"The Goy": What is it, do I want it?

[petermcleod117]

Hey, I was looking for manuals I do not have yet, and I stumbled upon this one:
https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/67478/goy
I know from a certain online list that it has some customized base classes, which is my bread and butter so to speak, and from the title I would assume it would have something to do with medieval Judaism and Christianity.
However, I can't find a product description, or a place to buy it for that matter. I assume it's on drivethrurpg, but the site is down right now for some reason so I can't access it. Even if I were to find it there, I wouldn't know what I would be getting, which is not exactly an ideal circumstance.
On that note, has anyone bought this thing, and have an description of it or opinion of it that they would wish to share?

[weckar]

An 18 year old book, teeny-tiny publisher that has long since gone out of business... I wish you luck, really.

Edit: a quick search reveals that it is now being published by 1d6 Games. Available on DTRPG.

[petermcleod117]

An 18 year old book, teeny-tiny publisher that has long since gone out of business... I wish you luck, really.

Edit: a quick search reveals that it is now being published by 1d6 Games. Available on DTRPG.

ah, yes, the site is back up. with a discription to boot! thanks

[Goladar]

Soooo..... What exactly is in this book?

[Jack_Simth]

Soooo..... What exactly is in this book?

Apparently you can purchase it Here (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16511/The-Goy?manufacturers_id=422&it=1) for about $2. The page has a teaser; looks like it adds a race, with some associated feats, classes, PrC's, templates, templates, and items.

[Buufreak]

Someone actually made a class race named after the Yiddish insult? You have my interest.

[Goladar]

Someone actually made a class race named after the Yiddish insult? You have my interest.

Goy isn't an insult and it's not Yiddish. It's Hebrew and it means "nation". It's essentially the hebrew word for gentile.

[ezekielraiden]

Goy isn't an insult and it's not Yiddish. It's Hebrew and it means "nation". It's essentially the hebrew word for gentile.

While you are correct about its origin (Hebrew) and its strict denotation, Dictionary.com disagrees (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/goy) with you on both other counts (it is also Yiddish, and "usually disparaging.") Other sources, such as Wikipedia, go to rather great pains to indicate that it isn't inherently any more insulting than "gentile." This would seem to imply that it is at least colloquially used with a pejorative sense enough that people feel it must be defended against the assertion that it's always insulting. Some assert their right to use a word that has a normal origin and no offensive intent; others disagree (https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/jewish-n-word/) and think the word should be avoided (except in technical, native-Yiddish/Hebrew, and religious usage) simply because it's not how people want to be referred to.

Many words fall into the dysphemism treadmill. This is just one more. (Consider "colored people" today, which is dysphemistic despite the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, while "people/person of color" is fine, as are variations like "woman of color.") Recognizing that the root is not pejorative, but the modern usage frequently is pejorative, is not a bad thing. What one does with that from there is one's own decision.

[Ashiel]

While you are correct about its origin (Hebrew) and its strict denotation, Dictionary.com disagrees (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/goy) with you on both other counts (it is also Yiddish, and "usually disparaging.") Other sources, such as Wikipedia, go to rather great pains to indicate that it isn't inherently any more insulting than "gentile." This would seem to imply that it is at least colloquially used with a pejorative sense enough that people feel it must be defended against the assertion that it's always insulting. Some assert their right to use a word that has a normal origin and no offensive intent; others disagree (https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/jewish-n-word/) and think the word should be avoided (except in technical, native-Yiddish/Hebrew, and religious usage) simply because it's not how people want to be referred to.
Interesting. From a technical perspective, it seems like forbidding people to use a word's non-hostile meaning is effectively just killing off any hope that the word could be "cleaned up". Any word could become offensive. Probably the greatest example is the word "special". In the 90s, people tried to dissuade people from using the word "retard" (which literally means slowed or hindered) particularly as an insult due to associations with mental disability. In an effort to sound nicer, they referred to mental disability has "special" or "special needs", which just in turn resulted in the use of the word special as a pejorative. Someone does something stupid? In the 80s they might have said "Dude, that's retarded". These days, they smirk and say "Aw, you're so special". In the end of the day, you're still saying the exact same thing but special got mud on its face. :smallannoyed:

[Jack_Simth]

Interesting. From a technical perspective, it seems like forbidding people to use a word's non-hostile meaning is effectively just killing off any hope that the word could be "cleaned up". Any word could become offensive. Probably the greatest example is the word "special". In the 90s, people tried to dissuade people from using the word "retard" (which literally means slowed or hindered) particularly as an insult due to associations with mental disability. In an effort to sound nicer, they referred to mental disability has "special" or "special needs", which just in turn resulted in the use of the word special as a pejorative. Someone does something stupid? In the 80s they might have said "Dude, that's retarded". These days, they smirk and say "Aw, you're so special". In the end of the day, you're still saying the exact same thing but special got mud on its face. :smallannoyed:
It's happened to a lot of words. Words take on meaning and emotional weight from how they are used, what folks feel about whatever the word references, how they are said, and a few other things. Attempting to force folks to avoid a pejorative almost always results in another forming, and nothing gained by the effort (well, except among individual careers that are made or ruined by the transition).

[Ashiel]

It's happened to a lot of words. Words take on meaning and emotional weight from how they are used, what folks feel about whatever the word references, how they are said, and a few other things. Attempting to force folks to avoid a pejorative almost always results in another forming, and nothing gained by the effort (well, except among individual careers that are made or ruined by the transition).
That's kind of what I was thinking. As a result I don't demonize words (and try not to demonize those who use them). There's often something precious under that first layer of grime.

[Particle_Man]

So is the game using this word without knowing about the "insult" part, or is it deliberately using the word in an effort to reclaim it (as "queer" has been reclaimed by the LGBTI community)?

[Kalkra]

I think the word "goy" was used primarily by people who considered saying that someone wasn't Jewish to be an insult. I suspect that had they been speaking exclusively in English, the word "gentile" would have the same connotations. It's just that there was a linguistic shift and the same time as a cultural one, so the word "goy" isn't used as much, nor is the concept considered to be as inherently insulting.

[Buufreak]

I only brought up the point because anytime my girlfriend's grandmother called me a goy or (the apparently more obviously insulting) shishka, she took it as rude and that I should be at least slightly insulted. For reference, they were both Hebrew in faith but also spoke Yiddish.

[Ashiel]

I only brought up the point because anytime my girlfriend's grandmother called me a goy or (the apparently more obviously insulting) shishka, she took it as rude and that I should be at least slightly insulted. For reference, they were both Hebrew in faith but also spoke Yiddish.
Urban Dictionary tells me this is a very interesting word. :smalltongue: