Mirror Image and Protection Fighting Style

[YeBoi]

Let's say you are an Eldritch Fighter with Mirror Image and the Protection Fighting Style.
Does one of your mirror images count as a target, so you can use your reaction to cause disadvantage?
Else would it count if you done it on the mirror image of another player?

[Palfatreos]

Protection

When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

I would say yes

[EggKookoo]

Protection

When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

I would say yes

I agree. The attacker is now technically targeting the "creature" next to you, so you can impose disadvantage in the hopes of preventing a duplicate from being destroyed. That might reveal you to be the authentic creature but you're shifting so fast I don't know if your attacker could capitalize on it. You would, of course, be able to pull this trick only once per round.

[YeBoi]

Wait does that mean this could also apply to Mirror Image and the Sentinel feat?

[Erys]

Wait does that mean this could also apply to Mirror Image and the Sentinel feat?

Correction, now that I understand the question.

I would say no, to both the this use of Sentinel and the Protection fighting style.

In both cases you are the target of the attack, the spell just makes you hit a duplicate instead.

[EggKookoo]

I'm guessing you mean this?

"When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature."

I would rule no, because I think it's hard to justify that your mirror image duplicate doesn't also "possess" Sentinel. Other DMs may disagree or get into the technical debate over whether an illusory image of you could possess a feat at all, but IMO based on the spirit of the feature I would say you can't use it.

If Protection had the same limitation of your protected creature also possessing the feature, I would rule no as well. But I think it's a cool fun inventive trick so I'd allow it unless it turned out to break the game.

[Palfatreos]

Sentinel


You have mastered techniques to take advantage of every drop in any enemy's guard, gaining the following benefits:

When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature's speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.


Yes if the enemy doesn't have sentinel feat. Note this becomes a normal attack not a OA anymore so the first sentinel effect wont be triggered.

[Palfatreos]

{Scrubbed}

[EggKookoo]

Sentinel


You have mastered techniques to take advantage of every drop in any enemy's guard, gaining the following benefits:

When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature's speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.


Yes if the enemy doesn't have sentinel feat. Note this becomes a normal attack not a OA anymore so the first sentinel effect wont be triggered.

It's not if the enemy doesn't have Sentinel. It's if the target of the enemy (presumably one of your duplicates) doesn't have Sentinel. The question is, if you have Sentinel, is it reasonable to say your mirror image duplicate does too?

[Erys]

I'm guessing you mean this?

"When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature."

I would rule no, because I think it's hard to justify that your mirror image duplicate doesn't also "possess" Sentinel. Other DMs may disagree or get into the technical debate over whether an illusory image of you could possess a feat at all, but IMO based on the spirit of the feature I would say you can't use it.

If Protection had the same limitation of your protected creature also possessing the feature, I would rule no as well. But I think it's a cool fun inventive trick so I'd allow it unless it turned out to break the game.

OH!

I didn't realize the question was about using the redirected Attack against the MI duplicate as a separate target.

Then no, because the attack wasn't against an adjacent foe-- the Attack was against you and redirected to a duplicate.

I would say the same thing about the OPs question about using Protection fighting style to force disadvantage against a MI duplicate.

[Palfatreos]

It's not if the enemy doesn't have Sentinel. It's if the target of the enemy (presumably one of your duplicates) doesn't have Sentinel. The question is, if you have Sentinel, is it reasonable to say your mirror image duplicate does too?

Hmm rerading it you right i ques it for mechanical reason they putted that in?

[EggKookoo]

OH!

I didn't realize the question was about using the redirected Attack against the MI duplicate as a separate target.

Then no, because the attack wasn't against an adjacent foe-- the Attack was against you and redirected to a duplicate.

I would say the same thing about the OPs question about using Protection fighting style to force disadvantage against a MI duplicate.

To be pedantic, Protection doesn't say "foe," it says "target," and mirror image says "Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell’s duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates." This language suggests mirror image actually changes your attacker's target, which then means it's possible Protection could be used. Definitely a DM call, but the benefit isn't huge -- you get to protect one of your duplicates from being destroyed, effectively prolonging the duration of the spell. It'd be the same as if your attacker kept missing.

On the other hand, Sentinel specifies the targeted creature can't also possess Sentinel, which makes it a little more problematic from a ruling perspective. Also, allowing the use of this feature means you get a "free" attack on your attacker, which is considerably more powerful than preserving the duration of mirror image, at least in my opinion. Again, though, something of a DM call but I'd say no in that case.


Hmm rerading it you right i ques it for mechanical reason they putted that in?

Likely for balance purposes.

[Palfatreos]

I am still gonna say yes to both incase of your own mirror image. They still attacking something that not you and the mirror image just an illusion that copies you but it doesn't have a life on it own.

JC take on sentinel and mirror image https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/10/31/does-an-attacker-who-targets-a-mirror-image-instead-of-you-provoke-an-attack-from-the-sentinel-feat/

but as you see people divided on to interpret the rule so best is to ask your DM how he rules it and just roll whatever side he goes with.

[EggKookoo]

I am still gonna say yes to both incase of your own mirror image. They still attacking something that not you and the mirror image just an illusion that copies you but it doesn't have a life on it own.

JC take on sentinel and mirror image https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/10/31/does-an-attacker-who-targets-a-mirror-image-instead-of-you-provoke-an-attack-from-the-sentinel-feat/

but as you see people divided on to interpret the rule so best is to ask your DM how he rules it and just roll whatever side he goes with.

Interesting on the JC tweet. I guess that means your duplicate doesn't "possess" Sentinel, which is certainly a viable interpretation.

I was yes on Protection anyway. As I think about it I guess I'm not sure I understand why Sentinel has the "can't have Sentinel feat" restriction anyway.

[Palfatreos]

Interesting on the JC tweet. I guess that means your duplicate doesn't "possess" Sentinel, which is certainly a viable interpretation.

I was yes on Protection anyway. As I think about it I guess I'm not sure I understand why Sentinel has the "can't have Sentinel feat" restriction anyway.

Me neither as i understand that sentinel make your attentive in striking when enemy offguard be it walking/attacking/... so 2 allies shouldn't somehow work against each other. So i am quessing like you that it must have been a balance reason or to seal away a possible abusive loophole?

[Erys]

To be pedantic, Protection doesn't say "foe," it says "target," and mirror image says "Each time a creature targets you with an attack during the spell’s duration, roll a d20 to determine whether the attack instead targets one of your duplicates." This language suggests mirror image actually changes your attacker's target, which then means it's possible Protection could be used. Definitely a DM call, but the benefit isn't huge -- you get to protect one of your duplicates from being destroyed, effectively prolonging the duration of the spell. It'd be the same as if your attacker kept missing.

On the other hand, Sentinel specifies the targeted creature can't also possess Sentinel, which makes it a little more problematic from a ruling perspective. Also, allowing the use of this feature means you get a "free" attack on your attacker, which is considerably more powerful than preserving the duration of mirror image, at least in my opinion. Again, though, something of a DM call but I'd say no in that case.


Which is fair. I wasn't really arguing the RAW as I am away from my books and couldn't see the exact verbiage. It was more of a 'how I would rule on the fly' kind of response...


I am still gonna say yes to both incase of your own mirror image. They still attacking something that not you and the mirror image just an illusion that copies you but it doesn't have a life on it own.

JC take on sentinel and mirror image https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/10/31/does-an-attacker-who-targets-a-mirror-image-instead-of-you-provoke-an-attack-from-the-sentinel-feat/

but as you see people divided on to interpret the rule so best is to ask your DM how he rules it and just roll whatever side he goes with.

And that answers that. Nice find!

[Helldin87]

I like the RP of doing this. You are trying to "sell" that the fact that your illusions are real. Defending them makes a sort of sense right?

When the logic gets hard to follow for RAW I tend to evaluate it fun vs damage to the game. In this case if the players are enjoying themselves that's some solid fun. Since you only get one use of this feature per round (costs a reaction) I dont see this breaking any of the game economy in a major way. I would allow this at my table.

[djreynolds]

I am still gonna say yes to both incase of your own mirror image. They still attacking something that not you and the mirror image just an illusion that copies you but it doesn't have a life on it own.

JC take on sentinel and mirror image https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/10/31/does-an-attacker-who-targets-a-mirror-image-instead-of-you-provoke-an-attack-from-the-sentinel-feat/

but as you see people divided on to interpret the rule so best is to ask your DM how he rules it and just roll whatever side he goes with.

Yes you can do both, you could protect your illusion or avenge your illusion. Its a very cool combination or even trio.

[JackPhoenix]

And that answers that. Nice find!

It doesn't, actually, because the neither the question nor the answer suggest that the character with the Sentinel is necessarily the same as the character with Mirror Image. There's no doubt you can use Sentinel when someone else's duplicate gets attacked, but how it interacts with your own MI isn't any clearer than before.

[EggKookoo]

It doesn't, actually, because the neither the question nor the answer suggest that the character with the Sentinel is necessarily the same as the character with Mirror Image. There's no doubt you can use Sentinel when someone else's duplicate gets attacked, but how it interacts with your own MI isn't any clearer than before.

The unadorned "yes" probably means it works no matter who owns the mirror image.

[djreynolds]

When using mirror image. Does an attacker who targets a mirror image instead of you provoke an attack from the Sentinel feat?



Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford
Yes.