flappeercraft
2019-01-30, 11:47 PM
So me and a player got into a RAW debate regarding on if these would work, won't say who is on which side to avoid any possible bias, used by an NPC/Villain or PC doesn't matter, we just want to find which is the RAW. Please do not say something like "you're the dm, your word is law" or derivatives as we both agreed we will just ignore those. The following are the arguments. While this debate doesn't just apply to BoB, it is what started it and the most relevant one.
The argument made for this case is by applying text from the fission power. "You cannot use fusion or metaconcert with a duplicate, or share any other power or effect that pools abilities (the sum of you and you is still just you)." The effect line for Body Outside Body states this "Effect: One duplicate/5 levels" regardless of if we are talking about the CArc or OA version. Before you go with the fact that the rule for no using duplicates with fusion is on Fission, rules regardless of the source are still rules, and those are backed up with RAW and RAI as it never specifies only fission duplicates are under those rules as there are many sources of "duplicates" even in Core such as the Mirror of Opposition and Simulacrum, plus that line of (the sum of you and you is still you) quite clearly outlines intention that no duplicate applies. Another example to backup that fact that it would apply would be Amanuensis and Spell books, while the description of a Spell book never specifies that its writing is inherently magical by itself, Amanuensis specifies that it is, it being from the text of Amanuensis rather than the description of Spell books in the equipment section does not make any less true. The physical stats of salt are the same, while never specified in any source but in Wall of Salt, it doesn't mean that salt created by True Creation or Major Creation will have different stats if created in the same form.
Feat leech here falls under the argument that it falls under the same excerpt from Fission "You cannot use fusion or metaconcert with a duplicate, or share any other power or effect that pools abilities (the sum of you and you is still just you)." since it would invalidate the (the sum of you and you is still just you) and also the pooling of abilities part from any other power or effect.
The Duplicates are diffrent and should be treated as such, Text under one spell is Specific ruling (General Vs Specific Rules). Therefore the since the Spell BOB doesn't reference Fusion nor does it Have that text the rule should apply.
The intent is to use BOB Duplicates to Fuse/Feat leech with. As used in this ("http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9196833&postcount=18%22) post.
The argument made for this case is by applying text from the fission power. "You cannot use fusion or metaconcert with a duplicate, or share any other power or effect that pools abilities (the sum of you and you is still just you)." The effect line for Body Outside Body states this "Effect: One duplicate/5 levels" regardless of if we are talking about the CArc or OA version. Before you go with the fact that the rule for no using duplicates with fusion is on Fission, rules regardless of the source are still rules, and those are backed up with RAW and RAI as it never specifies only fission duplicates are under those rules as there are many sources of "duplicates" even in Core such as the Mirror of Opposition and Simulacrum, plus that line of (the sum of you and you is still you) quite clearly outlines intention that no duplicate applies. Another example to backup that fact that it would apply would be Amanuensis and Spell books, while the description of a Spell book never specifies that its writing is inherently magical by itself, Amanuensis specifies that it is, it being from the text of Amanuensis rather than the description of Spell books in the equipment section does not make any less true. The physical stats of salt are the same, while never specified in any source but in Wall of Salt, it doesn't mean that salt created by True Creation or Major Creation will have different stats if created in the same form.
Feat leech here falls under the argument that it falls under the same excerpt from Fission "You cannot use fusion or metaconcert with a duplicate, or share any other power or effect that pools abilities (the sum of you and you is still just you)." since it would invalidate the (the sum of you and you is still just you) and also the pooling of abilities part from any other power or effect.
The Duplicates are diffrent and should be treated as such, Text under one spell is Specific ruling (General Vs Specific Rules). Therefore the since the Spell BOB doesn't reference Fusion nor does it Have that text the rule should apply.
The intent is to use BOB Duplicates to Fuse/Feat leech with. As used in this ("http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9196833&postcount=18%22) post.