Running in the Abyss or Nine Hells

[Madara]

It's finally happened- I've gotten a party in 3.5 from level 1 to 9 without the game getting too wiggly.

They're transported to a hostile outer plane (still have left to pick) during the last session and now we're on break.

I've never run the Abyss or done much with Devils/Demons. What can I do to get the *flavor* right?

Part has
Dread Necro
Wizard (Conjuration)
A strange multiclass hybrid melee barbarian Ogre wielding the Axe of Emperors
A Psion who just finally got some thrallherd

[Hackulator]

The Abyss is easier to run imo, as it's "the infinite layers of the abyss" so it can literally be anything you want, and it's chaotic so it can be all sorts of insanity.

The Nine Hells are regimented and specific, so while you can just make stuff up, it can cause a lot more continuity problems later on if the party continues to adventure there.

For the Abyss, it should basically be insanity. Horrible **** with no rhyme or reason other than to cause more horror. Though the more powerful demons and Demon Lords may have semi-coherent goals and plans, your party isn't really up to that level yet.

For the Nine Hells, you have to think Tyranny. Totally evil, but nobody better step out of line. It is theoretically more possible for an adventuring party to move through the Nine Hells without combat, if they can navigate the labyrinth of rules and regulations that govern them. Devils are more likely to make deals and keep them, though they are the masters of saying something that you interpret the wrong way. Infernal dealings can be great story hooks for later. The Nine Hells also gives you more of an out if things go bad for your party, as the aforementioned deals may allow them to escape, albeit with some horrible things coming down the pipe when the devil gets his due.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Which sounds better for a background: Mad Max or Demolition Man but, in both cases, the horrific part is turned up to 11 15 and the redeeming qualities of humanity are utterly absent.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe have them run into the damned soul of someone they knew or fought?

[Hackulator]

Which sounds better for a background: Mad Max or Demolition Man but, in both cases, the horrific part is turned up to 11 15 and the redeeming qualities of humanity are utterly absent.

This is amusingly accurate except in the Nine Hells they wouldn't need any help to brutally crush and murder Denis Leary's merry band of sewer dwelling rebels.

[Madara]

Which sounds better for a background: Mad Max or Demolition Man but, in both cases, the horrific part is turned up to 11 15 and the redeeming qualities of humanity are utterly absent.

I think I'll have to chase after the Mad Max vibe.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think I'll have to chase after the Mad Max vibe.

Then go with the abyss. The place isn't completely unstructured madness made manifest, that's the far realm, but it doesn't have to make sense either. Most of it is untrammeled wilderness occupied by raving beasts that are smart enough to enjoy the horrors they're about to wreak on you. The few "settled" areas are mostly wild-west style towns where the veneer of civility is paper thin and stretched as tight as a drum skin. Even the larger cities controlled by Grazz't and Malcanthet are like that, just much larger. The locals respect only strength, although "respect" probably isn't the right word for it with most.

If you have 'em, Fiendish Codex 1 gives you some specifics on the abyss itself and Heroes of Horror's section on dreams and nightmares is great for coming up with wilderness scenery in any of the lower planes.

[Madara]

Any specific demons of choice?

I have all sources, but there's frankly way to many demons to pick from.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Depends on level (9, right) and what degree of subtlety you're working with. Also, don't forget about fiendish creatures and half-fiends.

Vrocks are the core CR9 option.

[jintoya]

The abyss is great for weird monsters, I had some botched summons bring people who were normal.... Except inside-out.
They treated my players like they were the ones who were inside-out and described them tossing their lunch.... It was awesome!

[XionUnborn01]

I like to treat the abyss like vision Constantine had in the Keanu Reeves movie. It looks like it should be the city but theres fire and chaos everywhere.

You can put them in a part of the abyss thats almost a twisted reflection of where they came from, or a place they know.

[Jowgen]

Running in the 9 Hells is pretty straightforward, as all you could ever want to know is in Fiendish Codex II. Dragon 361 has some extra archdevils too if you're not satisfied with that.

Abyss is a great option if you want to play it loose as opposed to by the book, in which case I do still recommend the various Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles from Dragon mag, as well as the savage tide adventure path, as they both give great insight into just how wide a range of environs the abyss provides. Other sources include FCI and Expedition to the Demonweb.

[Madara]

Running in the 9 Hells is pretty straightforward, as all you could ever want to know is in Fiendish Codex II. Dragon 361 has some extra archdevils too if you're not satisfied with that.

Abyss is a great option if you want to play it loose as opposed to by the book, in which case I do still recommend the various Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles from Dragon mag, as well as the savage tide adventure path, as they both give great insight into just how wide a range of environs the abyss provides. Other sources include FCI and Expedition to the Demonweb.

It seems like a lot of the material places a pretty high importance on the demon lords. Are there any other key/iconic parts to the abyss that players should experience?

My goal at this point is I want players to get to check off some stuff from the proverbial D&D bucket list. Do either the Abyss or the Nine Hells have any iconic material that isn't Archdevils/Demon Lords?

I can easily tone some things down a bit to the party's level if needed, but I'm curious if there's anything they shouldn't miss while they're on vacation in "disney world."

[Buufreak]

in which case I do still recommend the various Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles from Dragon mag,

You wouldn't happen to know a few of those numbers off the top of your head, would you?

[Red Fel]

It seems like a lot of the material places a pretty high importance on the demon lords. Are there any other key/iconic parts to the abyss that players should experience?

My goal at this point is I want players to get to check off some stuff from the proverbial D&D bucket list. Do either the Abyss or the Nine Hells have any iconic material that isn't Archdevils/Demon Lords?

I can easily tone some things down a bit to the party's level if needed, but I'm curious if there's anything they shouldn't miss while they're on vacation in "disney world."

Actually, at CR 9, I'd leave the Demon Lords out entirely. Frankly, you probably don't want this particular episode to cover all of the "iconic" parts of the Abyss, as (1) the Abyss is infinite and it would take way too much time, and (2) many of those places are way above the PCs' weight class.

I'd keep this adventure light and simple enough that there's more to which they can look forward if they return, but still tense and dark and dangerous. Just make it The Wild West, But In Hell, and name-drop a lot of good stuff. Heck, you could have this be on a layer that does house one of the Demon Lords, and the PCs are basically on a timeline to get their job done and get out before the local Big Bad shows up to give them all a case of dead.

[Madara]

Actually, at CR 9, I'd leave the Demon Lords out entirely. Frankly, you probably don't want this particular episode to cover all of the "iconic" parts of the Abyss, as (1) the Abyss is infinite and it would take way too much time, and (2) many of those places are way above the PCs' weight class.

I'd keep this adventure light and simple enough that there's more to which they can look forward if they return, but still tense and dark and dangerous. Just make it The Wild West, But In Hell, and name-drop a lot of good stuff. Heck, you could have this be on a layer that does house one of the Demon Lords, and the PCs are basically on a timeline to get their job done and get out before the local Big Bad shows up to give them all a case of dead.

So I'm kinda looking at pulling a Jurassic park? They're going on a safe tour next to really scary stuff but it's not actually safe and once you see some neat things, you want to run away.

Now I'll just figure out how to have enough clear warning signs that remind them just because there's a monster in front of you, it doesn't mean you can beat it.

Party was Plane Shifted by a foe and the end of the climax, their quest is simply to escape now (which would've been much easier when they still had the cleric).

[Mike Miller]

You wouldn't happen to know a few of those numbers off the top of your head, would you?

329, 333, 336, 337, 341, 345, 349, 353, 357, 359 I believe

[Buufreak]

329, 333, 336, 337, 341, 345, 349, 353, 357, 359 I believe

Someone just added themselves to the list of people who deserve a hug.

[Red Fel]

So I'm kinda looking at pulling a Jurassic park? They're going on a safe tour next to really scary stuff but it's not actually safe and once you see some neat things, you want to run away.

Now I'll just figure out how to have enough clear warning signs that remind them just because there's a monster in front of you, it doesn't mean you can beat it.

Party was Plane Shifted by a foe and the end of the climax, their quest is simply to escape now (which would've been much easier when they still had the cleric).

Given the infinite nature of the Abyss, it actually wouldn't be inconceivable to find a place with a semi-stable portal or gate out. In fact, if you really want to turn this into an opportunity to open up the Planes for future adventures, consider the following:

In the Outlands - the circular Plane at the hub of the Outer Planes - there are arranged, around the rim of the wheel, Portal Towns. Each town is centered around a naturally-occurring portal to the corresponding Plane. The town corresponding to the Abyss is called Plague-Mort.

Well, every door has two sides, right?

Your party finds themselves in a dangerous layer of the Abyss, but near a road. Roads suggest towns. They're actually not far from a ramshackle Wild West-style town. This town is beset by peril, but offers the promise of reward - it's on the other side of the portal from Plague-Mort. Problem is, while the Plague-Mort side of the portal is stable, the Abyss side - like most things in the Abyss - is not. So the party has to survive, and do what they can to help, until the portal manifests - and then make it through to the other side - without being discovered, corrupted, killed, or eaten.

If they succeed, they find themselves in the Outlands, with a better chance of making their way home. They may even find their way to Sigil, which opens up the possibility of more Outer Planes adventures when they're a bit better prepared for them.