Paladin Warcaster.

[Aussiehams]

G'day all.

Is there any spell on a single class Vengeance Paladins list that is useful with the 3rd part of the Warcaster feat? I'm struggling to find one, but I only have the PHB at the moment.
Cheers.

[1Pirate]

Either of the Hold spells and Banishment. But taking Sentinel over Warcaster is probably a better use of resources.

[Aussiehams]

The problem with the hold spells is that they will get 2 saves on the turn you cast it. And Banishment is pretty high level.
Warcaster is good for the other 2 parts though. It makes booming blade via multi classing almost mandatory.

[Mitsu]

- Banishment as said above

- Dispel Magic (because you can chose creature to use it for, therefore meeting War Caster criteria) when enemy clearly has some magic effect on him

- Hold Person/Monster - but only use it that way if you have 20 CHA and you are sure enemy has low save score. Also maybe your DM allow only one save throw per turn (because it also makes it more dangerous for PCs). If yes- go for it.

- Dispel Evil and Good - when you use its second variant- Dismissal: "Make a melee spell attack against a celestial, elemental, fey, fiend, or undead. On hit, it must pass a Charisma save or be sent back to its home plane if it isn't there. Undead are sent to Shadowfell and fey are sent to the Feywild."

Apart from that War Caster works best on Paladin if you multiclass to caster like Sorcerer, Warlock etc. because it gives you access to melee damage cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame.

War Caster works great with Polearm Master as it allows you to for OA when enemies enter your reach. It also works great with Vengeance Paladin Relentless Avenger as then you can move freely away from target, forcing it to follow you and activate Booming Blade.

[Aussiehams]

War Caster works great with Polearm Master as it allows you to for OA when enemies enter your reach. It also works great with Vengeance Paladin Relentless Avenger as then you can move freely away from target, forcing it to follow you and activate Booming Blade.

Isn't that only with a spear or shield though? Booming blades range is only 5 feet, so it doesn't work with a reach weapon.

[Mitsu]

Isn't that only with a spear or shield though? Booming blades range is only 5 feet, so it doesn't work with a reach weapon.

Or Q-Staff, yes.

As for 2h Polearms- by 100% sticking to rules it won't work unless target is 5 feet from you. But then comes that question: when does OA attack activate on 10 feet reach weapons:

PAM says "when they enter your reach". In theory - 5 feet is also reach of a 2h Polearm. It covers reach from 5 to 10 feet. A wielder may allow enemy to move closer before making OA.

But that is RAI. By RAW it's Spears/Q-staff only. Which is still great for Paladin as unless you are Devotion pally- 1h weapons don't actually lose much nova damage vs GWM weapons on higher ACs (and actually win or even on ACs 19+) and give you a lot of other options.

[Aussiehams]

- Dispel Evil and Good - when you use its second variant- Dismissal: "[I]Make a melee spell attack against a celestial, elemental, fey, fiend, or undead. On hit, it must pass a Charisma save or be sent back to its home plane if it isn't there. Undead are sent to Shadowfell and fey are sent to the Feywild.

I don't think the feat would let you cast this. If you were already concentrating on it I could see you doing this, but not casting the spell as it actually has a range of "self".

[Aussiehams]

- Banishment as said above

- Dispel Magic (because you can chose creature to use it for, therefore meeting War Caster criteria) when enemy clearly has some magic effect on him

- Hold Person/Monster - but only use it that way if you have 20 CHA and you are sure enemy has low save score. Also maybe your DM allow only one save throw per turn (because it also makes it more dangerous for PCs). If yes- go for it.

- Dispel Evil and Good - when you use its second variant- Dismissal: "Make a melee spell attack against a celestial, elemental, fey, fiend, or undead. On hit, it must pass a Charisma save or be sent back to its home plane if it isn't there. Undead are sent to Shadowfell and fey are sent to the Feywild."

Apart from that War Caster works best on Paladin if you multiclass to caster like Sorcerer, Warlock etc. because it gives you access to melee damage cantrips like Booming Blade and Green Flame.

War Caster works great with Polearm Master as it allows you to for OA when enemies enter your reach. It also works great with Vengeance Paladin Relentless Avenger as then you can move freely away from target, forcing it to follow you and activate Booming Blade.


Or Q-Staff, yes.

As for 2h Polearms- by 100% sticking to rules it won't work unless target is 5 feet from you. But then comes that question: when does OA attack activate on 10 feet reach weapons:

PAM says "when they enter your reach". In theory - 5 feet is also reach of a 2h Polearm. It covers reach from 5 to 10 feet. A wielder may allow enemy to move closer before making OA.

But that is RAI. By RAW it's Spears/Q-staff only. Which is still great for Paladin as unless you are Devotion pally- 1h weapons don't actually lose much nova damage vs GWM weapons on higher ACs (and actually win or even on ACs 19+) and give you a lot of other options.

Sorry, I meant staff, not shield.

And agreed it's great with PAM, but its getting pretty feat heavy, and some dm's don't like the 1 hand weapon PAM build.
And I think the OA only triggers when your enemy enters your reach. If your reach is 10, moving from 10 to 5 isn't "entering" reach, as they are already inside it. That's just my reading of it though.

[Mitsu]

Sorry, I meant staff, not shield.

And agreed it's great with PAM, but its getting pretty feat heavy, and some dm's don't like the 1 hand weapon PAM build.
And I think the OA only triggers when your enemy enters your reach. If your reach is 10, moving from 10 to 5 isn't "entering" reach, as they are already inside it. That's just my reading of it though.

It's not really feat heavy. War Caster is taken instead of RES (CON). The only difference is with Warcaster you want to start with even number (usually 14) and for RES (CON) with odd (usually 13). War Casters build for CHA so usually by the time they have War Caster they already have at least +4 or +5 from Aura and +2 from CON, giving them +7 to Conc save + Advantage.

So either way you want to take RES (CON) or War Caster and get your main stat (STR or CHA) to 20 as fast as possible. PAM build is not feat heavy if you take Variant Human (which imo you should every time you plan PAM build).

Paladins who do not invest in casters multiclass take RES (CON) as its better than War Caster on higher levels on average and they don't need OA spells as Paladin himself don't have much spells to play with them. And RES (CON) scale later better for keeping buffs on. And it's better on STR build because they usually have lower CHA so lower Aura bonus to their CON save.

Sorcerer have a lot spells for War Caster, so does Warlock (though it's mostly BB, GF or EB).

And yes, you are correct about 2h polearms reach by RAW. I just said that there is room for RAI if you speak with your DM before you make your decision.

1h Polearms build are very strong but they are fully legit according to rules. Depends on DMs I guess.

So generally speaking:

1. If you want to take pure Paladin, don't bother with War Caster, take RES (CON)

2. If you want to multi to Warlock or Sorcerer - War Caster

3. If you want to do PAM Paladin build, Vengeance + Booming Blade makes wonderful combo.

[1Pirate]

The problem with the hold spells is that they will get 2 saves on the turn you cast it. And Banishment is pretty high level.
Warcaster is good for the other 2 parts though. It makes booming blade via multi classing almost mandatory.

That's why Sentinel is a better use of resources, because the only point of the Hold spell would be to stop them from moving. You are correct about the other two parts(although since you can use a shied with a holy symbol as a focus, the 2nd part isn't relevant to most of your spells) however your question was about the 3rd part for a single class paladin.


I don't think the feat would let you cast this. If you were already concentrating on it I could see you doing this, but not casting the spell as it actually has a range of "self".

Your DM could nix it, however the restriction is on the casting time(1 action, which is fine) and the target(must only be the creature, which is again fine if you're only going for Dismissal) so it could still work.