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Reprimand
2019-01-28, 02:14 PM
Hi I was looking to recruit the help of the playground to find a cohort that would help shore up the weaknesses of my character in my friends campaign. I'm the most experienced player in the group so far other than the DM himself and he is allowing me to take leadership (Just the cohort) as he doesn't want to manage all of the random level 1 - 2 npc followers.

Overall Theme of the character is a Disciple of -Redacted- who believes that control of knowledge is the ultimate power and wanting to create sort of an information dark age and to puppeteer the populace. He fundamentally disagrees with the use and creation of undead but still uses necromancies like Speak with Dead (viewing more as divination than a necromancy), False Life or Vampiric Touch or Steal Life to restore himself viewing the potential risk and attention of undead as too high and viewing Lichdom as having too many potential Pitfalls rather wanting to achieve immortally through Steal Life.

My goal is to build a cohort that is complementary of my character while helping shore up weaknesses without being opposed to me ideologically.

My Full Progression will look something like this: Rogue 4 / Domain Wizard 1 / Unseen Seer 10 / and either Nightmare Spinner 5 or Abjurant Champion 5

My character currently is as follows:
NE Human Male Rogue 4

10 str
14 dex
10 con
16+1 int
10 wisdom
14 charisma

10 + 3 (ac) + 1 (shield) + 2 (dex) = 16 (Fighting defensively +4)
(combat expertise +1 - +5)
AC: 16
Flat:16
Touch: 12

Bab +3
Grapple +3

Languages: Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Infernal

MW Dagger

Light wooden shield

Studded Leather

Healing Belt

Boots of Translocation

Everfull Mug

Everlasting Rations

Ring of Darkhidden

Full Feat Progression (not current)
Feats:
H: Able Learner, 1: Combat Expertise*, Flaw: Improved Feint*, Flaw: Weapon Finesse 3: Knowledge Devotion
6: Leadership 9: Practiced Spellcaster 12: Still Spell 15: Combat Casting
Traits: Absent-Minded / Cautious
Flaws: Forlorn (Lose familiar) / Weapon Bound: -redacted- (Dagger) (lose weapon proficiencies other than Dagger)

Currently equipment and goods

274gp 9sp spent of 5400

Carriage + 2 Light Warhorses + 7 days of feed

10 torches

7220 xp

Skill Points
Bluff 7 ranks
Disguise 7 ranks
Sense Motive 4 ranks

Hide 7 ranks
Move Silently 7 ranks
Tumble 5 ranks

Spot 7 ranks
Search 7 ranks

Decipher Script 3 ranks
Spellcraft 5 ranks
UMD 7 ranks

Knowledge: Local 5 ranks +1
Knowledge: Dungeoneering 3 ranks +1
Knowledge: Religeon 3 ranks +1
Knowledge: Arcana 3 ranks +1
Knowledge: Planes 3 ranks +1
Knowledge: Nature 3 ranks +1

Some Spell Progression
1st:
Disguise Self, Shocking Grasp, Expeditious Retreat, Protection from Evil,
Alarm, Shield, Detect Secret Doors(B) LEVEL 2: Ventriloquism, Silent Image.

2nd:
3rd level: Spymaster's Coin, Invisibility, See Invisibility (B)
4th level: Blindess/Deafness, Chain of Eyes

Divination Domain*
0—detect magic; 1st—detect secret doors; 2nd—see invisibility; 3rd—
arcane sight; 4th—arcane eye; 5th—prying eyes; 6th—true seeing;
7th—greater arcane sight; 8th—discern location; 9th—foresight.

*Note DM is allowing domain wizard bonuses to progress with PRCs I do not know if this is the usual.

* I will likely retrain combat expertise and improved feint at later levels to other feats but they are there to consistently get sneak attack and survive.

DM has also allowed me to take forlorn early as I shared my character concept with him early on.

I was learning towards a NE druid but don't know how well that would go since I'm more of an urbanite / and use of necromancy despite lack of undead.

The other reason for this is I tend to operate independently from the party a LOT and need ways to not have to rely on them as much. And in the campaign we all started at level 1 without a party having to build ourselves up before the group met at all.

Currently I'm trying to also afford a set of Goggles of Dark Visions, Eternal Wand of Identify, and a +1 Dagger.

Edit: realized this post was the only google result for my character name and edited those out.

Segev
2019-01-28, 02:38 PM
Why not a cleric of Vecna?

Either straight up, or a mystic theurge who has either sorc or wizard(Illusionist) levels (the arcane side I envision as being all about illusions). They're an inexperienced acolyte of your mutual god who follows you in hopes of being your advisor and of sharing in your great mysteries and secrets.

If you really spend a lot of time away from the party, I'd also suggest asking the DM if, in lieu of tracked NPC followers, you can just say you are starting an information network. Keep one or two 1st level NPC stat pages that represent your spies that you can play as "helpers" to the party when your PC is away. And/or, if you don't want to be away from the party, you can say, "I have my followers handle XYZ," and then just wait for them to report back.

Two possible variants on the archetype for the cleric, character background wise: The more normal one is a standard build of whatever race you like (probably human or halfling for ease of fitting in most places, though the illusionist version could disguise self to cover that and thus be anything), who takes spells to complement your build and who probably has a bit more of a martial cast to him if he doesn't go illusionist/theurge. He's your bodyguard, officially, as well as your spiritual advisor.

The second is more stand-out, which may not be what you want, but you could justify raising him as whatever class you wanted: you found an orphan and "adopted" him, performing blasphemous initiations to dedicate him to Vecna after brainwashing him into being loyal to you (whether he thinks of you as his "father" or his "master" is up to you). When you need to pass for something wholesome, you do a whole father/son disguise. You can use the same two build options, even having the boy be unexpectedly competent in combat thanks to the blessings of your god when he serves as your bodyguard. This variation has more backstory to it, and is definitely creepier; not sure if that's a plus or not.

liquidformat
2019-01-28, 03:04 PM
If you really spend a lot of time away from the party, I'd also suggest asking the DM if, in lieu of tracked NPC followers, you can just say you are starting an information network. Keep one or two 1st level NPC stat pages that represent your spies that you can play as "helpers" to the party when your PC is away. And/or, if you don't want to be away from the party, you can say, "I have my followers handle XYZ," and then just wait for them to report back.

Ya I would agree with what Segev said, to add to it slightly, since you are the master of information/misinformation having a bunch of contacts planted around using the rules in complete scoundrel? (afb can't remember if that is the correct book) is a great choice in place of followers.

Reprimand
2019-01-28, 03:25 PM
Why not a cleric of Vecna?


The second is more stand-out, which may not be what you want, but you could justify raising him as whatever class you wanted: you found an orphan and "adopted" him, performing blasphemous initiations to dedicate him to Vecna after brainwashing him into being loyal to you (whether he thinks of you as his "father" or his "master" is up to you). When you need to pass for something wholesome, you do a whole father/son disguise. You can use the same two build options, even having the boy be unexpectedly competent in combat thanks to the blessings of your god when he serves as your bodyguard. This variation has more backstory to it, and is definitely creepier; not sure if that's a plus or not.

Regarding the first part is that Cleric and subtlety don't always go hand and hand even with trickery domain and cloistered cleric. I also don't want someone to be EXACTLY within the tenants be Vecna because I'm somewhat of an orthodox follower. I have problems with liberal use of necromancy for one, and I'm not inline with all tenants of the god I follow more like a follower of the subversion of knowledge which vecna most closely aligns himself with. I was also considering a Beguiler that may class into Mindbender 1 and Nightmare Spinner, a Blackguard (sneak attack and poison use more assassin like) or a paladin of tyranny my problem being the same with the cleric in lack of subtlety. Basically my ideal teammate I suppose is a divine caster that is stealthy but ranger is too combat focused, Bard would work but inability for silent spell etc.

There are a severe lack of divine scoundrel classes that function as well as something like unseen seer for arcane.

The second option might work but with less brainwashing and more teaching of philosophy and acceptance of the tenants on his own terms. it's best to have willing allies over forcing my ideals on them through cruelty. For example I prefer skill checks over charm and charm over domination because domination is like using a sledgehammer to pick a lock. All brainwashing will usually backfire on me in some way spectacularly.

What sort of argument could I pose or dynamic could I have with a NE druid?

Segev
2019-01-28, 03:45 PM
For a druid, your "problems with liberal use of necromancy" could translate to a shared mindset on necromancy being "properly" done as part of a circle of life and death. Mostly death. The NE druid valuing the secrets of nature as the dark and sinister aspects, wanting to be the monster in the black woods, the witch in the secluded shack, the one to whom people come for forbidden knowledge...if they can survive to find him (or her?).

If you wanted to go the "adopted the kid and raised him to your beliefs" route, arranging for him to be lost in the wilderness by paying or tricking a family into abandoning him out there, Hansel and Gretle style, for you to sweep in and rescue him and teach him what secrets of nature you know as a spark to him forging his own connection with the wilderness might work.

Notably, if he died before you "rescued" him, he'd also be a prime candidate to animate as a slaymate, though your lack of liberal use of necromancy might make that less useful than a living cohort.

If you go the adult route, then you and the witch/druid/monster-in-the-dark would be able sharing secrets. Perhaps you're the lifeline on info to the civilized world, and the druid hangs on your words because you're the one person who visits regularly and you can both survive the hazards and know things even the druid doesn't.

Falontani
2019-01-28, 05:38 PM
So you are wanting a stealthy divine spellcaster that favors knowledge and necromancy, but is against undeath? Is there anything else you'd like your cohort to have? I know you said vecna, but did you want your cohort to venerate the knowledge aspects of Vecna, or just knowledge in general?

Segev
2019-01-28, 06:11 PM
So you are wanting a stealthy divine spellcaster that favors knowledge and necromancy, but is against undeath? Is there anything else you'd like your cohort to have? I know you said vecna, but did you want your cohort to venerate the knowledge aspects of Vecna, or just knowledge in general?

I'm not sure he was that specific about being stealthy and divine. WHat he wants is "complements his weaknesses" and "fits personality-wise." If I'm understanding.

So being okay with, but not obsessed with, necromancy is a plus, and valuing knowledge (preferably while greedily hoarding it rather than being "knowledge must be freeeee!"). Again, if I understand correctly.

Reprimand
2019-01-28, 08:24 PM
So you are wanting a stealthy divine spellcaster that favors knowledge and necromancy, but is against undeath? Is there anything else you'd like your cohort to have? I know you said vecna, but did you want your cohort to venerate the knowledge aspects of Vecna, or just knowledge in general?

More like not animating dead or the creation of undead or rituals to become undead are more taboo. So dread necromancers are out of the question or the death domain since it has a great deal of animation and creation of undead would clash with his particularly ideology. Knowledge is power and by uncovering knowledge and denying others access to information would be ideal. Illusions, enchantment and divination are all his more favorite schools of magic. He's opposed to necro but not willing to ban it because the dead hold many secrets and necro has great spells for protection and to instill terror in enemies.

Even if they can't do all of that it would be best for them to be able to have access to certain utility that I do not or to be good at things I am not while still being able to be subtle.

They don't even need to be a follower of vecna but willing to aid in my thirst of knowledge and suppression of truth.

Falontani
2019-01-28, 08:45 PM
You just described: Changeling Rogue (The sub levels) 3/archivist, and if you can swing it, enter Loredelver (southern magician, alternate spell source, or if you have to Geomancer, although see if Anyspell will work)
Definitely grab Able Learner, possibly grab mutable body. When the cohort is high enough grab contemplative for the knowledge domain (or if you find him using melee, knowledge devotion)
Perhaps grab Vecna God-Blooded

Alternatively Changeling Rogue/Master Spellthief/Chameleon