Prestidigitation question: "nonmagical trinket"

[krugaan]

the cantrip creates a "nonmagical trinket" or illusory image that can fit in your hand that lasts until the end of your turn.

is it out of bounds to create, say, a key whose shape you memorized?

How about a lockpick (although you'd technically need cunning action or something to actually use it before it disappeared)?

Any other clever, functional uses for this spell that aren't gamebreaking?

[No brains]

I'd figure your key trick would only really work if you were trying to create some sort of aide for your or somebody else to see the pattern of the key in 3d. I don't know if presto makes items real enough to actually be used.

I suppose if you're a sorcerer and you have subtle spell, you can quickly pull out and put away some writ or ID that looks official enough to get advantage on a deception check.

[Chronos]

Ever see a stage magician make flowers and the like out of tissue paper? That's how I picture the items made with Prestidigitation: They might be pretty, and you might be able to use one to entertain people, but they're not strong or durable enough to do pretty much anything besides be pretty.

The Minor Creation ability of a conjurer wizard, on the other hand, has a lot more utility. There, the only limit is that the thing vanishes if it takes any damage or if you create something else (and you can leverage that into being an advantage, too, if you're clever).

[Vogie]

In general, I believe it's referring to the trinkets you can roll for in the PHB (159), although you may be able to use the ones from CoS, Elemental Evil, and the elvish trinkets from MToF if you ask your DM. It only lasts a round, which makes it difficult to use in most situations. You could do:
You wouldn't be able to conjure a specific key, but you could create a small set of keys to jingle.
A compass, telling you which way north is.
A little bell, to signal.
A Fork, for eating.
A needle, to pop a balloon or punch a hole
A chess piece, to throw off an opponent
A set of pipes, to play a short tune.
An invitation, to pass the bouncer.
A divination card bearing your likeness, which would be amusing on a reading or card game

[OvisCaedo]

It's pretty open ended. I think I'd probably allow this sort of thing, just because of the necessary hurdle of actually having the right key shape exactly memorized to begin with. You've clearly done something to get there already, or perhaps invested in the rather niche Keen Mind feat. I can see some concerns of overlap with minor creation, but I feel like that feature has a LOT more distinct potential as something that can create non-tiny objects which also last for more than six seconds.

edit: it looks like somebody asked JC once what sort of things were valid for this spell, and his response was the still rather open "Prestidigitation can create a little bauble, the nature of which is up to the spellcaster and the DM.". So it seems pretty deliberately vague and up-to-DM what's valid. (though the ever-ridiculous idea of the word "trinket" being intended as a hard mechanical term seems right out)

[krugaan]

Ever see a stage magician make flowers and the like out of tissue paper? That's how I picture the items made with Prestidigitation: They might be pretty, and you might be able to use one to entertain people, but they're not strong or durable enough to do pretty much anything besides be pretty.

I mean, it doesn't say they're fragile either. It's conspicuously vague about it. Nor do keys have to be spectacularly sturdy.


In general, I believe it's referring to the trinkets you can roll for in the PHB (159), although you may be able to use the ones from CoS, Elemental Evil, and the elvish trinkets from MToF if you ask your DM. It only lasts a round, which makes it difficult to use in most situations. You could do:
You wouldn't be able to conjure a specific key, but you could create a small set of keys to jingle.
A compass, telling you which way north is.
A little bell, to signal.
A Fork, for eating.
A needle, to pop a balloon or punch a hole
A chess piece, to throw off an opponent
A set of pipes, to play a short tune.
An invitation, to pass the bouncer.
A divination card bearing your likeness, which would be amusing on a reading or card game


Some of the ones with moving parts seem like it wouldn't fit the nature of the spell, but "trinket" is so damn vague.

[Beleriphon]

edit: it looks like somebody asked JC once what sort of things were valid for this spell, and his response was the still rather open "Prestidigitation can create a little bauble, the nature of which is up to the spellcaster and the DM.". So it seems pretty deliberately vague and up-to-DM what's valid. (though the ever-ridiculous idea of the word "trinket" being intended as a hard mechanical term seems right out)

I figure anything of the nature you get from the likes of penny store surprise bags for kids. Or stuff from the dollar/100 yen/Euro/Tiger Shops/whatever stores. If you can find it there for kids, you can make it with Prestidigitation.

Any store that sells plastic junk that looks like the monsters that inspired Gary Gygax to create owlbears and rust monsters is probably a good model.

[MaxWilson]

the cantrip creates a "nonmagical trinket" or illusory image that can fit in your hand that lasts until the end of your turn.

is it out of bounds to create, say, a key whose shape you memorized?

How about a lockpick (although you'd technically need cunning action or something to actually use it before it disappeared)?

Any other clever, functional uses for this spell that aren't gamebreaking?

I'd say the definition of "trinket" pretty rules out any functional applications of that clause of the spell.

IMO the spell is most useful for: (roughly in order)

(1) creature comforts like staying clean while outdoors or heating up soup;

(2) snuffing out enemy lights with your action to create darkness without costing your concentration (especially if you have Darkvision or the Alert feat);

(3) adding sound effects to illusions without costing your concentration (though Minor Image does this better);

(4) adding olfactory effects to illusions without costing your concentration;

(5) making poisoned meat smell or taste better so dumb monsters are more likely take the bait and eat it;

(6) bluffing monsters into thinking they have been blessed or cursed by e.g. making a Red Rune of Ghastly Death symbol appear on their leader's helmet or something. (Note that there is no save against the symbol creation, though it's obviously up to you to finish the bluff using words and body language.)

#1 and #2 are what I see get used in practice; the others are just ideas on my idea shelf. Frankly I think #1 alone is enough to justify learning the spell even if you never use #2-6.

Edit: okay, I just realized there's a potential #7. You can create an illusory image that fits into your hand and lasts until the end of the next round, right? So you can make things disappear by hiding a real object and creating an illusory image of the object that you ostentatiously place somewhere before the image lapses. Some of the things you'd like to do with Minor Illusion but can't due to the illusion not being moveable can apparently be done with Prestidigitation instead.

[krugaan]

Edit: okay, I just realized there's a potential #7. You can create an illusory image that fits into your hand and lasts until the end of the next round, right? So you can make things disappear by hiding a real object and creating an illusory image of the object that you ostentatiously place somewhere before the image lapses. Some of the things you'd like to do with Minor Illusion but can't due to the illusion not being moveable can apparently be done with Prestidigitation instead.

Actually, I just realized that this matches pretty much exactly how a magician uses slight of hand to do the cup and balls trick.

[Chronos]

(5) making poisoned meat smell or taste better so dumb monsters are more likely take the bait and eat it;
It's not just for poison. As an example, one time my group was questioning a horse (using Speak with Animals) about where all of the people in a town disappeared to. To make the horse more cooperative, I grabbed a handful of grass, and made it taste like a bunch of dandelions.

[JackPhoenix]

Ask your GM (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/11/what-kinds-of-things-count-as-nonmagical-trinkets-for-prestidgitation-cantrip/). That's it.

If you ask me, if you can find it in the equipment table or if it has a listed price, it's not a trinket.

[Warlush]

I've never tried it, but I thought it would be cool to make a shard of glass or a caltrop appear in someones food or ale as they are taking a bite/drink. Or maybe a coin or a piece of dirt if you aren't being cruel. Make a nail appear as someone is sitting down. Make a pebble in someone's boot.

[Vogie]

Some of the ones with moving parts seem like it wouldn't fit the nature of the spell, but "trinket" is so damn vague.

I chose it because trinket 1 on the elemental evil trinket list is a compass


I've never tried it, but I thought it would be cool to make a shard of glass or a caltrop appear in someones food or ale as they are taking a bite/drink. Or maybe a coin or a piece of dirt if you aren't being cruel. Make a nail appear as someone is sitting down. Make a pebble in someone's boot.

The trinket tables include various coins, gems, a dead beetle, and a single caltrop (#66, and made of bone to add a squick factor), so it could work.

[Helldin87]

In all things with spells like this (I lump in druidcraft too because imo they fill similar roles) I want the PCs to feel good about their choice without it being overpowered. Should an at-will ability cancel out a game mechanic or a goal? No. In short because it's not fun in the long run. The struggle to get the key should be fun and compelling enough that PC's don't feel the need to conjure one out of thin air. =D

I find that when abilities like this are used well it almost always results in me awarding advantage. The ability itself rarely solves a problem but it makes your mundane effort more likely to succeed.

[Max_Killjoy]

In all things with spells like this (I lump in druidcraft too because imo they fill similar roles) I want the PCs to feel good about their choice without it being overpowered. Should an at-will ability cancel out a game mechanic or a goal? No. In short because it's not fun in the long run. The struggle to get the key should be fun and compelling enough that PC's don't feel the need to conjure one out of thin air. =D

I find that when abilities like this are used well it almost always results in me awarding advantage. The ability itself rarely solves a problem but it makes your mundane effort more likely to succeed.

Maybe a character who is Proficient with Thieves' Tools and can cast Prestidigitation could get Advantage on a roll to open a lock, by the "special effect" of being able to dupe the key once they've studied the lock? Or could roll normally by using the cantrip in place of the Tools?

[Vogie]

Maybe a character who is Proficient with Thieves' Tools and can cast Prestidigitation could get Advantage on a roll to open a lock, by the "special effect" of being able to dupe the key once they've studied the lock? Or could roll normally by using the cantrip in place of the Tools?

I'd be okay with someone using Guidance to do that, but not Prestidigitation.

Prestidigitation would be useful if the lock able to be opened, but too dirty. You can bipity bopity boop it clean, then use the thieves tools.

I'd be REALLY careful about removing thieves' tools from relevance. If you have a party without someone with that proficiency, or those tools at all, make a chime of opening or something similar available to them. Knock is a 2nd level spell.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd be okay with someone using Guidance to do that, but not Prestidigitation.

Prestidigitation would be useful if the lock able to be opened, but too dirty. You can bipity bopity boop it clean, then use the thieves tools.

I'd be REALLY careful about removing thieves' tools from relevance. If you have a party without someone with that proficiency, or those tools at all, make a chime of opening or something similar available to them. Knock is a 2nd level spell.

Are you worried about removing the Tools themselves from relevance, or removing the Proficiency from relevance?

My musing was that maybe it would grant Advantage would be if someone had the Proficiency, and the Tools in hand; or take the place of having the Tools for someone with the Proficiency. As opposed to just "Poof -- Key!" for anyone with the Prestidigitation cantrip. That is, only someone with the Proficiency would be able to analyze the lock well enough to conjure up the key using the "trinket" from the cantrip.

Just thinking out loud.