Making wild magic happen more often

[DanyBallon]

I have a player whom character is a 1st level wild magic sorcerer, and we were all kinda sad when he didn't roll a 1 on his wild magic roll after casting a 1st level spell.


I'm considering two options to make it happen more often (my players love chaos and don't fear the bad that can come out):

- Option 1: You need to roll 1 on a d20 after casting a 1st level spell, 1-2 for a 2nd level spell, 1-2-3 for a 3rd level spell... up to 1 to 9 for a 9th level spell.

- Option 2: You always need to roll a 1, but the dice size change with the spell level you cast (1st level = d20; 2nd level = d12; 3rd level = d10; 4th level = d8; 5th level = d6; 6th level = d4; and 7th to 9th level always trigger a wild magic effect)

Both method increase the risk of a wild magic effect the more powerful the spell casted.

What are your thought? Any other idea?

[sophontteks]

As they level up they will cast more spells. With more spells they will have more chances to surge. This problem should fix itself. You are already doing the right thing by allowing them to roll after every spell. This makes them vert competitive with tides of chaos proccing so often. Let the surges be, relatively expectional, and they will be more interesting when they occur.

[BreaktheStatue]

My last group had a WM sorcerer, and they had this same problem (even at 15 Level). It was a combination of the DM forgetting to ask for WM rolls, and the player just never rolling 1s. He proc'ed twice in six months of weekly play.

So, my DM bumped the D20 down to a D12, and eventually a D10, I think. The player was so bored with the subclass though that they rezzed the PC as a Divine Soul after he died one time.

[Grey Watcher]

I have a player whom character is a 1st level wild magic sorcerer, and we were all kinda sad when he didn't roll a 1 on his wild magic roll after casting a 1st level spell.


I'm considering two options to make it happen more often (my players love chaos and don't fear the bad that can come out):

- Option 1: You need to roll 1 on a d20 after casting a 1st level spell, 1-2 for a 2nd level spell, 1-2-3 for a 3rd level spell... up to 1 to 9 for a 9th level spell.

- Option 2: You always need to roll a 1, but the dice size change with the spell level you cast (1st level = d20; 2nd level = d12; 3rd level = d10; 4th level = d8; 5th level = d6; 6th level = d4; and 7th to 9th level always trigger a wild magic effect)

Both method increase the risk of a wild magic effect the more powerful the spell casted.

What are your thought? Any other idea?

I'd go with Option 1. It's the simpler of the two. You roll for a wild surge on every non-cantrip spell (not merely when the DM calls for it, but literally every time) and get a surge if you roll less than or equal to the level of the slot you just used.

If you want to change the trigger die, I'd just make it always a d10, regardless of level. Doubles the chances of getting one for a 1st level Sorcerer and means that, if and when you use 9th level spells, you're almost guaranteed one.

[Tanarii]

If the standard rules are being used and the player is using Tides of Chaos "properly" (every opportunity prior to casting a leveled spell, or when casting a leveled spell with an attack roll), they should be causing a wild surge on every leveled spell cast.

Technically at your discretion as DM, but IMO the subclass power comes from wild surges, and those surges recharging Tides of Chaos, so you should be causing a Wild Surge every time.

The wild surge roll is a chance at a second surge on those spells. And if for some rare reason they didn't use Tides before casting a leveled spell.

I run it this way ever since I had someone point out in a thread that this is the best way to run it, and my Wild Sorcerer players love it.

Edit: to be clear, the RAW is, when you cast a spell:
1) player always roll for chance of 1 surge
2) DM may choose to have 1 surge if Tides was used. If DM does so, Tides recharges after the surge.

Both can happen with a single casting. And you can use Tides for an attack roll spell, the DM chooses to have it surge, and Tides recharges from that same spell having been cast. (Due to the order it happens in.)

[Astofel]

I'll basically just echo Tanarii here. The best way to get more wild magic surges is to encourage the player to use Tides of Chaos, and then always make the next leveled spell they cast after that trigger a surge. Heck, you could even use Tides to get advantage on your initiative roll and then trigger a surge on your first turn in combat. I've DMed for a wild sorcerer in the past, and I honestly don't remember a single surge triggered by a 1 on the d20, but we had plenty of memorable and entertaining surges happen. You just have to take advantage (pun intended) of Tides of Chaos.

[sophontteks]

My last group had a WM sorcerer, and they had this same problem (even at 15 Level). It was a combination of the DM forgetting to ask for WM rolls, and the player just never rolling 1s. He proc'ed twice in six months of weekly play.

So, my DM bumped the D20 down to a D12, and eventually a D10, I think. The player was so bored with the subclass though that they rezzed the PC as a Divine Soul after he died one time.
The best solution here is for the DM to just let the player roll after every spell, so he stops forgetting.

[Vogie]

Instead of making it really complicated, include a clause that it just triggers automatically whenever you roll a 1 on a d20

That's right, Wild magic can surge on you failing perception checks or social encounters. That'll keep you on your toes.

[nickl_2000]

Instead of making it really complicated, include a clause that it just triggers automatically whenever you roll a 1 on a d20

That's right, Wild magic can surge on you failing perception checks or social encounters. That'll keep you on your toes.

Alright roll a stealth check. I rolled a 1. Roll a Wild Magic surge, you polymorph yourself into a sheep. Allowing you to blend in perfectly, despite the bad guys seeing you they think nothing of a sheep showing up. Huh... that worked out better than I expected.

[Vogie]

Alright roll a stealth check. I rolled a 1. Roll a Wild Magic surge, you polymorph yourself into a sheep. Allowing you to blend in perfectly, despite the bad guys seeing you they think nothing of a sheep showing up. Huh... that worked out better than I expected.

Nothing more fun than alerting your party that you've failed perception by turning blue.

[nickl_2000]

Nothing more fun than alerting your party that you've failed perception by turning blue.

Or hitting the entire party with a confusion spell :)

[ad_hoc]

I have a player whom character is a 1st level wild magic sorcerer, and we were all kinda sad when he didn't roll a 1 on his wild magic roll after casting a 1st level spell.



It is up to the player to use their Tides of Chaos if they want more Wild Surges (which they should want).

Attack roll spells are great for this. You get advantage and a surge.

[sophontteks]

It is up to the player to use their Tides of Chaos if they want more Wild Surges (which they should want).

Attack roll spells are great for this. You get advantage and a surge.
Note that Tides of Chaos does not allow the player to roll on the wild surge table.

[Helliquin]

What are your thought? Any other idea?

Wild Magic Whenever you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, roll a d20. If you roll a 1, roll on a Wild Magic Surge table, found on page 104 of the Player's Handbook or found online in many different forms.

Dungeon Dimensions Creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions seek to break through to your reality. The DM keeps track of a dimension-spanning barrier between dimensions that starts off at 20 hp. The barrier can only be damaged in the following way.

Whenever you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, roll a d100. If you roll a number equal to the spell level or lower, the DM rolls a d20 on the following table.

d20 Incursion
1-8 Faint chittering noises.
9-14 Perceptible chittering noises. Reduce the reality barrier's hp by 1.
15-17 Loud chittering noises. Reduce the reality barrier's hp by 2.
18-19 Loud chittering noises. A creature from the dungeon dimension escapes. Reduce the reality barrier's hp by 5.
20 A portal to the Dungeon Dimension is instantly torn open. The barrier is reduced to 0 HP.
When the portal is open, 1d4 dungeon dwellers(Appendix A) escape every round. Each round, the DM rolls a d20. If the roll is 16 or higher, then the portal closes and the barrier is restored to 1 hp. The barrier regenerates 1 hp every 7 days.


Dungeon Dweller
Small fiend, chaotic evil

Armor Class 6
Hit Points 10(2d4 + 5)
Speed 30ft fly 30 ft..
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
1 (-4) 1 (-4) 1 (-4) 1 (-4) 1 (-4) 10 (+0)
Immunities All magical damage, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing
Damage Vulnerabilities Non-magical fire
Condition Immunities Charmed, Exhaustion, Frightened, Grappled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned, Prone, Restrained
Senses passive Perception 6
Languages Deep Speech, Common (If Int 6 or above)
Challenge 1/8 (25 XP)
Magic Eater. Whenever the dungeon dweller is subjected to a spell, it takes no damage and regains a number of hit points equal to the spell damage dealt, if applicable. The absorbed spell's effect is canceled, and the spell's energy — not the spell itself — is stored by the dweller. The energy has the same level as the spell when it was cast. The dweller can absorb and store up to 20 levels of energy over the course of its existence. Once the dweller absorbs 20 levels of energy, it can't absorb more. If a dweller is subjected to a spell with an area of affect, it gains energy levels equal to a third of the spell's level, rounded up.

It also increases all of its ability scores by 1, increases its save DC by 1, and increases its maximum HP by 2d4(5) for each level of energy absorbed.

Dispel magic deals 8d4(20) damage to a dungeon dweller. Any dungeon dweller that enters or ends its turn in an anti-magic field is dealt 8d8(36) damage per round.

Actions
Reality Warper. The dungeon dweller can cast spells innately. Its spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 9). Once a dweller has a level of energy equal to a spell level then it can cast the spell at will, without needing verbal, somatic, or material components.

[ad_hoc]

Note that Tides of Chaos does not allow the player to roll on the wild surge table.

You made me go back to my book to see if I got the name right.

Which I did.

Maybe you should go back and look?

This is the entire point of the subclass. Tides is a very powerful ability and the Wild Mage should be making use of it as much as they can.

[sophontteks]

You made me go back to my book to see if I got the name right.

Which I did.

Maybe you should go back and look?

This is the entire point of the subclass. Tides is a very powerful ability and the Wild Mage should be making use of it as much as they can.
It sure is. But it still doesn't allow the player to roll on the surge table. That is 100% up to the DM after the player casts a spell. It's a huge flaw in the class. If the player wants to roll more surges, they have to talk to their DM.

[xroads]

Huh. A friend of mine played a wild mage for a few sessions. Didn't seem like a lack of wild surges was an issue.

If anything, at least from his fellow player's perspective, there were too many.

Let's just say the heroes weren't too put out when the wild mage accidentally immolated himself in a glorious display. Two point blank fireballs complete with musical accompaniment. :smallbiggrin:

[Vogie]

It sure is. But it still doesn't allow the player to roll on the surge table. That is 100% up to the DM after the player casts a spell.

You could say that about the entire mechanic in the subclass. Your criticism is akin to referring that water is wet. This thread is all about rolling on the table more often. It's even titled "Making wild magic happen more often"

So maybe, just maybe, assume that they're trying to make wild magic happen more often.

[HoodedHero007]

It sure is. But it still doesn't allow the player to roll on the surge table. That is 100% up to the DM after the player casts a spell. It's a huge flaw in the class. If the player wants to roll more surges, they have to talk to their DM.
And in this case, the DM wants a player to have more Surges, so it works out in the end.

[DanyBallon]

You made me go back to my book to see if I got the name right.

Which I did.

Maybe you should go back and look?

This is the entire point of the subclass. Tides is a very powerful ability and the Wild Mage should be making use of it as much as they can.

It made me check back as well and somehow I add the impression that you regain the use of the feature only after a long rest, and thought that the second point was restricted by that as well.

I see now ahow much more useful Tide of Chaos is since it recharge after a surge and/or after a long rest

[ad_hoc]

It made me check back as well and somehow I add the impression that you regain the use of the feature only after a long rest, and thought that the second point was restricted by that as well.

I see now ahow much more useful Tide of Chaos is since it recharge after a surge and/or after a long rest

Yeah, with a surge after casting a leveled spell.

So you could get a surge and advantage for every spell slot you have.

[sophontteks]

There are some people who are not aware that none of The Wild Sorcerer's abilities allow a roll on the surge table. I wasn't sure if ad-hoc was aware of this when he suggested using tides in order to surge more.

That said tides should be used as much as possible.

[Max_Killjoy]

Huh. A friend of mine played a wild mage for a few sessions. Didn't seem like a lack of wild surges was an issue.

If anything, at least from his fellow player's perspective, there were too many.

Let's just say the heroes weren't too put out when the wild mage accidentally immolated himself in a glorious display. Two point blank fireballs complete with musical accompaniment. :smallbiggrin:

This is generally my impression of "wild magic" -- great for a dark comedy campaign with Paranoia-level attachment to PCs (as in, NONE), but other than that just a way for one player and random chance to troll the hell out of the rest of the players until they get completely fed up with it.

[Asher5002]

- Option 1: You need to roll 1 on a d20 after casting a 1st level spell, 1-2 for a 2nd level spell, 1-2-3 for a 3rd level spell... up to 1 to 9 for a 9th level spell.

I've used this before and my character died quickly.

[ad_hoc]

This is generally my impression of "wild magic" -- great for a dark comedy campaign with Paranoia-level attachment to PCs (as in, NONE), but other than that just a way for one player and random chance to troll the hell out of the rest of the players until they get completely fed up with it.

My experience is the opposite.

Wild magic has saved the day more times than I could count.

There are far more positive results than negative ones.

[DanyBallon]

I should have mentioned that my players don’t mind seeing a character die, especially if it’s in an interesting way. And for my group the chaos generated from wild magic surge fits perfectly in their definition of “interesting way”. :D

[Tanarii]

This is generally my impression of "wild magic" -- great for a dark comedy campaign with Paranoia-level attachment to PCs (as in, NONE), but other than that just a way for one player and random chance to troll the hell out of the rest of the players until they get completely fed up with it.
Wild surges are more often beneficial than neutral, and more often neutral than negative. Combine that with the straight up benefit of Tides of Chaos, and it works out in the Wild Sorcs favor. Wild Sorc players should be trying to get wild surges. On the average, it adds to their power.

Of course, some people are very risk averse. The class is not for those players, and some times not welcome in the same party as those players.


I should have mentioned that my players don’t mind seeing a character die, especially if it’s in an interesting way. And for my group the chaos generated from wild magic surge fits perfectly in their definition of “interesting way”. :D
I dunno, I thought your OP made that pretty clear, with the chaos comment.

[JumboWheat01]

An idea I thought of for if I ever DM, is to roll two d20s every long rest, and record those numbers. Till the next long rest, have the wild mage roll a d20 whenever they cast a spell, and if it's one of those numbers, wild surge. Having the numbers potentially change every "day" seems to me to fit the chaotic nature of Wild Sorcerers.

[FrancisBean]

An idea I thought of for if I ever DM, is to roll two d20s every long rest, and record those numbers. Till the next long rest, have the wild mage roll a d20 whenever they cast a spell, and if it's one of those numbers, wild surge. Having the numbers potentially change every "day" seems to me to fit the chaotic nature of Wild Sorcerers.

...with, I assume, a double-surge if they happen to match both (that is, when they're the same). I think I like it!

[Tvtyrant]

I would probably just let the player choose to use it 1/encounter, maybe give them a refresh die that gets rolled each turn if that isn't common enough. Roll a D6 each turn, on a 6 you get a surge?

[sophontteks]

I would probably just let the player choose to use it 1/encounter, maybe give them a refresh die that gets rolled each turn if that isn't common enough. Roll a D6 each turn, on a 6 you get a surge?
Thats not really enough, no.

[Quoz]

Just starting my first wild sorcerer myself, and I wanted a better understanding of how surges and tides of chaos interact.

My understanding is that the surge happens when the spell is completed and tides is used when you select the target, so if I have tides available when casting an attack role spell (or one that I also need to save on, such as being in my own AOE) I can use tides, force a magic surge and refresh tides.

If I have already spent tides my next spell will surge, recharging tides but too late for me to use on that spell.

And since the trigger on surge is 'cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher' with no mention of expending a slot, any spell cast as a result of a surge can also trigger another surge, either with the base 5% chance or if you can spend tides as part of casting the surge spell (such as for advantage on your save against your own fireball)

Does that sound accurate or am I missing something?

[Tanarii]

My understanding is that the surge happens when the spell is completed and tides is used when you select the target, so if I have tides available when casting an attack role spell (or one that I also need to save on, such as being in my own AOE) I can use tides, force a magic surge and refresh tides.

If I have already spent tides my next spell will surge, recharging tides but too late for me to use on that spell.Yes and yes.


And since the trigger on surge is 'cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher' with no mention of expending a slot, any spell cast as a result of a surge can also trigger another surge, either with the base 5% chance or if you can spend tides as part of casting the surge spell (such as for advantage on your save against your own fireball)IMO no. Those are not sorcerer spells. Sorcerer spells are ones you select with your Sorcerer known spells.

For example, if you multiclass as a wizard and as a wizard prepare Burning Hands, it is not a Sorcerer spell even though it's on the Sorcerer spell list. Conversely the Magic Initiate feat does (per sage advice RAI) give you a sorcerer spell if you choose to know one, because you select it from that list.

[BoringInfoGuy]

My group has a wild mage in it, and the DM has Wild surges go off whenever the sorcerer casts a non cantrip sorcerer spell after having used Tides of Chaos has been used.

The reason I’m chiming in is to add that the Wild Surges can be a lot of fun when they go off. Once you get past low level and the concern of a sudden Fireball causing a TPK, many of the surges change the flow of battle. A straight forward combat takes on a new dimension after friend and foe alike suddenly turn invisible, for example.

[Grey Watcher]

An idea I thought of for if I ever DM, is to roll two d20s every long rest, and record those numbers. Till the next long rest, have the wild mage roll a d20 whenever they cast a spell, and if it's one of those numbers, wild surge. Having the numbers potentially change every "day" seems to me to fit the chaotic nature of Wild Sorcerers.

It might mean a bit of extra work for the DM, but if you don't tell the player what the numbers are, I like the idea that they don't know if a surge is happening until they've cast a few spells and start to get a feel for it... and then it changes again.

Of course, if you want super-extra-crazy wildness, take the higher d20 and say anything less than or equal to that is a surge.

"Wow, the magic is especially unpredictable today!"