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View Full Version : Does continual flame illuminate Darkness



Tanarii
2019-01-27, 06:46 PM
Darkness (the spell) says non-magical light cannot illuminate it.

Continual Light is a spell, so one might naturally think of it as "magical" light. But the spell specifically says its equivalent in brightness to a torch. Does that mean it cannot illuminate Darkness, since a torch cannot do that?

I'd been ruling this as "it's magical" but had a player pose the argument above that it doesn't work.

Secondary question, no player involved I just want to check my thinking:
what happens when a upcast Darkness spell overlaps an upcast Daylight spell?
I've been assuming neither is negated, but the Daylight spell illuminates the Darkness because it is magical.

Chronos
2019-01-27, 06:51 PM
"Equivalent in brightness to a torch" just tells you the amount of light, not its kind. It's still magical light.

Laserlight
2019-01-27, 07:04 PM
Darkness says "if any of this spell’s area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled." Continual Flame is L2, so if it wasn't upcast, it's extinguished. If it was upcast (and Darkness wasn't), then it illuminates the Darkness--implied by "nonmagical light doesn't illuminate it".

Asmotherion
2019-01-27, 07:06 PM
in darkness: "If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled."

continual Flame by itself is a 2nd level spell thus subject to dispelling. My reading would be that even an upcasting still does not quallify it as the original spell is 2nd level or lower but i could be wrong.

PS: Continual Flame is magical Light. Pretty much all spell effects are Magical (held together by magic) other than instantaneous conjurations wich conjure an effect (not sure if still true in 5e but i DM it this way).

Tanarii
2019-01-27, 09:16 PM
Darkness says "if any of this spell’s area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled." Continual Flame is L2, so if it wasn't upcast, it's extinguished.
Oops. Well I ruled wrong regardless then. For some reason during the session I was assuming it was level 3, and didn't just have it dispelled. C'est la vie.

Chronos
2019-01-27, 09:21 PM
continual Flame by itself is a 2nd level spell thus subject to dispelling. My reading would be that even an upcasting still does not quallify it as the original spell is 2nd level or lower but i could be wrong.
An upcast spell is treated as a higher-level spell for all purposes.

Hadoken
2019-01-27, 09:41 PM
If [continual flame] was upcast (and Darkness wasn't), then it illuminates the Darkness--implied by "nonmagical light doesn't illuminate it".

Darkness doesn't actually benefit from being upcast. It doesn't have a clause for "At Higher Levels," so no matter what level you cast it at Darkness only dispels 2nd level or lower spells that produce magical light. However, it's a pretty reasonable change to make if you want to house rule it so that upcasting it does improve its light dispelling feature.

Malifice
2019-01-27, 10:53 PM
Darkness says "if any of this spell’s area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled." Continual Flame is L2, so if it wasn't upcast, it's extinguished. If it was upcast (and Darkness wasn't), then it illuminates the Darkness--implied by "nonmagical light doesn't illuminate it".

Yep, this.

Tanarii
2019-01-28, 01:14 AM
Darkness doesn't actually benefit from being upcast. If I'm understanding it all correctly, it does have a benefit to uncasting Darkness. If you upcast it to level 4, it cannot be dispelled by a Daylight spell. The Daylight spell illuminates the Darkness where they overlap, but outside the overlap (or if they stop overlapping) the Darkness is still in effect.

However, to your main point it does seem that uncasting Darkness or Daylight doesn't change the level of the opposite they dispel if they overlap.