

What would happen if you used the spell to create a mile deep crevice below your enemies? Would they float harmlessly downwards?

What if you lined the bottom with long spikes?

What if you encompassed the whole area inside a building, that had a load of boulders on the “roof” then used an action to remove the roof?

There are myriad ways to use this spell that can invoke damage.

Edit: And Crawford agrees with me

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/03/if-i-used-mirage-arcane-to-transform-a-lake-of-water-into-a-lake-of-lava/