Analysis Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot [Archive]

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Kurald Galain

2019-01-31, 01:42 PM

Welcome to the latest incarnation of the Class and Level Geekery thread! Here, we are discussing what the possible stats are for each of the six OOTS members. Below is an estimate of the characters' stats; this was first kept by Runolfr, Wrecan, Chrismith, and RMS Oceanic. I will update these posts as the discussion continues and as subsequent strips reveal more information about OOTS and the other characters.

The aim of this thread is that we give D&D statistics for the characters in the comic based on the events and statements made in the comic, plus statements by The Giant in the forum and his books. For this purpose, we assume that the comic strictly follows the 3.5E D&D rules. We are aware that The Giant has stated that he doesn't always follow the rules, because his goal is to write a story and not to write session reports from a D&D campaign. Nevertheless, in this thread we assume the rules are being followed anyway, and see what stats, feats, and skills could explain what happens. Essentially, that means we're taking the rules side of the comic more seriously than its author does; if you like, you can assume a little footnote on every factoid of this thread that says "* or The Giant used a houserule". Why? Well, because it's Geekery. If Star Trek fans can do it, then so can we :smallwink:

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Does The Giant check this thread?
Yes, but only really for spell lists. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?411301-Interview-Questions-For-Rich/page4&p=19164058#post19164058)

Q: Which source books are used in the comic?

Player's Handbook 1 and Dungeon Master's Guide 1
Book of Vile Darkness (certain monsters; Boost Spell Resistance feat)
Complete Adventurer (ninjas)
Complete Arcane (warlocks; Tsukiko's and Zz'dtri's spells)
Complete Warrior (hexblade)
Dungeonscape (Thog; the acid-breathing shark; note that The Giant co-wrote this book)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (blue; mindblade)
Fiend Folio (certain monsters)
Frostburn (Frostbite spell)
Magic of Incarnum (mentioned by Redcloak's lackey)
Monster Manual (mentioned by Celia and Vaarsuvius)
Monster Manual 2 (certain monsters)
Oriental Adventures (other samurai class, and mentioned by Xykon)
Spell Compendium (numerous spells that aren't from the PHB1)
uncertain: Epic Level Handbook (a feat and spell from this book are mentioned, but most epic characters or spells in the comic don't follow the rules from this book)

Q: In which comic do the characters demonstrate having leveled?

Level
:roy:
:belkar:
:durkon:
:elan:
:haley:
:vaarsuvius:

9
12
12
12
12
12
12

10
124
125
124
124
124
124

11
???
???
201
???
???
186

12
251
249
???
382
477
220

13
???, 665
???
556, 1162
392
511
397

14
485, 862
???
859
647
???
627

15
-
860
864
860
648
716

16
-
-
-
-
990
935

Q: Which characters are included in this thread?
(1) All named members of the Order, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, the Order of the Scribble, and the Vector Legion.
(2) Any frequently occurring character, as noted in the Character Appearances thread. Note that this includes Samantha: it was easier to be a common character back when the comic was shorter. We don't unlist characters just because they've died.
(3) Family members of the main characters, as long as we have something to write about them.
This means that Daigo and Bandana would be next in line, but we don't have a lot of material on either character.

Q: Which material is covered by this thread?
All comics on the web and in print (including SSDT, Gygax magazine, and the Kickstarter bonus stories), as well as anything written about the comic by The Giant. However, not included are any one-panel joke comics, such as used for incentives, t-shirts, or the fundraiser.
Note that even though the characters have stated they aren't sure whether this is the same continuity, certain items and abilities have been shown to carry over. We're listing all of it here for the sake of convenience, but any material from (e.g.) SSDT is clearly marked as such so that people can distinguish it from the main online comics.

Q: I've heard there was a fight over some topic years ago, and now we're not allowed to discuss it any more. Is that the case?
No; this thread does not have a banned topic list (of course, the forum as a whole has one; please see the board rules for details). Also see the thread rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229756) by Mark Hall.

Q: Is a character's statement about another character considered evidence?
Yes. We assume that when a character says something about another character's (or his own) ability scores, build, feats, and so forth, they are speaking the truth, except where this contradicts with other evidence or is clearly not possible within the rules.

Q: If a character makes a special attack like grappling, and his victim does not make an attack of opportunity, can that be evidence of a feat like Improved Grapple?
Yes, assuming the victim is armed, and otherwise capable of making AOOs. It is clear that the rules for attacks of opportunity are used in the comic, and there is no reason to assume that grappling/tripping/sundering is an exception.

Q: If somebody doesn't say the name of a spell while casting it, does that mean he has the Silent Spell feat?
Not necessarily. We know that Vaarsuvius doesn't have that feat, and yet V still occasionally casts spells while talking about something else.

Q: What does "Core" mean?
The three "Core" books in 3E D&D are the Player's Handbook 1 (PHB), Dungeon Master's Guide 1 (DMG), and Monster Manual 1 (MM). This is an official term defined by WOTC, who put the word "Core" in big letters on the cover of these three books. No other books are Core, and there is no such thing as "partially Core", "almost Core", or "semi-Core" - every book is either Core or non-Core. Note that both the OOTS comic and this thread contain numerous non-Core elements.

Q: Does The Giant use house rules?
Probably. But for the purpose of this thread, we assume that the comic doesn't, except where The Giant has explicitly said so, or where some event is clearly not possible by the rules. That is, we try to explain events in the comic within the rules as much as possible, and that means not leaving factoids out of this thread just because The Giant might not have followed the rules there.

Q: A character undertook this heinous/awesome/dutiful/impulsive/meh action. Does that mean they are now evil/good/lawful/chaotic/neutral?
No. As seen in a thousand forum threads, people have different ideas about alignment, and what defines and changes them. The alignments posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their alignment, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which has an alignment restriction. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's action changes their alignment, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers.

Q: A character undertook this brilliant/moronic/insightful/ignorant/inspiring/repulsive action. Does that mean they now have a high/low intelligence/wisdom/charisma score?
No. Similar to the previous question, people have different ideas about what the mental ability scores represent and how much they influence a character's personality. The ability scores posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their scores, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which requires a minimum ability score. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's personality changes their ability scores, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers either.

Q: How does Xykon cast Maximized Energy Drain in comic 652?
We don't know for sure. The most popular theories involve the feat Sudden Maximize, the feat Improved Spell Capacity, or a Rod of Metamagic. Each theory has its pros and cons. Comic 429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html) suggests that Xykon is at most nine levels higher than Durkon, per the rules on Dispel Magic.

Q: What magic item makes Xykon immune to fire damage in comic 653?
We don't know for sure; there are multiple items within RAW that make their user immune to fire, available from level 14. Note that Xykon doesn't specify whether it's an amulet, ring, belt, or other kind of item.

Kurald Galain

2019-01-31, 01:43 PM

:roy: Roy Greenhilt
Lawful Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html), Human male Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) 14 (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19392374&postcount=533)).
Str 29 (same as a frost giant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1075.html)).
Dex 13+ (required for Improved Grapple).
Con 12+ (151+ hit points (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html)).
Int 14-17 (very good, less than Vaarsuvius, forum).
Wis 14+ (very good, forum).
Cha 12+ (decent, forum; less than Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0101.html)).
Age: 29 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html).
Feats: Cleave (prerequisite for Great Cleave), Combat Expertise (prerequisite for Improved Disarm), Endurance (to sleep in armor without getting fatigued (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html)), Great Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0102.html), Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1003.html), Improved Grapple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0730.html), Improved Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1070.html), Least Legacy, Lesser Legacy, Power Attack (prerequisite for Cleave), Spellsplinter Maneuver (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1003.html), Weapon Focus (prerequisite for Weapon Specialization), Weapon Specialization: greatsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html).
Skills: Bluff 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0139.html), Heal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html), Intimidate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html), Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1004.html), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html), Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html), Knowledge: Geography (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), Listen low (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Profession: Baseball Player (BRITF), Profession: Goatherd (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Ride 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Sense Motive 0 (OOPC), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html), Spot low (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html).
Items: Magical armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), Bag of Tricks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), club (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0151.html), newspaper (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), heirloom +5 Starmetal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) Greatsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) of Legacy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html), formal suit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html), shillelagh oil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), potion of delay poison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), Manual of Gainful Exercise (SSDT), non-magical boots (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html), list of Xykon's spells, feats and magic items (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Belt of Giant Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html), book, sextant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), runestone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html), Wrecan's book (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html), scarf, potions of Cure Serious, Remove Paralysis, Magical Vestment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

:belkar: Belkar Bitterleaf aka Ali S. Fakenamington (KS:US), aka the Belkster, aka Death's Li'l Helper (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html)
Chaotic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html), Halfling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0021.html) male Ranger 14 / Barbarian 1 (forum, deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html)).
Str 14-17 (jump exceeds movement, forum, and carrying capacity in SSDT).
Dex 13+ (required for Spring Attack).
Int <10 (OOPC).
Wis 9 (ability score penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), and can use a third-level scroll when buffed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html)).
Cha <10 (without any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html)).
Age: 28+ (ranger for three years, over a year ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)).
Feats: Endurance, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (all ranger bonus feats); Bounding Assault (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html), Craft Disturbing Mental Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html), Dodge (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Improved Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0325.html), Mobility (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Power Attack (prerequisite for Improved Sunder), Spring Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html); no feats related to special attacks (SSDT).
Skills: Balance 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0279.html), Climb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html), Craft: Trapmaking (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), Handle Animal 0 (NCPB), Hide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html), Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html), Move Silently 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), Profession: gourmet chef 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), Sense Motive 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html), Speak Language: Halfling (racial), Spellcraft 4+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0119.html), Survival 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1026.html), Use Magic Device (SSDT).
Abilities: Halfling racial abilities, ranger and barbarian class abilities, animal companion: Mr. Scruffy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html), favored enemy: human (forum) (http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=467) and undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0957.html), scent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html).
Items: Unholy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html), red chalk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html), cloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0107.html), Ring of Jumping +20 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), stilts, Sapphire guard disguise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0294.html), quill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html), string (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html), chef hat, Mama Bitterleaf's secret ingredient (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0476.html), clothespin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html), 3 small magical daggers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html) (+4 and +2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16461748&postcount=668), forum), mallet and spike (DSTP), mimic (SSDT), wand of dispel clothing (SSDT), 18 pounds of salt (GYG), book: Dune (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), bucket and spade (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), bag of holding full of money (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0807.html), +5 Dagger of Collision (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), +3 Vest of Resistance, Clasp of Protection from Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html), Feather Fall item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html), spatula, stakes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1043.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/MrScruffy.png Mr. Scruffy
True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15667889#post15667889) (forum), Cat male, animal companion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html).
Str 6 (animal companion).
Dex 18 (animal companion).
Con 10 (racial).
Int 2 (racial).
Wis 12 (racial).
Cha 7 (racial).
Age: 7 (WXP).
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +6, Hide +16, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silently +8, Spot +3 (all racial skills).
Abilities: Racial abilities; animal companion abilities; 3 tricks, including attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html) and come (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0522.html).
Items: String (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html), gear and wind-up key (TD), potion of Greater Magic Fang (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

:durkon: Durkon Allotrope Thundershield
Lawful Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0844.html), Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html) male Cleric of Thor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html) 13 (required to cast Regenerate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1162.html)).
Str 14-19 (can carry Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html), can't carry Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html)).
Dex <10 (dex penalty, SSDT).
Con ~12 (racial).
Wis 22-23 (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?485983-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIV-We-are-the-Geek-Pantheon/page26)).
Cha <10 (low modifier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), see also DCF).
Age: 55+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html).
Feats: Extend Spell or Sudden Extend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html), Extra Turning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), Leadership (TD), Martial Weapon Proficiency: Warhammer.
Skills: Concentration 7+ (forum) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23921708&postcount=418), Knowledge: Religion not maxed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html), Listen 0 (OOPC), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Speak Language: Dwarven (racial) and Giant (SSDT), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, Turn Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), Good domain (required to cast Holy Smite (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html)),
Items: Candles (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), deck of cards (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html), holy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html), Amulet of Natural Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), parcheesi board (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html), spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0444.html), religious vestments (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html), scroll of Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html), belt pouch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html), flask of liquor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html), Macebook (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html), 5,000+ gp of diamond dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0845.html) (Greg used 5000 for Symbol of Death), robe, Hammer of Thunderbolts, Gauntlets of Ogre Power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1154.html), Belt of Giant Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1160.html), plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1181.html).
Spells: Standard cleric list, domain spells, plus Bless Beer (WXP), Call Lightning (DCF), Cat's Grace (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html), Control Winds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html), Cure Itchy Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html), Heat Blisters of Eternal Pain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), Heathen Smiting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), Mass Death Ward with backdoor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0876.html), Thor's Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html), and Tumor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), unspecified clock spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

:elan: Elan
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html), Human male Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) 14+ (required to retrain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) to Cure Critical Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0949.html)) / Dashing Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html) 1+.
Str 10-11 (KS:H&J, and the same as Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=821955&postcount=47), forum).
Dex 13-17 (required for Dodge, and to get a four on Move Silently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html)).
Con same as Nale.
Int 4-9 (too low to cast cantrips (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html), but higher than Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html).
Wis <10 (not even a smidgen (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html)).
Cha 22+ (required for 5th level spells at level 13 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), +2 from belt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)).
Age: 22+ (WXP).
Feats: Dodge, Mobility (both prerequisites for Spring Attack), Spring Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html), Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html).
Skills: Concentration 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1065.html), Craft: Shiv 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Hide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html), Listen (higher than Sir Francois, OOPC), Move Silently <3 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html), Perform: riddles 2+ (BRITF), Perform: sing 12+ (required for Inspire Greatness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0593.html)), Perform: string instruments 15+ (required for Song of Freedom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0890.html)), Perform: kazoo 3+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Ride 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Spellcraft 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0324.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html).
Abilities: Bard class abilities, charismatic strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html), dramatic instincts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html), glass damage immunity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html).
Items: Bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html), Banjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html), coffee maker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html), espresto box (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html), ceremonial meat costume (OOPC), dice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html), Boots of Elvenkind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), kazoo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html), jam, lantern, pingpong bat, roller skate, squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html), yoyo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), dashing outfit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html), toothbrush (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html), Lutey the Lute-tastical Lute (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html), evil sword (SSDT), castanets and sombrero (SSDT), equipment lists (GYG), Belt of Charisma +2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html), treasure chest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), drawing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), The Stick the Order was named after (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html), letter, Chaos Sabre (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0943.html), Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html), Armand Vestinghole (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1091.html); no armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html).
Spells: Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html), Cure Critical Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0949.html), Disguise Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Lesser Confusion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0721.html), Major Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0597.html), Mass Cure Light Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Mending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html), Neutralize Poison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html), Silent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html), Summon Plot Exposition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html); no Identify (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html), nor Break Enchantment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).

:haley: Haley Starshine aka Mistress Nightingale, aka The Red Blur (OOPC), aka Dark Mistress Shadowgale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html)
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html), Human female Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html) 16 (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) and leveled since then (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html)).
Str 13-19 (high enough to drag the cart (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0523.html), forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=3812297&postcount=580), but can't carry Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html)).
Dex 20-21 (modifier of +5, forum).
Con 9+ (higher than Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html)).
Int 12+ (received bonus languages (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0247.html)).
Cha 12-19 (with any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html); and with maxed out Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html), for Hide to be her best skill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html), her cha mod has to be less than her dex mod).
Age: About 25 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12254291&postcount=24) (forum; was 24 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), and that was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html) over a (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0260.html) year ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html)).
Feats: Dodge (SSDT), Improved Precise Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html), Manyshot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html), Point Blank Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), Precise Shot (prerequisite for IPS), Ranged Pin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), Ranged Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0511.html), Rapid Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html).
Skills: Appraise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0129.html), Bluff 18+ (maxed out) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html), Disable Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html), Forgery (OOPC), Hide 18+ (best skill) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html), Knowledge: Planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html), Knowledge: Religion low (forum) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15175785&postcount=48), Open Lock 15 (forum), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Search (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0036.html) not maxed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html), Sense Motive 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html), Spellcraft 9+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0867.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0108.html), Use Magic Device 7+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html), Use Rope 8 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html).
Abilities: Rogue class abilities; two special rogue abilities, both spent on a feat (based on feat count for her level).
Items: Two gemstones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html), 8 Bags of Holding (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), towel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), hair dryer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0278.html), rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), +5 Air Freshener of Pineness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html), a lot of clothes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0570.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html), +5 Icy Burst Longbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html), bag of copper pieces (SSDT), magic leather armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html), dyed Boots (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html) of Speed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11095086&postcount=2) (forum), trowel, metal detector (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0692.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html), 4+ quivers of green arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) including silver and cold iron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), three potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) (since Belkar took one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0807.html)), thief's tools (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html), Z's wands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), Wand of Obscuring Mist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0971.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0973.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0975.html), and four others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html), winter coat, Elan's coat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/5O6gx.png Minrah Elle Shaleshoe
Lawful good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Dwarf female, Fighter 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1180.html) / Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html) 5+ (cast Searing Light in TD, after Raise Dead).
Str 15-19 (prerequisite for Knockdown, and can fail to pierce a vampire spawn's DR (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1102.html)).
Con ~12 (racial).
Int 13+ (required for Combat Expertise).
Wis 16+ (based on spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1123.html)).
Cha 6+ (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html)).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knockdown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1167.html), Power Attack (to get through vampire DR after having all buffs dispelled), Improved Unarmed Strike.
Skills: Knowledge: Planes 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1138.html), Knowledge: Religion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities.
[ibItems:[/b] Holy symbol, non-silvered warhammer (based on vampire spawn DR), armor, helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).

:vaarsuvius: Vaarsuvius
True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11664984#post11664984) (forum), High Elf (OOPC) genderqueer (BRITF) Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html): Evoker (DCF) 16 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1102.html) (+1 caster level from Blackwing's ioun stone).
Str 5-9 (can carry Yukyuk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), and strength penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0245.html)).
Dex <12 (no real attack bonus on rays, forum).
Con 8-12 (to have enough HP to survive the fight against Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html); also, lacks a decent con, forum; and lower than Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html)).
Int 24 (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16647248&postcount=982)).
Wis 10-11 (moderate, forum).
Cha 6-9 (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html), and without any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html)).
Age: 131+ (WXP).
Feats: Alertness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html), Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Extend Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1051.html), Improved Counterspell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1058.html), Maximize Spell (SSDT), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat); no Silent Spell (forum), nor Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0161.html).
Skills: Appraise +3 (from familiar), Concentration 12+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1160.html), Craft: Alchemy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0098.html), Decipher Script (SSDT), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0188.html), Knowledge: Engineering (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), Knowledge: Religion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html) not high (forum) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15175785), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Search 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0030.html), Speak Language: Elven (racial), raven (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0271.html), not draconic (SSDT), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0181.html), Use Magic Device 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html).
Abilities: Elf racial abilities, familiar: Blackwing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html), share spells with familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), scry on familiar, barred schools: Conjuration (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html) and Necromancy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11686399&postcount=36) (forum; also by elimination).
Items: Headband of Intellect +4 (required to cast four 6th level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html) with a base int of 18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html) at level 11), doily (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html), Ring of Wizardry III or IV (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html), two small gemstones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html), many scrolls and spellbooks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.html), Finding Plot Holes for Dummies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html), twelve more books (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html), two potions (SSDT), apricot-scented face gel (SSDT), chalice (SSDT), jar of diamond dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html), defensive potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html), Tarquin's whip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0932.html).
Spells: Arcane Sight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), Banishment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0585.html), Bear's Endurance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1116.html). Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html), Bugsby's Cat-Retrieving Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0781.html), Bugsby's Clenched Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit, Bugsby's Flicking Finger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Bugsby's Grasping Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html), Burning Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1026.html), Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html), Cone of Cold (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html), Crushing Despair (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html), Detect Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0116.html), Dimensional Anchor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Dimensional Lock (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html), Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Distant Inferno (OOPC), Dominate Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0005.html), Explosive Runes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0092.html), Feather Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0240.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html), Fire Trap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Flamefinger (OOPC), Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html), Greater Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1051.html), Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), Haste (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html), Heroism (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html), Hold Monster (SSDT), Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Hold Portal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html), Identify (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0157.html), discount Invisibility Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0088.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html), Locate Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1020.html), Locate Object (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1077.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Mass Bear's Endurance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Enlarge Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1057.html), Mind Blank (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1104.html), Overland Flight usable on others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0835.html), Owl's Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), Passwall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0857.html), Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0697.html), Power Word Blind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html), Power Word Stun (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Prismatic Spray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html), Protection from Arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0240.html), Ray of Frost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html), Resilient Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html), Scorching Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), See Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), Shadow Conjuration (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19156714&postcount=6) (to cast Evan's Tentacles, forum), Silent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html), Sleep (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Stinking Cloud (DCF), Stoneskin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html), Stone to Flesh (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html), Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html), Summon Plot Hole (Supercollider Mash-Up), True Seeing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html), Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Veil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), Wall of Fire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0919.html), Wall of Force (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html), unspecified polymorph spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html), unspecified sonic spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Blackwing.png Blackwing (Common name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html))
Raven (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html) male, familiar.
Str 1 (racial).
Dex 15 (racial).
Con 10 (racial).
Int 13 (familiar).
Wis 14 (racial).
Cha 6 (racial).
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +7 (racial skills), can use Vaarsuvius's skill ranks (familiar).
Abilities: Racial abilities; familiar abilities.
Items: Bauble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), sombrero, fake beard and mustache (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), wand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html), bracelet with Orange Prism Ioun Stone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html), sunglasses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1119.html).

Kurald Galain

2019-01-31, 01:44 PM

Team Evil

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/PimpedXykon.png Xykon, pseudonym (SOD)
Chaotic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13027771&postcount=5) (forum) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html), Human male lich (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html), Sorcerer 21+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)
Str 15+ (forum).
Con n/a (undead).
Int ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
Wis ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
Cha 28+ (casts seven 9th level spells in one combat, SOD).
Age: 111+ (WXP).
Feats: Maximize Spell or Sudden Maximize (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Still Spell or Sudden Still (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Epic Spellcasting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), unspecified craft feat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html), Dodge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html), Concentration (required to cast while grappled (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)), Spellcraft 24+, Knowledge: Arcana 24+ (required for Epic Spellcasting), Reverse Psychology 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html), Speak Language: Draconic (NCPB); +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.
Abilities: Fear aura, paralyzing touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), turn resistance, damage reduction (SOD), immunity to cold, electricity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), polymorph, and mind-affecting attacks (all lich abilities).
Items: Soul gem (SOD), Ring of Positive Plane Protection (SOD), Serini's diary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0195.html), Widescreen crystal ball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html), Teevo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0415.html), crown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) that radiates evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html), Dorukan's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) headband (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html), unspecified item that gives fire immunity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Ring of Protection that gives deflection bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), bunch of scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), Boots of Freedom of Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html).
Spells: Animate Dead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Animate Dead Animal (SOD), Burning Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Cloister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), Cloudkill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Energy Drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), Epic Mage Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Finger of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html), Ghostform (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html), Greater Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), Greater Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Invisibility (SOD), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html), Mass Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html), Meteor Swarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Overland Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Ray of Frost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html), Shatter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html), Soul Bind (SOD), Stoneskin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Superb Dispelling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Symbol of Insanity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), Symbol of Pain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html), planar travel spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), summoning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html), architecture spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html), and wall-breaking spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html).

Oona
Bugbear female, racial HD 3 / unknown class 3+ (required for Beast Heart) / Beast Heart Adept 9+ (required for ythrak companion).
Str ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Dex 15+ (required for Two-Weapon Fighting).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Animal Affinity (required for Beast Heart), Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1035.html).
Skills: Handle Animal 8, Knowledge: Arcana 4, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 4 (all required for Beast Heart Adept)
Abilities: Bugbear racial abilities, Beast Heart Adept class abilities, monstrous companions: Lancer and Greyview (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1037.html)
Items: Morningstar, dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1035.html), Mask of Cold Resistancef (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html), sack of monster parts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1040.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Redcloak.png Redcloak, pseudonym (SOD)
Lawful (required for Law domain) Evil (SOD), Goblin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) male, Cleric (SOD) 17+ (required to cast 9th level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html)).
Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 20+ (based on saving throw difficulty class (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html)).
Cha 12+ (required to use Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html) four times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html) per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html)).
Age: 55+ (WXP), does not age physically (SOD).
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item (Xykon's phylactery in SOD), Extend Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html).
Skills: Diplomacy (SOD), Knowledge: Chemistry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html), Knowledge: Nature (SOD), Speak Language: Goblin (racial), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html); no Draconic (NCPB).
Abilities: Goblin racial abilities, Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html), Command Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), Destruction domain (required to cast Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html)) and Law domain (required to cast Hold Monster, SOD).
Items: Black armor (SOD), The Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html), backup unholy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html), Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html), eye patch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html), spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html), 8th level scroll (WXP), Xykon's Phylactery (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html), Arcane half of the Snarl Ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), Ring of protection from level drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), boots.
Spells: Standard cleric list and domain spells, plus Unseal, Greater Obscure Object, Superior Resistance, Hardening (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Tsukiko.png Tsukiko (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html))
Neutral Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human female, Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html): Necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11637535) (forum) 3+ / Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) 3+ (required for Mystic Theurge) / Mystic Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) 6+, and two more levels of Wizard or Mystic Theurge (required to cast Create Undead).
Int 16+ (required to cast Create Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) as a wizard).
Wis 15+ (required to cast Flame Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) as a cleric).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana 6+, Knowledge: Religion 6+ (required for Mystic Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)).
Abilities: Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html), barred school (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11637535) (forum): Abjuration (by elimination).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), item that boosts caster level (to teleport six wights (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html)), unholy symbol (required to cast Flame Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html)), Xykon plushie (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Xykon portrait, various books and scrolls, quill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html).
Spells: Standard cleric list, plus wizard spells Cold Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0522.html), Create Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html), Dominate Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html), Electric Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Fire Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Lesser Acid Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Mind Fog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Shout (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html), Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664910)).

:mitd: Monster In The Darkness
Please see this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584536-MitD-XIII-Learning-is-happening) for details.

The Linear Guild

:nale: Nale (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html))
Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), Human male, Fighter / Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) 2+ (required for Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html)) / Sorcerer 8+ (required to cast Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html)); total level 15 (deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html)).
Str 10-11 (same as Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=821955), forum).
Dex 13-17 (same as Elan).
Con same as Elan.
Int 13+ (required for Combat Expertise).
Cha 15+ (required to cast Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html)).
Age: 22+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html) (same as Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0361.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html).
Items: Longsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), business cards (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html), wand of Enervation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html), Elixirs of Negative Energy Protection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html).
Spells: Charm Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0067.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html), Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/ryRoj.png Hilgya Firehelm & https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Kudzu_zpspgccwtdp.png Kudzu
Chaotic (required for Chaos domain) Evil (WXP), Dwarf female, Cleric of Loki (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html) 14+ (based on spells cast per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1149.html)).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha 6+ (can use Turn Undead).
Wis 24+ (based on spells cast per day).
Skills: Speak Language: Dwarven (racial).
Feats: Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1119.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html), Chaos domain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1117.html), Fire domain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html), Turn Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html).
Items: Horned helmet, armor, shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html), holy symbol (required to use rebuke ability (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html)), mace, carrying sling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html), anarchic water (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html), wand of Protection from Law (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1110.html), plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1181.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Leeky.png Leeky Windstaff
Neutral Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html), Gnome male, Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html) 13+ (required to cast Fire Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).
Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 17+ (required to cast Fire Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).
Feats: Leadership (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html).
Abilities: Gnome racial abilities, druid class abilities, animal companion: hawk "Kitty" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0346.html) (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Pompey.png Pompey
Neutral Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57), Half-Elf male, Wizard: Conjurer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html) 5+ (required to cast Still Silent Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html)).
Int 14+ (required to cast four 2nd level (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0350.html) spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html)).
Age: 44+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html).
Feats: Scribe scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell, Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html).
Abilities: Half-elf racial abilities, barred schools: evocation and enchantment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
Spells: Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html), Summon Monster I (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html), Summon Monster II, five unspecified touch-range buff spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0350.html).

:sabine: Sabine
Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0394.html), Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) female, Racial hit dice 6 / Level adjustment 6 / Rogue (NCPB) 4+ (at least as high as her personal rival (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html) Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html)).
Str 19+ (can carry Nale and Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html)).
Dex ~13 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~13 (no evidence, racial).
Int 9+ (higher than Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), lower than Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11883778&postcount=198), forum).
Wis ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~26 (no evidence, racial).
Age: 2000+ (NCPB).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html), change shape (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html), energy drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), charm monster, detect good, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt, suggestion, greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html), summon demon, damage reduction 10 / cold iron or good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html), darkvision, electricity and poison immunity, acid cold and fire resistance, spell resistance 18, telepathy, tongues; plane shift 1/day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html) (all racial abilities), rogue class abilities, immune to fatigue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0365.html).
Items: Cellphone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0903.html)

:thog: Thog
Non-lawful (required for rage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Half-Orc male, Fighter 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) / Barbarian 9+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0396.html) (required to have 3 attacks a round).
Str 22+ (to break down an iron door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html) while raging).
Con 16+ with Extend Rage feat, or 26+ without (based on rage rounds per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html)).
Int <8 (racial, dump stat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html)).
Wis <10 (abysmal will save (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0066.html)).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Age: 17+ (WXP).
Feats: Extra Rage (possibly, see above), Improved Bull Rush (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html), Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0788.html).
Skills: Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html).
Abilities: Dungeoncrasher (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html) (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11982830)), half-orc racial abilities, barbarian class abilities.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yikyik.png Yikyik (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0063.html))
Chaotic Evil (same as Belkar, DCF), Kobold male, Ranger (DCF).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex 12+ (gets additional attack from Combat Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html)).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Combat Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html), Track (ranger bonus feat).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yokyok.png Yokyok (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html))
Kobold male.
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Rapier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0348.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yukyuk2.png Yukyuk (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0848.html))
Kobold male, Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html) 4+ (required for an animal companion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html)) / Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Abilities: Ranger and rogue class abilities, animal companion: riding dog "Sir Scraggly" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).
Feats: Endurance, Track (ranger bonus feats).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Two Crossbows of Quick Loading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Zzdtri.png Zz'dtri (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0908.html))
Neutral Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Drow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html) male, Wizard: Transmuter (DCF) 15 (deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html)).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Int 17+ (required to cast Plane Shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html)).
Cha ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Lightning Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html) (forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=822237)), Boost Spell Resistance, unspecified feat that increases Spell Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html).
Abilities: Spell Resistance 28+ (racial, +4 from feats and an item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html)); drow racial abilities; barred schools: Enchantment, Necromancy (by elimination).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), unspecified item that boosts Spell Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html).
Spells: Baleful Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html), Break Enchantment: short version (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Disguise Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html), Flesh to Stone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), Fly: 3.0 version (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html), Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html), Locate Object (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0894.html), Magic Circle Against Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Phantasmal Killer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Planar Binding (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Plane Shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html), Protection from Energy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html), Shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), Vitriolic Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html), Wall of Ice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), unspecified lightning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html).

Kurald Galain

2019-01-31, 01:45 PM

The Sapphire Guard

https://i.stack.imgur.com/ziT4b.gif Hinjo
Lawful Good, Human male, Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html) 11+ (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html)).
Age: 24+ (WXP).
Skills: Diplomacy (GDGU), Swim 0 (GDGU).
Abilities: Paladin class abilities, Summon Conscience (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html), paladin mount: dire wolf "Argent" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0432.html).
Items: Cold-iron katana, silvered katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html); magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/lien.png Lien
Lawful Good, Human female, Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0479.html) 12+ (higher level than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)).
Str 13+ (required for Cleave).
Int 10+ (good, not dumb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)).
Wis 11+ (required to cast spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1042.html)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html)).
Age: 23+ (younger than Hinjo, GDGU).
Feats: Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html), Power Attack (prerequisite for Cleave), Weapon Focus: Longspear (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html).
Abilities: Paladin class abilities, paladin mount: large shark "Razor" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0479.html).
Items: Longspear (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html); magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); Ring of Waterbreathing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html), crossbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1034.html).

:miko: Miko Miyazaki (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html))
Lawful Good, Human female, Monk 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) / Fallen Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html) 10-14 (three main-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), higher level than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html), and three smites per day, forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291639&postcount=489)).
Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Dex 17+ (required for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Wis 11+ (required to cast Cure Light Wounds in the Miko fight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291639)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0219.html)).
Age: 28+ (WXP).
Feats: Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (two off-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html), Quick Draw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0215.html), Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Track (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), Two-Weapon Fighting (prerequisite for ITWF).
Skills: Knowledge: the Planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html), Knowledge: What The Hell She's Talking About 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html), Spellcraft 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html), Survival 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html).
Abilities: Monk class abilities, unavailable paladin mount: horse "Windstriker" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).
Items: Magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); katana, wakizashi (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/O-Chul.png O-Chul
Lawful Good, Human male, Fighter 8+ / Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html) 3-4 (has Aura of Courage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) but no mount (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1034.html)), total level 12+ (higher than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)).
Str 11+ (can carry Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html)).
Con ~25 (WXP).
Cha <10 (dump stat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html)).
Age: 50+ (in GDGU, Hinjo is 15-16 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23309387) and O-Chul is 42).
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (GDGU).
Skills: Bluff 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html), Diplomacy 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19163226&postcount=74) (forum), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Swim (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html).
Items: Protective cloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html), go set, spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1042.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Shojo.png Shojo (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html))
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html), Human male, Aristocrat 14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html).
Str / Dex / Con ~4 (no evidence, age).
Int / Wis / Cha ~13 (no evidence, age).
Age: 72+ (WXP).
Feats: Improved Paranoia (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html), Perform (puppetry) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html).

The Vector Legion

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png Tarquin
Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html), Human male, level 16+ (unaffected by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html)).
Str 16+ (can carry Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html)).
Dex, Con ~9 (no evidence, age).
Int, Wis ~11 (no evidence, age).
Cha 16+ (higher than Nale, BRITF).
Age: 51+ (adventuring for 35 years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html)).
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), Ride (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), Spot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html).
Abilities: Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html), Counter Charge, Soaring Throw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html).
Items: helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), two Rings of Regeneration (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html), Ring of True Seeing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html), Glamered (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html) plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0850.html), mask that says "Nope" on it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0852.html), Extra Strength Keoghtum Ointment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Soul-Muncher_zps9mnpfpuq.png Soul Muncher
Intelligent ki focus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html) axe.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Jacinda_zps7hwo2mqt.png Jacinda
Evil (forum), Catfolk female.
Items: Dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Kilkil.png Kilkil
Lawful Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Winged Kobold male, level 6-10 (paralyzed by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html)).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Items: Glasses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities, Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/hbvD8.png Laurin Shattersmith
Evil (forum), Human female, Psion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0911.html) 15+ (required for Craft Psionic Arms feat).
Str, Dex, Con ~7 (no evidence, age).
Int 16+ (required to manifest Disintegrate).
Wis, Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Age: 58+ (forum).
Feats: Craft Psionic Arms and Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), Expanded Knowledge x2 (can manifest Clairvoyant Sense, Control Body, and Mind Probe).
Items: Headband (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html), two Ioun Stones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html).
Powers: Body Adjustment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Clairvoyant Sense (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html), Control Body (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0927.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html), Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html), Dispel Psionics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Energy Adaptation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html), Matter Manipulation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), Mental Disruption (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Mind Probe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html), Telekinetic Force (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Wormhole (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), unspecified attack power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png Malack (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html)), pseudonym (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Lawful (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled&p=17331234) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15715754&postcount=56) (forum), Lizardfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) male vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0870.html), Cleric of Nergal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) 12 (required for Craft Staff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html), but no higher spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15715754&postcount=56), forum).
Str ~18 (no evidence, racial).
Con n/a (undead).
Dex ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Int ~13 (no evidence, racial, age).
Wis 20+ (from spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15716359&postcount=751), forum).
Cha ~17 (no evidence, racial, age).
Age: 200+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html).
Feats: Craft Staff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html).
Abilities: Vampire abilities, Death and Destruction domains (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15715919&postcount=61) (forum).
Items: Holy Symbol.
Spells: Standard cleric list and domain spells, plus Protection from Daylight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0871.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Miron_zpsolsb8sfv.png Miron Shewdanker
Evil (forum), Human male, Wizard 15+ or Sorcerer 16+ (required to cast Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)).
Str, Dex ~9 (no evidence, age).
Con 6+ (forum).
Wis ~11 (no evidence, age).
Int or Cha 18+ (required to cast Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), depending on his class).
Age: 38+ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16361374&postcount=218) (forum).
Spells: Baleful Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html), Contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html), Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), unspecified defensive spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html).

http://i.imgur.com/Uqj3cnA.png ???
We don't seem to know anything about the sixth member of the Vector Legion.

Kurald Galain

2019-01-31, 01:46 PM

The Order of the Scribble

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/SoonKim.png Soon Kim (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html))
Lawful Good, Human male Sacred Watcher (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) 21+ (Low Epic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331)).
Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana).
Con n/a (Deathless).
Cha ~14 (no evidence, Sacred Watcher).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html), Paladin class abilities, Sacred Watcher abilities, Deathless abilities.
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).
Items: Enchanted Armor, Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd40/rtg0922/OotSSmilies/Dorukan.png Dorukan (deceased and soulbound, SOD)
Neutral Good (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human male, Wizard 21+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Str/Dex/Con ~4 (no evidence, age).
Int 19+ (required to cast Gate, SOD).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Craft Wondrous Item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html), Epic Spellcasting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana 24+, Spellcraft 24+ (both required for Epic Spellcasting).
Spells: Arcane Half of the Mystic Gate ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Cloister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), Gate (SOD), Meteor Swarm (SOD), Monster Ward (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html), Prismatic Spray (SOD), Pure Heart Ward (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), Seal Rift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Scrying (SOD), Teleport (SOD), unspecified fire spell (SOD), unspecified summoning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Reed_Copperstrand/Girard_new.png Girard Draketooth (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0846.html))
Chaotic Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19163226&postcount=74) (forum), Black dragon-blooded human (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html) male, Ranger 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) / Sorcerer 19+ (low epic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331), forum).
Cha 19+ (required to cast Microcosm).
Feats: Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), no Epic Spellcasting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331) (forum).
Spells: Microcosm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html), Recorded Message Trap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), unspecified illusion spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/UQSbX.gif Kraagor (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html))
Non-lawful, Dwarf male, Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Skills: Speak Language: Dwarven (racial).
Items: Axe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Lirian.png Lirian (deceased and soulbound, SOD)
Neutral Good (forum), Elf female, Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) 21+ (Low Epic, forum).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 19+ (required to cast Shapechange, SOD).
Skills: Speak Language: Druidic (class) and Elven (racial).
Spells: Standard druid list, plus Divine Half of the Mystic Gate ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Guardian Virus (SOD).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/1k7eL.png Serini Toormuck
Halfling female, Rogue 21+ (Low Epic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331)).
Str ~5 (no evidence, racial, age).
Dex ~9 (no evidence, racial, age).
Con ~7 (no evidence, age).
Int/Wis/Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Items: Shortbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).

Family and other characters

https://i.stack.imgur.com/rMw71.gif Celia
Lawful Good (DSTP), Sylph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html) female, 6+ HD (required to cast Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html)).
Str 12+ (required to pull the cart (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html)).
Cha 16+ (required to cast four 3rd level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html) in a day).
Age: 22+ (WXP).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), cast sorcerer spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0530.html), shoot lightning out of her fingers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0529.html) (all racial abilities).
Skills: Profession: Lawyer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Items: Cell phone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), feeblemind causing blue dress (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html), black eyeliner pencil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0537.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html).
Spells: Alter Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html), Charm Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0530.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html), Fog Cloud or Obscuring Mist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0604.html), no necromancy spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Eugene.png Eugene Greenhilt (deceased, OOPC)
Lawful Good (SOD), Human male ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html), Wizard: Illusionist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html) 11+ (required to cast Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)).
Str/Dex ~4 (no evidence, age).
Con n/a (undead).
Int 16+ (required to cast Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)).
Wis ~13 (no evidence, age).
Cha 6+ (required to become a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)).
Age: 81+ (WXP).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
Spells: Birth Control Spell (SOD), Conjure Chair (OOPC), Detect Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html), Fly (SOD), Invisibility Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0088.html), Minor Image (OOPC), Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html), Summon Boot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0525.html), Teleport (SOD), unspecified fire spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/GontorVampire_zpshuuydh50.png The Exarch
Evil, Dwarf vampire male, Cleric of Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html) 13+ (required to cast Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1161.html)).
Con n/a (undead).
Wis 19+ (required to cast Gate from a scroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html)).
Skills: Decipher Script, Use Magic Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, vampire abilities.
Items: Armor, belt, scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/DurkonVampire_zps6711c6b8.png Greg (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html) (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1131.html))
Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html) vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html) male, Cleric of Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) 15 (required to cast Symbol of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html)).
Str 20-25 (same as Durkon; +6 as vampire).
Dex <14 (same as Durkon; +4 as vampire).
Con n/a (undead).
Int ~12 (no evidence; +2 as vampire).
Wis 24-25 (same as Durkon; +2 as vampire).
Cha <14 (same as Durkon; +4 as vampire).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, vampire abilities.
Spells: Standard cleric list, plus Accelerate Vampirization (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1101.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/IanGladiator.png Ian Starshine, aka Red (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html)
Chaotic Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human male, Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0938.html).
Str, Con ~7 (no evidence, age)
Int, Wis, Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Age: 60+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html), Knowledge: Local (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html), Move Silently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0815.html), Not Dying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0746.html), Open Lock (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html).
Abilities: Rogue class abilities.
Items: Signed amnesty papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0815.html), Elan's plan to take down Tarquin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0941.html), dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/XGShF.png Julia Greenhilt
True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0343.html), Human female, Wizard 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html).
Int 15+ (required to cast Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html)).
Age: 17+ (five years younger than Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html)).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
Spells: Feather Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html), Mask Scent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0838.html).

Logann Brightstone
Dwarf male, Fighter 6+ (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1171.html)).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Int 13+ (required for Improved Disarm).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1171.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities.
Items: Armor, Dwarven Waraxe.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/7z1rQ.png Qarr
Lawful (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html), Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) male, Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0625.html) 8-10 (required to cast Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html), and to get only two Scorching Rays (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html)).
Dex ~17 (no evidence, racial).
Int 12+ (based on Zz'dtri's level).
Wis ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha 14+ (required to cast Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html)).
Feats: Dodge, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html), poison, detect good, detect magic, invisibility: self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), suggestion, commune, alternate form, damage reduction 5/good or silver (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html), darkvision, fast healing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html), poison immunity, fire resistance; greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), plane shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html), summon devil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) (all racial abilities).
Spells: Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html), Extraplanar Phone Connection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0903.html), Lesser Telepathic Bond (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html), Scorching Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html).

Right-Eye (pseudonym; deceased, SOD)
True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57), Goblin male, Rogue
Str ~2 (no evidence, racial, age)
Dex ~6 (no evidence, racial, age)
Con ~4 (no evidence, age)
Int 15+ (can speak common before aging; age)
Wis ~13 (no evidence, age)
Cha ~11 (no evidence, racial, age)
Age: 40+ (venerable)
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency: greataxe
Skills: Craft: carpentry, Diplomacy 0, Listen 2+
Abilities: Rogue class abilities.
Items: Eyepatch, greataxe, deck of cards, hooded cloak, Deathstrike Bracers, 3 credit cards, scroll of Regeneration.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Samantha.png Samantha (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html))
Evil (NCPB), Human female, Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html) 12 (required to cast exactly three 6th level spells in a day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html)).
Cha 16-21 (required to cast Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), but has no bonus spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html) at level 6). Also, her charisma is higher than Haley's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0161.html).
Age: 18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0159.html).
Feats: Maximize Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), no Silent Spell, nor Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0169.html).
Spells: Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html), Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), Protection From Arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html).

Previous Threads:
XV - What's the Damage of a Thrown Pineapple? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545476-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XV-What-s-the-Damage-of-a-Thrown-Pineapple")
XIV - We are the Geek Pantheon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?485983-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIV-We-are-the-Geek-Pantheon)
XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392439-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIII-Comic-As-Written-not-Comic-As-Intended)
XII - Even Nerds Call Us Nerds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329816-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XII-Even-Nerds-Call-Us-Nerds)
XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?311888-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XI-Can-Now-Argue-Three-Times-Per-Page)
X: deals +1d6 thread damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?282328-Class-and-Level-Geekery-X-deals-1d6-thread-damage)
IX: the thread levels up again! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?253978-Class-and-Level-Geekery-IX-the-thread-levels-up-again!)
VIII (spoilers ahoy!) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?230935-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VIII-(spoilers-ahoy!))
VII (some [spoilers]) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?210883-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VII-(some-spoilers-))
VI (some [spoilers]) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?131219-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VI-(some-spoilers-))
V (some [spoilers]) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125953-Class-and-Level-Geekery-V-(some-spoilers-))
IV (some [spoiler]s) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?95005-Class-and-Level-Geekery-IV-(some-spoiler-s))
III (some [spoiler]s) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?61354-Class-and-Level-Geekery-III-(some-spoiler-s))
II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?4912-Class-and-Level-Geekery-II)
Class and Level Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?5124-Class-and-Level-Geekery)

Resileaf

2019-01-31, 01:54 PM

First reply!

Don't be that guy.

Peelee

2019-01-31, 01:55 PM

First reply! Woo-hoo! Also, LOVE this thread-chain.

This is a gentle reminder to be aware of the forum rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).

Fyraltari

2019-01-31, 02:16 PM

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?

Flame of Anor

2019-01-31, 02:26 PM

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?

Also, presumably he's down to 12th level now (ouch).

Peelee

2019-01-31, 02:27 PM

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?

I like to say he has an on-again, off-again relationship with life.

zimmerwald1915

2019-01-31, 02:33 PM

Also, presumably he's down to 12th level now (ouch).
13th. The vampire was 15th.

D.One

2019-01-31, 02:59 PM

WOW. Two names in a row!? I'm very proud now, and the first one wasn't even intentional, I was honestly speculating about the damage of a pineaple.

Back to the point of the thread, even though I think (and hope) that we are seeing an actual Hammer of Thunderbolts, and that we'll see its classic combo with gauntlets and belt, I think we should wait a couple of strips for confirmation.

RatElemental

2019-01-31, 03:02 PM

I thought the name was going to be the kazoo thing? I knew we should have kept that argument going for another 5 pages. :smalltongue:

Turin_19

2019-01-31, 03:07 PM

The Sapphire Guard

:miko: Miko Miyazaki (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html))
Lawful Good, Human female, Monk 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) / Fallen Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html) 10-14 (three main-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), higher level than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html), and three smites per day, forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291639&postcount=489)).
Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Dex 17+ (required for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Wis 11+ (required to cast Cure Light Wounds in the Miko fight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291639)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0219.html)).
Age: 28+ (WXP).
Feats: Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (two off-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html), Quick Draw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0215.html), Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Track (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), Two-Weapon Fighting (prerequisite for ITWF).
Skills: Knowledge: the Planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html), Knowledge: What The Hell She's Talking About 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html), Spellcraft 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html), Survival 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html).
Abilities: Monk class abilities, unavailable paladin mount: horse "Windstriker" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).
Items: Magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); katana, wakizashi (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).

Question, what is "knowledge: the planes" ?

zimmerwald1915

2019-01-31, 03:09 PM

Question, what is "knowledge: the planes" ?
It's one of the ten defined "knowledge" skills, dealing with the planes. It's used to, among other things, identify outsiders and their abilities, and to know the properties of various planes (morphology, gravity, alignment, etc.).

Miko refers to her "knowledge of demons" and demonstrates knowledge of the abilities of the demon-roaches (who, being demons, are Outsiders). Knowledge of any sort is trained-only with a few exceptions - the main ones being checks with DCs below 10 can be made untrained, as can all knowledge checks made by a Bard - but Miko's demonstration falls into neither major exception. It therefore stands to reason that she has ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

Nith

2019-01-31, 03:10 PM

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?

And his item list includes his old armor, shield and hammer, but not the new (unknown magic) hammer (of Thor). Maybe update that?

zimmerwald1915

2019-01-31, 03:12 PM

It was decided in the strip 1154 thread that Durkon's new weapon shall henceforth be known as the "Hammer of Loki Sucks."

TheNecrocomicon

2019-01-31, 04:10 PM

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?

Not only that, but he specifically said in the current strip (#1154) that his old armour is wrecked and not retrievable.

Furthermore, it appears that when he died and was vampirized was brought back by Malack in the last book, Lurkon did not take Durkon's hammer with him and it probably has been well-integrated into the desert terrain by the explosion of Girard's Pyramid.

And of course, once the type or name of Durkon's new hammer is known, that should be listed among his inventory along with whatever new gear he can cobble together in the temple. (Anyone else reminded of "Murkon Lightninghammer" these days?)

EDIT: basically ninja'd.

BardicLasher

2019-01-31, 07:12 PM

danielxcutter

2019-01-31, 09:39 PM

He's also got some new gloves or gauntlets as well.

MultitudeMan

2019-02-01, 03:11 AM

Don't be that guy.

Apologies, got overexcited :smallredface:. Also, to Zimmerwald, the "Hammer of Loki Sucks" is a very fine name indeed :smallsmile:.

D.One

2019-02-01, 12:07 PM

You have Sabine listed as "immunity to fatigue" because she says she doesn't get tired. This isn't quite accurate. Demons don't need sleep because Outsiders just don't sleep, but they can still be affected by the Fatigue status effect if someone casts a spell to inflict it.

Maybe we can change from "Immune to Fatigue" to "Doesn't Get Tired", meaning she wouldn't get tired from normal effort, but would still be subject to magical fatigue attacks.

Besides sleep and food/water deprivations (and some weather effects), the "natural fatique" situation I could find was when the rules talk about overland movement:

Overland Movement

[...]

Hustle
A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.

A fatigued character can’t run or charge and takes a penalty of –2 to Strength and Dexterity. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue.

[...]

Forced March
In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.

A character can walk for more than 8 hours in a day by making a forced march. For each hour of marching beyond 8 hours, a Constitution check (DC 10, +2 per extra hour) is required. If the check fails, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from a forced march becomes fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It’s possible for a character to march into unconsciousness by pushing himself too hard.

[...]

Maybe she is immune to this kind of fatigue, or maybe she simply has a sufficiently high combination of CON modifier and Endurance feat so that she rarely misses the CON check to avoid fatigue.

Jaxzan Proditor

2019-02-01, 12:46 PM

It was decided in the strip 1154 thread that Durkon's new weapon shall henceforth be known as the "Hammer of Loki Sucks."

That feels pretty in-character for Thor. I like this headcanon.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-01, 01:57 PM

It's pretty in character for the dwarves too, and they're the ones who built the vault and set the password.

BardicLasher

2019-02-01, 06:36 PM

Maybe we can change from "Immune to Fatigue" to "Doesn't Get Tired", meaning she wouldn't get tired from normal effort, but would still be subject to magical fatigue attacks.

Besides sleep and food/water deprivations (and some weather effects), the "natural fatique" situation I could find was when the rules talk about overland movement:

Maybe she is immune to this kind of fatigue, or maybe she simply has a sufficiently high combination of CON modifier and Endurance feat so that she rarely misses the CON check to avoid fatigue.

...Weirdly, that doesn't say anything about FLYING.

Obscuraphile

2019-02-01, 06:52 PM

It's pretty in character for the dwarves too, and they're the ones who built the vault and set the password.

Well since it is a temple of Thor it could very well be the case that they were just following his directions instead of acting independently. No real evidence one way or the other.

Aquillion

2019-02-02, 02:33 PM

He's also got some new gloves or gauntlets as well.This may or may not prove relevant, but in Norse Mythology, Thor required a pair of special iron gloves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1rngreipr) in order to wield Mjölnir.

Thor also had a Belt of Strength. Huh.

MultitudeMan

2019-02-02, 03:12 PM

This may or may not prove relevant, but in Norse Mythology, Thor required a pair of special iron gloves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1rngreipr) in order to wield Mjölnir.

Thor also had a Belt of Strength. Huh.

My respect for the original designer(s) of the Hammer of Thunderbolts has just substantially increased.

Peelee

2019-02-02, 03:12 PM

My respect for the original designer(s) of the Hammer of Thunderbolts has just substantially increased.

Seconded. Looks like it really is Mjolnir with the serial number filed off.

b_jonas

2019-02-02, 04:20 PM

This may or may not prove relevant, but in Norse Mythology, Thor required a pair of special iron gloves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1rngreipr) in order to wield Mjölnir.

Thor also had a Belt of Strength. Huh.The D&D-based video game Nethack compresses these to two items. Mjöllnir is an artifact war hammer that deals electric damage in addition to the normal phisical damage. Any character who can wield weapons can wield Mjöllnir if they acquire it. If, however, you have a gauntlet of power, then you can also use Mjöllnir as a thrown weapon, in which case it still has the huge electric damage bonus. Gauntlets of power are rare non-artifact magic glives made of iron that max out your strength attribute. Mjöllnir is a pretty good artifact weapon that is used by many players, but throwing Mjöllnir is an obscure strategy that people don't usually do even if they do have a gauntlet of power. There are no such things as magical belts in Nethack.

Obscuraphile

2019-02-02, 04:28 PM

My respect for the original designer(s) of the Hammer of Thunderbolts has just substantially increased.

If you want to be really nerdy, in the original myth the hammer was created as part of a contest. Loki stole Sif's hair, and Thor threatened to damage him. So Loki went and tricked two sets of craftsmen into creating three gifts. But one of the craftsmen got wise and said if his side won he got to keep Loki's head. So Loki sabotaged their work and the result was that Thor's hammer had a short haft. Another possible reason for the hammer to be named the Hammer of Loki Sucks.

Quartz

2019-02-03, 04:59 PM

Remind me, how do we know that Blackwing is male?

Zenzis

2019-02-03, 05:36 PM

Remind me, how do we know that Blackwing is male?

V seems to use male pronouns for him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html)

Quartz

2019-02-04, 04:03 AM

V seems to use male pronouns for him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html)

Right, thanks.

Kurald Galain

2019-02-04, 06:04 AM

Removed Durkon's armor, shield, and deceased status; replaced his warhammer; added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat. Fixed link for Spellsplinter, Belkar's spellcraft, Greg's wis and cha, and Minrah's alignment.

Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?Done.

And his item list includes his old armor, shield and hammer, but not the new (unknown magic) hammer (of Thor). Maybe update that?Indeed.

If you want to be really nerdy, in the original myth the hammer was created as part of a contest. Loki stole Sif's hair, and Thor threatened to damage him. So Loki went and tricked two sets of craftsmen into creating three gifts. But one of the craftsmen got wise and said if his side won he got to keep Loki's head. So Loki sabotaged their work and the result was that Thor's hammer had a short haft.Yes, plus Thor can effectively fly by throwing his hammer and not letting go of it (so it drags him along). For anyone unfamiliar with Norse mythology, I recommend the recent interpretation by Neil Gaiman.

Reboot

2019-02-04, 11:02 AM

Removed Durkon's armor, shield, and deceased status; replaced his warhammer; added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat.

Why have you listed him as L12? He should be L13 (15-2, based on Durkula's Symbol of Death. L14 was out of date)

D.One

2019-02-04, 11:50 AM

...Weirdly, that doesn't say anything about FLYING.

No, it doesn't. I assume it works in the same way, but couldn't find specific rules for overland flight that is not the spell Overland Flight.

Aquillion

2019-02-04, 12:10 PM

No, it doesn't. I assume it works in the same way, but couldn't find specific rules for overland flight that is not the spell Overland Flight.It doesn't say, but it's pretty easy to figure out. You use the Movement and Distance table, and you treat all terrain as not impeding you (×1), outside of situations like constant winds.

The only real question is whether you can Hustle or not. Overland Flight specifically allows it; I would say that other magical means of flight generally don't unless they say they do, since Overland Flight spells it out and is specifically intended for that use. Wings (or other physical methods of locomotion) probably allow you hustle, but you exert yourself as usual.

Note that a Carpet of Flying specifically functions as Overland Flight and is therefore capable of hustling.

D.One

2019-02-04, 03:14 PM

It doesn't say, but it's pretty easy to figure out. You use the Movement and Distance table, and you treat all terrain as not impeding you (×1), outside of situations like constant winds.

The only real question is whether you can Hustle or not. Overland Flight specifically allows it; I would say that other magical means of flight generally don't unless they say they do, since Overland Flight spells it out and is specifically intended for that use. Wings (or other physical methods of locomotion) probably allow you hustle, but you exert yourself as usual.

Note that a Carpet of Flying specifically functions as Overland Flight and is therefore capable of hustling.

Some interesting things:

This spell functions like a fly spell, except you can fly at a speed of 40 feet (30 feet if wearing medium or heavy armor, or if carrying a medium or heavy load) with average maneuverability. When using this spell for long-distance movement, you can hustle without taking nonlethal damage (a forced march still requires Constitution checks). This means you can cover 64 miles in an eight-hour period of flight (or 48 miles at a speed of 30 feet).

This corroborates with the idea of using the same rules for fatigue, since it states the exception that hustle doesn't cause fatigue, but reinstates that forced march may cause it. What's more, it establishes an eight-hour period of movement, just as with ground move.

This rug is able to fly through the air as if affected by an overland flight spell of unlimited duration. [...]

Since it works as Overland Flight, does the carpet "get tired"? :smallbiggrin:

Turin_19

2019-02-04, 06:21 PM

It's one of the ten defined "knowledge" skills, dealing with the planes. It's used to, among other things, identify outsiders and their abilities, and to know the properties of various planes (morphology, gravity, alignment, etc.).

Miko refers to her "knowledge of demons" and demonstrates knowledge of the abilities of the demon-roaches (who, being demons, are Outsiders). Knowledge of any sort is trained-only with a few exceptions - the main ones being checks with DCs below 10 can be made untrained, as can all knowledge checks made by a Bard - but Miko's demonstration falls into neither major exception. It therefore stands to reason that she has ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

I know it's been a while now, and that it in no way advances the thread, but I just wanted to thank you Zimmerwald. Your explanation was very easy to understand and very very warm (especially because I feel that this is pretty common sense to most people here). Thank you for being kind!

Stabbey

2019-02-05, 11:41 AM

The link to Roy's "Improved Unarmed Strike" citation has an extra 0 before 1070.

Flame of Anor

2019-02-06, 02:11 AM

Thor also had a Belt of Strength. Huh.

Might not be a coincidence. Plenty of classic D&D items and spells are based on preëxisting myth, legend, and fiction.

Quartz

2019-02-06, 04:43 AM

added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat.

From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm):

Weapon and Armor Proficiency...
A cleric who chooses the War domain receives the Weapon Focus feat related to his deity’s weapon as a bonus feat. He also receives the appropriate Martial Weapon Proficiency feat as a bonus feat, if the weapon falls into that category.

Durkon has carried a hammer ab initio. Do we have any other evidence of Durkon having the War domain?

EmperorSarda

2019-02-06, 09:15 AM

Aren't we making an assumption that the gloves are magic items? What if they are just insulated gloves to protect from electricity?

D.One

2019-02-06, 11:17 AM

Durkon has carried a hammer ab initio. Do we have any other evidence of Durkon having the War domain?

Not really. Evidences for War Domain would be Weapon Proficiency (which he has, but that could be acquired without the domain), Weapon Focus (which he has not demonstrated yet, and could very well have appeared here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html) if he had), and the casting of Domain spells (this one is tricky, because all War Domain spells are general Cleric spells at the same levels, so it's harder to know if they are being cast as domain spells or regular cleric spells).

OTOH, we know he has the Good Domain, and we've seem him cast a couple of lightning-based spells that aren't part of a regular cleric's list, so it's reasonable to suppose that his second domain is related to lightning/thunder/weather.

Obscuraphile

2019-02-06, 05:48 PM

Yes, plus Thor can effectively fly by throwing his hammer and not letting go of it (so it drags him along). For anyone unfamiliar with Norse mythology, I recommend the recent interpretation by Neil Gaiman.

Seconded. It really is a great book.

Aren't we making an assumption that the gloves are magic items? What if they are just insulated gloves to protect from electricity?

Well, its possible, but shock weapons don't work that way, no amount of insulation can actually protect a target from electricity damage in D&D (although the reverse is not necessarily the case (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shockingGrasp.htm)), and it would just be way less cool!

Aeson

2019-02-06, 07:02 PM

OTOH, we know he has the Good Domain, and we've seem him cast a couple of lightning-based spells that aren't part of a regular cleric's list, so it's reasonable to suppose that his second domain is related to lightning/thunder/weather.
If we assume that Durkon is limited to spells on the standard Cleric list and has two of the standard domains, then one of his domains is Air, because Clerics limited to the standard Cleric list and standard domains do not have access to Control Winds outside of the Air Domain. Chain Lightning - also only available to Clerics through the Air Domain - would probably be a decent fit for Thor's Lightning, though you'd need a house rule to change how secondary targets are selected if Durkon's implication that the secondary targets affected by Thor's Lightning are not entirely within the caster's ability to control is true.

The Air Domain is also probably a pretty decent fit for a god called the "King of Storms and Thunder."

D.One

2019-02-07, 05:16 AM

If we assume that Durkon is limited to spells on the standard Cleric list and has two of the standard domains, then one of his domains is Air, because Clerics limited to the standard Cleric list and standard domains do not have access to Control Winds outside of the Air Domain. Chain Lightning - also only available to Clerics through the Air Domain - would probably be a decent fit for Thor's Lightning, though you'd need a house rule to change how secondary targets are selected if Durkon's implication that the secondary targets affected by Thor's Lightning are not entirely within the caster's ability to control is true.

The Air Domain is also probably a pretty decent fit for a god called the "King of Storms and Thunder."

Another possibility is to consider the Weather Domain, since it grants Call Lightning, which he's used once. Anyway, my main point is that I don't really think he has War Domain as his second domain.

EmperorSarda

2019-02-07, 09:18 AM

S
Well, its possible, but shock weapons don't work that way, no amount of insulation can actually protect a target from electricity damage in D&D (although the reverse is not necessarily the case (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shockingGrasp.htm)), and it would just be way less cool!

So... I thought the purpose of this thread was to stat up the characters as closely as we could based off observation and the Giant's loose following of the rules. Not leaping to conclusions because we want an item to be magical before we see any proof towards it.

Aeson

2019-02-07, 09:43 AM

Another possibility is to consider the Weather Domain, since it grants Call Lightning, which he's used once.
Weather isn't one of the domains listed here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm) so I wasn't counting it as one of the 'standard' domains.

D.One

2019-02-07, 10:25 AM

Weather isn't one of the domains listed here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm) so I wasn't counting it as one of the 'standard' domains.

Agreed.

We still don't have confirmation, and I believe we'll hardly have, since the strip is much less "rules-declaratory" these days.

Confirmation of Air Domain would be if he turned earth elementals or rebuker air elementals at any given time.

Confirmation of Weather Domain is much harder, because its domain power is to have Survival as Class Skill.

Most of the time, Thor's Lightning seems akin to Lightning Bolt, more than to Chain Lightning or Call Lightning. Do we have any domain that gives Lightning Bolt as a Domain Spell?

ArkenBrony

2019-02-07, 01:15 PM

In Bonus strips from DCF durkon casts call lightning explicitly. Thors lightning has also been called a third level spell by malek. They could be one and the same, but if durkon has a domain that gives call lightning, and definitely has the good domain, what explanation could there be for thor’s lightning

Chronos

2019-02-07, 01:27 PM

Strictly speaking, since we don't know what domain grants him his weathery spells (Control Winds, whatever Thor's Lightning is, and Call Lightning if we consider that canonical), it's possible that that (presumably homebrewed) domain also grants Holy Smite, and that we thus don't know that he has the Good domain.

But that would be a really weird domain, and I'm content to assume otherwise.

Obscuraphile

2019-02-07, 05:55 PM

So... I thought the purpose of this thread was to stat up the characters as closely as we could based off observation and the Giant's loose following of the rules. Not leaping to conclusions because we want an item to be magical before we see any proof towards it.

Leaping? This feels more like taking the smallest of baby steps.

There exists in D&D an artifact that is Mjolnir with the serial number filed off. The god Thor told his cleric where to find a hammer hidden in a statue in one of his temples. This hammer emits lighting and was stored with a set of gloves. Thor has a magical belt and a set of gloves which allow him to wield his hammer's full might. The artifact allows gauntlets of ogre power and a belt of giant's strength to stack. This seems like enough evidence to strongly indicate that the gloves are special as well, or why should they be hidden with the hammer. If this isn't confirmed within three pages I'll eat my router.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-08, 11:45 AM

Let me add a caveat: barring a scene change.

Quartz

2019-02-08, 01:21 PM

If V prepares Bull's Strength, Roy doesn't need his Belt.

understatement

2019-02-08, 09:35 PM

Out of curiosity, do Crystal, Bozzok, or Right-eye not warrant enough information or relevance to have their stats counted?

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-09, 02:30 PM

Nowhere near enough information. All we know about Right-Eye is Male Goblin Rogue. Crystal is about Haley's level. Bozzok is higher than Haley's level, since he can sneak attack her. That's about it.

b_jonas

2019-02-09, 07:52 PM

All we know about Right-Eye is Male Goblin Rogue. Wait, he's a rogue? How do we know that? I sort of assumed he was a fighter.

As for Crystal, she has levels in something called Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html).

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-09, 08:02 PM

Wait, he's a rogue? How do we know that? I sort of assumed he was a fighter.
Right-Eye mentions being able to sneak attack Xykon during his duel with Dorukan. He could be multiclass, but if so he'd be able to wear heavier armor than he does.

As for Crystal, she has levels in something called Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html).
Assassin is a Core prestige class. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)

Actually, if Crystal has the same number of levels as Haley during the Greysky City arc, she should have 15 total levels. She mentions wanting "at least one more Assassin level," meaning that she can't have more than 8. She can't have more than 10 levels in a 10-level class before Epic levels, and if she had 9 levels, she couldn't gain more than one. So we could stat her as a Rogue 7-14/Assassin 1-8 (total level 15). . . at least before she died and became a homebrew golem.

danielxcutter

2019-02-10, 04:15 AM

Frostbite (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1058.html) is only in the Frostburn sourcebook; therefore it appears it's being used as well.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-11, 01:40 AM

Wait, he's a rogue? How do we know that? I sort of assumed he was a fighter.

As for Crystal, she has levels in something called Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html).

He explicitly mentions sneak attacking his brother when they're getting ready to attack the fort, and he also sneak attacks a treant.

danielxcutter

2019-02-11, 06:47 AM

He explicitly mentions sneak attacking his brother when they're getting ready to attack the fort, and he also sneak attacks a treant.

Goblins have Rogue as a favored class, so it's possible that he's multiclassed into, say, Fighter as well.

Borris

2019-02-15, 03:09 PM

It's probably been asked a hundred times before, but why is Tarquin not listed as having the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats? He's shown snatching arrows several times over the strips.

Peelee

2019-02-15, 03:11 PM

D.One

2019-02-15, 03:22 PM

It's probably been asked a hundred times before, but why is Tarquin not listed as having the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats? He's shown snatching arrows several times over the strips.

There's a long discussion on how did Tarquin snatch those arrows, mainly because Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows allow for only one deflection/snatch, and Tarquin has snatched two arrows , one with each hand. There's the epic feat Infinite Deflection, that would make him able to use deflection/snatch more than once per round, and there's a magic item called gloves of arrow snatching, that could in thesis do the trick also, but we couldn't conclude which one is being used.

I prefer the feat option, but I can't remember what was the main problem with the Infinite Deflection presented in the discussions.

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-15, 03:27 PM

I prefer the feat option, but I can't remember what was the main problem with the Infinite Deflection presented in the discussions.
The problem with Infinite Deflection was that, if used optimally, it would have permitted Tarquin to bat Haley's two arrows aside at the same time with the same hand, rather than catching them with both hands.

Tarquin was not shown wearing gloves, but there are two explanations for this: first, that the art style of the time wouldn't have permitted it (or at least, would only have permitted bulky gloves), and second, that gloves of arrow snaring have flavor text that says they seem to meld with the user's hands and become nearly invisible. The other problem with the gloves is that they are limited in use to twice per day while the feats are not limited in use, and Tarquin was seen snatching more than two arrows over the course of that day.

But it would be very like Tarquin to have both the feat chain (though not necessarily the Epic feat) and a redundant magic item.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-02-15, 03:33 PM

I prefer the interpretation that "arrow snatching feat works for every hand/grasping appendage that is free".

To this day, however, I don't think I quite understand why anyone would downgrade from arrow deflection to arrow snatching, given the first one works as often as needed, while the second one removes the ability to use either for the rest of the inter-round period.

(Note that this is not a complaint about Tarquin)

Grey Wolf

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-15, 03:37 PM

To this day, however, I don't think I quite understand why anyone would downgrade from arrow deflection to arrow snatching, given the first one works as often as needed, while the second one removes the ability to use either for the rest of the inter-round period.
Being able to use the snatched arrow as a stabbing weapon? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html)

If this seems like a low rate of return, remember that we're discussing a feat chain intended for Monks.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-02-15, 03:39 PM

Being able to use the snatched arrow as an improvised weapon? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html)

If this seems like a low rate of return, remember that we're discussing a feat chain intended for Monks.

I don't want to derail the thread but...

... Don't they do more damage with free hands than with any weapon? I mean, Tarquin would've definitely hurt Belkar more if he had used the axe, I'd imagine.

(Again, I want to insist I am not complaining about Tarquin doing something less-than-optimal; just wondering what the designers were thinking. If the answer is "it's more 'cool' if you catch things than merely deflect them", I'll take that, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I'm missing)

Grey Wolf

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-15, 03:43 PM

I don't want to derail the thread but...

... Don't they do more damage with free hands than with any weapon?

Grey Wolf
Monk fists have bigger base damage dice than most weapons, yes. No, it makes no sense to give them the ability to use found arrows as stabbing weapons. But nobody, except perhaps a younger, less-wise Skip Williams, ever said they were well-designed.

(Again, I want to insist I am not complaining about Tarquin doing something less-than-optimal; just wondering what the designers were thinking. If the answer is "it's more 'cool' if you catch things than merely deflect them", I'll take that, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I'm missing)
Yeah, this is probably the real explanation.

Borris

2019-02-16, 12:29 AM

danielxcutter

2019-02-16, 12:46 AM

"Thrown weapons can immediately be thrown back at the original attacker (even though it isn’t your turn)..."

That's how Snatch Arrows gets better than Deflect Arrows. Ironically doesn't work with arrows.

There's also Return Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#returnShot) for that, which does work with arrows.

Chronos

2019-02-16, 10:51 AM

Quoth zimmerwald1915:

The problem with Infinite Deflection was that, if used optimally, it would have permitted Tarquin to bat Haley's two arrows aside at the same time with the same hand, rather than catching them with both hands.
But no option would have obligated him to catch the arrows (and thus fall off the airship). The fact that he did so can only be called a mistake on his part. And the fact that he made that mistake doesn't tell us anything about what gives him the capability, and so we're right back to whatever best fits the rest of the evidence.

Peelee

2019-02-16, 11:08 AM

But no option would have obligated him to catch the arrows (and thus fall off the airship). The fact that he did so can only be called a mistake on his part.

Counterpoint: Tarquin could have reasoned that, at such a climactic moment, Haley's Icy Burst bow could trigger a crit and he could get frozen, fall of the airship anyway, and potentially die, instead of just being injured, so catching the arrows was the optimal choice.

The world runs on drama, Tarquin knows it, and as silly as it sounds it's not exactly a bad theory. It also adds zero information.

Emanick

2019-02-16, 06:16 PM

But no option would have obligated him to catch the arrows (and thus fall off the airship). The fact that he did so can only be called a mistake on his part. And the fact that he made that mistake doesn't tell us anything about what gives him the capability, and so we're right back to whatever best fits the rest of the evidence.

It was probably an automatic decision rather than a conscious one. Realistically, the brain can't do much thinking in the time between it sees arrows speeding towards it and when they arrive, so I don't think we need to assume that Tarquin made a conscious decision to catch the arrows. He probably just acted more or less on autopilot.

Resileaf

2019-02-16, 06:26 PM

Reflexes are indeed a thing. :smalltongue:

GrayGriffin

2019-02-16, 08:50 PM

I mean, most of the time when people are firing arrows at you you aren't going to be hanging off an airship, so I can see his first reflex response to "fired two arrows at me" to be "catch both of those arrows," especially since that's the cooler visual anyways.

Mightymosy

2019-02-17, 04:10 AM

Monk fists have bigger base damage dice than most weapons, yes. No, it makes no sense to give them the ability to use found arrows as stabbing weapons. But nobody, except perhaps a younger, less-wise Skip Williams, ever said they were well-designed.

Yeah, this is probably the real explanation.

And honestly, it works. (the explanation. it being cooler)

dps

2019-02-17, 07:19 AM

It was probably an automatic decision rather than a conscious one. Realistically, the brain can't do much thinking in the time between it sees arrows speeding towards it and when they arrive, so I don't think we need to assume that Tarquin made a conscious decision to catch the arrows. He probably just acted more or less on autopilot.

I totally agree, but of course, this doesn't help at all in figuring out how he did it.

Chronos

2019-02-17, 08:06 AM

OK, so that's a reason why he made the mistake. And yeah, it's probably a reasonable mistake to make. My point is, we can't say "It can't have have been <X>, because that wouldn't have obligated him to catch the arrows", because nothing else would have obligated that, either.

D.One

2019-02-18, 06:32 AM

The problem with Infinite Deflection was that, if used optimally, it would have permitted Tarquin to bat Haley's two arrows aside at the same time with the same hand, rather than catching them with both hands.

I've tthought that , but then I've read this:

You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. [...]

When using the Deflect Arrows feat you may catch the weapon instead of just deflecting it. Thrown weapons can immediately be thrown back at the original attacker (even though it isn’t your turn) or kept for later use.

You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat.

The character may perform any number of deflections each round, as the Deflect Arrows feat.

The way I read it (and I may be reading it wrong, but that's how I undersood it), both Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows require explicitly the user to have a hand free to perform the feat (and a hand holding an arrow isn't free anymore), Infinite Deflection brings the "as the Deflect Arrows feat", which makes me think it's subject to the same rules (aside number of deflections) as its "parent feat" (one must have a hand free to perform the deflections), and, since Snatch Arrows allows to catch the weapon instead of deflecting "when using Deflect Arrows", that would mean that someone with both Snatch Arrows and Infinite Deflection could catch any number of arrows, limited, of course, to one's number of free hands. This last limitation wouldn't be a problem if the user just deflected the arrow, since the hand wouldn't get full with just deflection.

As for why Tarquin snatched instead of just deflecting, I agree with everyone who said it was a mistake due to a reflex act and habit (most of the time during comic we've seem him snatching, not deflecting.

Ephemera

2019-02-18, 09:38 PM

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-19, 12:05 AM

Welcome to the world of overly pedantic rules interpretation.

Aquillion

2019-02-19, 01:06 AM

I know that RAW has nothing to say about this, so it’s not relevant...but how silly is it that you can throw knives back at the target for free (and thus presumably unlimited times per round if you have infinite deflection, if we’re assuming that infinite deflection applies to snatch arrows), but can’t drop an arrow and catch a new one?Can't you just use it as an improvised throwing weapon? Granted, the relevant text for thrown weapons is a bit unclear in terms of how it interacts with Snatch Arrows (it defines a narrow list of thrown weapons, but also notes that anything can be thrown.)

D.One

2019-02-19, 06:53 AM

Can't you just use it as an improvised throwing weapon? Granted, the relevant text for thrown weapons is a bit unclear in terms of how it interacts with Snatch Arrows (it defines a narrow list of thrown weapons, but also notes that anything can be thrown.)

I'd usually assume that arrows can indeed be thrown back as improvised thrown weapons. That said, if we suppose Tarquin had Deflect Arrows-Snatch Arrows-Infinite Deflection, the "why he didn't drop one arrow or just deflected them" is best explained by a mistake due to a split second decision.

OTOH:

Behold Dios Exma Chinnegan, Ranger 11/Fighter 20 with DEX 25, Deflect Arrow, Snatch Arrows, Infinite Deflection and Distant Shot who decimates armies who dare to throw volleys of arrows at him...

Ephemera

2019-02-19, 08:30 AM

Welcome to the world of overly pedantic rules interpretation.

This should have been our thread title.

Semi-more seriously, I’m not sure how I feel about “split second bad decision” or “reflex” as explanations. If you want to go all real-world on it, we’re talking about someone who has good enough reflexes to catch arrows and deflect infinite ones so I’m not sure normal split second reasoning applies. Or in game terms, I think generally we’ve seen that the characters get to make decisions (and talk) at tabletop game pace, so RAW aside I think we have to go with “bad decision” or “readied action (bad decision redux)” rather than reflex.

None of which is at all helpful—as noted he clearly made the decision and we probably will never know why. Heck, maybe he judged that he wasn’t going to be able to win and decided to exit the battle in the most dramatic/ironic/funniest method he could come up with. Or maybe he wears cursed gloves if arrow snatching that require him to always catch arrows or something more esoteric and equally unproveable...

b_jonas

2019-02-19, 10:13 AM

You could ask the same question about #858. Why did Tarquin catch the arrow with the smokestick there, instead of just deflecting it? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html)

"Thrown weapons can immediately be thrown back at the original attacker (even though it isn’t your turn)..." I'm imagining two jugglers with Snatch Arrows and Infinite Deflection feats throwing a knife back at each other in an infinite loop within the same turn. It would make an interesting circus act.

Resileaf

2019-02-19, 10:17 AM

You could ask the same question about #858. Why did Tarquin catch the arrow with the smokestick there, instead of just deflecting it? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html)

I'm imagining two jugglers with Snatch Arrows and Infinite Deflection feats throwing a knife back at each other in an infinite loop within the same turn. It would make an interesting circus act.

If I was a GM and this somehow happened... I'd decree that the universe explodes as the participants' speed breaks the fabric of time and space.

Reboot

2019-02-19, 10:41 AM

I know that RAW has nothing to say about this, so it’s not relevant...but how silly is it that you can throw knives back at the target for free (and thus presumably unlimited times per round if you have infinite deflection, if we’re assuming that infinite deflection applies to snatch arrows), but can’t drop an arrow and catch a new one?

I would certainly say that Infinite Deflection and Snatch Arrows are on separate feat chains, entirely distinct upgrades of Deflect Arrows, and that "Infinite Snatching" would require a separate feat again...

Aveline

2019-02-19, 11:56 AM

You could ask the same question about #858. Why did Tarquin catch the arrow with the smokestick there, instead of just deflecting it? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html)

I'm imagining two jugglers with Snatch Arrows and Infinite Deflection feats throwing a knife back at each other in an infinite loop within the same turn. It would make an interesting circus act.

This happens in high-level Super Smash Bros. Melee tournament play, when Fox/Falco players shield-deflect each others' volleys in a sort of reactor until someone's shield breaks.

Ephemera

2019-02-19, 09:25 PM

If I was a GM and this somehow happened... I'd decree that the universe explodes as the participants' speed breaks the fabric of time and space.

This thread is going to explode if we go any further down the path of re-opening this discussion, so I’ll butt out for now...

El Dorado

2019-02-21, 09:35 AM

I like to think that Tarquin sneaked in gloves of missile snaring from 2nd edition. They don’t have a per day cap.

D.One

2019-02-21, 02:30 PM

I like to think that Tarquin sneaked in gloves of missile snaring from 2nd edition. They don’t have a per day cap.

Well, that wouldn't be his sole addition from previous editions...

Ephemera

2019-02-21, 09:29 PM

I can’t help myself...did we ever consider whether he could own multiple pairs of gloves of missle snaring that he swaps out?

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-21, 09:50 PM

I can’t help myself...did we ever consider whether he could own multiple pairs of gloves of missle snaring that he swaps out?
We have. It works, but it's also silly, and there's no indication from the art that Tarquin is even wearing gloves, much less swapping them out.

b_jonas

2019-02-22, 04:08 AM

there's no indication from the art that Tarquin is even wearing gloves That's what I thought too in previous threads. But it turns out that the description of Gloves of Arrow Snaring in the rules says “Once snugly worn, these gloves seem to meld with the hands, becoming almost invisible”, so it would make sense if they weren't drawn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#glovesofArrowSnaring). I just prefer Infinite Deflection over the gloves because it makes a better thread title.

zimmerwald1915

2019-02-22, 09:31 AM

That's what I thought too in previous threads. But it turns out that the description of Gloves of Arrow Snaring in the rules says “Once snugly worn, these gloves seem to meld with the hands, becoming almost invisible”, so it would make sense if they weren't drawn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#glovesofArrowSnaring). I just prefer Infinite Deflection over the gloves because it makes a better thread title.
I know, I pointed it out. But you'd think that if he was swapping gloves out after every second arrow-snatch, as opposed to wearing a single pair of gloves all the time, there'd be some indication of that.

PirateMonk

2019-02-23, 01:04 PM

What's the specific evidence for Lien being five years older than Hinjo? It seems hard to reconcile with

Hinjo being a teenager in "How the Paladin Got His Scar", Lien being a minor in "Pier Pressure", and the former happening before the latter.

Of course, Burlew says in the Introduction that the timeline doesn't necessarily make sense, but it's potentially of interest whether the most plausible rationalization of it involves Hinjo being an unusually tall and mature twelve-year-old in HtPGHS and PP happening immediately afterward, or the information about their relative ages being incorrect, or something else.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-02-23, 01:47 PM

She explicitly states so in a bonus strip in DSTP.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-02-23, 03:41 PM

Also, i can’t explain Hinjo being unusually tall for a 12 year old, but he’d probably receive much more education on how to be mature, being (not certain at the time, but likely) nobility

Peelee

2019-02-23, 04:11 PM

Also, i can’t explain Hinjo being unusually tall for a 12 year old, but he’d probably receive much more education on how to be mature, being (not certain at the time, but likely) nobility

Not certain? They don't make commemorative plates out of just anyone! Well, unless it's a bad plate.

Aveline

2019-02-23, 05:07 PM

Also, i can’t explain Hinjo being unusually tall for a 12 year old, but he’d probably receive much more education on how to be mature, being (not certain at the time, but likely) nobility

He may have a case of chronic Tallness, like me. (I was six feet by the end of middle school.)

Edit: What I'm saying is that it isn't unusual for a child to be very tall.

Peelee

2019-02-23, 05:19 PM

He may have a case of chronic Tallness, like me. (I was six feet by the end of middle school.)

I feel bad for the children with intermittent tallness.

Aveline

2019-02-23, 07:39 PM

Blessed be the child with intermittent Tallness, for it is not their whole life through that they shall hit their head on things.

understatement

2019-02-24, 01:04 PM

Considering that the HPoT uses Thor's Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1019.html) against Greg, a vampire, and V later says that vampires are resistant to electricity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1091.html), I was wondering why the former would use lightning against a vampire, and if there was any other spell she could have used without harming all the other clerics.

I'm guessing Thor's Lightning which has been designed as a 3rd-level spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0873.html) has a divine component to it, like Loki/Hilgya's flame strike?

The SRD is down for me

Ephemera

2019-02-24, 02:06 PM

She explicitly states so in a bonus strip in DSTP.

Do we know for sure what “minor” means in Azure City? Technically you could probably work out the math so that Hinjo could have been 13 and change, since “5 years older” in common parlance could mean as little as 4.5 years, even assuming that “minor” means “below 18.” I don’t recall if the reference was more specific about Lien’s age.

13 would have been considered nearly a man (or fully one even) in a lot of medieval-ish societies historically. Which has precisely nothing to do with physical maturity in OOTS, of course...

NoHaxJustPi

2019-02-24, 03:09 PM

Lacuna Caster

2019-02-24, 03:21 PM

Of course, Burlew says in the Introduction that the timeline doesn't necessarily make sense...
Wait, what?

PirateMonk

2019-02-24, 04:48 PM

Wait, what?

Rereading, it's a bit more ambiguous than that:

I haven't assigned specific years to any of these events (because I always end up accidentally contradicting myself) but there are clues that should let you piece together how long ago each one happened, if you're clever.

So, possibly, leaving it in the form of vague clues instead of actual dates allows for some wiggle room of the "Hinjo had an early growth spurt" variety to avoid outright contradictions.

Do we know for sure what “minor” means in Azure City? Technically you could probably work out the math so that Hinjo could have been 13 and change, since “5 years older” in common parlance could mean as little as 4.5 years, even assuming that “minor” means “below 18.” I don’t recall if the reference was more specific about Lien’s age.

13 would have been considered nearly a man (or fully one even) in a lot of medieval-ish societies historically. Which has precisely nothing to do with physical maturity in OOTS, of course...

Hinjo says in HtPGHS that Lord Shojo is expected to make him heir on his eighteenth birthday, so that is most likely the Azurite age of majority. Of course, it's possible they have different thresholds for different purposes, and the "can become a paladin without her parents' consent" age is different from the "can inherit lordship of the city" age.

* * *

Also, O-chul implies that he's 42 in HtPGHS (pg 126 of GDGU/ pg 62 of Kickstarter PDF), so his minimum age should probably be updated accordingly.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-02-25, 09:15 AM

Since Hinjo was about 13, and he’s now 24, that places O-Chul at about 53.

ti'esar

2019-02-25, 05:54 PM

hamishspence

2019-02-25, 06:30 PM

I've said this before, but it's really weird to me that people are so determined to go with the "Hinjo was a really tall, mature 12 year old" interpretation instead of just disregarding, IIRC, a single line that causes the timeline error.

Indeed. It wouldn't be the only example of a bonus strip (the Lien one in Don't Split the Party) having problematic date references. The bonus strip of Shojo talking about putting the Mark on Belkar, is also dated wrong - 8 months ago when it should be 10 months or so - which The Giant later mentioned:

4.) The chart the deva shows should not be taken too literally. I didn't necessarily consult all possible references on how much time had passed when I drew it. I fudged it.

5.) Likewise, the "Eight months ago..." box in the bonus strip in Don't Split the Party is absolutely wrong; it should be more like ten months and some change. I think. I may still be getting it wrong.

Based on this quote about How the Paladin Got His Scar:

Hinjo is supposed to be around 15-16

and the fact that one of the paladins in Pier Pressure looks exactly like one of the paladins in How the Paladin Got His Scar, but older - more grey streaks in her hair -

I think it's safe to say that the Don't Split The Party bonus strip has been retconned - Lien is younger than Hinjo, rather than 5 years older.

Given that in Pier Pressure, Lien appears to be engaged in "illicit" smoking (with the excuse "I'm just holding it for a friend") she's probably younger than the "minimum smoking age" (typically 16 to 18) and, since this is quite some time after How The Paladin Got His Scar, what with the noticeably aged paladin, Hinjo is probably now adult at this point.

If you replace DStP's Lien line about Hinjo: "silver spoon aristocrat five years my junior" with "silver spoon aristocrat five years my elder" it actually falls into place rather neatly.

D.One

2019-02-26, 05:57 AM

I must say, for the purpose of this thread, I mostly care about age when it implies in age categories. That said, we have contradictory information both from official sources, so we can make up our minds with what makes more sense.

hroþila

2019-02-26, 06:52 AM

I've said this before, but it's really weird to me that people are so determined to go with the "Hinjo was a really tall, mature 12 year old" interpretation instead of just disregarding, IIRC, a single line that causes the timeline error.
It is not weird to make assumptions that try to reconcile all the published text (even if the conclusion is a bit wonky) instead of assuming there has to be a mistake. It's what we've been told to do, including by the author himself.

hamishspence

2019-02-26, 07:01 AM

Also, O-chul implies that he's 42 in HtPGHS (pg 126 of GDGU/ pg 62 of Kickstarter PDF), so his minimum age should probably be updated accordingly.

The tricky part is calibrating O-Chul's age using Hinjo. We know he's 15 to 16 in HtPGHS and 23 in War & XPs - but there's quite a bit of flexibility.

Is he a young 15 (only just turned 15) or an old 16 (nearly 17?)
Is he in War & XPs a young 23 (just celebrated his birthday) or an old 23, almost 24?)

If he's a young 15 and an old 23 - then almost 9 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 51 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

If he's an old 16 and a young 23, then only just over 6 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 48 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

knag

2019-02-26, 11:36 AM

The tricky part is calibrating O-Chul's age using Hinjo. We know he's 15 to 16 in HtPGHS and 23 in War & XPs - but there's quite a bit of flexibility.

Is he a young 15 (only just turned 15) or an old 16 (nearly 17?)
Is he in War & XPs a young 23 (just celebrated his birthday) or an old 23, almost 24?)

If he's a young 15 and an old 23 - then almost 9 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 51 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

If he's an old 16 and a young 23, then only just over 6 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 48 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

Why does O-Chul's age need to be anchored to Hinjo's?

O-Chul was 12 when he was adopted. HtPGHS is 30 years later, making him 42. HtPGHS is 22 years after the Sapphire Guard raid on the goblin village in SoD. That raid happened 34 years before DCF, which takes place in 1183. So the raid was in 1149, and HtPGHS is in 1171. O-Chul was born in 1129, making him currently 54 or 55 depending on when his birthday is, but likely 55 because 1184 is nearly over, as we know from Belkar's death prophesy and many other timeline details. He was certainly 54 in WXP.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-01, 09:09 AM

Wouldn’t durkon be 13th level? Before being raised twice, he was level 15, having created a symbol of death, which is 8th level.

hamishspence

2019-03-01, 09:48 AM

Why does O-Chul's age need to be anchored to Hinjo's?

O-Chul was 12 when he was adopted. HtPGHS is 30 years later, making him 42. HtPGHS is 22 years after the Sapphire Guard raid on the goblin village in SoD. That raid happened 34 years before DCF, which takes place in 1183. So the raid was in 1149, and HtPGHS is in 1171. O-Chul was born in 1129, making him currently 54 or 55 depending on when his birthday is, but likely 55 because 1184 is nearly over, as we know from Belkar's death prophesy and many other timeline details. He was certainly 54 in WXP.

The problem is - we know Hinjo is 23 in War & XPs (the character page). And we know Hinjo is about 15 or 16 in HtPGHS (Word of Giant).

Thus, we can deduce that HtPGHS must take place 7 or 8 years before War & XPs (9 at the absolute most - which requires Hinjo to have only just turned 15 in HtPGHS, and be almost 24 at the start of War & XPs).

So it can't be any earlier than 1175.

The gap between books being 13 years instead of 9, makes Hinjo far too young, contradicting The Giant's statement. He ends up being around 11 or so, counting backward from War & XPs.

The "22 years" figure isn't the time since the raid - it's the time since The Sapphire Guard discovered the Crimson Mantle was important.
I would speculate that around 4 years or so after the raid on Redcloak's village, the Sapphire Guard discovered the Crimson Mantle was an important artifact, not just a badge of office, and Gin-Jun's search began then, and it's that date he refers to when he says he's been searching for 22 years.

D.One

2019-03-01, 10:01 AM

Wouldn’t durkon be 13th level? Before being raised twice, he was level 15, having created a symbol of death, which is 8th level.

Yeah, I agree level 13+ would be the most correct estimate.

Resileaf

2019-03-01, 10:30 AM

Raise dead gives two negative levels and resurrection one, which means that Durkon lost three levels from these deaths.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-01, 10:32 AM

Raise dead gives two negative levels

What?

"The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. "

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm

Grey Wolf

Resileaf

2019-03-01, 11:13 AM

What?

"The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. "

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm

Grey Wolf

My bad. I thought PF and D&D raise deads were the same.

hamishspence

2019-03-01, 01:35 PM

1184 is nearly over, as we know from Belkar's death prophesy and many other timeline details.

It probably is over. The Azurite new year is "a few months" after the Northern one. So, maybe March or so.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0302.html

1.) Everything that references a year number "1183" or "1184" is using the Northern calendar. The Southern calendar has a different year attached, but I have avoided using it to keep from confusing casual readers (e.g. anyone not posting on this thread).

2.) The Oracle is using the Southern calendar in his prediction to Roy. Meaning that the "seven weeks" Roy talks about is the time until the new New Year, exactly one year from the celebration seen back in Azure City.

3.) All other references are to relative time...no matter which calendar Redcloak uses, a year is a year, and during the Gobbotopia scenes he announced that it was six years until the one-year-anniversary of the battle. Since the battle took place about a week after the New Year, that means two weeks have passed since Roy's "seven weeks" comment--a few days to travel to Sandsedge, a week spent searching the desert, and a few days looking around the cities on the continent.

A few days at most lapse between this, and the end of the book. And one week has gone by since the end of Blood Runs in the Family.

3 days between Books 5 and 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html)
12 hours between that and Tinkertown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0956.html)
Godsmoot takes place the day after the Tinkertown sequence (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0989.html)
It takes around 2 days for the Council of Clans to gather (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html); at least a day passes between that and arriving at Firmament (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html)

I take the first link to mean 3 days inclusive, as in day 1 = the day of Durkon's vampirization, day 2 = briefly seen in #946 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), and day 3 = start of Book 6. This seems to match with Vampire Durkon's meal plan:
Day 1: first day of existence; Durkon doesn't need any donation because he drained Belkar
Day 2: Roy is drained off-screen between books
Day 3: Elan is drained and says it's his first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0958.html)
Day 4: Haley was drained right before the Godsmoot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html)
Day 5: Durkon and his minions feast upon local dwarves toward the very end of this day (after dusk since "Ponchula" hadn't refreshed her spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1124.html) between casting the quick-rise spell and her destruction)
Day 6: Durkon is slain before or around dawn

So we're looking at about 4 weeks till the Azurite New Year. Since the Northern New Year, which is what's numbered, is "a few months before", it's safe to say that it's already been and gone, and we are at least a month or more into 1185.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-01, 01:48 PM

It probably is over. The Azurite new year is "a few months" after the Northern one. So, maybe March or so.

Given that the Northern continent is the "default Medieval Western Europe trope land" that would make sense. Most calendars developed in places with seasons tend to start the year in Spring, because that make sense. Heck, the Romans used to do it too, which is why October is "the eight month" despite being, you know, the tenth one.

The Romans moved the start of the year to mid-winter because they needed to run elections for consul every year and as their wars went further afield, the time it took for the new consuls to join the troops started to seriously cut into campaign-in-good-weather time. After the change, they ran elections during winter (which is a miserable time to be out and about warring) and have consuls ready to lead the troops by the time they left the winter quarters.

So, I'm guessing that in OotS something similar happened: a few worlds ago, the Northern gods decided to move their start of year to mid-winter for whatever reason, and then they simply never put it back to a logical place, because momentum (I mean, I suppose it might have been something that a Northern kingdom did in this world, but it feels more like the kind of thing that would be carried into the world than something that gets reinvented every time).

Grey Wolf

Flame of Anor

2019-03-01, 11:03 PM

I imagine this has been gone over, but why don't we have an upper limit for Xykon's caster level from Durkon's successful dispel in 429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)? Is the upper limit so low that we have to ignore it and assume houserules?

zimmerwald1915

2019-03-01, 11:31 PM

Is the upper limit so low that we have to ignore it and assume houserules?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

hamishspence

2019-03-02, 04:38 AM

If Xykon was level 22 at the time, the DC to match would be 33, and if Durkon was level 13, and rolled a 20, he would get 33.

So, it's theoretically possible for a level 13 Durkon to dispel a level 22 Xykon's spells. That said, a level 22 Xykon is kind of problematic.

Emanick

2019-03-02, 09:44 AM

I always assumed Redcloak cast the Greater Invisibility spell, in order to resolve that problem.

MultitudeMan

2019-03-02, 10:37 AM

I always assumed Redcloak cast the Greater Invisibility spell, in order to resolve that problem.

I don't think clerics get Greater Invisibility on their spell list, unless we're positing some variant cleric class for Redcloak that I haven't heard of.

understatement

2019-03-02, 10:44 AM

Also, Xykon says he controls the zombie dragon, but wasn't it Redcloak who Animated it?

SRD mentions it "remain[s] under your control indefinitely"

dps

2019-03-02, 11:49 AM

Given that the Northern continent is the "default Medieval Western Europe trope land" that would make sense. Most calendars developed in places with seasons tend to start the year in Spring, because that make sense. Heck, the Romans used to do it too, which is why October is "the eight month" despite being, you know, the tenth one.

Grey Wolf

No, October is the "eight month" despite being the tenth one because the Romans originally used a calendar with a 10-month year, but later reformed their calendar to add 2 more months.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-02, 12:24 PM

Also, Xykon says he controls the zombie dragon, but wasn't it Redcloak who Animated it?

SRD mentions it "remain[s] under your control indefinitely"

Where are you getting that RC animated it? The only thing he's explicitly mentioned animating are the three Xykon decoys. I might have missed something, though.

understatement

2019-03-02, 12:30 PM

Where are you getting that RC animated it? The only thing he's explicitly mentioned animating are the three Xykon decoys. I might have missed something, though.

First panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html) Panel 12 shows it starting to flap its wings, so it's definitely RC animating the dragon.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-02, 02:52 PM

No, October is the "eight month" despite being the tenth one because the Romans originally used a calendar with a 10-month year, but later reformed their calendar to add 2 more months.

[citation needed]. Mine is The History of Rome podcast.

The roman year used to not particularly care much about the winter months, yes, but they reformed the calendar to move up the elections, as I said.

Grey Wolf

PirateMonk

2019-03-02, 03:10 PM

The tricky part is calibrating O-Chul's age using Hinjo. We know he's 15 to 16 in HtPGHS and 23 in War & XPs - but there's quite a bit of flexibility.

Is he a young 15 (only just turned 15) or an old 16 (nearly 17?)
Is he in War & XPs a young 23 (just celebrated his birthday) or an old 23, almost 24?)

If he's a young 15 and an old 23 - then almost 9 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 51 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

If he's an old 16 and a young 23, then only just over 6 years have gone by between the two books - making O-Chul around 48 in War & XPs (plus or minus a few months).

I'm not saying we need to pin down a specific age for O-Chul, just that the currently listed figure of 29+ is way less precise than it could be, to the point of being potentially misleading. 42+, 48+, 48-51, and 48-55 would all be fine.

danielxcutter

2019-03-02, 06:13 PM

Well, maybe Xykon cast it from a scroll or something. Sorcerers have a limited number of spells known and maybe he just doesn't have it. I sure don't remember him using it himself.

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-02, 07:41 PM

Do we have any information on the statistics of the Exarch?

zimmerwald1915

2019-03-02, 07:48 PM

Do we have any information on the statistics of the Exarch?
He's at least a 5th-level Cleric.

Peelee

2019-03-02, 07:48 PM

Do we have any information on the statistics of the Exarch?

Yes!

Dwarf, Cleric 1+, vampire template.

dps

2019-03-02, 10:17 PM

[citation needed]. Mine is The History of Rome podcast.

The roman year used to not particularly care much about the winter months, yes, but they reformed the calendar to move up the elections, as I said.

Grey Wolf

According to Wikipedia, you're correct. I was going off my memory of the article on the calendar in the 1973 World Book Encyclopedia which I read 45 years ago.

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-03, 12:06 AM

According to Wikipedia, you're correct. I was going off my memory of the article on the calendar in the 1973 World Book Encyclopedia which I read 45 years ago.

Fair enough, although I wanted on the record that I consider The History of Rome podcast a better citation source than Wikipedia. After all, for all you know, I went into the article the moment after I made my claim to edit in my position.

(OK, you could check the history and see I did no such thing, but I'm fairly positive you didn't do it before I mentioned it in this post)

Grey Wolf

danielxcutter

2019-03-03, 12:09 AM

Yes!

Dwarf, Cleric 1+, vampire template.

Probably Cleric 5+, since he's a full-fledged vampire instead of a spawn, but then again we hardly know if he has other levels in say, Fighter, or a prestige class.

For some reason I thought #995 mentioned he had 7th-level spell slots, but it just says "high-level spell slots", so meh.

Actually, I don't think we have seen him actually cast spells yet, now I think of it.

understatement

2019-03-03, 04:59 PM

Probably Cleric 5+, since he's a full-fledged vampire instead of a spawn, but then again we hardly know if he has other levels in say, Fighter, or a prestige class.

For some reason I thought #995 mentioned he had 7th-level spell slots, but it just says "high-level spell slots", so meh.

Actually, I don't think we have seen him actually cast spells yet, now I think of it.

Is his Con score able to be calculated by how quickly Durkula drains his blood?

Peelee

2019-03-03, 05:04 PM

Is his Con score able to be calculated by how quickly Durkula drains his blood?

Sure!

Con: 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html)

Ephemera

2019-03-03, 08:45 PM

Sure!

Con: 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html)

Eventually someone is going to create a secondary thread to track all stats of any character about whom we can deduce anything at all.

If it weren’t to much work (and probably against board rules) someone would probably already have made one to track most likely stats (rather than what we do, which is track min/max provable/possible, within some semi-defined rules of plausibility). Well, except for the part where you’d never achieve agreement about what’s most likely...

Seward

2019-03-04, 02:23 AM

My bad. I thought PF and D&D raise deads were the same.

Pathfinder negative levels from being raised are just like being level drained and can be cured with restoration.

D&D negative levels from death are permanent.

The pathfinder authors considered falling behind your party due to death/raise was stupid, and made the incapacity temporary. I've had a lowish level character in Pathfinder killed, spent most of his wealth getting a raise and had to endure the level loss for a couple adventures until he could afford the more expensive material compents for two restoration spells. (it's expensive if you pass the 24 hour period in pathfinder). Once you can afford the restoration+raise in one go (level 9ish) then death is mostly just expensive.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-03-04, 02:26 AM

And largely meaningless, IME.

Seward

2019-03-04, 02:27 AM

Also, Xykon says he controls the zombie dragon, but wasn't it Redcloak who Animated it?

SRD mentions it "remain[s] under your control indefinitely"

Xykon is a necromancer. He animates lots of things in Start of Darkness. Presumably one of his spells known is one of the larger create undead spells.

Edit: Command Undead is a level 2 sor/wiz spell which would give a sorcerer of Xykon's strength the power to seize control of just about any size zombie, with full "dominate" level of control and no saving throw.

That's almost certainly how it was done since as another poster has mentioned, Redcloak is shown doing the animation.

Seward

2019-03-04, 02:35 AM

And largely meaningless, IME.

At level 9, death goes from "seriously a problem until you scrape up the cash and find a high level cleric" to "this is a serious hit to our wealth by level".

By level 15ish, the way Hilgya behaved is fairly accurate. It is about as expensive as buying a "Fly" potion back at level 5, so as long as it isn't your high level cleric that is dead, it's a "fill an empty slot and cast" or at worst "rest and regain spells" kind of situation. At L15 getting one of your expensive items destroyed is much more serious than getting a party member killed.

By epic (say level 24), you can rebuild an adequate gear set out of petty cash, and a henchman can cast true resurrection any time you fail to respond to a daily Sending. You care much more about your reputation than anything else on your character sheet.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-04, 09:31 AM

When is Durkon’s level going to be updated? Vampire Durkon cast Symbol of Death, meaning he was level 15 or higher, and with the level reduction, puts him at 13+

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-04, 09:36 AM

When is Durkon’s level going to be updated? Vampire Durkon cast Symbol of Death, meaning he was level 15 or higher, and with the level reduction, puts him at 13+

In a few months' time, I'd imagine. That's the usual timeframe for revisions to the OP. Why, are you in a hurry or something?

Grey Wolf

Reboot

2019-03-04, 10:33 AM

In a few months' time, I'd imagine. That's the usual timeframe for revisions to the OP. Why, are you in a hurry or something?

Grey Wolf

Thing is, it was already known at the time of the last update that he was 13+, not 12+ - Durkula's entry even says 15...! - it's an error, not a change since the update.

knag

2019-03-04, 03:24 PM

The problem is - we know Hinjo is 23 in War & XPs (the character page). And we know Hinjo is about 15 or 16 in HtPGHS (Word of Giant).

Thus, we can deduce that HtPGHS must take place 7 or 8 years before War & XPs (9 at the absolute most - which requires Hinjo to have only just turned 15 in HtPGHS, and be almost 24 at the start of War & XPs).

So it can't be any earlier than 1175.

The gap between books being 13 years instead of 9, makes Hinjo far too young, contradicting The Giant's statement. He ends up being around 11 or so, counting backward from War & XPs.

The "22 years" figure isn't the time since the raid - it's the time since The Sapphire Guard discovered the Crimson Mantle was important.
I would speculate that around 4 years or so after the raid on Redcloak's village, the Sapphire Guard discovered the Crimson Mantle was an important artifact, not just a badge of office, and Gin-Jun's search began then, and it's that date he refers to when he says he's been searching for 22 years.

That's a pretty convincing retcon, but re-reading HtPGHS and how it cuts to the scene from SoD right after the "22 years" remark makes it pretty clear that Gin Jun is referring to that episode as occurring 22 years ago. My feeling is that the Giant published canon material which is not internally consistent from a timeline point of view. I believe has has made statements to the effect that it doesn't all work out and that he wasn't thinking about this stuff earlier on.

I'm on the fence about whether I should keep both dates, the "22 years" date, or your retcon in the wiki timeline...

knag

2019-03-04, 03:29 PM

I'm not saying we need to pin down a specific age for O-Chul, just that the currently listed figure of 29+ is way less precise than it could be, to the point of being potentially misleading. 42+, 48+, 48-51, and 48-55 would all be fine.

Agreed. 48-55 encompasses the full range of the ambiguity.

hamishspence

2019-03-04, 03:31 PM

Given The Giant's "15 to 16" age clarification for Hinjo is so recent - I think it should be taken into account.

So either "War & XPs Hinjo's age" is wrong - with him (and Miko) being retconned as several years older than their ages in that book suggest, or Gin-Jun's "searching for 22 years" reference needs to be fudged - ruled as referring to the moment they discovered the Cloak was a danger in itself and abandoning it was a mistake - some years after the actual massacre.

IMO it's easier just to fudge Gin-Jun's statement.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-04, 03:33 PM

Fudging the statement would actually be somewhat reasonable to make the timeline fit. They might not have known the Mantle was powerful for some time after the raid.

Peelee

2019-03-04, 03:35 PM

IMO it's easier just to fudge Gin-Jun's statement.

I don't event think it needs to be fudged; it reads pretty naturally that way. If ten years ago I found a ring on the beach and tossed it aside, then five years later found out it was a Ring of Three Wishes and went back to look for it, I wouldn't say "for ten years I've been looking for that!"

knag

2019-03-04, 03:42 PM

But if you just fudge Hinjo's age in WXP, then you don't need to also fudge Lien's line about how she's older than him. Aging up current-day Hinjo takes care of that little detail.

hamishspence

2019-03-04, 03:45 PM

I don't event think it needs to be fudged; it reads pretty naturally that way. If ten years ago I found a ring on the beach and tossed it aside, then five years later found out it was a Ring of Three Wishes and went back to look for it, I wouldn't say "for ten years I've been looking for that!"
"Fudged" - "reinterpreted" - either way, it's not a hard-and-fast guarantee of the massacre having taken place 22 years before.

But if you just fudge Hinjo's age in WXP, then you don't need to also fudge Lien's line about how she's older than him. Aging up current-day Hinjo takes care of that little detail.

No matter what you do, the fact that the anthology is in reverse date order, most recent to least recent, combined with the fact that teenaged Lien in the more recently set Pier Pressure is noticeably shorter than her adult self whereas teenaged Hinjo in Scar is not noticeably shorter, IMO makes "Lien is 5 years older than Hinjo" extremely implausible.

So, at least one published book appears to be getting at least one age retcon. Even if it's just Lien's age that changes.

Given that one of the Sapphire Guard paladins in Pier Pressure looks exactly like an older version of one of the paladins in Scar (same haircut and outfit, but grey streaks) it seems pretty obvious that Pier Pressure is some time after Scar.

zimmerwald1915

2019-03-04, 04:51 PM

Thing is, it was already known at the time of the last update that he was 13+, not 12+ - Durkula's entry even says 15...! - it's an error, not a change since the update.
There are some people who are adamant that Durkon's vampire uses its own game-mechanical stats and not Durkon's, despite the whole reason Hel made it her High Priest was because it got all of Durkon's Cleric levels. Durkon probably won't be listed as 13+ until we actually see him cast a 7th-level spell post-resurrection :smallsigh:

Ephemera

2019-03-04, 09:17 PM

There are some people who are adamant that Durkon's vampire uses its own game-mechanical stats and not Durkon's, despite the whole reason Hel made it her High Priest was because it got all of Durkon's Cleric levels. Durkon probably won't be listed as 13+ until we actually see him cast a 7th-level spell post-resurrection :smallsigh:

On the other hand, Durkon pretty clearly defeated Greg, right? Given the latter’s ECL (or whatever), shouldn’t that be worth a whole mess of experience? Or not...this gets into the whole question of whether in game-mechanical terms Durkon is separate enough from Greg to merit that as an encounter or if Durkon is only getting role playing XP for it.

I don’t think “Durkon may not be the same character as Greg and might not be getting XP that Greg earned” is the same as “Greg didn’t get Durkon’s stats plus the vampire template. I’d submit that if you think it’s even a valid question whether we ought to be awarding XP to Durkon for defeating Greg that we have to question whether “XP works just like it would if Durkon’s (non-existent but that’s neither here nor there) ‘player’ has been role playing Greg this whole time” is an adequate assumption in game mechanical terms.

Douglas

2019-03-04, 09:44 PM

I don’t think “Durkon may not be the same character as Greg and might not be getting XP that Greg earned” is the same as “Greg didn’t get Durkon’s stats plus the vampire template. I’d submit that if you think it’s even a valid question whether we ought to be awarding XP to Durkon for defeating Greg that we have to question whether “XP works just like it would if Durkon’s (non-existent but that’s neither here nor there) ‘player’ has been role playing Greg this whole time” is an adequate assumption in game mechanical terms.
Greg's ECL was so high that it's implausible that he could have gained any significant amount of xp, much less enough to level up. Even killing and converting all those clerics at the Godsmoot probably got him exactly 0 xp because they were more than 8 (effective) levels lower than him. Same for fighting Roy. Greg spawned with the xp Durkon had and faced no combat challenges sufficiently tough to give him xp, so unless he got enough ad hoc roleplaying and quest xp to give him a level just from that, then Durkon was the same level as Greg until his resurrection.

Ephemera

2019-03-04, 10:29 PM

Greg's ECL was so high that it's implausible that he could have gained any significant amount of xp, much less enough to level up. Even killing and converting all those clerics at the Godsmoot probably got him exactly 0 xp because they were more than 8 (effective) levels lower than him. Same for fighting Roy. Greg spawned with the xp Durkon had and faced no combat challenges sufficiently tough to give him xp, so unless he got enough ad hoc roleplaying and quest xp to give him a level just from that, then Durkon was the same level as Greg until his resurrection.

Oh, yah, that was unclear. I have no problem with “Durkon leveled before he died.” I was asking how much XP Durkon gets for defeating Greg with the memories...

understatement

2019-03-06, 04:25 PM

So, uh, is there an estimate of the Exarch's level? Since he could cast Gate with a scroll?

Or can any cleric do it?

Jasdoif

2019-03-06, 04:29 PM

So, uh, is there an estimate of the Exarch's level? Since he could cast Gate with a scroll?

Or can any cleric do it?A first-level cleric with Wisdom 19 could possibly make the caster level check to activate the scroll above their own caster level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell), yes.

Peelee

2019-03-06, 04:32 PM

A first-level cleric with Wisdom 19 could possibly make the caster level check to activate the scroll above their own caster level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell), yes.
My analysis was flawless. :smallbiggrin:

Yes!

Dwarf, Cleric 1+, vampire template.

understatement

2019-03-06, 04:39 PM

Sigh.

He's just not going to cast any spells to demonstrate his level, isn't he.

Doug Lampert

2019-03-06, 04:43 PM

So, uh, is there an estimate of the Exarch's level? Since he could cast Gate with a scroll?

Or can any cleric do it?

Any cleric with 19+ Wis can attempt it, it's a caster level check, with a likely DC of 18, and no major penalty for missing unless he rolls a natural 1 on a separate wisdom check.

Ninja, but I'll leave mine up as the fact that there's little downside to trying is still relevant.

monomer

2019-03-06, 04:52 PM

Now I want to know why the Matriarch was carrying around a Gate Scroll.

Jasdoif

2019-03-06, 04:55 PM

Now I want to know why the Matriarch was carrying around a Gate Scroll.I'm fairly certain the Exarch was talking about Gontor's body, especially with the "when it died" part.

monomer

2019-03-06, 04:58 PM

I'm fairly certain the Exarch was talking about Gontor's body, especially with the "when it died" part.

Ahh, yes, Thanks, that makes a lot more sense, especially considering the Matriarch didn't die yet, just her daughter.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-07, 09:42 AM

We know about what caster level Haley’s wand of Magic Missile is. It has 3 missiles in 973, so it’s a 5th or 6th level wand.

Chronos

2019-03-07, 05:35 PM

I think we definitely have to retcon Lien's statement that she's 5 years older than Hinjo. Even aside from the paladin who appears to be the same in both (but older in Lien's story), we know that "Pier Pressure" absolutely must come after "How the Paladin Got his Scar" chronologically, because Lien's a commoner and being recruited into the Sapphire Guard, and the Sapphire Guard didn't recruit commoners before then. And we know that, as of PP, Lien is not yet of the age of majority. That would mean, as an absolute bound, that Hinjo in HtPGhS must be at least five years away from the age of majority, and probably younger yet, which strains credulity. And considering that all of those points are plot-relevant, while the relevance of Lien's statement would be equivalent if she instead said "five years younger", I think that's the obvious choice of what to change.

On Gontor, meanwhile, don't we know that he's at least level 7? He said that he and the other stone clerics constructed the godsmoot cathedral using Stone Shape.

NoHaxJustPi

2019-03-07, 07:02 PM

He doesn't explicitly mention what spell they used, though. However, if that's the lowest spell possible for constructing something out of stone, that's a reasonable lower bound.

rferries

2019-03-08, 01:37 AM

Quartz

2019-03-08, 10:14 AM

On Gontor, meanwhile, don't we know that he's at least level 7? He said that he and the other stone clerics constructed the godsmoot cathedral using Stone Shape.

To cast Gate from a scroll without possibility of failure he has to be 17th level.

hamishspence

2019-03-08, 10:18 AM

What are the OOTS's chances against the nightcrawler? It actually seems well-suited to resist them - DR/silver & high SR make it resistant to most spells and attacks (even V has to roll a 14 or higher to beat the SR), undead (immune to most of Elan's abilities and Haley's sneak attack), immune to cold (and therefore Haley's frost bow)... I get the impression Roy's plot-sword will have to save the day (or V will have to get lucky with a few choice spells).

Haley does carry silver arrows at least (hence being able to use a silver and a cold iron together against Sabine). It's immune to the extra frost damage, but the physical damage from the arrows themselves, if silver, will work, since magic bows imbue their magic on their ammo.

To cast Gate from a scroll without possibility of failure he has to be 17th level.

Doesn't he need a Wis of 19 to be able to activate it at all?

We know he needs to be at least level 13 for the Nightcrawler to be controlled at all when called (2xHD of caster, for single monsters).

Aeson

2019-03-08, 10:36 AM

Doesn't he need a Wis of 19 to be able to activate it at all?
Yes. From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm):

Activation
To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions.

Decipher the Writing
The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).

Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.

Activate the Spell
Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

- The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
- The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
- The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
Gate's a level 9 spell, so the vampire requires 19 wisdom (or possibly 19 intelligence/charisma, if it's an Arcane scroll and the vampire is something along the lines of a mystic theurge, not that we've seen any signs of that).

Quartz isn't wrong inasmuch as the vampire would need a caster level of 17 (assuming that the scroll is the minimum caster level for a ninth level scroll) in order to cast a Gate scroll without a chance of failure, but I don't think anything in the rules suggests that successfully activating the scroll on the first attempt to use it would look any different whether a caster level check was required or not and as such I don't think its successful use of the scroll can really be used to set its minimum character level, at least not in any meaningful way.

Doug Lampert

2019-03-08, 01:58 PM

He doesn't explicitly mention what spell they used, though. However, if that's the lowest spell possible for constructing something out of stone, that's a reasonable lower bound.

Except that Stone Shape is only level 3 for clerics, so it gives us the same lower bound as being a vampire in the first place.

Stone Shape
Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Earth 3, Sor/Wiz 4

Note that the Creed of the Stone just might have Earth as a domain, so he's probably got it both as a regular spell and as a domain spell at level 5.

We know he needs to be at least level 13 for the Nightcrawler to be controlled at all when called (2xHD of caster, for single monsters).

Because he's given so many orders to the Nightcrawler since it showed up and there is no chance that Hel will assure that it does what they want (hint: It has Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 18 and is undead, it can follow Hel without orders and cooperate with the Exexarch without being under control as well as anyone).

Ephemera

2019-03-08, 09:21 PM

Because he's given so many orders to the Nightcrawler since it showed up and there is no chance that Hel will assure that it does what they want (hint: It has Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 18 and is undead, it can follow Hel without orders and cooperate with the Exexarch without being under control as well as anyone).

Yah, that’s probably right. It seems, at minimum, a pretty munchkin move to open a gate to your goddess who happens to send through a creature to fight for you instead of regarding that as a summon, but there’s no particular RAW reason why that couldn’t be happening here.

Doug Lampert

2019-03-08, 10:01 PM

Yah, that’s probably right. It seems, at minimum, a pretty munchkin move to open a gate to your goddess who happens to send through a creature to fight for you instead of regarding that as a summon, but there’s no particular RAW reason why that couldn’t be happening here.

I actually consider using Gate like some sort of uber summons to be the munchkin use. Calling a natural ally to come help you without compulsion is what I consider to be the reasonable use.

Gate in a servant of your goddess, chosen by your goddess, while on a vital mission for your goddess, and treat it as an ally rather than a special ability to summon anything up to double your HD and order it around. This is not the munchkin use.

[For the Record: I think the ExExarch is probably level 14 or so, but he hasn't done anything to demonstrate this level yet.]

Ephemera

2019-03-09, 09:01 AM

I actually consider using Gate like some sort of uber summons to be the munchkin use. Calling a natural ally to come help you without compulsion is what I consider to be the reasonable use.

Gate in a servant of your goddess, chosen by your goddess, while on a vital mission for your goddess, and treat it as an ally rather than a special ability to summon anything up to double your HD and order it around. This is not the munchkin use.

Interesting. See, I feel like the gate spell contains specific limitations on strength of a summons as well as an extra cost to use it that way, so this feels like skirting that cost. Totally reasonable plot wise, but the whole “instructed by/ally of my goddess” part would seem to be encompassed mechanically as the mechanism by which you can summon something with a gate spell in the first place.

That said, this is probably vaguely off-topic since we are in agreement that this isn’t going to shed any light on the ex-Exarch’s level.

Zenzis

2019-03-09, 09:53 AM

Ephemera

2019-03-10, 12:51 PM

I would think the nightcrawler is uncontrolled, since the Exarch didn't pay it and yet probably wants it to stick around for more than 1 round/CL to guard the entrance. Of course the line "Fighting for you in a single battle" makes it a bit trickier. Can that battle be in the future? It seems it would be ridiculous to ask for a battle 100 years in the future or something, but maybe a short time in the future is okay? I would rule no to the first and yes to the second as a GM, but it seems like RAW it should be either no to both or yes to both. But despite this line, the Exarch seems to think Thor might send in some cavalry, so he probably wants it for more than a single battle.

I mean, technically we don’t know that yet, he could be about to command it or enter into a protracted 3-strip-long negotiation with it. But I’m willing to be that even paying an XP cost is a level of in-the-weeds mechanics that the giant would rather not get into so I doubt we ever know.

Chronos

2019-03-15, 11:48 AM

We don't know that Not-Gontor activated the scroll without a chance of failure. All we know is that he activated the scroll. And the minimum caster level for doing that is 1 (though he does still need the 19 Wis).

Once he's activated the scroll (by luck or by guarantee), his stats no longer matter. The Gate spell is cast at the scroll's caster level (which is at least and probably equal to 17), and any XP cost was already paid by the scroll's creator.

Given that he's on a direct mission from his deity, and that it's her absolute highest priority, and given his phrasing of "giving our mistress the opportunity to send reinforcements", I think that it's likely that he just used the "open the portal" option, giving whatever was on the other side the opportunity to choose to come through. The Nightcrawler is therefore uncontrolled, and he wasn't guaranteed to get a Nightcrawler to begin with, but he had reason to be confident that something helpful would come through, and the Nightcrawler presumably shares his goals even without being controlled.

It's also possible that the Nightcrawler was only the first thing to come through, and that there will be yet more reinforcements.

And my mistake on Stone Shape's level-- I have 5e on my brain, and didn't think to double-check it in the 3e rules.

Doug Lampert

2019-03-15, 01:59 PM

And my mistake on Stone Shape's level-- I have 5e on my brain, and didn't think to double-check it in the 3e rules.

Heh, I assumed you confused it with the Wiz/Sor level, but fifth doesn't have separate levels for the same spell in different classes, so it comes to the same thing. Easy mistake to make.

MReav

2019-03-16, 09:58 AM

I wonder if Shojo's Wizard could be a Wayfarer Guide. The class allows the caster to teleport more people than a standard caster would at an equivalent level. Teleporting 6 other people would normally require a casting level of 18, while a Wayfarer Guide could conceivably do so at a minimum level 10 (9 caster levels + 3 for a class special ability that allows a WG to teleport an extra small/medium sized character for every WG level he would have).

https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/wayfarerguide.shtml

Peelee

2019-03-16, 11:28 AM

And, in this theory, is Tsukiko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html) also a Wayfarer Guide?

New theory: they both went to the same wizarding school that specialized in producing Wayfarer Guides. Of course, since that was the only wizard Shojo had who could teleport the Order, I think the school had a kind of Santa with Muscles thing going on, but that's another story. This post will be preserved for all time, unfortunately.

Aquillion

2019-03-16, 12:12 PM

And, in this theory, is Tsukiko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html) also a Wayfarer Guide?Hrm. I know you're only half-serious, but overthinking things like that is the point of this thread, so...

She theoretically has the room in her build for the two levels of Wayfarer Guide she needs to accomplish that, although stopping Mystic Theurge progression for that would be a bizarre choice. And she'd need +1 CL or to be one level higher than our assumptions, because level 2 Wayfarer Guide gives up a caster level (why would anyone ever take that level, seriously.)

I'm honestly more inclined to assume that she has a magic item or feat that lets her teleport additional undead (or affect additional undead with her spells in general), since that fits her character.

I'm surprised there's no metamagic feat that lets you eg. add an additional target to a spell with three or more targets.

Rogar Demonblud

2019-03-16, 02:06 PM

This being D20, there is, just in some sourcebook you've never heard of.

Honestly, I think it might be harder to find the rule you want in D20 than in Palladium (not something I ever thought possible).

understatement

2019-03-18, 01:14 PM

The Exarch's definitely ordering the worm around, right? Does this give him a lower bound on level?

Resileaf

2019-03-18, 01:18 PM

As was mentionned, him ordering the worm around does not necessarily mean anything because that worm is their ally and would be listening to him either way.

Peelee

2019-03-18, 01:19 PM

The Exarch's definitely ordering the worm around, right? Does this give him a lower bound on level?

Sure! Cleric 1.

I wonder how long I can keep this gag running...

Jasdoif

2019-03-18, 01:21 PM

As was mentionned, him ordering the worm around does not necessarily mean anything because that worm is their ally and would be listening to him either way.Even if it did mean he was controlling the nightcrawler through the spell, it'd be driven by the scroll's caster level rather than his own.

Resileaf

2019-03-18, 01:21 PM

Sure! Cleric 1.

I wonder how long I can keep this gag running...

Well he did cast Invisibility purge, which is a lvl 3 spell.

Meaning he's officially at least Cleric 5.

Peelee

2019-03-18, 01:22 PM

Well he did cast Invisibility purge, which is a lvl 3 spell.

Meaning he's officially at least Cleric 5.

Damn, I was so intent on the question itself I missed that. I am shamed.

Aquillion

2019-03-18, 01:25 PM

Sure! Cleric 1.Not true!

If that was all we had to go on, he could also be an Expert with a bunch of UMD ranks.

Peelee

2019-03-18, 01:35 PM

Not true!

If that was all we had to go on, he could also be an Expert with a bunch of UMD ranks.

Nah, Experts can't cast spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html). The trick is he left it simply at "high level" spells, which is subjective. Those sneaky Exarch tricks!

Aquillion

2019-03-18, 01:44 PM

Nah, Experts can't cast spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html). The trick is he left it simply at "high level" spells, which is subjective. Those sneaky Exarch tricks!Well, let's say that, hypothetically, an expert with a bunch of UMD ranks somehow convinced people he was a high-level cleric and got an invitation to the Godsmoot. He's hardly going to admit it, right? And "oh oops I cast all my spells already today, what a shame" seems like a pretty good way to duck the issue.

Peelee

2019-03-18, 01:47 PM

Aquillion

2019-03-18, 01:49 PM

An alternate identity would certainly be impressive to pull off while in the Circle of Truth (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0994.html).
All that he says is that he's the Exarch of the Creed of Stone! That's a formal position. Nothing says an Expert with a lot of UMD can't finagle his way into it.

hamishspence

2019-03-18, 01:53 PM

All that he says is that he's the Exarch of the Creed of Stone! That's a formal position. Nothing says an Expert with a lot of UMD can't finagle his way into it.

We do have Word of Giant, at least:

Gontor is a non-theistic cleric because I needed him to be a non-theistic cleric for the plot to unfold correctly.

Non-theistic clerics get their spells from a wide distributed network of beings with similar philosophies who can act as catalysts for the cleric—but because these are not centralized, none of them can exercise "veto power" over the cleric, nor is the cleric required to acknowledge their dominance (or even their existence). In Gontor's case, it may be that a powerful Earth Elemental is granting him his spells, but it could be a different one each day, or even some spells from one and some from another. If any of those elementals decide they don't like what he's doing with his magic, he just gets his spells from someone else that day. He may even be entirely oblivious to which elemental provides his spells at any point, and therefore is under no obligation to any of them. Unfortunately, that also means that no single elemental is going to be invested enough in Gontor to care what happens to him.

As I see it, Gontor would have thought that he could convey a consensus opinion from the lesser elemental beings that granted him spells. Sort of like a moot within a moot. He would argue that as quasi-divine beings, they deserve a say in what is decided. However, it is also possible that he has never actually been allowed to witness the Godsmoot and therefore his understanding of it is less than perfect.

Jasdoif

2019-03-18, 01:54 PM

Well, let's say that, hypothetically, an expert with a bunch of UMD ranks somehow convinced people he was a high-level cleric and got an invitation to the Godsmoot. He's hardly going to admit it, right? And "oh oops I cast all my spells already today, what a shame" seems like a pretty good way to duck the issue.And now we know why casting summon proxy constitutes proof of identity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html)!

Also, invisibility purge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityPurge.htm) has a 5-foot-per-caster-level radius centered on the caster; so if we somehow knew how far away Haley/Vaarsuvius/Blackwing are, we could determine the minimum caster level of the Exarch (or possibly of the invisible magic item the Exarch is UMD-ing, I suppose).

Grey_Wolf_c

2019-03-18, 02:29 PM

Also, invisibility purge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityPurge.htm) has a 5-foot-per-caster-level radius centered on the caster; so if we somehow knew how far away Haley/Vaarsuvius/Blackwing are, we could determine the minimum caster level of the Exarch (or possibly of the invisible magic item the Exarch is UMD-ing, I suppose).

They seem more than 100 feet away to me. I conclude that the Exexarch is epic.
No, no I don't.
Grey Wolf

Peelee

2019-03-18, 02:35 PM

They seem more than 100 feet away to me. I conclude that the Exexarch is epic.

Grey Wolf

If only he'd said Widened Invisibility Purge, we'd have a pretty reasonable estimate.

Jasdoif

2019-03-18, 02:36 PM

If only he'd said Widened Invisibility Purge, we'd have a pretty reasonable estimate.Or Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder.

understatement

2019-03-18, 03:21 PM

Sure! Cleric 1.

Not again!

Sigh.

Aquillion

2019-03-18, 08:19 PM

Or Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder.

Minor Greater Dwarven Evil Vampire Divine Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder (Earth Domain)
Diviniation (Meta)
Level: Cleric 6

This spell functions like Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder, except that to cast it, you must have exactly 14 cleric levels, no more and no less; you must have the Earth domain; you must be evil; and you must be a dwarven vampire.

As with all versions of Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder, these requirements may be bypassed if the caster is a shapeshifted Chimera with class levels or their significant other, whether they are alive or dead.

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-18, 08:34 PM

MesiDoomstalker

2019-03-19, 10:29 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to determine the range the worm can see invisible creatures and take that as the maximum distance they were 'spotted'?

Peelee

2019-03-19, 10:32 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to determine the range the worm can see invisible creatures and take that as the maximum distance they were 'spotted'?

Sure !

See Invisibility

You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision

hamishspence

2019-03-19, 10:34 AM

It doesn't have a range cap - if you can see the creature, you can see the invisible creature at the same distance.

MesiDoomstalker

2019-03-19, 10:35 AM

Sure !

Ah, I thought it had Blindsight or True Seeing rather than innate ability to ignore invisibility specifically.

knag

2019-03-19, 11:32 AM

If we can calculate the height of the dwarves in #1155 (which can be derived from Exarch*'s height, which can be derived from Durkon*'s height when they met) then we could estimate the width of the bridge (a major point of reference in the larger cave) and then use #1159 to see how far away the far door is by scaling the width of the bridge (which appears to be the same throughout) between the close end of it and the far end of it.

My personal estimate is "roughly 50-60 feet" from one end of the bridge to the other and Haley and V are a bit into the room already so I'd cut off another 10-15 feet, putting him at ~8th level. I'm sure we'll get more from him later that'll make it far more definitive.

Not to mention the use of the Gate Scroll- which, I'm not the most familiar with 3.5- would his confident use of it without expectation of failing that DC 18 CL check (since I highly doubt he's 17th level, else he'd just prepare Gate himself and have crushed the order by himself) put him decently high level? Not hard evidence of course, but I'd say this also puts him in the same sort of range as my estimate, if not slightly higher.

Could we not directly compare the heights of Haley/V and Gontor. Gontor is exactly the same height as Durkon* (see #1111). Durkon is about 2/3 the height of Haley. In the penultimate image of #1159, Haley is about 30 pixels tall. Half of Gontor is about 110 pixels. So Gontor is 220 pixels tall. If Haley were standing next to him, she would be 220 * 3/2 = 330 pixels. So Haley is 330/30 = 11 times smaller than if she were in the foreground. An average dwarf is 52 inches tall, so each pixel is 4.23 inches. If we assume the "camera" is 52" from Gontor (for simplicity) then 52/52 * 3/2 = x/(30*4.23), where x is the distance to Haley. So Haley and V are about 16 feet away, making Gontor at least 3rd level, though of course he'd have to be 5th to cast the spell. Let's say Durkon is 48 inches tall. Then each pixel is 0.218 inches. So Haley appears to be 30 * 0.218 = 6.5 inches in this panel. Let's say Haley is 70 inches tall. Then y/6.5 = x / 70, where y is the distance from the viewer to Gontor, and x is the distance from the viewer to Haley. If we assume the viewer is about 5 feet from Gontor, then x = 70 * 60/6.5 = 54 feet, making Gontor at least 11th level.

D.One

2019-03-19, 02:18 PM

Could we not directly compare the heights of Haley/V and Gontor. Gontor is exactly the same height as Durkon* (see #1111). Durkon is about 2/3 the height of Haley. In the penultimate image of #1159, Haley is about 30 pixels tall. Half of Gontor is about 110 pixels. So Gontor is 220 pixels tall. If Haley were standing next to him, she would be 220 * 3/2 = 330 pixels. So Haley is 330/30 = 11 times smaller than if she were in the foreground. An average dwarf is 52 inches tall, so each pixel is 4.23 inches. If we assume the "camera" is 52" from Gontor (for simplicity) then 52/52 * 3/2 = x/(30*4.23), where x is the distance to Haley. So Haley and V are about 16 feet away, making Gontor at least 3rd level, though of course he'd have to be 5th to cast the spell. Let's say Durkon is 48 inches tall. Then each pixel is 0.218 inches. So Haley appears to be 30 * 0.218 = 6.5 inches in this panel. Let's say Haley is 70 inches tall. Then y/6.5 = x / 70, where y is the distance from the viewer to Gontor, and x is the distance from the viewer to Haley. If we assume the viewer is about 5 feet from Gontor, then x = 70 * 60/6.5 = 54 feet, making Gontor at least 11th level.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is some serious mathmagic.

V approves that. :smallbiggrin: (And I approve it too, for what counts)

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-19, 03:28 PM

knag

2019-03-19, 06:18 PM

To find Haley's (and exarch*'s) exact height you can take Belkar's height (which is known, given he's a halfling, all ~3' tall in the SRD) in a panel they're standing next to each other in the same linear plane and do the same with pixel heights. in the new art, 1030 panel 5 is a good example.

Ok, I guess I started this, I have to finish it.

Going from #956, panel 7, which has all three:
Belkar: 83 px => 36/83 = 0.434 in/px
Haley: 123 px => 123 px * 0.434 in/px = 53.3 in
Durkon: 101 px => 101 px * 0.434 in/px = 43 in

Checking with #953, panel 6:
Belkar: 130 px => 36/130 = 0.27 in/px
Durkon: 155 px => 155 px * 0.27 in/px = 43 in

Checking with #1030, panel 5:
Belkar: 88 px => 36/88 = 0.41 in/px
Haley: 134 px => 134 px * 0.41 in/p = 55 in

So given the assumption that Belkar is canonically 3 ft tall, we are left with the result that Durkon is only 3' 7", short but within range for a dwarf, and that Haley is a surprisingly short human woman at 4' 7" (giving her the best measurement). That's short, but still within range for the random height generation in the SRD. We'll leave aside that this means that Elan and Roy (and indeed most humans) are quite short. Our assumption about Belkar is probably not great, but we'll go with it for now.

Plugging this result into my earlier analysis with regard to #1159, panel 10, and refining that measurement we find that Haley is 28 px and 0.5 * Gontor = 90 px. With Gontor's height pegged to Durkon's, that's 43/180 = .24 in/px. Haley thus appears to be 6.7 in. Finally, x = 55 * 60/6.7 = 493 in, or 41 ft from the viewer to Haley. With 5 feet to Gontor, that's only 36 feet from Gontor to Haley, putting Gontor's minimum level at a modest level 8.

If instead we allow Belkar the maximum halfling height of 40 in, the resulting heights for Durkon and Haley are 48 and 60 in. respectively. The distance from Gontor to Haley is thus just over 40 feet and the result is unchanged. So we see that this analysis is fairly insensitive to the initial assumption of Belkar's height, relying instead on the relative heights between the characters. However, the result is more sensitive to changes in the assumed distance between the observer and Gontor. An error of over 1 Gontor cleric level / ft accrues for faults in this assumption.

Q.E.D.

Chronos

2019-03-19, 06:42 PM

Yeah, the big problem with using either the heights of characters or the perspective of the bridge (which are both fundamentally the same method) is that either depends on the vantage point location, which we have no good information on.

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-19, 06:54 PM

There's also that with the OOTS art style it'd be hard to draw Halflings and Gnomes with the same amount of emoting as the humans and other medium sized humanoids, they'd have to be drawn as if they're much taller or the medium size-ers have to be drawn much shorter. You'd have to sacrifice the amount of space you can draw faces on those heads in order to draw their height more accurately to SRD.

Anyway hopefully we get some actual high level spellcasting from Gontor*. Then we won't have to rely on probably-not-accurate perspective measurements.

But to me 8th level seems pretty close to what it'll be.

Ephemera

2019-03-20, 08:10 AM

Ok, I guess I started this, I have to finish it.

In spite of the noted difficulties with drawing conclusions, I am so happy that someone did this. I was thinking of suggesting a method based on this but I was too lazy to even suggest it, let alone do it. So I salute you, knag, true knight of geekery.

D.One

2019-03-20, 09:04 AM

In spite of the noted difficulties with drawing conclusions, I am so happy that someone did this. I was thinking of suggesting a method based on this but I was too lazy to even suggest it, let alone do it. So I salute you, knag, true knight of geekery.

Yeah, I salute you too.

In a Tolkienesque moment, I'd say "you have my sword", but I don't really work with a sword, so I'll go with "You have my Excel Spreadsheet."

knag

2019-03-20, 09:35 AM

Quartz

2019-03-22, 05:03 PM

The last panel of #1159 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1159.html) indicates that V thinks Haley is the same level as V. If they were known to be different levels, V, being the arch-pedant, would have said, "... adventurers of our levels."

Since one or both might have levelled up after defeating Durkula this doesn't actually tell us if they are 16th or 17th level, but we do know that V is at least 16th level.

Dungeon-noob

2019-03-22, 05:20 PM

zimmerwald1915

2019-03-22, 05:23 PM

I'm not that sure. The statement is more about tiers ofplay then exact levels, or at worst can be as easily be about that. And we already know they're in the same tier.
We actually knew that Haley was at least level 16 already. She was level 15 in Greysky City, and leveled up in Tinkertown.

Quartz

2019-03-23, 03:30 AM

I'm not that sure. The statement is more about tiers ofplay then exact levels, or at worst can be as easily be about that.

That is inconsistent with V's known pedantry

Quartz

2019-03-23, 03:33 AM

We actually knew that Haley was at least level 16 already. She was level 15 in Greysky City, and leveled up in Tinkertown.

I wonder if this could be a hint that both are now - after the vampire fight - level 17? I ran the numbers for the fight with the giants and Haley seemed to be level 17 there.

danielxcutter

2019-03-24, 08:42 AM

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-24, 09:14 AM

Hey, could Zz'dtri have a Daazix's Vest? That boosts preexisting SR by a whopping +5; combined with Boost Spell Resistance would up it to a ridiculous 33, which is even higher than the friggin' Nightcrawler that Gonetor just summoned!

It's from the DMGII, if you're curious. Heck, the original creator was a male drow as well!

They have 28+ already, which would include 33. It isn't required that they have this vest to have the fight with V go the exact same way, and usually it would seem the people who add things only do it when they have their items revealed in-comic, which Z did not do with some vest before the vampire neck snap. Sooooo, yeah. It's possible but people don't just add items because they can if they don't change anything and haven't been confirmed.

zimmerwald1915

2019-03-24, 09:16 AM

They have 28+ already, which would include 33. It isn't required that they have this vest to have the fight with V go the exact same way, and usually it would seem the people who add things only do it when they have their items revealed in-comic, which Z did not do with some vest before the vampire neck snap. Sooooo, yeah. It's possible but people don't just add items because they can if they don't change anything and haven't been confirmed.
Zz'dtri did mention that he had boosted his SR with both "feats" and "stuff." There is a magic item in the mix.

danielxcutter

2019-03-24, 09:36 AM

Zz'dtri did mention that he had boosted his SR with both "feats" and "stuff." There is a magic item in the mix.

Well, that sentence might be just generally ambiguous, since he'd have no reason to give a detailed explanation of his build to his archenemy and he doesn't speak enough to do that either. "Stuff" doesn't have to just mean items, I guess.

Yes, I know I'm shooting myself in the foot, but are there any other feats that boost SR?

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-24, 09:52 AM

Zz'dtri did mention that he had boosted his SR with both "feats" and "stuff." There is a magic item in the mix.

I'm not arguing that he doesn't have an item at all, I'm saying we don't know if it's this vest. The last FAQ in the list answers why we aren't going to change "and an item" to "magic vest"

Well, that sentence might be just generally ambiguous, since he'd have no reason to give a detailed explanation of his build to his archenemy and he doesn't speak enough to do that either. "Stuff" doesn't have to just mean items, I guess.

Yes, I know I'm shooting myself in the foot, but are there any other feats that boost SR?

I don't know. But obviously enough to get to 28+ spell resistance already, at the very least.

danielxcutter

2019-03-24, 10:06 AM

I'm not arguing that he doesn't have an item at all, I'm saying we don't know if it's this vest. The last FAQ in the list answers why we aren't going to change "and an item" to "magic vest"

Well, that's the most likely option, at least IMO. The original DMGII fluff says it was the creation of a male drow wizard, so I wouldn't be exactly surprised to see it on him, in a non-typical form at the very least. Especially since it says the titular Daazix did weather the spells of the drow clerics, but not their maces - which is quite similar with what happened to Z. Plus, 25k gp is affordable even with NPC WBL at the levels they are, so it's not a far shot.

I don't know. But obviously enough to get to 28+ spell resistance already, at the very least.

He gets SR 28 from being a drow + Boost Spell Resistance, but he did say "feats".

Also, I just found there's a feat called Psychic Refusal, which adds +4 more against mind-affecting spells. Maybe that too? After all, it's from Drow of the Underdark - yet another drow-fluffed option.

Sniccups

2019-03-25, 01:06 PM

What is meant by “nova” in #935 (posting from mobile, so I can’t link it) and does this determine any of Laurin’s stats?

Rogar Demonblud

2019-03-25, 01:15 PM

Nova (more accurately, going nova) just means using everything as fast as possible, rather than holding something back for possible later fights. It's a style of resource management in the game, one generally favored by NPCs since the DM knows they'll only be around for the one fight.

Sniccups

2019-03-25, 02:08 PM

heavyfuel

2019-03-25, 03:21 PM

:durkon: Durkon Allotrope Thundershield
Lawful Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0844.html), Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html) male Cleric of Thor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html) 12 (based on spells cast in a day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0875.html), and level reduction from being raised).

Correct me if I'm missing something (and I probably am), but Vampire Durkon could cast Symbol of Death, an 8th level spell, so that means he was previously a 15th+ level character. Now, he was raised twice, so his new level is at least 13, not 12 as this thread indicates

CriticalFailure

2019-03-30, 04:34 PM

Aeson

2019-03-30, 05:38 PM

If I may be permitted to ask a dumb question about D&D3.5e, is there anything similar to archetypes or other alternate class options? I was wondering if there was some way O-Chul could be a paladin variant that uses WIS rather than CHA for some key features, but I'm not aware of anything in D&D that would allow for this.
There are some options for alternative class features, yes. I don't know of any off the top of my head that would allow a Paladin to substitute WIS for CHA, but it also wouldn't particularly surprise me if there was such an alternative class feature/variant class or a feat that allowed a Paladin to do so somewhere.

CriticalFailure

2019-03-30, 06:27 PM

Jasdoif

2019-03-30, 06:28 PM

There are some options for alternative class features, yes. I don't know of any off the top of my head that would allow a Paladin to substitute WIS for CHA, but it also wouldn't particularly surprise me if there was such an alternative class feature/variant class or a feat that allowed a Paladin to do so somewhere.If "somewhere" includes Dragon magazine, the feat is called Serenity.

CriticalFailure

2019-03-31, 02:59 PM

Is there any indication of Redcloak’s int? He generally comes across as having more than the average cleric/person but I can’t think of much specific.

understatement

2019-03-31, 03:23 PM

Purely from the comic, I would guess he'd be around Roy or Haley's level.

It also says Xykon has ~15, so that should provide some sort of base reference. I feel like it's been concretely mentioned somewhere that RC's smarter/tactically knows more than his boss, but I can't pinpoint. (so just ignore it, I suppose)

CriticalFailure

2019-03-31, 04:14 PM

Cylinder should get iirc +3 pts for age and +2 for lich, so ~15 if he started at 10,but he was a dumbass when he was young so I wouldn’t be surprised if he started life with a negative int modifier. It’s hard to compare because X and RC have very different approaches, with RC being extremely methodical and Xykon not really caring. Cylinder still has the moron’s just blast away approach as his default even though he’s gained a decent amount of intelligence. Overall I think Redcloak has higher int than Xykon, but not by a huge margin.

I would guess people have different takes based on their relationship, my interpretation is that when it comes to manipulating each other Xykon is smart enough to come up with a decent plan but his strongest point is using his extremely high charisma to emotionally manipulate Redcloak and keep him where he wants him in that sense. Whereas Redcloak’s strength is putting his higher int/wis scores into long term planning.

understatement

2019-03-31, 04:38 PM

Sooo...15+, then?

But yeah, I definitely get the "emotionally manipulative" sht-eating vibe from Xykon. He literally traps souls out of spite.

In honesty, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) might be a passable metric -- it's genuinely almost impossible to imagine X thinking three steps ahead. But I don't know if the intelligence is because of their Lawful or Chaotic alignments or just raw scores.

CriticalFailure

2019-03-31, 04:50 PM

I think that both shows RC is a pretty smart strategist and that Xykon doesn’t really care about strategy to start with. I can imagine Xykon being as low as 13 based on his pre-lichification behavior (spoiler alert I guess younger Xykon’s evil plans were easily foiled, and teen Xykon failed math 3 times). At least 14 for RC seems like a reasonable guess especially if that’s Roy’s lower limit (I generally get the impression Redcloak is at least as smart as Roy if not more so).

Redcloak seems to use a lot of knowledge skills for a cleric, but that could just be him prioritizing those things. I don’t think we’ve seen it but I’d be shocked if he didn’t have a very high knowledge (religion) given that religion is very interesting and important to him and he’s also a nerd.

MReav

2019-03-31, 07:00 PM

Oh, I assumed it was the name of a particular psionic power.

No, but I think in 3.5 DND it was a term more used for psionicists due to their ability to effectively cast more high-level powers than their arcane counterparts at the cost of not having anything in reserve. A level 20 wizard, no accounting for other stuff like intelligence boosts, "only" got 4 level 9 spells, while a similar calculated level 20 psionicist could effectively cast the equivalent of 17-20, depending how much you boosted the power. The Psionicist suffered from the fact that they couldn't really cast anything else while the wizard would still have 32 non-level 9 spells, and their spells auto-scaled their damage unlike the psionicist's powers.

Gluteus_Maximus

2019-03-31, 08:52 PM

Why is 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) credited for Xykon's knowing of the Mass Hold Person spell when 11 comics earlier 659 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html) he casts the spell?

Rogar Demonblud

2019-03-31, 10:07 PM

Awesome, thanks! I got the impression that there are a fair number of alternate archetypes or archetypesque options in 3.5e but they often aren't available in the SRD online? I just kind of assumed there might be something like that O-Chul has.

Well, there is the whole Book of 9 Swords, which was a serious attempt to power up melee types so they weren't completely out-paced by full casters. Otherwise, you're looking at the PHB2 or DMG2 for the basics, or the Rules Compendium for a lot of stuff being kind of collated together. And there is a LOT of stuff, because 3X really had a problem with splatbloat.