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SangoProduction
2019-01-29, 02:54 PM
Ignoring infinite-value things like self-resetting magic traps, what are the most useful spells for a civilization to have for civilian use? Everlasting Flame or whatever is an obvious one, although after a few days of casting by just a single person, and the entire town is eternally lit, and there's no longer a market for the service.

Any other spells of particular note? Max spell level of 3 (these are trained professionals, not the god-killing omnipotent beings that are PCs). Pathfinder and 3.5 included.

DeTess
2019-01-29, 02:58 PM
I wouldn't underestimate prestidigitation. It can make a number of tasks easier and quicker. The same goes for Create Food and Water, as it can obviate the need for food production at all, and prestidigitation allows for the food to actually have some flavor. A society with these two spells within easy reach could go on to do some very interesting things.

Troacctid
2019-01-29, 03:00 PM
*points to the magewright spell list*

SangoProduction
2019-01-29, 03:04 PM
*points to the magewright spell list*

OK. I'm impressed.

AvatarVecna
2019-01-29, 03:30 PM
Ignoring infinite-value things like self-resetting magic traps, what are the most useful spells for a civilization to have for civilian use? Everlasting Flame or whatever is an obvious one, although after a few days of casting by just a single person, and the entire town is eternally lit, and there's no longer a market for the service.

Any other spells of particular note? Max spell level of 3 (these are trained professionals, not the god-killing omnipotent beings that are PCs). Pathfinder and 3.5 included.

An "Eternal Wand" of Magecraft is a strong investment for a master craftsman. Normally to specialize in multiple crafts you'd need multiple kinds of Masterwork tools for a +2 competence bonus, but for 840 gp you can get a +5 competence bonus to any Craft skill twice as often as you need it. You can get it even cheaper if you get one that can only be used by a TN expert with at least 4 ranks in profession (blacksmith) or whatever describes you, so that unscrupulous asventurers will have less reason to steal it from you. This gets the price down to either 370.44 gp or 252 gp, depending on how those cost percentages stack in your opinion.

Regardless of the cost, it increases profits-per-week by (20 x DC / 3) SP if you and your apprentice use it once each every day. And because it's an eternal wand, it's virtually guaranteed to pay for itself in time, although how long that takes varies depending on what you make, how quickly you make it, how often you fail, and how much you initially paid.

Geddy2112
2019-01-29, 04:01 PM
Second prestidigitation, as the everyday applications are just too useful. Clean yourself up in a matter of seconds, your car in a matter of minutes, and your house can be surgical suite clean over the course of several hours. It makes anyone a top tier chef or bartender; it allows you to move small objects without touching them. It is level 0 wish for a reason.

Create water is a literal miracle, as even in modern times not everyone has reliable access to clean water. Having it at will in a dark ages setting is even more powerful. Once you create food and water then you are in serious business.

Stabilize is first aid on steroids,and is about as useful as lay folk knowing first aid is for a society. Throw in the cure X spells and low level casters are now medical professionals. Add in delay pain, delay poison, delay disease, and status and you become a walking hospital. Throw in remove blindness/deafness, cure disease, and lesser restoration and now you are performing miracles.

Endure elements is useful for anyone who works outside or lives in hot/cold climates. Read weather makes the local meteorologist 100% accurate for the next two days and gives anyone this power. Tears to wine lets people make free booze out of sewage, muddy water, or any other liquid and the booze actually makes you intelligent.

Unseen servant is your own personal assistant. Tiny hut is fantastic if you like to camp and backpack.

tadkins
2019-01-29, 04:11 PM
Apocalypse from the Sky. When you're just sick of the whole damn system and wanna burn it down!

Palanan
2019-01-29, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by SangoProduction
Any other spells of particular note? Max spell level of 3….


Originally Posted by tadkins
[9th level spell]

:smallsigh:

ExLibrisMortis
2019-01-29, 04:31 PM
[9th level spell]
:smallsigh:
Yeah, like that's the problem with that spell :smalltongue:.


I've got some NPC blacksmithing optimization here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570571-Worldbuilding-Through-Optimization-A-Trip-To-Sindri%92s-Forge). Unity wine is a neat spell.

liquidformat
2019-01-29, 05:50 PM
I have actually thought of this before from a purely npc with 0 levels spells point of view and the ones I always come to are:

Prestidigitation: for reasons said above

Mending: why by new things when you are one spell away from never having to worry about things breaking ever...(well small breaks anyways...)

purify food and drink: no need to worry about food going bad or non potable water

create water: don't need to worry about carrying or finding water

beyond those, message seems useful kind of and so does mage hand but not to the same level as the above.

Maat Mons
2019-01-29, 06:23 PM
Delay Disease and Delay Poison have already been mentioned, but for completeness' sake, Remove Disease and Remove Poison are possible withing the 3rd-level limit.

Plant Growth might actually be better than Create Food and Water. +33% productivity for 1 year in a 1-mile radius, per casting. A 5th-level Druid gets 1 casting per day, so 365 castings per year. That's... 1,146 square miles of land perpetually producing +33% more crops?

Stretching the definition of "3rd-level spell," the Trapsmith has fabricate at 3rd level. A 6th-level artificer could craft an eternal wand of it.

BowStreetRunner
2019-01-29, 06:29 PM
Most of the civilizations I've created have used Plant Growth as a substitute for modern fertilizers. I know people say just use create food and water, but agriculture does so much more than just make food. Whether you are growing food crops, feed crops for livestock, textile crops, medicinal crops, lumber, or just growing material components for your spells, there should always be some need for fertilization.

Temotei
2019-01-29, 07:04 PM
Alarm for home security.

Comprehend languages and later tongues for communication.

Amanuensis for scribe work.

Locate object for when you lose things.

Calm emotions for bar fights, etc.

Tons of cantrips and low-level spells would be great in plays and musicals, not to mention fireworks shows and such.

Sleep for those kids who just won't go to bed (or deep slumber if you have more than four kids).

Silence for when you need to hear yourself think.

Phantom steed for a stylish and fairly fast way to travel. Mount for the lower-level casters.

Secret page for your diary. Optional explosive runes or sepia snake sigil.

Water breathing for science, exploration, and preventing drowning.

Soften earth and stone, stone shape, shatter, bull's strength, shrink item, spider climb, fly, levitate, enlarge person, and many others for construction, renovations, and general heavy lifting.

Gentle repose for when preparing for death rites is going to take a bit.

Anything that boosts skill checks is sure to be helpful in daily life, too. Heroism, divine insight, etc.

Druids in general can do some fun things with animal companions since they can call a new one in 24 hours. Call one to suit your needs whenever.

Maat Mons
2019-01-29, 07:55 PM
Water breathing for ... preventing drowning.

Nah, if you cast water breathing on the average person, he'll swim to the bottom of a lake, lose track of time, and drown when the duration expires.

Bronk
2019-01-29, 10:09 PM
...beyond those, message seems useful kind of and so does mage hand but not to the same level as the above.

Oh no! Mage hand would be crucial to a low level dude's survival!

Every night in the real world, my awesome cat comes to sit on my lap. Sometimes she gets startled and scratches the living hell out of me! However, at the end of the day, she's just a wee cat, and it's no big deal.

In DnD, if a housecat isn't just a tiny animal... it's a monster. One scratch could leave you bleeding out! If one were to sit on your lap, you'd better hope you have a mage hand ready to distract it enough to escape!

King of Nowhere
2019-01-30, 05:34 AM
Animating undead and using them as a workforce can spark an industrial revolution without industry.

BWR
2019-01-30, 06:53 AM
The Azcans of the Hollow World of Mystara had a bunch of minor spells for all manner of household chores. Back then there weren't 0th level spells, so these were measured in tenths of a 1st level spell.
Things like Chop (chops food to your desired size), Bake, Plait (make braids and ropes), etc. Almost everyone could cast such minor magics, no caster levels required.

The Alphatians of Mystara have spells to create fancy cloth and others to color and decorate them as they please.

Fizban
2019-01-30, 07:10 AM
Ignoring infinite-value things like self-resetting magic traps, what are the most useful spells for a civilization to have for civilian use? Everlasting Flame or whatever is an obvious one, although after a few days of casting by just a single person, and the entire town is eternally lit, and there's no longer a market for the service.

Any other spells of particular note? Max spell level of 3 (these are trained professionals, not the god-killing omnipotent beings that are PCs). Pathfinder and 3.5 included.
Define "civillian use" and "useful."

You mention trained professionals, but most DnD spells are so localized that either you have it, or you don't- cure spells "saving lives" is the easiest example, because unless you happen to drop right next to a caster, they're not going to show up before you bleed out. Even with far more casters than given in the DMG, there's still only so much effect to be had. "Civillian use" implies to me that you actually mean "arbitrarily sufficient magic items," which is a whole different league.

Regardless, the usual suspects apply. Plant Growth is heavily dependent on the DM's reading, but whatever effect is has will be had to the appropriate degree. Free energy is free energy, if you can find a source of Wall of Fire at 3rd instead of 4th, you've got the industrial revolution. And Unseen Servants/Servant Hordes crush a ton of low-wage jobs if they're being cast for "free," while also getting tons of people out of dangerous dirty jobs.

Mechalich
2019-01-30, 07:15 AM
Animating undead and using them as a workforce can spark an industrial revolution without industry.

Not necessarily. Animating the dead just gives you a functionally limitless labor force (or perhaps not actually limitless, reanimated corpses presumably break down from use eventually, so you eventually reach an equilibrium point), it does not provide any new technological options. Infinite labor resource means you can produce endless Chinese-dynasty level civic works projects, but it doesn't produce any innovation. In fact, an infinite undead labor force is actually likely to retard technological progress because everyone's living a life of leisure in a personal palace being waited on by undead servitors that take care of all basic needs and all of society's intellectuals would be working solely on newer better versions of necromancy rather than any other field.


Define "civillian use" and "useful."

You mention trained professionals, but most DnD spells are so localized that either you have it, or you don't- cure spells "saving lives" is the easiest example, because unless you happen to drop right next to a caster, they're not going to show up before you bleed out. Even with far more casters than given in the DMG, there's still only so much effect to be had. "Civillian use" implies to me that you actually mean "arbitrarily sufficient magic items," which is a whole different league.

According to standard D&D demographics in the DMG, any village-sized settlement is almost certain to have at least one 1st level divine caster, whether that's an Adept, Cleric, or Druid, and even the smallest communities, Thorpes of 20-80 people still have a very good chance of having a divine caster in residence. That means almost everyone is in reach of at least Cure Light Wounds. Now, that's not all that helpful for accidents, since a victim might plausibly bleed out prior to summoning help, but it means that in cases where injury is predictable the local divine caster can be on standby to instantly heal injuries. This is a gamechanger, as it causes certain kinds of injuries - like childbirth - to vanish.

Low-level divine magic is incredibly common in standard D&D demographics, enough that even if you ban powerful casters there's still enough highly effective magic to absolutely transform the world. even zero level spells are powerful. Consider the combination of Guidance and Resistance to add +2 to a single saving throw. That has the potential to massively increase survivor-ship against poisoning. The 1st level druid spell list is even better in terms of having a dramatic effect.

Effectively, a D&D world is full of 'village doctors' who, while generally not the match of post-war 20th century or later professionals, are vastly superior in capability to even 19th century practitioners.

Elvensilver
2019-01-30, 07:36 AM
purify food and drink: no need to worry about food going bad or non potable water


I would like to emphasize this point: Purify food and water seems the most useful one. In the poorer parts of the world farmers lose up to 1/3 of their harvest because they can't store it safely. In a medival setting this would also happen, so with this cantrip you could effectivly rise your harvest to 150%. Furthermore this also heps against illnesses like cholera.

Arcane Mark could be used to verify coins.

An item of Ant Haul could change trade,for allowing individuals to carry really heavy things even through mountains.

I imagine a lot of old folks who can't really work anymore due to joint pains or so to do small chores with mage hand- just sit in the garden and weed while drinking tea, without ever getting up!

Bronk
2019-01-30, 07:47 AM
The Azcans of the Hollow World of Mystara had a bunch of minor spells for all manner of household chores. Back then there weren't 0th level spells, so these were measured in tenths of a 1st level spell.
Things like Chop (chops food to your desired size), Bake, Plait (make braids and ropes), etc. Almost everyone could cast such minor magics, no caster levels required.

The Alphatians of Mystara have spells to create fancy cloth and others to color and decorate them as they please.

There was a similar mechanic for the Netherese.

Fizban
2019-01-30, 08:07 AM
Now, that's not all that helpful for accidents, since a victim might plausibly bleed out prior to summoning help, but it means that in cases where injury is predictable the local divine caster can be on standby to instantly heal injuries. This is a gamechanger, as it causes certain kinds of injuries - like childbirth - to vanish.
Yes, death during childbirth is the big one, though it depends on whether that counts as hp damage or con loss- I wonder if either of the 3rd party naughty books make a statement, hmm. . . But anyway. I've just seen one too many claims of "no one dies because heaaaaalinnnnggg" so I get it out of the way fast.


Consider the combination of Guidance and Resistance to add +2 to a single saving throw. That has the potential to massively increase survivor-ship against poisoning.
Not the example I'd use, since the Heal skill costs no spell slots and flat replaces the saving throw with a skill check. Though again, that requires the healer to arrive within 1 minute, so it only helps if they're already around. Now having someone who can cast Delay Poison (Clr2/etc) on hand, that's a localized game-changer, especially with a highly trained Heal skill. Just preemptively defer all saving throws for the next few minutes then Heal check them away.

Similarly for disease, sufficiently trained Heal skill just crushes them. It only takes 10 minutes per check, two checks over two days per patient. Delay Disease is handy to protect your aid workers, but not even really necessary. Its main use would be to stave off diseases which can't be thrown off without magical removal, or in item form for places that don't have sufficiently stronk Heal skillers. The main thing the faux-medieval world is lacking, is a proper statement on whether they understand disease communication and quarantine.

MoiMagnus
2019-01-30, 08:35 AM
On top of things said before:

Zone of truth (2nd level). (and any detection of alignement)
Any tribunal would have one. And this change a LOT of things.
(try being a corrupted politician in that kind of world, unless you have some high level magic, or magic object, you are screwed)

I would also add that it isn't absurd for higher level spellcaster to exist in the capital. If at least one level 9 cleric exist per empire, any assassination attempt against the king has to take "raise dead" into account. Same for trying to get rid of a problematic witness, but rich enough to pay for its own resurrection.

Ah, and also all the light spells probably mean they have better light than the crap they had during medieval period.

Speak with animals/plants, it has probably a lot of applications.

J-H
2019-01-30, 08:46 AM
The 2nd level spell "Deliver Baby," the 3rd level spell "Caesarian Section" when that doesn't work, and the accompanying first level spell "Sterilize room." Bonus points if you also know the 2nd level spell "Reduce pain perception" that doesn't involve flooding the mom's body with chemicals that can impact her ability to deliver the baby safely and the baby's ability to respond healthily in its first few hours outside the mother's body.

Elvensilver
2019-01-30, 10:06 AM
by J-H
The 2nd level spell "Deliver Baby," the 3rd level spell "Caesarian Section" when that doesn't work, and the accompanying first level spell "Sterilize room."
Or the cantrip "protection".
http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1120.html (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1120.html)
Which would result in a much lower birthrate and a more modern demographic.

ShurikVch
2019-01-30, 10:10 AM
Check the Ghustil (http://molivero.com/dndtools/USRD/srd/classes/prestigeDunmag/ghustil.html)'s spell list, and spells which High Handcrafter (http://molivero.com/dndtools/USRD/srd/classes/prestigeDunmag/highHandcrafter.html) able to put into Earth Talismans

Duke of Urrel
2019-01-30, 10:38 AM
Food preservation is a snap with spells like Ray of Frost and Cone of Cold.

The Plant Growth spell increases food production enough to enable fewer people to grow more food, so that more people can do things other than farm.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-01-30, 11:02 AM
Tears to WineErr... You really don't want to use this spell on anything nasty, like sewage, as it only lasts 10 minutes per level, and after that time, the wine turns back into whatever it was before. So cast it on sewage, drink the resulting wine, and in 10 minutes or so...

liquidformat
2019-01-30, 01:10 PM
Err... You really don't want to use this spell on anything nasty, like sewage, as it only lasts 10 minutes per level, and after that time, the wine turns back into whatever it was before. So cast it on sewage, drink the resulting wine, and in 10 minutes or so...

What I am hearing is this is a great way to assassinate someone with ingestable poison....

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-01-30, 01:14 PM
What I am hearing is this is a great way to assassinate someone with ingestable poison....You do have a point. I wonder if there's a way to turn it from mediocre wine into really nice wine.

Just not Kool-Aid. That's been done to...err...death.

Particle_Man
2019-01-30, 01:23 PM
As shown in the comic, Dancing Lights can be used for signals, and as an emergency flare, by firing them straight up.

Detect Evil could keep nefarious agents out of town (well, some of them - the ones that don't have a workaround, anyhow - and in Pathfinder, it won't keep the lower level ones out. Still . . .). For law-abiding towns, Detect Chaos might also be used for similar reasons. Detect Poison would, I assume, be routine for foods if there was a risk of bad agents. I would say it is good for tainted food too but if you have Purify Food and Drink that doesn't matter.

Purify food and drink would allow for safe cannibalism (which could be one way to reduce the number of undead around). But there are cultural mores vs. cannibalism so that might not happen. Still, in a fantasy world, who knows? Dark Sun Halflings were a thing.

Speaking of food, Goodberry is AMAZING! Talk about being able to travel light! Endure Elements and maybe Longstrider are good here too. So patrols could go further, trade could increase, etc.

Speak with Animals might allow for some more understanding with the critters (some of whom would otherwise be a problem for Commoners). It might lead to more vegetarianism, mind. Harder to eat a being you had a conversation with. Not impossible, but harder. :smallbiggrin:

Quench stops fires. Firefighters would kill for this spell.

Tiny Hut is great for sheltering refugees.

Whispering Wind get messages very far indeed. I could see a relay system getting messages to nearby towns if needed.

SangoProduction
2019-01-30, 04:25 PM
I've been really impressed with the number and variety of responses so far.

Quarian Rex
2019-01-30, 05:24 PM
If you're willing to go 3PP then The Practical Enchanter (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51242/The-Practical-Enchanter) has a feat called Hedge Magic that provides a crapton of spells known of 0th-2nd level that have virtually no combat application but massive domestic utility. Things like Call Domestic Animal, Extract Butter, Soothe Infant, Remove Lice, Dentistry, Turn Soil, and Tree to Lumber (to name a few).

It amused me that the feat notes that...


Anyone with a level or two of sorcerer and this feat becomes much more popular, welcome at family gatherings, and marriageable. Hedge Wizards tend to be vital members of their communities.

Maat Mons
2019-01-30, 06:33 PM
And Unseen Servants/Servant Hordes crush a ton of low-wage jobs if they're being cast for "free," while also getting tons of people out of dangerous dirty jobs.

Animating undead and using them as a workforce can spark an industrial revolution without industry.

I don't think you guys have accounted for the fury wage slaves would feel at losing their back-breaking, soul-crushing jobs.

Selion
2019-01-30, 08:02 PM
A gold piece, according to today's gold price, equals to about 300 dollars.
An everburning torch, the cheapest magic item with a permanent effect, should cost about 27 thousand dollars in our economy.
I think that in the usual high fantasy setting the value is more or less the same, if we compare it to the hirelings' price per day.
So, if we had magic in our society, it wouldn't change our life, unless we were millionaires.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-01-30, 08:26 PM
A gold piece, according to today's gold price, equals to about 300 dollars.
An everburning torch, the cheapest magic item with a permanent effect, should cost about 27 thousand dollars in our economy.
I think that in the usual high fantasy setting the value is more or less the same, if we compare it to the hirelings' price per day.
So, if we had magic in our society, it wouldn't change our life, unless we were millionaires.That particular example isn't the best one, as long-term, battery-operated light sources are really easy to acquire in today's world.

Still, something like a repeating heal or regeneration trap? That thing would be invaluable. As in, entire countries would go to war for decades (if not centuries) over it. Or a psychoactive skin of proteus. And forget a repeating trap of true resurrection.

Selion
2019-01-30, 09:05 PM
That particular example isn't the best one, as long-term, battery-operated light sources are really easy to acquire in today's world.

Still, something like a repeating heal or regeneration trap? That thing would be invaluable. As in, entire countries would go to war for decades (if not centuries) over it. Or a psychoactive skin of proteus. And forget a repeating trap of true resurrection.

It would change nations' behavior, it would change war and politics, but common people won't have their domestic magic item.
On a second thought there are a few spells on which a mid class person would spend her entire wealth: at the same change a scroll of raise dead would be priced at 2 million dollars, i can see a man selling his house and falling into debts to raise from death his daughter or his beloved.
A charm scroll would be priced around 8000 dollars, some madman may spend this much to have a date with his crush (just to see her making the saving throw: FRIENDZONED!)
The point is that anything magic would be extremely overpriced, consequently being a first level wizard would make one hell of profession

Maat Mons
2019-01-30, 10:10 PM
A gold piece, according to today's gold price, equals to about 300 dollars.

My preferred metric is this: According to the Profession skill, untrained laborers make one silver piece for a day's work, on average. According to the internet, the lowest national average for wages is 13 cents (adjusted to US currency), in Bangladesh. That would work out to $1.04 for an 8-hour workday. This means that, in a rough sense, we can say that 1 silver piece is about equivalent to 1 dollar.

ExLibrisMortis
2019-01-30, 10:16 PM
Using the 300 dollars per gp conversion, the following items all cost 600 dollars: a backpack, a barrel, a bottle of wine, a chest, a crowbar, a spade, a set of scales.

D&D pricing is weird, I know, but I think 1:300 is not right. The gold price on Earth is higher than the D&D gold price. I'd say it's closer to 1:30. Still doesn't mean magic items are cheap, exactly, but much more reasonable. Also, don't forget that stationary magic items are 1/4th price, so that everburning torch comes in at 675 dollars for a lamppost (post not included).

Edit: Maat Mons' calculation is very good. It puts the lamppost at about 225 dollars.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-01-30, 10:20 PM
The cost of a gold piece in a modern USD is about $300.

The worth in-game is significantly less.

Fizban
2019-01-31, 05:20 AM
I don't think you guys have accounted for the fury wage slaves would feel at losing their back-breaking, soul-crushing jobs.
That's why I said "crush." Getting rid of dangerous jobs is nice, but you'll also tick off a lot of people by instantly removing their jobs. Didn't stop roboticized manufacturing, but if you want to have your game during the rough period, you can.

zlefin
2019-01-31, 07:59 AM
Using the 300 dollars per gp conversion, the following items all cost 600 dollars: a backpack, a barrel, a bottle of wine, a chest, a crowbar, a spade, a set of scales.

D&D pricing is weird, I know, but I think 1:300 is not right. The gold price on Earth is higher than the D&D gold price. I'd say it's closer to 1:30. Still doesn't mean magic items are cheap, exactly, but much more reasonable. Also, don't forget that stationary magic items are 1/4th price, so that everburning torch comes in at 675 dollars for a lamppost (post not included).

Edit: Maat Mons' calculation is very good. It puts the lamppost at about 225 dollars.

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragraph is. because that might be a good approximation of their relative cost within the dnd world.
in our world the cost is lower ofc, but that's because modern manufacturing techniques + energy availability greatly reduced the cost of items like that.

Geddy2112
2019-01-31, 11:27 AM
Err... You really don't want to use this spell on anything nasty, like sewage, as it only lasts 10 minutes per level, and after that time, the wine turns back into whatever it was before. So cast it on sewage, drink the resulting wine, and in 10 minutes or so...

Not exactly. The spell text says” This spell turns nonmagic liquids—including spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated drinks, tears, seawater, and similar fluids—into mead or wine of average quality. This spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage.“ this last part is really important as it implies that the material will last long enough for natural spoilage, so this effect would be more permanent. Even if not properly stored, you have some time before the wine goes bad.

The 10min/level applies to the +2/5/10 enhancement bonus to int/wis based skill checks. Even if the liquid only stays wine for 10min/level, it is still a stronger choice to enhance water than the spell enhance water. You could still use it on normal water to make booze that makes you smart.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-01-31, 12:43 PM
Not exactly. The spell text says” This spell turns nonmagic liquids—including spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated drinks, tears, seawater, and similar fluids—into mead or wine of average quality. This spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage.“ this last part is really important as it implies that the material will last long enough for natural spoilage, so this effect would be more permanent. Even if not properly stored, you have some time before the wine goes bad.

The 10min/level applies to the +2/5/10 enhancement bonus to int/wis based skill checks. Even if the liquid only stays wine for 10min/level, it is still a stronger choice to enhance water than the spell enhance water. You could still use it on normal water to make booze that makes you smart. That may have been the intent, but the Duration line screws that up. Even the text says that spoilage is not prevented at the spell's end, and I can't think of worse ways to spoil something than to turn it back into sewage.

SangoProduction
2019-01-31, 12:58 PM
That may have been the intent, but the Duration line screws that up. Even the text says that spoilage is not prevented at the spell's end, and I can't think of worse ways to spoil something than to turn it back into sewage.

Except I can hardly imagine wine magically transforming in to sewage as counting as "subsequent natural decay or spoilage."

What's that line that's so often used here? "Why go with an interpretation that doesn't make sense, and isn't intended, when there's a perfectly adequate interpretation on the table."

Or something to that effect.

thorr-kan
2019-01-31, 09:59 PM
If you're willing to go 3PP then The Practical Enchanter (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51242/The-Practical-Enchanter) has a feat called Hedge Magic that provides a crapton of spells known of 0th-2nd level that have virtually no combat application but massive domestic utility. Things like Call Domestic Animal, Extract Butter, Soothe Infant, Remove Lice, Dentistry, Turn Soil, and Tree to Lumber (to name a few).

It amused me that the feat notes that...
THAT'S interesting...why haven't I run across this before?

And currently free at DriveThruRPG.

Quarian Rex
2019-01-31, 10:25 PM
THAT'S interesting...why haven't I run across this before?

And currently free at DriveThruRPG.

It's one of my favorite books, full of all kinds of gold, and I try to shine a little light on it when I can.

Zaq
2019-02-01, 01:08 AM
Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?202783-Build-Semichallenge-The-Alfred-Sorcerer) an ancient thread of mine that explored this concept a tiny bit.

That old thread had a slightly different twist, namely that the character is intended to be a "house mage" at a noble manor who had a spell load that DID allow adventuring but that ALSO fit the criteria of "every spell known being useful in a peaceful domestic scenario." But, you know, kind of two sides of the same coin, after a fashion.

Fizban
2019-02-01, 10:13 AM
Alright, let's comb some lists:


Dancing Lights: signalling, as well as spotlighting targets, at least until the duration runs out.
Daze: this is a fine disruption against almost anyone for law enforcement- unless your source of higher level casters is a general increase of the levels on everyone.
Know Direction: if compasses have not been discovered, this makes their discovery unnecessary if you can replace with caster.
Mage Hand: some application in handling hazardous materials, inferior to Unseen Servant.
Mending: non-magical rejoining is impossible or inferior to the original, Mending doesn't care.
Message: very short range (relative to IRL) radios are self explanatory.
Open/Close: useful for breaching hazardous entries.
Prestidigitation: actually OP by the given uses in Tome and Blood, but yeah that's all handy.
Create Water: inferior to DMG items, but handy in a pinch or so you don't have to visit the central item.
Cure Minor: all that is required to stabilize.
Purify Food and Drink: as mentioned, an item that can spam this is even more significant than Create Water by also obviating food storage problems, if you do so every day. SBG has it in table form.
Detect Magic: obvious uses are obvious, and the Brazier of Aura Revealing [Magic] (SBG), while a bit hazy, is clearly meant to make this cheaply usable. If casters of Magic Aura are freely available, then Detect Magic is not proof against items at all. But it is proof against effects on creatures, because there's no Magic Aura for creatures: the braizer will tell you if someone has any active spells, period.
Detect Poison: useful for checking that food and water, but less so than a "Detect Disease" would be.
Detect Disease (Oriental Adventures, Shaman 0): get that ported.
Arcane Mark: more useful as a brand that wears off rather than one which doesn't, I find the "unique signature" aspect less awesome than most- no one cares about notarization until you've climbed a lot more society tech.
Ray of Frost: cold damage does hardly anything, wait for higher level spells.

Amanuensis (SpC 0): only copies a few pages, so without a spammable item scribes still do far more in a day, but still useful for perfectly copying ornate text. Relative ease of use is probably enough that copying scribes vanish anyway, since it's more productive for them to do something else and just wait for more castings of this. Original spell level was 3rd by the way, the cantrip is obviously much huger.


Alarm: notice that Alarm isn't a trap, so it's actually proof against anyone without dispel or serious shrink magic, even trained Rogues.
Cause Fear/Hypnotism/Sleep/Command: like Daze but better.
Charm Person: depends too strongly on DM interpretation to make claims of wide effects.
Comprehend Languages: if your world has a realistic number of languages, this is *huge*. If it's normal DnD, it's handy. SBG has it in room form.
Detect Secret Doors: note that unless the entire wall and secret door are made of lead, you can't really block this one at all. Secret doors are usually quite secure against most people, but DSD means that anyone with access can scan for them very easily.
Disguise Self: more limited than some people might think, but the self-only and 10 min/level time are the most significant.
Endure Elements: protection/comfort against some hazardous jobs, but otherwise normal clothes are good enough. People with access might have some fun with it though.
Feather Fall: not much effect unless you can put it on everyone at all times, but it does enable quick escapes from certain buildings.
Unseen Servant/Servant Horde: as stated, sufficient cl spam gets people out of dangerous jobs, but can also heavily impact job availability, espeically if magic items are used. The SBG Wondrous Architecture version is weirdly expensive and easily permanently "killed," so it won't do much on its own.
Detect [Alignment]: as useful or useless as alignment is in your world, espeically how those writing/enforcing the law feel about it.
Calm Animals: a major boon for anyone around animals, this flawlessly prevents non-combat trained animals from attacking, or allows a save.
Goodberry: heavily limited by the requirement of "fresh" berries, if you can get around that you've beat Create Food and Water by two levels.
Hide From Animals: counters guard dogs.
Speak With Animals: even more of a boon for animal workers, and also turns any animal into a security risk. SBG has it in room form.
Mount/Regal Procession: horses are expensive, if casters are cheaper then Mount will be popular, and even if not the summoned horse you don't care about can be worked to exhaustion powering equipment.
Floating Disk: cheaper than a cart and mule, but far less capacity and has to be re-loaded.
Silent Image: use highly dependent on DM interpretation, but common use of this spell will ensure that people expect illusions. Great for signaling with more cl for size.

Traveler's Mount (SpC, Drd1): increases and then effectively doubles a mount's speed, unless the DM lets Phantom Steeds hustle/run endlessly, this is the overland spell to beat.
Discern Bloodline (Races of Destiny, Sor/Wis 1): ferret out people's races, regular use will desensitize people to will saves and make it less likely they'll notice Detect Thoughts. There are other detect Xblood spells in various books.
Detect Weaponry (City, Sor/Wiz 1): detect anything a person intends to use as a weapon, unless it's guarded by Secret Weapon. Which you'd counter with Detect Magic, unless they also have Magic Aura.
Scholar's Touch (RoDe, Sor/Wiz 1): research times are now meaningless, because you can spam this to insta-cram the books.
Dispel Ward (SpC, Clr/Sor/Wiz 1): spammable to remove abjurations, like Alarm.
Lay of the Land (Rgr 1, others 4): know the terrain for a 50 mile radius around you, map huge areas without having to walk them or needing magic for an aerial view.

Magic Mouth (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 2): this spell uses a completely unbounded "as detailed as desired. . . only visual and audible triggers." Magic Mouth can be anywhere, triggered by anything, and the message/screaming it produces can then trigger other things. At 10gp per cast, you can get real spammy and creative.
Obscure Object (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 2, Clr 3): 3-4 castings per day perfectly hides an object from [scrying]. As important or not as [scrying] is.
Darsson's Breeze (Shining South, Sor/Wiz 1): keep the windmill spinning (doesn't actually push ships because its stationary, no wind spell actually does this right).

Animal Messenger/Whispering Wind: these core communication spells are handy, but inferior to Whispering Sand.
Blindness/Deafness: as a not only Permanent, but also Dismissable spell, this is extremely useful for law enforcement and commensurately terrifying for criminals to face.
Calm Emotions: seems like it should stop a riot but someone's bound to make their save, and a single aggressive action from anyone breaks the spell.
Delay Poison: as mentioned, combine this with sufficient Heal skill and you can walk straight into poison thanks to the hax of game mechanics.
Detect Thoughts: saving throws alert people, so unless they're savvy enough to dupe themselves into thinking just got pinged by a Scrying spell, this won't go unnoticed. Still heavily subject to DM interpretation.
Enthrall: interpretation of "undivided attention and ignore their surroundings" can make this ridiculous, but no matter what it's still the most powerful "crowd control" by affecting literally any number of creatures in Medium range, and ensnares any who enter. Here's your riot control, as well as potential scam or terrorist fodder.
Locate Object: stolen items should be protected in lead, as should anything else important.
Misdirection: the save means this spell, which would otherwise be the best protection, is terrible.
Pyrotechnics: a strong combat spell in general, great for law enforcement too, SBG has a brazier for defending places.
Aid: notable because when applied to most people the temp hp make them *drastically* harder to kill. It can be put in Hallow, which depending on DM reading, could be leveraged to ludicrous effect in defense of a place.
Gentle Repose: easy access to this removes the time limits on raising, which could be significant, but food preservation is already covered by Purify.
Zone of Truth: you can easily make sure they aren't under Glibness, but unless the DM says you're aware of who makes their saves as a general magic rule, this spell simply cannot be relied upon.
Soften Earth and Stone: drastically speeds/eases excavation of stone areas, and no Permanent problems either- it's just clay now.
Wood Shape: easy access to this means quick breaching of wooden walls- DnD seems to assume all wood or stone walls though, with no provisions for medieval wattle and daub walls.
Arcane Lock: you can already buy locks out of range of low-level pickers, but Arcane Lock obviously has its place. Particularly if the DM exercises their right to rule certain weapons innefective against certain objects, preventing most people from hacking through the door either. SBG has a version that can attune people other than the caster, and Sharn: City of Towers has a garbage version which also begets a stupid item.
Continual Flame: obvious.
Alter Self: less useful than Disguise Self in 3.5, since it's become totally not polymorph cheese and lost the ability to fake clothing.
Knock: and if Knock is easily available, then you need either really big locks, or Alarms and Magic Mouths.

Earthfast (SpC, Drd 2): massively toughen stone, insantaneously.
Dimension Leap (MoE, Sor/wiz 2): 2nd level teleport effect for earlier wall hax.
Dragoneye Rune (Dragon Magic, Sor/Wiz 2): lets you detect distance and direction to the marked creature or item 3/day until the arcane mark wears off. Great to avoid losing your tools, track missing persons or criminals or shipments, etc.
Share Husk (SpC, Drd 2): makes animals into greater security risks, lets you get a bird's eye view earlier than flight spells.
Chain of Eyes (SpC, Sor/Wiz 2/etc): makes everyone into a security risk, long duration sight ride on person has all sorts of uses.
Whispering Candle (Five Nations, Clr/Drd 2): bond a pair of candles for days, allowing two-way communication for quite a few hours. Longest duration two-way, but the courier requirement is rough. A Wondrous Architecture version wouldn't be very appropriate, because it should just be a Wondrous Item, a candle.
Darsson's Heat/Cold (Shining South, Sor/Wiz 2): this is the spell you want for keeping things cold, hours duration and Permanent-able).


Blink: walls, what walls?
Clairaudience/Voiyance: blocked by lead, useful when not. Best civillian use I can think of is scouting a collapsed mine or something.
Gaseous Form: teleportation is not needed to obviate walls, and gaseous incursions can basically only be stopped by magically airtight spaces (see SBG) but that's not civilian either. The best counter is active guards with magic weapons to strike while they're vulnerable.
Illusory Script: a triggered Suggestion effect is dangerous enough everyone should be examining their mail under Detect Magic. And then spamming dispel anyway, because anyone with Illusory Script can have Magic Aura to hide it. Alternatively, make sure you read under a Hallow or other anti-compulsion effect, and then scan yourself for active magic to be sure you're clean. Outside of that, it's a secret message that can't be read except with the much higher level True Seeing, which will also automatically self-destruct in a few days (or if the caster is in range and takes an action to dismiss it).
Secret Page: doesn't say anyone else can reveal it, so this is personal-only security, not a usable cipher.
Major Image: an illusory theater troupe would undoubtedly do well, but they need Major Image to produce speech, otherwise they have to voiceover and it's gonna be jank.
Sculpt Sound: it's like Silence for stealth, but without the glaringly obvious lack of sound. Also useful for reducing the noise of stuff like smithing or machinery, without driving people insane from the lack of sound (look it up, people freak out when put in the quietest room in the world). SBG has a room of Silence though.
Sepia Snake Sigil: the massive cost of this spell is prohibitive, the days long stasis can't be beat for securing dangerous prisoners.
Bestow Curse: permanent, and while it doesn't have the cl requirement of Mark of Justice, still relatively hard to remove. Splatbooks include alternate uses such as sterility, which if your setting lacks the birth control plats of FR or other spells, makes Bestow Curse the premier in birth control.
Create Food and Water: SBG has the Everfull Larder, which is just straight up infinite food and water.
Dispel Magic: if you have lots of people capable of using Dispel Magic, then Permanent spells go from being safer than objects to merely different.
Deeper Darkness: the massive duration and the fact that this spell is cast on objects, means that anyone who wants magical darkness to hand can easily have it even without the caster nearby.
Magic Circle Against Alignment: if the DM rules that the save is only for the targeted creature, then you can suppress mind control simply by getting close to someone with a Magic Circle active. Otherwise you have to drag them into a Hallow.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: disease can be quarantined and heal checked, but this spell means that even if the DM says sight and hearing deteriorate with age, they actually don't.
Speak with Dead: obvious applications for law enforcement, and ethical quandaries where a dead subject may be a better source of information than a live one.
Stone Shape: massively eases stonework and allows re-fusing of stone, tacit use of this is nigh required for the concept of dungeons and fantasy castles to exist.
Water Breathing: obvious applications for sea-trappers and salvagers, and underwater buildings. SBG has it in room form.
Wind Wall: an expensive and narrow countermeasure that disrupts your own troops, but if you want it, SBG can put it above your walls.
Neutralize Poison: Druids have it at 3rd, one step better than delaying.
Spike Growth: this spell is capable of fatally wounding and/or "pinning" huge swathes of commoners immediately, as well as slowing and wounding anyone who tries to pass through it. Good for terror and defense.
Speak With Plants: even the plants are a security risk (the stones will be too, at Drd 6).
Quench: yup, that's a great firefighting spell to have on hand.
Glyph of Warding, Explosive Runes: traps.
Phantom Steed: the minimum speed of 100' is pretty huge, but some DMs let it hustle or run forever as well. You could allow a custom Wondrous Architecture platform that makes a Phantom Steed for anyone that activates it, allowing some serious mass transit- Wind Walk is better, but you've given a 3rd level spell limit.

Skull Watch (SpC, Sor/Wiz 3): extremely loud alarm, defeatable via physics.
Sign of Sealing (SpC, Sor/Wiz 3): can create permanent forcewalls to seal passages.
Anticipate Teleportation (SpC, Sor/Wiz 3): delays incoming teleports by one round and notifies caster, a Wondrous Architecture version would be a great idea. Combine with other low-level anti-teleport tactics.
Forest Voice (Complete Champion, Drd 3): lets you communicate through a pair of Medium or larger plants, but you can't aim at a person and it only lasts 1 min/level (they also have to be alive).
Forest Eyes (CCh, Drd 3): lets you scry a plant of the same kind)
Whispering Sand (Sandstorm, Drd/Sor/Wiz 3): this is the ultimate in two-way communication spells, letting you ping either a place or a person, the only requirement being 1 lb of sand, dust, or ash on their person (if they're not already surrounded by it). Any place with a caster that can use it can contact anywhere they need to, make a WA room of it and just talk all day if you want.



Well that took a few hours. Manually through the srd, then skimmed some more out of my Significant Spells doc. In the absence of Wall of Fire there's no serious contender for steam power, unless you can make a custom item based on the psionic Control Flame. I never did that calculations for that one though.