What's the goal

[Stryyke]

So you've built a character that you can be proud of. You've taken him from lvl 1 - 20. You are finally able to complete "The Ultimate Summon," where you summon the most powerful deity/demon. You have them trapped, and they are at your mercy. So ummmmmmm. What do you do with them? Supposedly they can give you something, but what do you ask for?

[martixy]

So you've built a character that you can be proud of. You've taken him from lvl 1 - 20. You are finally able to complete "The Ultimate Summon," where you summon the most powerful deity/demon. You have them trapped, and they are at your mercy. So ummmmmmm. What do you do with them? Supposedly they can give you something, but what do you ask for?

You play the game from L1 to L20 to find the answer to that question.

[razorback]

So you've built a character that you can be proud of. You've taken him from lvl 1 - 20. You are finally able to complete "The Ultimate Summon," where you summon the most powerful deity/demon. You have them trapped, and they are at your mercy. So ummmmmmm. What do you do with them? Supposedly they can give you something, but what do you ask for?

Endless Serving Tray of Bacon Nachos with extra Bacon. And real cheese, not that cheese-like substance they give to you at the movie theatre. With the perfect amount of marinated chicken, jalepenos, tomatos, avocado, onions, green onions and olives.

[Zaq]

Eh, I find it unrealistic that you'd play a character for 20 levels and that you'd end up doing this "Ultimate Summon" thing without knowing what you want to gain out of it. Either the character would in fact already have their own goal or you'd know by then that this is the kind of character who would do this sort of thing truly just for the sake of knowing that they could accomplish it.

[Stryyke]

Eh, I find it unrealistic that you'd play a character for 20 levels and that you'd end up doing this "Ultimate Summon" thing without knowing what you want to gain out of it. Either the character would in fact already have their own goal or you'd know by then that this is the kind of character who would do this sort of thing truly just for the sake of knowing that they could accomplish it.

Well there are 2 factors.

A) I sort of already accomplished everything I wanted to through other means.
B) I've been building to this moment as a summoner, and go through with it just because it's the pinnacle.

But once you've got said deity/demon there, you don't want to just say "Cool I got you. You can go away now." You want to get something out of it. But having accomplished all my other goals, I'm a bit stumped.

[Bohandas]

Break the world out of pseudomedieval stagnation

[Zaq]

Well there are 2 factors.

A) I sort of already accomplished everything I wanted to through other means.
B) I've been building to this moment as a summoner, and go through with it just because it's the pinnacle.

But once you've got said deity/demon there, you don't want to just say "Cool I got you. You can go away now." You want to get something out of it. But having accomplished all my other goals, I'm a bit stumped.

Really, though? Have you been building up to this the whole time? Again, this isn't something that most people would just do. That's not a goal that people would tend to work up towards if they didn't know ahead of time that there was something they would gain out of it. My point is that the character really would likely have had some idea in mind before they started.

If you've actually been playing the character for a long time and you really did end up in this situation, then the only justification that makes sense in retrospect is that you just wanted to prove to yourself (or to a mentor, a loved one, a hated rival, etc.) that you could do it. But the reason that this feels awkward is because it is awkward. Few, if any, characters really would start on this road without some kind of reason. What got you interested in summoning in the first place?

[Crake]

Few, if any, characters really would start on this road without some kind of reason.

The problem, I suspect, is that the reason is an out of character one, and not an in character one. The player wanted to do it "because it's cool", the character just followed along. That is my suspcion anyway, I've seen many players aim to do similar things in my game, but I usually snip the problem in the bud before it blooms into a foul smelling rafflesia by asking the player "but why is your character doing this?"

[Particle_Man]

Leave it trapped. While it is trapped it can’t do its thing and maybe won’t be replaced because trapped is not dead. So you are, for instance, preventing a lot of evil by trapping the Most Important Demon, or preventing/reducing diseases by trapping the God or Diseases.

[DeTess]

Well there are 2 factors.

A) I sort of already accomplished everything I wanted to through other means.
B) I've been building to this moment as a summoner, and go through with it just because it's the pinnacle.

But once you've got said deity/demon there, you don't want to just say "Cool I got you. You can go away now." You want to get something out of it. But having accomplished all my other goals, I'm a bit stumped.

Why not say that? It seems that at this point the character's doing that just to show that they can. Alternatively, ask for something really small, just to show your dominance before sending them off.

[Red Fel]

Well there are 2 factors.

A) I sort of already accomplished everything I wanted to through other means.
B) I've been building to this moment as a summoner, and go through with it just because it's the pinnacle.

But once you've got said deity/demon there, you don't want to just say "Cool I got you. You can go away now." You want to get something out of it. But having accomplished all my other goals, I'm a bit stumped.

That's actually kind of an awesome character moment. You should play it exactly that way. Picture it.


The party gathers around as your Grand Summoner performs this act, an impossible proof of his perfect mastery of the art. The sky darkens, and a being of incomprehensible power takes form.

"Behold, mortal! I am the Eternal Dragon! You have done well in summoning me. In exchange for my release, I shall grant you any wish! What do you desire most of all?"

In a moment, the Summoner's life passes before his eyes. Everything he lost... Everything he gained. Everything he found along the way. And he realizes, to his surprise, that his life, once empty but for this single, all-consuming goal, has become full.

And he starts to laugh.

"Dragon," he says, once he can catch his breath. "There is nothing I desire that I do not already have. My life is complete. I had thought that, in perfecting my craft and summoning you, I could achieve all that I wanted, but in pursuit of that dream, I find that I already have what I need." He turns, passing his eye over the friends that got him there.

"The act was enough, I think. More than proving my skill to you, I have proven it to myself. I release you, Dragon. I ask for nothing in exchange."

With that, he breaks the seal binding the summoned being, and it fades from sight.
Of course, with that, it's up to your DM if he wants to reward you anyway. Like maybe the creature you summoned is so impressed with your decision that it grants you some kind of boon, or maybe an IOU for one wish later on.

Alternatively? Turn it into a horse. Seriously, just take that magical wish-granting ultimate summoned monster and turn it into your own personal horse. And not like a metaphorical horse, like you ride this terrible monster - I mean a literal horse. Turn it into a literal horse and ride it.

[Stryyke]

That's actually kind of an awesome character moment. You should play it exactly that way. Picture it.



You know, that's not a bad idea at all!

[Ashiel]

So you've built a character that you can be proud of. You've taken him from lvl 1 - 20. You are finally able to complete "The Ultimate Summon," where you summon the most powerful deity/demon. You have them trapped, and they are at your mercy. So ummmmmmm. What do you do with them? Supposedly they can give you something, but what do you ask for?
Tell them to be forevermore kind and promote the virtues of good, love, and happiness in the world.

[Psyren]

That's actually kind of an awesome character moment. You should play it exactly that way. Picture it.

The real planar binding was the friends we made along the way :smallbiggrin:

Me, I would put a darker twist on it - the being needed your help just to enter the world, and he's not truly at your mercy at all. But your skill as a summoner is needed to undo your mistake and get rid of it. (Or you can choose to help it with its machinations.)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Me, I would put a darker twist on it - the being needed your help just to enter the world, and he's not truly at your mercy at all.

I like this idea, but it could be awkward for the player. Because the first thing this entity should do is casually disembowel the puny insect who was talking all that smack.

:smalltongue:

[Psyren]

I like this idea, but it could be awkward for the player. Because the first thing this entity should do is casually disembowel the puny insect who was talking all that smack.

:smalltongue:

Well, I think there's a lot of daylight between "totally at your mercy" and "casually disembowel the puny insect." Perhaps he's free to do what he wishes, but he can't harm the person or group that actually brought him into the world (at least, not yet.) Or perhaps he comes in, but will take some time to reach full strength, which adds a ticking clock to the narrative. Or maybe he can kill the group right away, but due to arrogance or eagerness or even gratitude, he instead immediately sets out to remake the world in his image, sparing/underestimating the heroes that will (or could) eventually be his downfall.

In short, there's a lot of scenarios you can come up with that will lead to a climactic and satisfying boss fight that isn't a curbstomp for either side - if a boss fight is the way you want to end such a campaign, anyway. And it doesn't have to be a traditional boss battle either - maybe it can be a battle of wits, or a race to a macguffin, or enlisting a Bigger Fish to take it down, or even involve time travel and battling yourself before you can doom the world. Like I said, lots of scenarios.

[Stryyke]

Perhaps the deity does try to kill the puny insect, but finds that he can't. So he flees the scene to gather strength and find out how to kill the player! Obviously, a summoner only summons into places where he has an extreme advantage, so the protections are enough to allow the player to overcome the demon/deity. So the being flees to another place on the plane to gather strength, and lure the player to a place where it has an advantage.

[Bronk]

So you've built a character that you can be proud of. You've taken him from lvl 1 - 20. You are finally able to complete "The Ultimate Summon," where you summon the most powerful deity/demon.

Research and find the Godtrap from Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk. Then, summon a deity (I'm assuming this is a thing you can do somehow based on your OP), trap it, repeat the process 7 times, and finally use the artifact to achieve godhood.

[zlefin]

be the very best, like noone ever was.

sing the first pokemon opening!
then make them go around on tour with you singing it :D

[Zaq]

That's actually kind of an awesome character moment. You should play it exactly that way. Picture it.

[snip]



Hmm. Now that I think about it, wasn't that basically the ending of Shovel Knight: Plague of Shadows?

Plague Knight, being an alchemist, has spent his career seeking the ingredients for a potion of ultimate power--it's described as being able to give him whatever he wants. The ingredients are the plot coupons that the player has been collecting for the duration of the game, so of course you end up getting them all and brewing The Potion.

Once it's physically in his hand, though, he doesn't end up drinking it. He releases the energy stored in it for a giant explosion to bring down the bad guy's tower and escape with his lab assistant, with whom he has fallen in love (and he's just realized that the feeling is mutual). There's a nice line where she asks him if he's sure he wants to sacrifice his life's work, the potion that can give him anything he wants, and he responds that he already has everything he wants.

Sure, the specifics are a bit skewed from the Twoo Wuv element. Even so, it's an example of a character spending a long time seeking something that should be able to meet whatever desire they can come up with, then realizing/acknowledging upon receipt of the ultimate power that they no longer have anything they particularly need from it.

(We'll gloss over the fact that the idea of a potion that can give you anything you want is just a little bit weird when you try to think about the specifics. It's Shovel Knight. It's not supposed to be super serious.)

[mucat]

You a Harry Dresden fan? Ask for a donut, with sprinkles.

Of course, the thing that made that moment so awesome in the Dresden books was that Harry <i>did</i> need something from the unstoppable wizard-killing Eldest Gruff who was honor-bound to destroy him, but owed him one favor first. He needed time, and the Gruff respected his reason for needing that time, so rather than conjuring a donut into existence and proceeding to pound Harry into a greasy smear, it traveled back to Chicago to find a proper donut shop.

So if there's nothing you really want from this demon/deity, is there any way you or those you care about could benefit from <i>taking it out of play</i> at a crucial moment, because it is answering your silly summons?