How Does One Roleplay a High Level Wizard?

[Mildly Inept]

The latest iteration of the Wizard vs Fighter wars got me thinking. How exactly is one supposed to roleplay an optimized high level Wizard in 3.5? I genuinely don't understand how to get in the head of such a person, and I say that as someone who had fun playing a Wizard in 5e. The Cleric, I get. Yeah, he's Tier 1, but he's still just a guy. His powers boil down to "My dad can beat up your dad." If Pelor decides the Cleric's a jerk, he's just three-quarters of a Fighter. He requests miracles, he doesn't create them.

Like, on a fundamental level, the guy has basically transcended all the constraints of petty humanity (or elvendom or dwarvenkind or whatever.) The constraints of space, time, mortality, and material scarcity simply do not apply to him. His intelligence has been boosted far beyond what is even possible to achieve via non-magical means. He has his own personal demiplane. The memories, personalities, and very souls of other people are nothing but a math problem to him and he can make X equal whatever he wants. He has a near-perfect mathematical understanding of the underpinnings of the universe itself and can make them bend to his will. He doesn't even have to physically interact with the world, as he can just use astral projection from his demiplane. An epic level Wizard is far closer to Dr. Manhattan than Dumbledore.

How does one play what is effectively an alien god?

[Kayblis]

I like the archetype of the Eternal Learner. Much like Demiliches are ancient Liches that spend most of their time drifting through the astral plane looking for a shred of knowledge they still haven't gotten, so does a high-level, high-op Wizard. All his powers come from his knowledge and study, and unless he's the absolute strongest in the multiverse, there's still something left for him to learn. With the fact that the position of God is hardly ever threatened, becoming one would be a nice addition to its repertoire, and then there's many ranks of godhood, and then maybe you could one day sit up there with Pelor and Wee Jas for a chat and 5D chess, and then one day you might hear rumors about this alien concept of "Overgod"...

One of the few guarantees you have in D&D cosmology is that there's always a bigger fish. An epic Wizard can be motivated by curiosity much more than other beings can be by greed or pride. And let's be honest, there would be nothing more cathartic than learning something new after 300 years of doing your best to find it.

[Jay R]

You play the n-th level wizard the same way you play the n-1-th level wizard he or she used to be, but with more experience and knowledge and confidence.

I have no idea how to play a high-level wizard if you didn't start playing at first level.

[Karl Aegis]

You set up a shop in Mechanus and force all the Inevitables to wait in line for their shot at you. Whatever grievances they have you can probably fix before it turns fatal. You're a high op wizard, they're going to have a lot of grievances against you.

[Minion #6]

How does one play what is effectively an alien god?

They may be that now, but they used to be a human person. They'll still have recognisable drives and wants, but their tools will be much more advanced. Their problems, too, will be more advanced. They have reached the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, so everything they do is for self-actualisation. What that will be will depend on their prior characterisation. Whether that be moral crusading, the arts, challenges (physical, magical, or intellectual), there'll be something. Focus on that thing, and there you go, bam, you can easily do it. The trick is simply having something to do.

[unseenmage]

As deeply flawed characters. I normally have their obsessions, flaws, and sins amplified by their personal power.

Kinda as if personal power is the opposite of personal growth.

Because yeah, their Int is high, but at th his point they've boosted ALL their stats as high as possible. Meaning that proportionately each stat is has the same effect on their personality as they did in the beginning.

Sure an Int 30 Wis 25 wizard isnt going to make unwise decisions often, but how boy when they do it is gonna be an epic quest to sort out the repercussions.

[Malphegor]

"The universe is mine, to command! To CONTROL!"

For me, a sufficiently high level wizard is going around leaving permanent monuments to their power, and they expect the mere mortals to beg them for mercy or a boon.

So, finding a nation one likes, equipping them with magical gear, experiment with awakening a tarrasuque, try to activate an apocalypse stone only to stop it at the 00:00:07 mark, kill a god, discover the probabilistic nature of the universe being finite, alter time and space so you were powerful from the start of your adventure, achive a singularity power boost where all is you and you are all, achieve perfection, godhood, whilst still retaining the joys of all stages of existence.

Then run the universe as a simulation without you in it to feel satsified that you were an essential cog

Get despair once you realise that most beings are initially happier without you before you take control, take over the multiverse, become truly infinite enter a sisphysian task of satisfying your endless thirst for growth and power...


get taken down by a Iron Heart Surge user

[Particle_Man]

There is a great scene in The Witcher series where a high powered wizard and the Witcher (basically a ranger with kewl powers) are prepared to duel over the love of a woman (another wizard). Now the Wizard could mop the floor with the Witcher, real easy. But the thing is, the woman in question, fed up with their "monogamous nonsense", decided to leave them both (at least for now - if this world has facebook she would probably put "its complicated" on her relationship with both of them), so the Witcher goes to the duel, prepared to die (because, hey, his girl left him). The Wizard is also prepared to duel, but is also wanting to die (again, because his girl left him), so is going to duel without using magic and with a weapon he doesn't even know how to use. The Witcher realizes what is going on and just abandons the duel.

So I would say a high intelligence wizard could be motivated by the same foolish human drives as a lower intelligence one.

A high wisdom cleric/druid, on the other hand, that I would have more trouble with.

For another fictional wizard example, Raistlin basically retired once he realized that yes, he could kill all the gods and replace them, but inevitably he would go mad with loneliness once he killed everyone else.

[Techwarrior]

The Tales of Wyre is an excellent read on it's own, but provides a very good representation of RP'ing a very high level wizard. It's a campaign log about a play-group starting at about 14h level that goes all the way up into epic levels. You're looking for the party wizard Mostin the Metagnostic. The guy's gone off the deep end looking for knowledge, but still adventures with a paladin successfully.

A quick google search of the first arc (Lady Despina's Virtue) should turn it up.

[Jay R]

Play them according to the roles you've decided they take on, and what you've decided their characters are.

A high level wizard could be:

a magic nerd, like Sheldon;
a problem solver like MacGyver;
a super-powerful public hero like Superman;
an amoral careful planner like Richelieu;
a highly moral careful planner like Batman;
incredibly polite to everybody, like Dumbledore;
rude and/or condescending to those he considers inferiors, like Snape;
Or a host of other possibilities.

Avatar and Blackwolf were both high level wizards, and in fact brothers. They didn't act the same.
Gandalf and Saruman were both high level wizards. They didn't act the same.
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Snape, Bellatrix Lestrange, and Minerva McGonagall were all high level wizards. They didn't act the same.

Class and level are not character, and do not define the role.

[icefractal]

There's not much guaranteed to be the case about high-level Wizards, and much of what there is is more about being high-level in general. But:
* If they have goals, those goals should be something that would still be a challenge for someone with that kind of power. They want a palace? Why don't they have one already? They want to be secret ruler of a kingdom? Also trivial. They want to be declared ruler of a major empire by willing public acclaim? Ok, that's a legit goal.
* They're almost certainly very rich. A high-level Druid might shun material goods (they wouldn't be as powerful as they could be, but it would still be plenty for most purposes), but spell research is expensive and lots of useful arcane spells have pricey components. Combined with the ease that they can obtain gold, and I'd expect virtually all high-level Wizards to be rich AF.
* It's easy for a Wizard to be very reclusive, living on the moon, deep underground, on a demiplane, etc. So if they're not doing that then they presumably enjoy being around people. Probably not going to find many Wiz20s in dingy moderately-isolated swamp towers, for example.

[Florian]

Quite a lot of it will depend on your setting, how magic really functions in it and how the mystical aspects are anchored to the setting.

For example, Golarion showcases what high-powered Wizards are capable of when it comes to Thassilon and the Runelords, but also makes it clear that mortal magic is nothing compared the true divinity and also that "arcane magic" in the form that exists after the apocalypse that destroyed Thassilon and Azlant is based on fragments of lost knowledge (spells) and strongly implies that the current knowledge of and theories on arcane magic as it exists is quite possibly flawed and wrong (For example, arcane magic started out with "word magic" and evolved into "emotion magic" and "math magic", with the last incarnation being "spell magic".). I only mention that as a reminder that this kind of knowledge can alter how a high level caster will approach this kind of power. We trust our technology because the scientist that came up with the fundamentals are around and we have engineers. Now imagine how you would treat technology without those. (In the Forgotten Realms, magic is pretty much dependent on the Weave, so Mystra).

[ExLibrisMortis]

Gandalf and Saruman were both high level wizards. They didn't act the same.
Dumbledore, Voldemort, Snape, Bellatrix Lestrange, and Minerva McGonagall were all high level wizards. They didn't act the same.
They were high level within their systems, and they were called wizards within their settings, but they were not high-level D&D 3.5 wizards. At least, I never heard any of them suggest that they should be astral projecting from a personal demiplane to fight Voldemort avoid homework, or creating an ice assassin of the One Ring, or any of the other stupidity a wizard can get up to.


For a sufficiently high-level-and-optimization wizard, I would play an astral projection of a clone/simulacrum/body outside body Persist-buffed to do whatever the party needs that day. In other words: one caster can supply five groups of mundane with magic-y goodness. A disposable semi-wizard would be pretty easy-going, I would think, as pretty much nothing affects or interests them personally. On the other hand, they would be dead-focused on whatever their goal is, because, well, there's not a whole lot else that affects or interests them personally.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's the thing; as a level 17+ wizard you do, indeed, have the kind of towering intellect that makes it very difficult to relate to people of normal intelligence but that's it. Having more than -maybe- 18 in wisdom is a waste of a -lot- of gold. The gods know you're not wasting it on any other ability score.

Speaking of gods, they're a thing. You're a big fish in the wide, wide ocean but you're not the biggest by a long-shot. That's not to be forgotten.

You're still subject to all the same human(oid) urges and desires, even if you can answer most of them trivially. You'll still want companionship, you'll still have to face your own mortality (albeit dramatically delayed, if you know what you're doing), you'll still be curious about the -many- things you don't know, etc and so on. You're just in a much better position than... well, virtually everyone to try and address these desires and questions.

Reaching 20 means you're driven. Wizard means you're intellectual. Godly-level intelligence means wrapping your mind around simplicity is non-trivially difficult. It takes an act of will to -not- overthink everything to death and you know you're doing it when it happens.

Then there's that companionship issue. That one's sticky. Any human(oid) who's not another wizard, a wu-jen, or some similar pure intelligence class is just right out unless they're grandfathered in from when you were closer to normal intellect. Talking to such people about most subjects will be akin to trying to have a conversation with Koko, the gorilla that was taught sign-language. Even other int based casters are still a good ways removed from the 34-39~ish int you're sporting but at least they have some capacity to grasp the finer complexities of reality.

Of course, that can go to dangerous places, psychologically. If human(oid) minds provide insufficient engagement, you're as like as not to turn to other sources. The problem is that other creatures that can keep up intellectually are properly alien; dragons, aberrations, outsiders, and fey. Even the most stubbornly girded mind cannot help but be influenced by the company it keeps. Should you sometimes succeed in putting yourself in the perspective of such beings, you won't be able to hold it. The substantial differences in their makeup shape their thoughts in ways the human mind simply isn't built to emulate. The dragons are probably the closest but they're massive, magical predators that are -born- with the ability to articulate their thoughts and a lifespan that lends itself to seeing kingdoms rise and fall. Since you'll never really be able to identify with such inhuman creatures and attempting it will draw you further from the human norm, you can easily find yourself isolated. Isolation is something well documented to harm the psyche.

So, yeah. Getting into high level wizard headspace is a challenge but it's doable.

[Mildly Inept]

You're looking for the party wizard Mostin the Metagnostic. The guy's gone off the deep end looking for knowledge, but still adventures with a paladin successfully.

Looks like a good read. Mostin kinda reminds me of our group's Wizard a bit, lol.

Mostly agree with Kelb's assessments, though I think maybe some non-INT based classes might be interesting company in their own way, or at least vaguely useful to an epic level high OP Wizard, assuming they're twinked out to the max in order to be able to halfway run with him.

My thoughts:

Barbarian: Toss a rock at him to trigger his Frenzied Berserker rage, then Time Stop and cast Grease. Laugh. That old gag never gets old.

Bard: Mildly amusing. Hot. The sex is fantastic.

Cleric: Represents mastery of the other half of magic, equal in divine might to his arcane power. An "eternal learner" Wizard and a more scholarly Cloistered Cleric may get along splendidly, traveling the path of the Mystic Theurge together and delighting in the novelty of being apprentices again. A wizard of the more megalomaniacal bent may despise all Clerics on general principle, as they remind him of powers greater than himself.

Druid: An epic-level Druid's desire to "keep the balance" might make her a valuable ally to a Mordenkainen-like Wizard with similar aims, or a hated enemy of one desiring to remake creation in his own image. Either way, it's amusing to boop her on the nose with Mage Hand while she's in bear form just to make her mad. Might be willing to help shape the ecosystem of the Wizard's personal pocket dimension if asked politely.

Fighter: Calls himself a Fighter but took eighteen levels of Warblade to remain relevant. Wizard is still trying to figure out how Iron Heart Surge works, not sure if he's joking when he says he has "Weeaboo Fightin' Magics."

Monk: Knows a few tricks. Don't have to worry about healthcare upkeep. Lawful, and thus guaranteed not to poop in the house. Ideal pet. Polymorph him into a monkey for a laugh.

Paladin: An epic Paladin has faced down cosmic horrors and temptations but remained a bedrock of Lawful Goodfulness. Also might be able to cast a few 9th level spells if she dipped in Divine Crusader before taking her Fist of Raziel levels, and that's worth a golf clap for a Big Stupid Fighter type. Likely a source of some scientific curiosity as essentially the physical embodiment of the universal forces of Law and Good. A good-aligned Wizard fearful of his humanity slipping may cling to her like a security blanket. A neutral-type may find her views of morality hopelessly naive. An evil type may want her dead or broken to his will simply for the symbolic value, even if a good Wizard or Cleric is obviously a bigger threat.

Ranger: Kept around to be polite to the Druid. At least she has a cute dog.

Rogue: "Hey, Charlie. Remember that time ten years ago when we realized you could be replaced by a Knock spell and Greater Invisibility? Good times. Now, fetch me a beer. 'Can't I just use a spell?' Good point, lol. Guess you aren't needed for that either."

Sorcerer: Freak of nature. No grasp of the subtler aspects of the Weave, but a useful wrecking ball. Mutations may be a source for interesting experiments. Ideal minion for an evil schemer type Wizard, as he is powerful enough to be a valuable servant, but too stupid to compose the cosmic-level master plans to be a serious rival. Large number of blasty spells may be mildly useful, but Evocation is just so... vulgar.