What kind of backstory could justify being a Gestalt Wizard-Psion-Cloistered Cleric?

[MatrixStone93]

I normally come up with backstories on my own, but for a high-power campaign I'm about to do with some friends, I'd like my character to be a Gestalt Wizard-Psion-Cloistered Cleric of... something. My usual Cleric domain picks are ones I pick when I'm going pure Cloistered Cleric, so I'm not sure if I should change them to something else or not.

Don't worry about power balance or the DM saying "No, that's too strong". This group allows OP things as long as their players play along and pretend their characters can't break the entire campaign with a pinky finger.

[zlefin]

start with a priest-minded basis:
a calling from their god (a god of magic/knowledge):
they are instructed (or divinely inspired) to learn about all kinds of magic/powers and what happens when you mix them.

[Uncle Pine]

The three classes (especially wizard and cloistered cleric) are closer enough in fluff that they can all be potentially played as your average "knowledge seeker person". For good or evil, any deity with the Knowledge domain could fit perfectly well, be it Boccob, Wee Jas, Oghma, or something as esoteric as Ilsensine. What race is the character going to be? This can give you many ideas.

I'll echo the suggestion of a divine servant of a god of Knowledge, with the addition of either picking a deity with psionic followers and/or having your character being raised by a psionic race of your choice.

[daremetoidareyo]

A martial artist from a remote temple seeking to become the greatest fighting machine ever? A Knowledge is literally power type dude.

[Psyren]

I would go with Archivist here instead of Cloistered Cleric. You'll get triple-Int synergy and access to even more divine spells (i.e. non-cleric ones like Glibness). Your bonus archivist spells are based on Wis, but as a tristalt, you should have more spells per day than you'll ever know what to do with even at low levels.

The backstory writes itself - this guy would be a polymath so extreme that his mind hacked reality three different ways, cracking the Unified Theory that underlies arcane magic, divine magic, and even psionics. Bonus points because none of your divine spells would need to come from a deity or even an ideal, just raw understanding of the cosmos. Dread Secret also fits perfectly here, you can debuff enemies just by knowing everything about them.

[Troacctid]

Choose synad as your race. They literally have three minds, so it's perfect. The three minds are the overmind, the collective, and the oracle, and you can have each of them represent a different class.

[MatrixStone93]

I would go with Archivist here instead of Cloistered Cleric. You'll get triple-Int synergy and access to even more divine spells (i.e. non-cleric ones like Glibness). Your bonus archivist spells are based on Wis, but as a tristalt, you should have more spells per day than you'll ever know what to do with even at low levels.

The backstory writes itself - this guy would be a polymath so extreme that his mind hacked reality three different ways, cracking the Unified Theory that underlies arcane magic, divine magic, and even psionics. Bonus points because none of your divine spells would need to come from a deity or even an ideal, just raw understanding of the cosmos. Dread Secret also fits perfectly here, you can debuff enemies just by knowing everything about them.

Archivist? I've never played one of those before. How do they work?

[Psyren]

Archivist? I've never played one of those before. How do they work?

They're like a wizard, except divine spells instead of arcane ones. Meaning that you find divine scrolls and scribe them into your spellbook prayerbook, you get some free cleric spells just by leveling up, and you can cast 9th-level spells.

The three big things to keep in mind with them are (a) they use Int for highest spell known and spell DCs instead of Wisdom, (b) they have actual class features aside from their spellcasting (the most powerful of which is called "Dread Secret" at level 11), and (c) they can actually learn divine spells from any source. This means it's not just Cleric scrolls they can learn, but also druid, ranger and paladin spells as well. But it really gets interesting when you realize any divine source is acceptable, so that gives them access to things like domain spells, adept spells, divine bard spells, and many more throughout the rest of D&D. Cleric alone would put them at T1, but combining druid and everyone else into the mix gives them a lot of power at all levels, provided your GM makes the scrolls available or you have a party member (ideally a warlock) who can craft them all.

They were released online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?page=3&x=dnd%2Fex%2F20051007a) as a free preview for the Heroes of Horror book where they debuted, so you can read all the class features yourself if you like. There's also a handbook (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=3545.0) over on BG.

[Telonius]

The concept sounds a bit like Doctor Strange. :smallbiggrin:

[MatrixStone93]

Alright. As payment for helping me I will tell you how this dnd game goes.

One last question: Would this character get any use out of the Leadership feat?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psionics is, essentially, an innate racial ability, much like sorcery. Most races can't tap into this ability very easily, but with some major mental effort (or a lot of natural talent), nearly anyone can.

Just say that you have a lot of innate psionic ability that just comes naturally. From there, it's the same as anyone who decides to dive into mystic theurge.


Choose synad as your race. They literally have three minds, so it's perfect. The three minds are the overmind, the collective, and the oracle, and you can have each of them represent a different class.Except synads suck. Most of what they have is a pretty useless 1/day ability (the rest are 1/day +2s to a few things). Elan are vastly superior.

[Troacctid]

Except synads suck. Most of what they have is a pretty useless 1/day ability (the rest are 1/day +2s to a few things). Elans are vastly superior.
The "1/day quicken any purely mental action" ability is actually quite good, and you don't have the Charisma penalty, which could matter if you care about turning.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The "1/day quicken any purely mental action" ability is actually quite good, and you don't have the Charisma penalty, which could matter if you care about turning.Except you can't use any action that round for manifesting a power, which massively undercuts its utility, especially since you can only use it for a swift action. And it's only 1/day, which always sucks.

You basically have to build around it to make it useful, but at 1/day, building around it is just dumb.

[Troacctid]

OP's character is a tri-caster gestalt. Preeetty sure they're gonna have stuff to do with their actions besides manifesting powers.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

OP's character is a tri-caster gestalt. Preeetty sure they're gonna have stuff to do with their actions besides manifesting powers.Sure, but the list of actions you can perform (1/day, yuck!) is pretty small. I'd rather be a tough-as-nails elan, instead. Or a warforged, with lots of immunities and fun stuff to be done with being a construct that can enhance his own body. Both are immortal, so you'd have plenty of time to enjoy higher levels, even without magic shenanigans to find immortality another way.

Curious. A thought occurs. If the OP's character used spell points and had the Magic mantle, would he be able to toss all his spell points into his power point pool as if they were power points? That'd be really, really nice.

[Troacctid]

Sure, but the list of actions you can perform (1/day, yuck!) is pretty small.
You can use it to perform any purely mental action. That includes all psionic powers, for example.


Curious. A thought occurs. If the OP's character used spell points and had the Magic mantle, would he be able to toss all his spell points into his power point pool as if they were power points? That'd be really, really nice.
Definitely not.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can use it to perform any purely mental action. That includes all psionic powers, for example.Not many are swift actions, though. Unless you take Quicken and waste a ton of power points when you could just abuse Linked/Twinned synchronicity, instead.


Definitely not.Psionics is magic and vice versa, according to the Magic mantle. No difference whatsoever, well above and beyond regular transparency. That means power points are spell points, and vice versa. The OP's DM is free to rule that way, if he wants.

[Troacctid]

Not many are swift actions, though. Unless you take Quicken and waste a ton of power points when you could just abuse Linked/Twinned synchronicity, instead.
It works for any purely mental action, regardless of its normal action type.

EDIT: For evidence, it cites as examples several different mental actions that are not normally swift actions.


Psionics is magic and vice versa, according to the Magic mantle. No difference whatsoever, well above and beyond regular transparency. That means power points are spell points, and vice versa. The OP's DM is free to rule that way, if he wants.
Why are you assuming "magic" means "spells"? It's well-established that there are different forms of magic. Arcane magic, divine magic, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities...they're all magic, and they all work differently. What is leading you to believe that psionics is equivalent to spellcasting rather than, say, truenaming?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It works for any purely mental action, regardless of its normal action type.

EDIT: For evidence, it cites as examples several different mental actions that are not normally swift actions.It's somewhat less objectionable if you could, say, cast an Eschewed Materials simulacrum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm) (normal casting time: 12 hours) as a swift action.

Now we just need to find ways to use their abilities more than 1/day each. The above is slightly better, but not enough to give away all the benefits of being elan or warforged.


Why are you assuming "magic" means "spells"? It's well-established that there are different forms of magic. Arcane magic, divine magic, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities...they're all magic, and they all work differently. What is leading you to believe that psionics is equivalent to spellcasting rather than, say, truenaming?Psionics is magic, and magic is psionics. The mantle doesn't specify, so it's a generic "magic." Psionics would be considered the same as truenaming as it would be considered spellcasting.

Power points are the psionic equivalent of spell points -- pretty much an exact conversion, in fact. It's not a stretch for a DM to say that they cross-pollinate, as it were.

[Troacctid]

It's somewhat less objectionable if you could, say, cast an Eschewed Materials simulacrum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm) (normal casting time: 12 hours) as a swift action.
Good thought, but sadly, casting spells with longer casting times requires multiple actions.

Casting a spell that has a casting time longer than 1 minute doesn’t usually happen in combat. If it does, every round of casting requires a full-round action, and all the actions required to cast the spell must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell fails.
So simulacrum requires 7,200 full-round actions. You could quicken one of them, but not the other 7,199.


Now we just need to find ways to use their abilities more than 1/day each. The above is slightly better, but not enough to give away all the benefits of being elan or warforged.
I still think it's a bad idea to have both a Wisdom penalty and a natural arcane spell failure chance on a Wizard/Cleric.


Psionics is magic, and magic is psionics. The mantle doesn't specify, so it's a generic "magic." Psionics would be considered the same as truenaming as it would be considered spellcasting.

Power points are the psionic equivalent of spell points -- pretty much an exact conversion, in fact. It's not a stretch for a DM to say that they cross-pollinate, as it were.
But magic is magic too. If that's how it works, then why aren't spells the same as utterances? Why aren't spell-like abilities the same as supernatural abilities? Why aren't infusions the same as invocations?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Good thought, but sadly, casting spells with longer casting times requires multiple actions.

So simulacrum requires 7,200 full-round actions. You could quicken one of them, but not the other 7,199.Fair enough. Too bad. That almost made synad worth it. At least, 1/day. The other 14,399 rounds in a day, no. Not worth it at all.


I still think it's a bad idea to have both a Wisdom penalty and a natural arcane spell failure chance on a Wizard/Cleric.There's a reason I like putting the dragonborn template on my warforged. It gets rid of that body armor without spending a feat on it, AND it gives you several additional abilities. Otherwise, all you lose is the slam attack, two points of Dex, and a few gp. And even with the Wis penalty, warforged are totally worth it. They're fantastic. Especially dragonborn.

Elan are similarly worthwhile. Their abilities are crazy-good for a full-manifester. They're right up there with humans, if not a bit better.


But magic is magic too. If that's how it works, then why aren't spells the same as utterances? Why aren't spell-like abilities the same as supernatural abilities? Why aren't infusions the same as invocations?Magic is magic, but not all magic is like all other magic. SUs and SLAs are both magic, but they function somewhat differently. Psionics (especially class-based manifesting) is simply a slightly altered form of magic, close enough to spellcasting to be extremely easy to cross over. There are differences, of course, such as the specifics on how metamagic and metapsionics work, as well as the existence of the [psionic] subtype and psionic focus. Psionics is like the third spoke on the Arcane/Divine/Psionics wheel. All of them are magic, but they're slightly different branches of magic. The specific type determines which PrCs you can use, and non-[psionic] creatures can't take [psionic] feats, even with the Magic mantle in effect. They're close enough for a lot of purposes, but not identical. But spell points don't care about arcane or divine, and power points all group together regardless of where they come from.

There are differences that shape how they're used, but that doesn't mean they're not all magic.

And they're close enough that a DM is entirely reasonable for allowing spell points and power points to pool together, should he choose to allow it.

[noob]

You were a wizard that did find faith and then trapped yourself in a small cage for meditating then you got stuck in the cage because you forgot the key then you prayed your god to rescue you and then roughly 20 year later of endless prayers and meditation and reading your spellbook in the morning to create food for staying alive and searching a way to escape your mental powers awakened and you got out of the cage.

[Troacctid]

Magic is magic, but not all magic is like all other magic. SUs and SLAs are both magic, but they function somewhat differently. Psionics (especially class-based manifesting) is simply a slightly altered form of magic, close enough to spellcasting to be extremely easy to cross over. There are differences, of course, such as the specifics on how metamagic and metapsionics work, as well as the existence of the [psionic] subtype and psionic focus. Psionics is like the third spoke on the Arcane/Divine/Psionics wheel. All of them are magic, but they're slightly different branches of magic. The specific type determines which PrCs you can use, and non-[psionic] creatures can't take [psionic] feats, even with the Magic mantle in effect. They're close enough for a lot of purposes, but not identical. But spell points don't care about arcane or divine, and power points all group together regardless of where they come from.

There are differences that shape how they're used, but that doesn't mean they're not all magic.
Right. Multiple subsystems fall under the umbrella of "magic." The Magic Mantle moves psionics under that umbrella, but it's still its own subsystem—it doesn't subsume the rules of every other form of magic. So it's now sitting next to spellcasting and friends, rather than across from them.


And they're close enough that a DM is entirely reasonable for allowing spell points and power points to pool together, should he choose to allow it.
Spell points don't even stack between wizard and sorcerer—why would they stack between wizard and ardent?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Spell points don't even stack between wizard and sorcerer—why would they stack between wizard and ardent?Ease of bookkeeping?

[Troacctid]

Ease of bookkeeping?
The rules are quite explicit that spell points are tracked separately between classes. I mean, I don't know if that's a good design decision, but it's definitely unambiguous.

A character with nonstacking spellcasting ability from multiple classes (such as a cleric/wizard) has a separate pool of spell points for each spellcasting class. Such characters may only spend spell points on spells granted by that class. Bonus spell points from a high ability score apply to each pool separately, even if the same ability score is tied to more than one spellcasting class.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The rules are quite explicit that spell points are tracked separately between classes. I mean, I don't know if that's a good design decision, but it's definitely unambiguous.I'm not claiming it's standard RAW. I'm saying that if the DM decided that the Magic mantle was sufficient reason to consider spell points as power points for the purposes that power points are generally used for (which includes the collective power point pool), I wouldn't argue against it.

[MatrixStone93]

Update: The first session has finished, my current character's backstory and powers are a mystery but I'm playing his personality like a nerd who's trying to seem cool. I like those characters.

[noob]

Update: The first session has finished, my current character's backstory and powers are a mystery but I'm playing his personality like a nerd who's trying to seem cool. I like those characters.

so you are going to have a quantum backstory which fills as it is appropriate for the plot?