Multigestalt idea for tiers

[VladtheLad]

I am planning to make this it part of my larger houserules, where I also nerf/fix some broken spells, buff a few class features and feats, tinker with skills etc.

"Fighter, thief, barbarian, ranger, paladin, monk, soulknife, hexblade, swashbuckler, spellthief, scout, knight and ninja gestalt with one another in the following way.

At level 6 choose another class and start gaining 2 levels in that class per level up until level 10, where you end up being fully gestalt. At level 10 choose another class, ending up with full triple gestalt at level 20.

Bard, psychic warrior, warmage, warlock and duskblade gestalt with one of the former classes at level 5 finish gestalt at level 10 and stop there.

If you are using this gestalt, multiclassing, prestige classes and alternate class features are allowed but, you may lose the gestalt if you do any of those things.

Also for every gestalting class you may move your alignment restriction of one class you have by one step. The sole exception to this is the paladin.

You can't have more than half your level precision based damage die. So a rogue ninja wont be able to deal 20d6 die of damage in a sudden strike. You can swap sneak attack die for bonus combat feats.

Certain things don't stack: Hexblades resistance with paladins divine grace, rogues and barbarians trap sense etc. "


The reason I go this route is I find martials pretty good up to level 5 and then they slowly fall behind as the other classes overcome them. I don't feel like they need any help before level 5 and arguably before level 10.
Obviously this doesn't give martial things to do outside of combat (apart from more skills), but I don't care that much about it.

Also certain concepts seem naturally limited at higher levels. Fighter might be a very limited concept for level 20, but fighter/rogue/knight seems like a better fit.

Any suggestions?

[Cosi]

This just seems too complicated. Just figure out your target power level, work out some Gestalt combos that get there, and leave a note telling your players you'll work with them if they want to do something comparably powerful that isn't listed.

[Gnaeus]

I like it. It sounds like old MUDs in a good way.

[Seerow]

Having played with progressive gestalts before, they do get very complicated very quickly. I would only do this if your whole group is fairly experienced and make sure you use fractional Bab/saves

[VladtheLad]

This just seems too complicated. Just figure out your target power level, work out some Gestalt combos that get there, and leave a note telling your players you'll work with them if they want to do something comparably powerful that isn't listed.

I think the gestalts give more or less the power level I want. Ofcourse the context of the houserules also affects things.
I fear you I do end up with a higher power level, at 15+ levels at least. I am thinking of using pathfinder monsters to counter act this.


I like it. It sounds like old MUDs in a good way.

I have never heard of old MUDs. Googled them, but it don't see what this gestalting way has to do with them.


Having played with progressive gestalts before, they do get very complicated very quickly. I would only do this if your whole group is fairly experienced and make sure you use fractional Bab/saves

Do they? How did it work out? I am guessing things will get complicated after level 10. Then again no one is forcing the player to gestalt, you could simply ignore your gestalt progression for a couple of levels and gain a bunch of them at once.
I use fractional saves & bab to avoid prestige classing tricks, not sure what this has to do with gestalt.

[Arael666]

There are many fixes for those mentioned classes, and a good portion of those a very well thought and written. Maybe you should consider those.

[VladtheLad]

There are many fixes for those mentioned classes, and a good portion of those a very well thought and written. Maybe you should consider those.

Sure, but 1) using the original classes has a sort of familiarity merit, 2) some of the homebrew is too strong at low levels, 3) I like some of the unique concepts and combos you can pull of with these gestalts.

All that said yeah I would totally run a game with homebrew from this forum. I was actually thinking of using Grod's classes http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329161-Giants-and-Graveyards-Grod-s-collected-3-5-revisions but with my generic houserules and allowing normal full casters, so I certainly don't think that there are no alternatives to what I am suggesting, it just an idea I had and would like to try out and see how it goes.

[Gnaeus]

I have never heard of old MUDs. Googled them, but it don't see what this gestalting way has to do with them. .

It was somewhat common to have a leveling system in which at a certain level you got a secondary class, then eventually a third and fourth. Usually all staggered behind the primary class. So at level 60 maybe you could be a fighter 60//ranger 40//healer 20//wizard 5 or something similar. Obviously not exactly what you propose or perfect for 3.pf play, but you get the idea.

Also, thanks for making me feel venerable.

[liquidformat]

Bard, psychic warrior, warmage, warlock and duskblade gestalt with one of the former classes at level 5 finish gestalt at level 10 and stop there.

So all these classes are pretty solidly in tier 3 realm I am not really seeing the need to boost them compared to other tier 3 classes...

[VladtheLad]

So all these classes are pretty solidly in tier 3 realm I am not really seeing the need to boost them compared to other tier 3 classes...

True, I know, I just didn't include other tier 3 classes. I think that they are the Tome of Battle classes, some psionic ones, factotoum, dragonfire adept, dread necro, Tome of Magic and Incarnum.
I guess you could also gestalt tome of battle classes, maybe due to their low level power start at level 8-10.
Dread necro and wilder would propably work with normal class fixes. Dread necro maybe could gestalt instead.
For dragonfire adept, factotum, some psionic ones and Tome of Magic I don't really care much for. But I guess they could also gestalt.
I have no experience with Incarnum.