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View Full Version : Leaping Flame maneuver vs. Ride-By Attack



Velaryon
2019-01-25, 12:42 AM
Suppose a mounted Fighter using the Ride-By Attack feat charges a Swordsage who then uses the Leaping Flame maneuver. Which sequence of events is the correct one?

A) Fighter attacks, Fighter finishes movement, Swordsage appears next to him
B) Fighter attacks, Swordsage appears next to him, Fighter finishes movement

By RAW, it seems like the answer would be B. But what has me confused is that I don't see much point to Leaping Flame if this is the case. Or rather, I don't see why you'd use it against a melee attack. The maneuver says it can be used against a creature that attacks you with a melee or ranged attack, but if they're attacking you in melee, 99% of the time you're already adjacent to them, so why would you need to teleport to be adjacent to them? If all this does is get you inside the reach of a creature with a long reach, then that really doesn't seem worthy of a 5th level maneuver to me.

Even the scenario I outlined above is highly situational, but I'm trying to find some reason why you'd ever want to use this other than to disrupt a sniper.

Particle_Man
2019-01-25, 01:05 AM
C) Fighter attacks, swordsage appears behind/in front of the fighter on the fighter's horse/giant wasp/dragon, hilarity ensues. :smallbiggrin:

Anyhow, I imagine it is for reaching those that are attacking you when you can't attack them (such as ranged attacks *or* situations like "the monster is across a 10' pit from you but has 30' reach").

Crake
2019-01-25, 03:35 AM
but if they're attacking you in melee, 99% of the time you're already adjacent to them, so why would you need to teleport to be adjacent to them?

It can be used to reposition yourself into flanking for sneak attack without having to spend a move action, letting you full attack, or, if the enemies are positioned particularly tactfully, then it may actually allow you to get into flanking when you just straight up otherwise may not be able to. It may also allow you to get behind enemy lines to let you attack important targets that otherwise wouldn't be reachable by you.

Bronk
2019-01-25, 07:27 AM
Leaping Flame is an immediate action, so you can use it at any time. The only requirement in the maneuver is that it happens after your attack is resolved, but not how long after. Just wait until the ride-by attacker stops moving before using the ability.

StreamOfTheSky
2019-01-26, 02:01 PM
I'd go with A) since it makes the most sense and seems like the intended way Leaping Flame should work.

But I am very much a RAI type of person.