Weapon Thought Exercise

[Rerem115]

I was trying to come up with a character for a janky, high powerlevel one-off, and while I was running through a list of potential combinations, something struck me.

Out of all the content released by WoTC, out of all the homebrew I've seen (except for a single half-baked set of crafting rules), there's never been an option for a Heavy+Finesse melee weapon.

Now, from a logical standpoint, this makes sense. But, I don't think that it would be completely impossible to come up with the lore behind this theoretical weapon's existence.

But, then a couple more questions come up: What would it look like? Who would use it? Would it be completely broken, or what kind of stats would it need so it wasn't broken?

I'll kick it off--
Meteor Hammer
50 gp, 7lbs. 1d6, Heavy, Finesse, Martial, Special (impossible to start with proficiency in normal circumstances/possibly a monk weapon?)

[Man_Over_Game]

I was trying to come up with a character for a janky, high powerlevel one-off, and while I was running through a list of potential combinations, something struck me.

Out of all the content released by WoTC, out of all the homebrew I've seen (except for a single half-baked set of crafting rules), there's never been an option for a Heavy+Finesse melee weapon.

Now, from a logical standpoint, this makes sense. But, I don't think that it would be completely impossible to come up with the lore behind this theoretical weapon's existence.

But, then a couple more questions come up: What would it look like? Who would use it? Would it be completely broken, or what kind of stats would it need so it wasn't broken?

I'll kick it off--
Meteor Hammer
50 gp, 7lbs. 1d6, Heavy, Finesse, Martial, Special (impossible to start with proficiency in normal circumstances/possibly a monk weapon?)

I'd just call it an Exotic Weapon, and state that whenever you can gain the proficiency of a specific martial weapon of your choosing, you can instead choose an Exotic Weapon (that way, martial classes have to invest to get Exotic Weapons).

Finesse Weapons are generally so light that your strength isn't that important for using it. Alternatively, Heavy implies the weapon requires a certain amount of strength (or that it's just too unwieldy for smaller folk to use properly).

With your Meteor Hammer example, I'd probably give it Reach. It seems far too weak, but giving it Reach will effectively make it a slightly weaker halberd with Finesse, which seems to work fine.

[ImproperJustice]

If we are brainstorming: Some kind of Mjolnir type weapon that is like a massive Great Sword, and weighs like a feather in the hands of the chosen one, but still retains its full weight and mass, especially on impact?

Bonus points if wielded by a small hero or child.

[olskool]

I would think that such a weapon would require high agility AND strength to wield and would reward an appropriate user with a high degree of "weapon agility." Such weapons exist in real life as well as in fantasy. Some examples I would put forth would be...

1) The Military Flail using a round ball on a short (1ft) chain or even a short length of fairly heavy chain used as a 10ft whip.
2) The "mythical" version of a Morningstar comprising a handle attached to a long length of chain (3ft) with a flanged macehead at the end (ala the LOTR WitchKing's flail).
3) A metal variant of the Oriental Three-Piece-Staff.
4) A short (6ft) BUT thick-shafted broad-bladed Boar Spear that doubles as a quarterstaff.
5) The Monkey Fist with an iron ball (a "monkey fist" is a makeshift sailor's weapon made from a short length of heavy rope with a large knot at the end which is used as a flail) or a very large Bolo used as a hand weapon.
6) A Two-Piece outsized grain flail made from two rods (think a pair of 2ft police batons with a swivel link in between them).

These weapons would be able to carry the Finesse Trait by virtue of the fact that the weapon in question can use the wielder's DEX to increase the weapon's hitting power. They are also HEAVY and as such, carry the Heavy Trait in addition to the Finesse Trait.

[Perlywhirly]

When I see finesse and heavy on the same weapon my first thought is “Barbarian / Rogue is gonna LOVE this.” Sneak attack requires a finesse weapon, not that you utilize the “use your dex” part of a finesse weapon. GWM on top, let’s GO. Would this weapon be enough to turn Barbarian/Rogue into a top tier multiclass?!.... Probably not. But the dream is alive.

[Misterwhisper]

Spiked chain
Martial Weapon
18g, 8lbs

1d6 damage slashing
Versatile 1d8
Heavy
Reach
If used 2 handed gains the finesse trait

[olskool]

Spiked chain
Martial Weapon
18g, 8lbs

1d6 damage slashing
Versatile 1d8
Heavy
Reach
If used 2 handed gains the finesse trait

The real weapon is a little light and somewhat smaller but no less dangerous in proficient hands.

https://youtu.be/4jr6EphK01s

[olskool]

When I see finesse and heavy on the same weapon my first thought is “Barbarian / Rogue is gonna LOVE this.” Sneak attack requires a finesse weapon, not that you utilize the “use your dex” part of a finesse weapon. GWM on top, let’s GO. Would this weapon be enough to turn Barbarian/Rogue into a top tier multiclass?!.... Probably not. But the dream is alive.

Two reasonably effective weapons immediately come to mind, The Kusarigama and the Kyoketsu-Shoge.

The Kusarigama: This is essentially a Sickle with an Iron Ball attached by a 10ft cord or (more commonly) a chain. The Ball can be thrown/projected at foes, the chain/cord can be used as a strangulation weapon or an entangling weapon and the Sickle can be used normally or like a Flail.

The Kyoketsu-Shoge: In its simplest form, this is a Dagger with an Iron Ball attached to it by a 10ft silk cord. More advanced versions may have a hook or prong extending from the dagger blade to "hook" opponents with. A chain may also be substituted for the silk cord. This weapon is used identically to the Kusarigama and can be worn as a belt to disguise the fact that you are carrying a weapon.

[Vogie]

The closest thing we have to that is Double-Bladed Scimitar from WGtE, which can become finesse via feat. I could see a more heavy (and more expensive) version with the heavy quality and d6 damage die.

[Deadfire182]

I thought there should be some sort of reach weapon with finesse, but that may be too op

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I think you could easily make some bracers that grant the finesse property to any melee weapon. You could even pair a magic gauntlet with a magic warhammer and when you attune to both you get a bonus "Weapon Set Property" of turning the hammer into a finesse weapon.

[JackPhoenix]

I thought there should be some sort of reach weapon with finesse, but that may be too op

It's called whip, and it's far from OP.

[Christian]

The Heavy designation on weapons is a bit of a misnomer. A halfling with 18 strength has disadvantage when using a heavy weapon, but a human with 3 strength does not. It's about size, which to me means the weapon requires leverage to use effectively. A human who tries to swing a halberd with his hands two feet apart is going to have the same problems a halfling does; the difference is, the human can shift his hands to four feet apart, but the halfling can't.

This makes sense to me for every heavy weapon in the PH except the heavy crossbow. If that's the accurate description of the property, I don't know why a strong halfling would have trouble with it ...

With that in mind, anyway, this is a very hard concept to swallow. The need for leverage means you're directing the strike with sheer power, so it makes sense that the weapon requires strength to attack with.

Also:



Meteor Hammer
50 gp, 7lbs. 1d6, Heavy, Finesse, Martial, Special (impossible to start with proficiency in normal circumstances/possibly a monk weapon?)



... monk weapons ... are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property.

[Rerem115]

I know the PHB Monk weapon limitations; it's just that the meteor hammer IRL was a monk weapon.