Why is the conjuror gimped? Why can't he summon creatures?

[Cyclops08]

He can summon a familiar at first level. He gets a willing spirit Fey, Celestial, or Fiendish (his choice). The spirit serves him willingly.

So why can't other spirits serve the caster in a similar way?
say like taking the form of a skeleton, a bandit (from the final entries of the monster manual), or other animals, and fight for the caster.

A willing spirit will not turn on the caster. Concentration will not even be needed. Say a first level spell summons a spirit creature for a minute. Time could increase at higher levels of the casting.

3.5 could summon all sorts of beasties. I see higher levels where fiends could be summoned, but I don't want to play a caster who would traffic with such evil. Where are the celestials and the fey who could be summoned?

Can you summon creatures in Ravinica? I don't have the supplement, but its based off of a summoning card game.

and a bonus question for DMs: do you allow for spell research?

[JNAProductions]

Because minionmancy was powerful in 3.5, so with 5E's lower power curve, it'd get out of hand REAL FAST.

Summoning spells that DO exist are already some of the more potent spells of their levels.

[JackPhoenix]

It also tends to slow down the game at the expanse of other players, as beyond your own turn, you would also take turn for all your minions.

But there are elementals to summon, you can still animate undead or bind a extraplanar creature to your service if you find one.

Fey and animals belong to the druid (and bard, and warlock), while celestials (the very few there are, that is) come from clerics.

There's also Animate Objects.

Generally, you won't see much summoning until at least 5th level.

And sure, I do allow spell research, but that doesn't mean anything goes.

[Unoriginal]

Because minionmancy was powerful in 3.5, so with 5E's lower power curve, it'd get out of hand REAL FAST.

Summoning spells that DO exist are already some of the more potent spells of their levels.

This.


I thought about homebrewing a Summon Ancient Hero spell, that'd let you call a Berserk NPC or another kind of warrior from Ysgard, but it'd require Concentration.

I would allow spell research, but it'd be a long and difficult process. And literally none of the PCs at my table would be interested by the idea, expect maybe the bard.

[LibraryOgre]

While I haven't played or run, yet, something that has been emphasized to me (coming from an AD&D background as I do): the ability to pile on is a lot more deadly in 5e than it was in AD&D or even in 3.x. Whereas a 3rd level fighter in AD&D could reliably deal with a large number of kobolds, that same fighter would get swarmed under in 5e. So, the ability to summon creatures needs to be controlled, since extra numbers tell heavily in the system.

[Vogie]

I mean, they can summon demons and elementals. There's that.

If you didn't have a Druid, I'd let them research either Conjure Animals or Conjure Woodland Creatures, but have it locked into a certain creature, or types of creature.

For Example, you wouldn't allow them to have a pile of Pixies (to avoid Polymorph Shenanigans), but allowing them to summon a:

a single centaur (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=456367) (1 CR 2)
a horde of goblins (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=442123) (3 CR 1/4)
A Pair of Specters (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=389595) (2 CR 1)
would be useful and definitely keys with the power level of both the Wizard, and of the M:tG-esque setting. EDIT: However, Summons in MTG are only for the battle, so I'd suggest you truncate the duration.

[Man_Over_Game]

He can summon a familiar at first level. He gets a willing spirit Fey, Celestial, or Fiendish (his choice). The spirit serves him willingly.

So why can't other spirits serve the caster in a similar way?
say like taking the form of a skeleton, a bandit (from the final entries of the monster manual), or other animals, and fight for the caster.

A willing spirit will not turn on the caster. Concentration will not even be needed. Say a first level spell summons a spirit creature for a minute. Time could increase at higher levels of the casting.

3.5 could summon all sorts of beasties. I see higher levels where fiends could be summoned, but I don't want to play a caster who would traffic with such evil. Where are the celestials and the fey who could be summoned?

Can you summon creatures in Ravinica? I don't have the supplement, but its based off of a summoning card game.

and a bonus question for DMs: do you allow for spell research?

Effectively, you're proposing that Conjuration Wizards have a better feature than the Pact of the Chain or the Beast Master Ranger. Note that the Ranger is pretty reliant on its subclass features, where the Wizard is not, and even the Beast Master cannot have its minion attack without first losing an action.

The Wizard equivalent would be to forfeit your ability to cast a spell for the round to command your pet into action. So do that if you want, but most would be satisfied with the base Conjurer.

------------

As for researching spells, as in creating spells, there are a few rules I implement:
In any scenario, no spell you create can be better than any other spell of similar effect.
The investment to create the new effect must be more than any similar cost for the same effect. For example, gaining a combat companion is a Ranger subclass, so a spell that gives you a permanent combat companion must be as expensive as investing into a Ranger subclass (maybe a level 7 spell and you cannot hold Concentration while you have them summoned).

Beyond that, compare your spell to the existing spells, and try to guess where it sits in the spell level ranges. If you cannot guess exactly where it sits, estimate high.

So, for example, if you wanted a spell that increased your speed by 20 feet per turn while also causing you to leave a wake of fire behind you, causing you not to provoke Opportunity Attacks and leaving behind a small fire behind you that lasts until the start of your next turn and burns people who pass it by 1d8, we can guess these things:
It's potentially better than Longstrider or Zephyr Strike
It deals equal damage to Dust Devil, but requires your own movement.

Due to these reasons, assuming the spell only lasts a single round, I'd expect it to be a level 2 spell, cast as a bonus action. If it's a Concentration spell, cast as an action, I'd estimate that it'd be a level 3 spell.

[Snowbluff]

Demon summoning has like the best CR for summons but is the riskiest. Still, they can get planar binding and magic circle, so you can turn a high CR demon into a campaign long pet at level 11.

[sithlordnergal]

Personally, I'm with you. It's a bit annoying that if you're a lawful good Conjurer, your best options are spells that summon demons. Personally, I'd homebrew a spell for Wizards that is similar to Conjure Animals, only it Conjures low CR, good outsiders. You do eventually get Conjure Minor Elemental and Conjure Elemental, but you never really get an equivalent to the Druid's Conjure Animals.

If I were to do a rework of the Conjurer subclass, here are the big changes I'd make:

1) I would allow the player to choose what is being summoned, not just the CR

2) I'd replace their current 6th level Conjurer ability with a similar ability to the Circle of the Shepard Druid. Anything the Conjurer summons or animates deals magical damage.

3) I would allow the wizard to have Conjure Woodland Beings to give the Wizard some Fey options


I feel like those changes wouldn't impact the balance of the game, while also making the Conjurer actually feel like the Summoner class. As it is right now, if you want to play a strong Summoner class, you go Circle of the Shepard, because not only do their class features fit summoning better, but they have the better summoning spells.

EDIT: As for potential polymorph shenanigans with Conjure Woodland Beings, I shall remind you of these facts:

- Polymorphed beings don't have magical attacks, meaning if you fight something immune to non-magical attacks it is not an issue, and even resistance greatly decreases the power of Polymorph

- Dispel Magic exists

- You can't always fit a giant ape or t-rex in where you're fighting.

[JNAProductions]

It was, I'm pretty sure, an intentional design choice to not allow the Wizard mid-combat summons. All their summoning spells take time, but last a while.

That being said, adding a Celestial equivalent to summoning Demons should be fine.

Edit: And Polymorph is still CRAZY useful.

A good fix, I find, is this:


The max CR of a creature you can turn into is the lowest of the target's CR/Level or the caster's CR/Level.

So Pixies can't turn you into a T-Rex no matter how beefy YOU are.

[ImproperJustice]

It’s not a summon per se, but Tiny Servant is pretty slick, and upcast brings many little minions.


There is also dust devil and the elemental conjurings.

[Particle_Man]

I thought about homebrewing a Summon Ancient Hero spell, that'd let you call a Berserk NPC or another kind of warrior from Ysgard, but it'd require Concentration.

Maybe reskin an Earth Elemental?

[Unoriginal]

Maybe reskin an Earth Elemental?

Why do that when there are perfectly valid statblocks that don't need reskinning?

[OverLordOcelot]

Personally, I'm with you. It's a bit annoying that if you're a lawful good Conjurer, your best options are spells that summon demons. Personally, I'd homebrew a spell for Wizards that is similar to Conjure Animals, only it Conjures low CR, good outsiders. You do eventually get Conjure Minor Elemental and Conjure Elemental, but you never really get an equivalent to the Druid's Conjure Animals.

I also don't like that. What I plan to do for my homebrew is add a 3rd level spell (1 action, 1 hour duration, concentration) that lets them summon 4x CR1/2, 2x Cr1, or 1x CR2 elemental sparks. Elemental sparks are low-cr versions of the full elementals that I haven't statted yet, that will be much weaker versions of the full elementals. They wouldn't have all of the 'rider' abilities that conjure animals does, but would be a solid little fighting thing with odd properties. I wouldn't want to just give them conjure animals because I feel like that should be something cool specific to the druid (and people who can steal the druid list like bards).

I came up with the idea of low powered elementals because I plan to use them in situations where the full-strength version would be way too much, like when a boss who's opening a portal needs some minions from the portal. They then seemed like a good thing to give a conjuring wizard a distinctive 3rd level spell.


3) I would allow the wizard to have Conjure Woodland Beings to give the Wizard some Fey options

I like leaving fey and beasts as druid-only. I would probably try to find an unused category of creatures that has similar abilities. Maybe some of the outsiders?

[Particle_Man]

Why do that when there are perfectly valid statblocks that don't need reskinning?

Because it has already been playtested. Conjure Elemental is already there. Also, reskinning is easier.

[Beechgnome]

The design choice seems to be:
Wizards summon fiends and elementals and can animate dead and some constructs (tiny servant, homonculus, animate objects).
Druids summon beasts, fey and elementals.
Warlocks summon fey and fiends. (Though they can summon an elemental as an invocation and they don't get woodland beings).
Clerics summon celestials and have some ability to animate dead.

No one can summon aberrations yet but if anyone should be able to it is Warlocks.

I agree it would be good if wizards had more spells that could summon some non-evil creatures, but for that to work there would also need to be more non-evil outsiders to summon in the first place. Even with a few additions in Ravnica, there are barely any celestials to summon with the cleric's one spell, let alone any 1/4, 1/2, 1 CR choices like we have for fey, demons, beats and elementals.