PDA

View Full Version : Optimization Level 9 - Barbarian/Rogue



majinbuzz
2019-01-31, 10:31 AM
We rolled for stats:
18 - 16 - 15 - 15 - 15 - 15
Those are stupid high values, I know

The race should be a bugbear:
+2Str +1Dex
Stealth proficiency
Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.

The idea is to make an stealthy assassin, that can burst a enemy and after that sustain damage with reckless attack + sneak attack

Zealot Barbarian - Rogue Assassin

Str 20 Int 15
Dex 16 Wis 15
Con 16 Cha 15

Alert Feat for +5 Initiative
Shield Master to shove a creature in a bonus action and proceed to make attacks with advantage.

Athletics +13 (expertise)
Stealth +11 (expertise)

Saving Throws
Str +5 Int +6
Dex +7 Wis +2
Con +3 Cha +2

So If I can assassinate a creature:
I can shove it on a bonus action
Deal two attacks with advantage, that crit on hit

First:
1d8 (rapier) + 2d6 (surprise attack) + 2d6 (sneak attack) + 1d6+2 (zealot) + 5(str) +2(rage)
doubled: 2d8+10d6+7 ~= 53dmg

Second:
1d8 + 2d6(surprise) +5+2
doubled: 2d8+4d6+5+2 ~=30dmg

Total: 83dmg on first turn

After that I can reckless for:
First: 1d8+2d6(sneak)+1d6(zealot)+7
Second 1d8+7

Any tips on changes or other things that I may have missed?

Misterwhisper
2019-01-31, 10:37 AM
We rolled for stats:
18 - 16 - 15 - 15 - 15 - 15
Those are stupid high values, I know

The race should be a bugbear:
+2Str +1Dex
Stealth proficiency
Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.

The idea is to make an stealthy assassin, that can burst a enemy and after that sustain damage with reckless attack + sneak attack

Zealot Barbarian - Rogue Assassin

Str 20 Int 15
Dex 16 Wis 15
Con 16 Cha 15

Alert Feat for +5 Initiative
Shield Master to shove a creature in a bonus action and proceed to make attacks with advantage.

Athletics +13 (expertise)
Stealth +11 (expertise)

Saving Throws
Str +5 Int +6
Dex +7 Wis +2
Con +3 Cha +2

So If I can assassinate a creature:
I can shove it on a bonus action
Deal two attacks with advantage, that crit on hit

First:
1d8 (rapier) + 2d6 (surprise attack) + 2d6 (sneak attack) + 1d6+2 (zealot) + 5(str) +2(rage)
doubled: 2d8+10d6+7 ~= 53dmg

Second:
1d8 + 2d6 +5+2
doubled: 2d8+4d6+5+2 ~=30dmg

Total: 83dmg on first turn

After that I can reckless for:
First: 1d8+2d6+1d6+7
Second 1d8+7

Any tips on changes or other things that I may have missed?

Shield master has to be after your attacks so you will have to rearrange some plans.

I would suggest grappler instead.

You already get advantage from rage, have great strength, and can get expertise from rogue.

Sneak up, shank them for big damage grab and drag.

Zealot is great, so is battlerager.

Assassin is ok but not great their level 9 and up abilities are meh.

I would go thief for quick donning and doffing a shield.

Provo
2019-01-31, 10:38 AM
We rolled for stats:
18 - 16 - 15 - 15 - 15 - 15
Those are stupid high values, I know

The race should be a bugbear:
+2Str +1Dex
Stealth proficiency
Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.

The idea is to make an stealthy assassin, that can burst a enemy and after that sustain damage with reckless attack + sneak attack

Zealot Barbarian - Rogue Assassin

Str 20 Int 15
Dex 16 Wis 15
Con 16 Cha 15

Alert Feat for +5 Initiative
Shield Master to shove a creature in a bonus action and proceed to make attacks with advantage.

Athletics +13 (expertise)
Stealth +11 (expertise)

Saving Throws
Str +5 Int +6
Dex +7 Wis +2
Con +3 Cha +2

So If I can assassinate a creature:
I can shove it on a bonus action
Deal two attacks with advantage, that crit on hit

First:
1d8 (rapier) + 2d6 (surprise attack) + 2d6 (sneak attack) + 1d6+2 (zealot) + 5(str) +2(rage)
doubled: 2d8+10d6+7 ~= 53dmg

Second:
1d8 + 2d6 +5+2
doubled: 2d8+4d6+5+2 ~=30dmg

Total: 83dmg on first turn

After that I can reckless for:
First: 1d8+2d6+1d6+7
Second 1d8+7

Any tips on changes or other things that I may have missed?

Your second attack on first turn should not have +2d6. Both sneak attack and bugbear’s surprise attack will only happen once.

Keravath
2019-01-31, 10:40 AM
The only comment is that the latest release of the Sage Advice compendium indicates that shield master text should be read as written, meaning that you have to have taken the attack action before you can use the shield to bash an opponent and knock them prone. Intending to take the attack action is not sufficient.

As an example, suppose a ranged opponent held their action until you attack. You do a shield bash before taking the attack action and knock an adjacent opponent prone. The ranged attack then reduces you to zero hit points or otherwise disables you so you can't take the attack action. Your shield bash was then invalid since you didn't attack so it couldn't trigger.

Barbarian/rogue is still a good combination since reckless attack can always be used to enable sneak attack. However, depending on your table, you may not be able to rely on using shield master to knock an opponent prone before taking the attack action.

Man_Over_Game
2019-01-31, 10:40 AM
I'd actually recommend Battlerager over any other option for multiclassing into Rogue. Not only does it give you an extra attack for a bonus action without needing a second weapon, but it also enhances grappling and heals you every time you use Reckless Attack. Basically, everything you do as a Barbarian Rogue you now do even more and even better.

I'd only recommend investing in Medium Armor Master, to improve your stealth and to increase your AC by +1. With your stats, you'll be looking at 17 AC without a shield and with spiked armor.

Orc_Lord
2019-01-31, 10:42 AM
By RAW you have to take the attack action first and then use Shield Master as a bonus action. You can't use Shield Master as a bonus first because there is no attack to trigger it.

However as a Barbarian you can recklessly attack to get advantage.

Also keep in mind if you prone an enemy all ranged attacks are in disadvantage.

Corran
2019-01-31, 11:01 AM
I'll just throw a different suggestion, just in case it interests you.
How about barbarian X/ rogue (assassin) 3, with GWM? (STR 20, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 15, WIS 15, CHA 15).

Assuming barbarian 5/rogue 3, if you get surprise and win initiative, you deal 3 attacks (2 with your action, because you have extra attack, and 1 more with your bonus action; that is because GWM allows you to make an attack with your bonus action if you knock an enemy unconscious or if you crit an enemy during that turn, and when you make surprise attacks you crit because you are an assassin). So, 3 attacks, all with advantage, for a total of 16d6 + 45 (plus rerolls because of the gwf style), assuming all three attacks hit (you roll with a -5 due to GWM, but with advantage because of surprise; also you have a str score of 20, so that helps with landing these attacks).
I would not worry about alert, because at barb 7 you get feral instinct. But I would take lucky as my second feat (ie after GWM, at babrbarian 8, so that means at character level 11). That is because in order to pull off a surprise round, you need a lot of rolls to go your way (stealth check, initiative, attack rolls), and these are some very important consecutive rolls so having lucky handy would help tremendously. Alert is good yes, but as I said, it has some redundancy because of feral instinct. It's still not a bad feat, but I think lucky is better. For 3rd feat, most likely resilient wisdom.
Not making use of the 2d6 sneak attack might seem like a big waste, but meh, I think GWM will pay out more. And it's not like the rogue levels are wasted, cunning action (dash in particular) is great for barbarians.