Ex-Dread Necro - What to do with Rebuke Undead

[Khedrac]

Consider a non-evil Dread Necro / Wu Jen going into Ultimate Magus and then out into something that will progress Wu Jen.

The first question is whether to go DN1/WJ4/UM10 or DN2/WJ3/UM10 and since both ways lose 2 levels of WJ casting (using practised spellcaster DN) I think DN2 makes slightly more sense - no paper cuts!
(Yes I know that an illumian can potentially avoid the loss of the second WJ casting level.)

This gives a 15+ level character who can rebuke undead as a 2nd level cleric - a somethat pointless ability.
Divine Metamagic is out - as has been pointed out it does specify that it only works for divine spells.

Again, going illumian could use the rebukes to power metamagic (and probably the best option) but what if one doesn't want to go illumian?

Are there any feats worth taking to use those Rebuke attempts for something useful? (Note, a suprising number of divine metamagic feats actually specify "turn undead" so those won't work.)

Options for both undead minion masters and those who actually oppose undead please.

The best I have found so far is probably profane lifeleech (only when no living allies are near you) or divine accuracy, but I am not sure that they are worth a feat.

So any thoughts?

[Elrak]

Divine Vigor may be something which could be interesting.
Being keyed off of character level means that by level 15 this would grant 30 temp HP + 10 ft to your base speed per rebuke attempt.
The duration is in minutes per Cha mod so it is not the best but still a nice self buff before going into battle for a squishy character.

However that being said, I do not know if the invetment of the feat is worth it as you may want to focus on gaining more metamagic feats.

[Kayblis]

Devotion feats are pretty great, and can be fueled by either Turn or Rebuke undead. They usually last a full minute and activate as a swift action, so it's good for the entirety of a combat encounter and a little bit afterwards.

-Travel Devotion gives you free movement.
-Healing Devotion gives you or allies Fast Healing and activates on its own if you get below 0 HP.
-Law Devotion is a +7 to to-hit or AC until your next action. It can save your life as an immediate action.
-Luck Devotion makes all damage "above average"(if you roll below average, add half the maximum - it's awesome for DPS).
-Plant Domain is 75% immunity to precision damage like sneak attack and criticals.
-Protection is +5 AC to the whole party.

All of them come as 1/day abilities when you pick the feat, and you can spend rebuke attempts for more uses. The cost in rebuke attempts is fixed for the feat, a value between 1 and 3.

[hamishspence]

Consider a non-evil Dread Necro / Wu Jen going into Ultimate Magus and then out into something that will progress Wu Jen.

Dread Necromancers are "Any non-good" not "Any Evil" - so you could play a Neutral Dread Necromancer and still retain all your powers.

[Khedrac]

Divine Vigor may be something which could be interesting.
Being keyed off of character level means that by level 15 this would grant 30 temp HP + 10 ft to your base speed per rebuke attempt.
The duration is in minutes per Cha mod so it is not the best but still a nice self buff before going into battle for a squishy character.

However that being said, I do not know if the invetment of the feat is worth it as you may want to focus on gaining more metamagic feats.
I hadn't niotiuced that - you are right, that does make it one of the better options. The big question is as you say - is it worth a feat.

Devotion feats are pretty great, and can be fueled by either Turn or Rebuke undead. They usually last a full minute and activate as a swift action, so it's good for the entirety of a combat encounter and a little bit afterwards.

-Travel Devotion gives you free movement.
-Healing Devotion gives you or allies Fast Healing and activates on its own if you get below 0 HP.
-Law Devotion is a +7 to to-hit or AC until your next action. It can save your life as an immediate action.
-Luck Devotion makes all damage "above average"(if you roll below average, add half the maximum - it's awesome for DPS).
-Plant Domain is 75% immunity to precision damage like sneak attack and criticals.
-Protection is +5 AC to the whole party.

All of them come as 1/day abilities when you pick the feat, and you can spend rebuke attempts for more uses. The cost in rebuke attempts is fixed for the feat, a value between 1 and 3.
I had clean forgotten that domain feats get boosted by turn/rebuke undead - very useful suggestion - thank-you.

Dread Necromancers are "Any non-good" not "Any Evil" - so you could play a Neutral Dread Necromancer and still retain all your powers.
That is exactly my plan - probably absolute neutral and primarily interested in gaining knowledge.

The rough character concept is a Mystaran Nagpa who became interested in other magics when he/she/it encountered them. Probably using Kenku as the closest base race without LA.
The other quesiton is what martial weapon to take, but it probably doesn't matter.

[Inevitability]

Dread Necromancers are "Any non-good" not "Any Evil" - so you could play a Neutral Dread Necromancer and still retain all your powers.

The issue is that by RAW, rebuking undead is an Evil act.

Then again, so is animating the dead to begin with, so you should be able to stay Neutral-ish.

[Khedrac]

The issue is that by RAW, rebuking undead is an Evil act.

Then again, so is animating the dead to begin with, so you should be able to stay Neutral-ish.

The first isn't much of an issue. When stopping DN at 2 the Rebuke undead power is very rarely going tobe used to rebuke undead - hence the desire to use the capability to do something different which may or may not be evil.
As for animating dead - capping at casting as a DN 9 there are better uses for the DN spell slots (like quickening WJ spells).

I have spotted one very curious feature of the DN spell list though:
dispel magic - 4th level - 1 level later than most
dispel magic, greater - 5th level - 1 level earlier than most!

[Malphegor]

use it to fuel animal devotion? It's totally random, but sure, you can have your turn attempt's worth/3 of having laser wings every day. Or be stronger, faster, or bite like a snake.

It's a bit out of theme for virtually any character, but it's something you can get that'd work mechanically I suppose.

note- as most of the buffs here are profane/sacred ones, it actually should be additive to any enhancement bonuses you get for similar effects. So that's fun. Stacking bonuses is fun.

[16bearswutIdo]

The only answer to "what martial weapon should a DN take" is scythe. Doesn't matter if its useful in any way, its cool as hell.

[Elrak]

I hadn't niotiuced that - you are right, that does make it one of the better options. The big question is as you say - is it worth a feat.



I guess it depends on how you expect to play the character and how likely you think he may be running into engagements.

On the one hand, 2TempHP/Char level is nothing to scoff at and I believe it can be stacked with other sources of Temp Hp (such as false life) meaning that this should almost double your HP (disregarding bonus HP from a high Con Mod) making you a lot more resilient. On the other hand, if you stay mostly out of combat and/or are alaways careful as to not risk HP damage, then this feat would mostly be useless.