Assistance with building a PF Swashbuckler that is not a Swashbuckler

[Caedes]

Hello Playgrounders!

I am trying to build Swashbuckler type character without using the aforementioned class. The campaign this will be in is combat heavy with a fair amount of optimization on the DM side (Which is cool. We like it that way). And the SB class is a bit uhm... underwhelming.

My expertise is admittedly outside of the martial side of the game. And was looking for some direction to look into.

Things to note.

Pathfinder
Lvl 16
Action Economy is very important in his games
3rd party content on a "case by case" approval
Prefer to stay martial
The Swashbuckler / Master Swordswoman vibe is one of the core aspects I am trying to build around.

Thanks in advance for the advice and ideas.

Random C

[Hackulator]

Check out the Warlord class in Path of War, or possibly just a Magus with the right attitude, maybe the Eldritch Scion archetype of you want the charisma aspect of a classic fantasy swashbuckler.

[Gnaeus]

Mine ended Swashbuckler 3 (it’s a 3 level class)/daevic 2/enlightened Paladin (level equal to charisma bonus)/warlord (2 but really the rest until 20.

My purpose was a cha based fighter. So he had cha to AC, Saves, panache, ki pool, heals and a bunch of warlord stuff.

He died to a save he would have made on a 2.

[Elricaltovilla]

If I remember correctly, there is a magus archetype that can get swashbuckler deeds in place of magus arcana. 6th level spells tend to improve pretty much everything.

[Caedes]

Mine ended Swashbuckler 3 (it’s a 3 level class)/daevic 2/enlightened Paladin (level equal to charisma bonus)/warlord (2 but really the rest until 20.

My purpose was a cha based fighter. So he had cha to AC, Saves, panache, ki pool, heals and a bunch of warlord stuff.

He died to a save he would have made on a 2.

This is both sad. And very Swashbuckler fitting.

[Kurald Galain]

If I remember correctly, there is a magus archetype that can get swashbuckler deeds in place of magus arcana. 6th level spells tend to improve pretty much everything.

That would be Flamboyant Arcana; it's an arcana that gives you parry and riposte. And the Magus works very well as a master swordsman, and has a good action economy advantage in the form of spell combat. Here's a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus).

[TheFamilarRaven]

I mean, I'd say the Magus is the most optimal choice.... for a lot of builds, really. But the OP did specify that they would prefer to stay martial, which the Magus most assuredly isn't.

That being said, OP, if you could perhaps divulge more details on what your ability scores look like, and if you could quantify what a "swashbuckler/master swordsmen" means to you in relation to the game, it may help people get a firmer grasp of what you're looking for in your build.

[Gnaeus]

This is both sad. And very Swashbuckler fitting.

It was really sadder than that. It was a mistargeted confusion spell. That both I and the caster failed our saves to. And it was ruled that while Confused I couldn’t use any deeds or maneuvers that didn’t involve killing my target, the caster. So we murdered each other very slowly and ineptly. Finally the monsters we were originally fighting dropped me and my friend killed me where I lay dying.

[Caedes]

I mean, I'd say the Magus is the most optimal choice.... for a lot of builds, really. But the OP did specify that they would prefer to stay martial, which the Magus most assuredly isn't.

That being said, OP, if you could perhaps divulge more details on what your ability scores look like, and if you could quantify what a "swashbuckler/master swordsmen" means to you in relation to the game, it may help people get a firmer grasp of what you're looking for in your build.

Absolutely
Base Stats
Str: 10
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 16


So once upon a time. This character was a full-on Swash (Time period release of the class). And that game went on hiatus and during that hiatus, many changes were made to the mechanics of the class. (Looking at you signature deed and Oppurtune Riposte and Parry (referenced for the rest of the post as ORP)

Coming back to this game post errata changes the DM and I spoke and decided it would be best to rebuild her as mechanically she not as strong as she once was. Especially that in before she was a dancing swordfighting duelist bad ass. And now she has to really choose between being "Ok" at the sword fighting or saving her swift action for Charmed life to save her from like all the will saves that happen from lvl 15 forward.

So I want her to be able to stand toe to toe with whatever is in front of her. Do it with flair and expertise and still be a graceful badass. I know I can't and should not expect to be able to ORP her way through combat. But, I want her to still feel affective. The martial preference is admittedly a style of substance want. As, she was capeable before because of how crazy ORP was. And I know throwing magic into it can help make up for that. So a little bit of magic is not bad. Just, at her core she is master dancing swordfighting badass lady.

So I am trying to expand on that. :D

Thanks again!

[Wartex1]

If PoW stuff isn't allowed, try taking a look at some of the archetypes that crib stuff from the Swashbuckler.

Daring Champion for Cavalier is one of them iirc.

[Felyndiira]

Are you okay with a bit of spellcasting? If so, you may be able to replicate the flavor with Bard (Dawnflower Dervish).

Like swashbuckler, Dawnflower Dervish is a DEX fighter with a lot of enhanced damage flavored around movement, so you have the flavor of a graceful sword-fighting badass. You can replicate a lot of swashbuckler feats with spells, and play off your skills and enchantment spells for that swashbuckler's charm. For parry/riposte, you can duplicate the flavor with Amateur Swashbuckler. You can tackle on Cut Through the Air to deflect arrows and bullets, as well, with your stupendously high attack bonus.

A lot of swashbuckler tricks can be mimicked with bard spells. Encourage your allies with Good Hope, or leap onto the railing with Bladed Dash, or have worthy opponent surrender to you by reprimanding them via suggestion.

The scimitar is a perfect weapon for swashbucklers, and can be refluffed to be more like a saber if you want a different feel.

[Elricaltovilla]

Well, with stats like those you're not going to make a good magus, though Bard or Skald are both very strong options that can utilize a DEX/CHA build. Dervish of Dawn bards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish) A.K.A. Dawnflower Dervishes, can do a good job at it, substituting a scimitar for the usual rapier shenanigans.

[TheFamilarRaven]

How much magic is too much magic? Because with those stats a straight up magus with the eldritch scion archetype using the dervish dance feat ( or any X Grace feat) works pretty good.

Another option would be a 3 level dip into UnRogue followed by levels in fighter

[Mehangel]

Personally, if I wanted to make a swashbuckler without levels in the swashbuckler class, I would probably utilize Spheres of Might, focusing in the dueling and scoundrel spheres. Class wouldn't really be important, but I would probably choose conscript.

[Hackulator]

Well, with stats like those you're not going to make a good magus, though Bard or Skald are both very strong options that can utilize a DEX/CHA build. Dervish of Dawn bards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish) A.K.A. Dawnflower Dervishes, can do a good job at it, substituting a scimitar for the usual rapier shenanigans.

The Eldritch Scion Magus archetype uses Cha instead of Int so he could definitely be a good Magus. Though personally I'd prefer if he had a high Str not Dex, you can make a weapon finesse build work.

[CactusAir]

What is the essence of a Swashbuckler?

generally a light, bladed weapon, minimal armor, acrobatics ability, witty repartee (CHA as key stat?), a dash of luck.

There are many ways you could play that.

Have you checked out Spheres of might (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/spheres-of-might)? They have Duelist and Fencing spheres that might fit your needs.

With the Flexible Forms (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-traits) trait, you can pick from a good half dozen Veil Weapons that offer cool powers and effects

OR you could be a Psychic Warrior and just reflavor your psy-powers as just Verve, Elan and Wit tilting things in your favor

[Caedes]

Hello All,

Had to have conversations with the DM before moving forward. He is not allowing any third party content aside from Psionics into the campaign. So, Spheres and Path of War are out.

This makes me sad. Especially since the Warlord looks like so much fun.

Right now I am looking at Dervish of Dawn builds. Or the Scion Magus. Either one with the initial 3 lvl dip in SB.

I have been trying to figure out some purely martial shenanigans. But, Shenanigans, Swashbuckleresque and martial do not seem to jive well.

*thinks*

[Arutema]

Hello All,

Had to have conversations with the DM before moving forward. He is not allowing any third party content aside from Psionics into the campaign. So, Spheres and Path of War are out.

This makes me sad. Especially since the Warlord looks like so much fun.

Right now I am looking at Dervish of Dawn builds. Or the Scion Magus. Either one with the initial 3 lvl dip in SB.

I have been trying to figure out some purely martial shenanigans. But, Shenanigans, Swashbuckleresque and martial do not seem to jive well.

*thinks*

It is the nature of 3.P that true shenanigans require spellcasting.

[Kurald Galain]

I have been trying to figure out some purely martial shenanigans. But, Shenanigans, Swashbuckleresque and martial do not seem to jive well.
Well, not at level 16 they don't. At low to moderate levels they're much more feasible.

Anyway, here's a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus) on Eldritch Scions.

[Yondu]

I mean, I'd say the Magus is the most optimal choice.... for a lot of builds, really. But the OP did specify that they would prefer to stay martial, which the Magus most assuredly isn't.

That being said, OP, if you could perhaps divulge more details on what your ability scores look like, and if you could quantify what a "swashbuckler/master swordsmen" means to you in relation to the game, it may help people get a firmer grasp of what you're looking for in your build.
You can also make a Fighter with Magus VMC, taking flamboyant arcana at 7th, with good intelligence for the pool, advanced weapon training : fighter's finesse, trained grace (suboptimal except for TWF with effortless TWF AWT), you can have a flair of swashbuckler and a faily decent character

[CharonsHelper]

Hello Playgrounders!

I am trying to build Swashbuckler type character without using the aforementioned class. The campaign this will be in is combat heavy with a fair amount of optimization on the DM side (Which is cool. We like it that way). And the SB class is a bit uhm... underwhelming.

Swashbuckler is decent for a martial - the main weakness being their saves. If you grab the Noble Fencer archetype (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo-swashbuckler-archetypes/noble-fencer-swashbuckler-archetype/) it mostly fixes that by giving them bonuses to Will saves. If the Paladin oath doesn't mess with your style, a 2 level dip into Paladin (which meshes well) will shore up any lingering saving throw issues.

Now - at level 16 you will of course still run into martial/caster issues, but the only way to avoid that is to play a caster, which doesn't sound like it's your jam.

For a 20 point buy without gear, something like -

Halfling Paladin 2 / Swashbuckler (Noble Fencer archetype) 14

STR: 5
DEX: 23
CON: 14
INT: 11
WIS: 10
CHA: 16

Use a rapier with Fencing Grace, and a buckler in your off-hand. With Celestial chainmail, the shield bonus, and the Swashbuckler's Nimble, your AC should be ridiculous even before parry/riposte (which can be used against touch attacks). Probably close to 50 without trying too hard.

With Divine Grace and the paladin dip giving you +3 fort/will, your saves should be solid, especially against mind-affecting spells. (With +6 CHA headband & +5 resist cloak, you should be right around Reflex: +30 (with evasion) / Fort: +19 / Will: +17 w/ +21 vs mind-affecting - which is respectable.)

And with Precise Strike/Training your damage will be in the same ballpark as a two-hander despite using a rapier.

By 16 you should pick up some critical feats, and since the Swashbuckler levels count as Fighter levels for feat selection, you can snag the best ones (like Critical Mastery). At 17 you can take Stunning Critical - which combined with Crticical Mastery & Censoring Critical means that casters just can't do anything to you if you can close and get one crit.

[Mehangel]

Well, if DSP's Psionics are allowed, might I suggest a soulknife with the Nimble Blade and Gifted Blade archetypes? Most of the manifesting that the soulknife does is self empowerment/buffing and can even have its manifestation components suppressed, so to not be perceived as "magical".

In addition, the combination of the two archetypes pushes the soulknife into a solid Tier 3 (especially after level 10, when you can at a moments notice grab any blade skill you need for the situation). What this means, is that while you might not be shining along with the casters at high levels, you also won't be left in the dust, and will always find a way to contribute.