Melee Tempest cleric help

[Rivaler]

Hi everyone!

I'll soon have the chance to create a character for a "spin-off" sort of adventure in my current AL campaign. I've had the idea of a tempest cleric stuck in my mind for some time now; someone who firmly believes he's the son of Talos, put on the material plane to give proof of his worthyness, and would like to make one loosely based on the marvel character Thor. I'd like some help and tips regarding his build. A few staples:


MUST be a tempest cleric.
MUST be melee centered, at least in the first tiers, but without giving up too much of the cleric's spellcasting power.
MUST be AL legal.
CAN be multiclassed, as long as it stays mainly a cleric.
CAN start as another class, as long as it stays mainly a cleric.


I'd like to be able to focus on thunder/lightning damage and be able to hold my own in melee (no need for STRONG melee damage, but have it be viable, so to say).

What I have so far:


Start VHuman for warcaster feat.
Wear a shield, warhammer and heavy armor (I'll probably have high strength).
Would really like something like shillelagh to be able to focus on wisdom, but I'm not sure what's the best way to get it or if it's worth it.
Have thaumaturgy for preacher-style booming voice and various thunderous effects just in case.


A few questions I have:


How would you distribute stats? I think 16 str and 16 wis would work, but I fear I'd be a bit too MAD.
(How)Would you take shillelagh or equivalent to use Wisdom as the main attribute?
Would you multiclass in something like, for instance, storm sorcer or battlemaster fighter?


A bit about multiclassing: although I don't think I'll get to 20 anytime soon, the idea of being able to at-will call Talos' name for help at 20 is very interesting and in-character; so, if at all possible, I'd prefer to stick with pure cleric. Still, I'm by no means adamant on this one, and any other idea is very well accepted and considered.

Any and all tips and suggestions are very well accepted! Thanks in advance!

[Grimmnist]

How would you distribute stats? I think 16 str and 16 wis would work, but I fear I'd be a bit too MAD.
(How)Would you take shillelagh or equivalent to use Wisdom as the main attribute?
Would you multiclass in something like, for instance, storm sorcer or battlemaster fighter?


How would you distribute stats? - If you plan to get Shillelagh you only need 15 in Strength (for Plate) or 14 dex for Medium Armor but lose one AC. Both these make you a little less MAD, however, getting Shillelagh will put you behind on ability scores. You have to choose between 2 high abilities and low for everything else (except Con), or a more balanced build. Personally, I would go for the more balanced Shillelagh approach as I try to stay close to the standard array: 15 10 14 10 16 8. Otherwise you have a 16 10 14 8 16 8.

(How)Would you take shillelagh or equivalent to use Wisdom as the main attribute? The Magic Initiate feat really is the only way, multiclassing into Druid isn't a great option as it removes your ability to wear metal. I would take this as your starting feat. Warcaster is great, but if you want to focus on melee in the early levels Shillelagh is the way to go. In addition most of the time at early levels your concentration will be used on the spell Bless, since Bless gives you a bonus to your saving throws it is less essential to have advantage. Not until level 5 and Spiritual Guardians will you really need help maintaining concentration, so it is worth considering taking Warcaster as your level 4 feature.

Would you multiclass in something like, for instance, storm sorcer or battlemaster fighter? I probably would not multiclass, the only thing I might consider is starting Fighter for the Con save Proficiency especially if you choose to start with Magic Initiate instead of Warcaster, this might even let you take ASI rather than Warcaster at Cleric 4.

[CTurbo]

Hi everyone!

I'll soon have the chance to create a character for a "spin-off" sort of adventure in my current AL campaign. I've had the idea of a tempest cleric stuck in my mind for some time now; someone who firmly believes he's the son of Talos, put on the material plane to give proof of his worthyness, and would like to make one loosely based on the marvel character Thor. I'd like some help and tips regarding his build. A few staples:


MUST be a tempest cleric.
MUST be melee centered, at least in the first tiers, but without giving up too much of the cleric's spellcasting power.
MUST be AL legal.
CAN be multiclassed, as long as it stays mainly a cleric.
CAN start as another class, as long as it stays mainly a cleric.


I'd like to be able to focus on thunder/lightning damage and be able to hold my own in melee (no need for STRONG melee damage, but have it be viable, so to say).

What I have so far:


Start VHuman for warcaster feat.
Wear a shield, warhammer and heavy armor (I'll probably have high strength).
Would really like something like shillelagh to be able to focus on wisdom, but I'm not sure what's the best way to get it or if it's worth it.
Have thaumaturgy for preacher-style booming voice and various thunderous effects just in case.


A few questions I have:


How would you distribute stats? I think 16 str and 16 wis would work, but I fear I'd be a bit too MAD.
(How)Would you take shillelagh or equivalent to use Wisdom as the main attribute?
Would you multiclass in something like, for instance, storm sorcer or battlemaster fighter?


A bit about multiclassing: although I don't think I'll get to 20 anytime soon, the idea of being able to at-will call Talos' name for help at 20 is very interesting and in-character; so, if at all possible, I'd prefer to stick with pure cleric. Still, I'm by no means adamant on this one, and any other idea is very well accepted and considered.

Any and all tips and suggestions are very well accepted! Thanks in advance!

I've played a few melee focused Tempests

Go vhuman and start 16 Str, 14 Con, and 16 Wis. You could start with Heavy Armor Master or Res(Con). I like these two to start because they offer an extra +1 to start.

I would NOT bother with Shillelagh or multiclassing

What you want for sure-
1. Max Wis eventually
2. 16-18 Str at least
3. Highest AC possible
4. A boost to concentration. Res(Con) OR Warcaster

What would really help-
1. Having both Res(Con) AND Warcaster
2. Sentinel
3. Booming Blade likely from Magic Initiate

Keep in mind Magic Initiate Warlock or Sorcerer gets you Thaumaturgy and Booming Blade. If this fits your character concept, it wouldn't be a bad starting feat.

[Rivaler]

Thanks guys! Both answers really provided me with some interesting points of view.

I originally planned on taking warcaster because of the "somatic component" part of the feat, but I see the point in taking magic initiate first, which is something I had in mind originally. Too bad you can't take both booming blade AND shillelagh that way :) Still, booming blade sounds definitely useful, but do you think it's better than starting warcaster? It seems to me like most of its worth comes at higher levels, when it deals thunder damage regardless of the target moving.

So maybe I could still go waracaster first, and at 4th take magic initiate so that at the next level it actually deals damage on hit.

I'm a bit thorn so far. I feel like the choice is whether to go Shillelagh and full wis but no booming blade, which could be less optimal later on, or Strength and booming blade, which might make me a bit MAD.

Food for thought :P

[Snowbluff]

I dipped sorcerer and never looked back on my Tempest Cleric. Having Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade to combine with the extra d8 clerics get is handy.

However, I am wondering if an alternative of 5 Ranger for Colossus Slayer and Extra Attack wouldn't be easier stats wise.

[RogueJK]

For a non-traditional Tempest Cleric, a DEX focus is perfectly viable, using a Rapier, Shield, and Light Armor. You'll be 1 point behind in AC compared to Heavy Armor, and won't be as good at Grappling/Shoving, but your damage will be equivalent, you'll have a higher initiative, you'll be better at things like Stealth and Acrobatics, and you can use a ranged weapon to have a decent direct ranged attack option, which the Cleric lacks in their cantrips. (This route also opens up the possibility of using +DEX/+WIS races like Ghostwise Halfling and Wood Elf, although I think Variant Human with Warcaster is still a good choice.)

I agree that finding a way to get Booming Blade, either by going Variant High Half-Elf, or taking Magic Initiate at 4th or 8th, is your best bet for added melee damage for a straight Tempest Cleric. It's thematically appropriate too.

A 1 level dip to get Booming Blade from Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer is less ideal, but workable.


However, I am wondering if an alternative of 5 Ranger for Colossus Slayer and Extra Attack wouldn't be easier stats wise.

A Ranger5/ClericX is a strong melee build, with an additional skill, decent spellcasting, Extra Attack, a Fighting Style, and either extra damage from Hunter's Colossus Slayer, or Darkvision, +WIS to Initiative, and an extra attack and damage in the first round of combat with Gloomstalker. You eventually have 8th level spells known and a 9th level slot, and a bit of additional versatility with 1st and 2nd level Ranger spells known. Start as either Ranger or Cleric, depending on your preference and which two Saves you want Proficiency in. Then go R1/C1 -> R3/C1 -> R3/C3 -> R5/C3, then all Cleric from there. You'll have a bit lower spells known and no Cleric capstone, but you'll be a stronger melee combatant from Level 4 onward (R3/C1 for Ranger Subclass damage bonus), with regular intervals of extra boosts to melee damage at Level 6 (R3/C3 for Spiritual Weapon), Level 8 (R5/C3 for Extra Attack), Level 10 (R5/C5 for Spirit Guardians) and Level 13 (R5/C8 for Divine Strike).

[Vogie]

To go full Thor without relying on the DM to give you a Mjolnir-esque weapon (and not worrying about optimization) I'd mix in 3 levels of Eldritch Knight and 1 level of Storm Sorcerer. You don't actually need Int or any higher Charisma than required - The main things you want is the ability to fly on spellcast (instead of waiting until 17) as well as return your thrown weapon to your hand. Everything else would be Tempest Cleric.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I dipped sorcerer and never looked back on my Tempest Cleric. Having Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade to combine with the extra d8 clerics get is handy.

However, I am wondering if an alternative of 5 Ranger for Colossus Slayer and Extra Attack wouldn't be easier stats wise.

I'll bet both of these work well.

But the sorcerer dip gets pretty MAD with a point-buy or array build, if you want Str (or Dex) for armor and attack, a decent Con for concentration saves and HP, and a high Wis for...well, being a cleric. You're now juggling 4 13+ stats instead of 3, and you were already worried about the MADness of the character.

The Ranger multiclass would definitely be easier on the stats, but 5 levels is a true multiclass rather than a dip, and will massively delay your clerical abilities if taken up front (spirit guardians at 10th level!) It'll be pretty cool, for sure. But that's one heck of a delay. I might consider the multiclass, but probably not until after my 8th level of cleric.

Taking BB at 4th or 8th through MI sounds pretty good. Starting Warcaster, Res Con or (maybe) HAM sounds like a nice way to start. Shillelagh through MI seems a bit too costly, especially if you want to wear heavy armor and need a 15 Str for mobility anyhow. It won't even give you a significant (+2 or more) combat bonus until you pump your Wis through ASIs later on. Plus, for RP reasons, do you really picture Thor using a (staff or club) hammer without the head on it!?! I think BB will do the job better, both mechanically and RP-wise.

[Laserlight]

Bear in mind that past L5 or so, you probably will be in melee but not making melee attacks all that much; you'll be using your Actions to cast Spirit Guardians and AoE spells and such.

I just finished a campaign as a Tempest with Booming Blade, planning to do a lot of melee, but I very seldom used my sword once I got third level spells.

[Rukelnikov]

To make a Thor like character, I think Paladin would be better, however you could do something like this:

Vhuman:

15 +1
8
14
8
15 +1
10

Vhuman: Magic Initiate(Booming blade, we're doing 1 attack for all our carrer, lets make it count)
4- Warcaster
8- Str +2
12- Str +2
16- Wis +2
19- Wis +2

The main "Thor" feel from the build will be the spell Call Lightning, from lvl 5th onwards you can summon a storm to rain lightning on your enemies, while concentrating on that you can attack with Booming Blade, giving extra thunder damage to each attack.

[Rivaler]

Plus, for RP reasons, do you really picture Thor using a (staff or club) hammer without the head on it!?

This... is a pretty good point. For some reason I totally forgot of the shillelagh clause. To be honest, I really enjoy the idea of fighting with warhammer and shield, which I guess I'll have to buy during normal play, but that's no problem. I guess this sets it for Warcaster / Magic Initiate.


Bear in mind that past L5 or so, you probably will be in melee but not making melee attacks all that much; you'll be using your Actions to cast Spirit Guardians and AoE spells and such.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm prepared for this, and actually part of the reason to this post. I'd like to find a way to nicely transition from melee centered to rather being melee-viable later on :)



Vhuman:

15 +1
8
14
8
15 +1
10

Vhuman: Magic Initiate(Booming blade, we're doing 1 attack for all our carrer, lets make it count)
4- Warcaster
8- Str +2
12- Str +2
16- Wis +2
19- Wis +2

The main "Thor" feel from the build will be the spell Call Lightning, from lvl 5th onwards you can summon a storm to rain lightning on your enemies, while concentrating on that you can attack with Booming Blade, giving extra thunder damage to each attack.

Yes, this is pretty close to what I think I'll end up using, maybe switching Magic Initiate and Warcaster and possibly taking Str => Wis => Wis => Str with ASIs.

On a side note: would switching one Str ASI for something like Sentinel or possibly Shield Master be a good idea? I would be doing maybe less weapon damage, but it feels like most of the melee damage would be from on-hit effects anyway.

Thanks for the help so far everyone! :)

[Willie the Duck]

Bear in mind that past L5 or so, you probably will be in melee but not making melee attacks all that much; you'll be using your Actions to cast Spirit Guardians and AoE spells and such.

I just finished a campaign as a Tempest with Booming Blade, planning to do a lot of melee, but I very seldom used my sword once I got third level spells.

I think that will depend a lot on how many encounters the DM pushes the day towards having. I've repeatedly heard people talk about mid-high level clerics being Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon (Spirit Guardians and AoE for tempest) machines, and my own personal (informed by my own gaming) internal response is 'how do these people not run out of spells by 10am?' I recognize that I'm probably the outlier, but I wanted to point out the potential for different experience.

[RogueJK]

Yes, this is pretty close to what I think I'll end up using, maybe switching Magic Initiate and Warcaster

Yeah, I'd definitely take Warcaster at 1st and Magic Initiate at 4th. (Or even 8th, if you want to boost a stat first.)

Warcaster's Advantage on Concentration and ability to cast with both hands full will be useful from Level 1. Whereas Booming Blade won't add any damage to most melee strikes until 5th level, and can't be used on an Opportunity Attack until you have Warcaster anyway.

[Snowbluff]

I'll bet both of these work well.

But the sorcerer dip gets pretty MAD with a point-buy or array build, if you want Str (or Dex) for armor and attack, a decent Con for concentration saves and HP, and a high Wis for...well, being a cleric. You're now juggling 4 13+ stats instead of 3, and you were already worried about the MADness of the character.

The Ranger multiclass would definitely be easier on the stats, but 5 levels is a true multiclass rather than a dip, and will massively delay your clerical abilities if taken up front (spirit guardians at 13th level!) It'll be pretty cool, for sure. But that's one heck of a delay. I might consider the multiclass, but probably not until after my 8th level of cleric.

Taking BB at 4th or 8th through MI sounds pretty good. Starting Warcaster, Res Con or (maybe) HAM sounds like a nice way to start. Shillelagh through MI seems a bit too costly, especially if you want to wear heavy armor and need a 15 Str for mobility anyhow. It won't even give you a significant (+2 or more) combat bonus until you pump your Wis through ASIs later on. Plus, for RP reasons, do you really picture Thor using a (staff or club) hammer without the head on it!?! I think BB will do the job better, both mechanically and RP-wise.

With Variant Human, and taking Resilient Con, you can have 15 Str, 14 Con, 16 Wis, and 13 Cha. This isn't atrocious, just not ideal. You can also swap the Str and Wis if you don't care too much about your Wis (being a melee cleric), and have 16 Str, 14 Con, 14 Wis, 13 Cha.

Sorcerer also comes with Shield and Absorb Elements as spell options. While you'll need Warcaster to cast these while carrying a shield, Warcaster is a really good feat for this build. This means your feat is much better spent on Warcaster than Magic Initiate, IMO.

I am a sort of Pseudo-tank, with high AC (magic armor + shield, as well a staff only attuneable to wiz/sorc/warlock that gives AC*). People are trapped against me with Spirit Guardians and the Booming Blade secondary effect, and my AoOs do a lot of damage and further trap people.

*= It should be noted in AL or any other game where magic items are a given, Sorcerer items are far and away much better than Cleric items. Staff of Power and Staff of the Magi are both insanely good items.

[RogueJK]

The more I think about it, the more I like a 1 level dip into Storm Sorcerer on a Tempest Cleric*. Yes, you'll be a level behind in Cleric spells, but not in spell slots. And you'll have greater flexibility in your cantrips and 1st level spells, of which there are plenty of utility/defensive options that don't rely on CHA. It's also thematically consistent, and gets you a situationally useful ability to basically teleport yourself a short distance as a bonus action when you cast a spell.

You'll still get Booming Blade, without taking Magic Initiate, and can spend the ASI elsewhere.

*The main downside is the need for 13 CHA, which will drag your other stats down. So this build is better suited for rolled stats than point buy/standard array.

[Rukelnikov]

Yeah, I'd definitely take Warcaster at 1st and Magic Initiate at 4th. (Or even 8th, if you want to boost a stat first.)

Warcaster's Advantage on Concentration and ability to cast with both hands full will be useful from Level 1. Whereas Booming Blade won't add any damage to most melee strikes until 5th level, and can't be used on an Opportunity Attack until you have Warcaster anyway.

Yeah, it is undoubtedly better to take Warcaster first, and taking MI at 8th could also be better than at 4th even, you end up getting BB and Divine Strike for a nice damage spike in attacks.


Yes, this is pretty close to what I think I'll end up using, maybe switching Magic Initiate and Warcaster and possibly taking Str => Wis => Wis => Str with ASIs.

On a side note: would switching one Str ASI for something like Sentinel or possibly Shield Master be a good idea? I would be doing maybe less weapon damage, but it feels like most of the melee damage would be from on-hit effects anyway.

Thanks for the help so far everyone! :)

;)

Regarding the stats, by late game that +2 to STR is probably not gonna matter that much depending on how you are playing him. But there's no need to plan that much ahead, you don't know if you'll ever play him at that level, just go with WC at 1, knowing what your options are for lvl 4th and 8th, by the time you have to choose the 12th lvl one you will have a much better idea of what you want.

[Lyracian]

The more I think about it, the more I like a 1 level dip into Storm Sorcerer on a Tempest Cleric*. You'll still get Booming Blade, without taking Magic Initiate, and can spend the ASI elsewhere.

I am new to AL but I was reading there is a limit of PHB+1 on books? Booming Blade is from Sword Coast and Storm Sorcerer is from Xanathar so can you have both?

[RogueJK]

Ah. That certainly complicates things then. (I don't play AL, and tend to forget that aspect.)

[Chronos]

As an aside, the historical shillelagh was originally shaped like a hammer. The version shaped like a walking stick only arose in response to laws by the occupying English that prohibited the Irish from carrying weapons (since you can't very well prohibit someone from carrying a walking stick, and honestly, it's just pure coincidence that my walking stick happens to be very well-designed for cracking open English skulls). So you might be able to talk your DM into letting you use a shillelagh that's shaped like a hammer (but still has the same stats as a club shillelagh).

[Snowbluff]

Yes, Dipping does save an ASI because Warcaster is more less mandatory, you'll need your ASIs. Your stats aren't so bad when comparing +2 Wis and Warcaster versus Warcaster and Magic Initiate.

I am new to AL but I was reading there is a limit of PHB+1 on books? Booming Blade is from Sword Coast and Storm Sorcerer is from Xanathar so can you have both?

Storm Sorcerer was originally printed in SCAG. It's a legal combination.

For AL, I would actually suggest 1 level of wizard over Sorcerer. In AL you are limited to PHB+1, so a sorcerer can't give Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade AND Absorb Elements. On the other hand, a Wizard can still scribe spells from Xanathars even if your +1 is SCAG , so you can have all of them. Furthermore, I think going to a second level for Portent from Diviner (for enemy saves) and also having the option for a familiar is pretty nice.

[Vogie]

Storm Sorcerer was originally printed in SCAG. It's a legal combination.

For AL, I would actually suggest 1 level of wizard over Sorcerer. In AL you are limited to PHB+1, so a sorcerer can't give Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade AND Absorb Elements. On the other hand, a Wizard can still scribe spells from Xanathars even if your +1 is SCAG , so you can have all of them. Furthermore, I think going to a second level for Portent from Diviner (for enemy saves) and also having the option for a familiar is pretty nice.

Actually, that's really amusing... Since you're already melee, if one DIDN'T want to use a shield or armor above light, (if you wanted to do this build based on dexterity, for example, instead of strength) you could do a 2 level dip into Bladesinger. That'll give you 8 more spells known, and the bladesongs, which speed you up, increase your AC, and give you Con save Bonuses.

[Rivaler]

Yes, Dipping does save an ASI because Warcaster is more less mandatory, you'll need your ASIs. Your stats aren't so bad when comparing +2 Wis and Warcaster versus Warcaster and Magic Initiate.


Storm Sorcerer was originally printed in SCAG. It's a legal combination.

For AL, I would actually suggest 1 level of wizard over Sorcerer. In AL you are limited to PHB+1, so a sorcerer can't give Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade AND Absorb Elements. On the other hand, a Wizard can still scribe spells from Xanathars even if your +1 is SCAG , so you can have all of them. Furthermore, I think going to a second level for Portent from Diviner (for enemy saves) and also having the option for a familiar is pretty nice.

This does indeed sound pretty awesome! The portent ability could be fluffed as Talos granting a glimpse of the future, which is very interesting RP-wise!

[RogueJK]

Actually, that's really amusing... Since you're already melee, if one DIDN'T want to use a shield or armor above light, (if you wanted to do this build based on dexterity, for example, instead of strength) you could do a 2 level dip into Bladesinger. That'll give you 8 more spells known, and the bladesongs, which speed you up, increase your AC, and give you Con save Bonuses.

At the cost of being MAD by needing a decent INT too.

But a High Elf DEX-based Tempest Cleric with a Rapier, Studded Leather, a good DEX/WIS and a decent CON/INT, does sound like a fun combination. Your AC would be quite a bit lower than Heavy Armor and a Shield, but your Concentration, Initiative, and Speed would be a bit higher.

Bladesinger's not available for non-Elves, so that means no Variant Human with Warcaster at 1st level. But with an empty hand and +INT to Concentration, you could afford to wait until later.

High Elf Bladesinger2/Tempest ClericX
STR 8
DEX 14+2
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 8

Go +1WIS/+1INT at 4th. +2 DEX at 8. Warcaster or +2 DEX or +2 WIS at 12th.

Not necessarily super optimized, but a potentially fun combo, and a decent melee Cleric.

[Snowbluff]

That would be a very fun idea if you ended up grabbing a headband of intellect early on. That's like 13 (Mage Armor) + 3 dex + 4 int = 20 AC off the bat. Of course, you're still free to get +2 more from dex, and a staff of power or bracers of armor for 2 more, making 24 or even up to 26.

Keep in Mind Bladesinging buffs your Concentration and movement as well. Combine with Wood Elf (High Elf is redundant, as you already have wizard cantrips) and Longstrider for a mighty 55 speed. Too bad you don't get Haste.

This does indeed sound pretty awesome! The portent ability could be fluffed as Talos granting a glimpse of the future, which is very interesting RP-wise!

Hey, on the plus side being a Tempest Cleric gives you the ability to accurately predict the weather. I mean, you make the weather, but still.