Ranger beast master (revised) has never been this good!

[Rukelnikov]

I was reading another thread and this idea hit me hard.

Its somewhat of a concensus that beast master ranger is one of the weakest classes in the game, so with that in mind its pretty possible that your friendly neighborhood DM might let your animal companion take feats when it gains ASIs...

Asuming That:

We are gonna be Akane the Lightfoot Halfling and take 3 levels of Ranger(Revised) and obviously go Beast Master.

We will form a kind of halfling Beast Bond with Paco the Ape. He's larger than us so we will probably be hiding behind him a lot.

**

Now we are gonna cheer for Paco when he protects us, so we are gonna take a level of Bard, to cheer for him and fill him with Heroism!

When we eventually become 3rd level bard, we go Valor, our cheering has improved!

**

Everything's going great, but we are bard 4 now and need to keep improving, so we are gonna start pep talking Paco before the battle has started, so we take Inspiring Leader, ha needs to give 110%!!

On his part, Paco has spent enough time in armed figths that he's got the knack of it, talking Weapon Master for longsword(fluffed as katana if possible?), shortsword(wakizashi?), darts(...shurikens???)

**

By the time Akane gets to Bard 8 her bond with Paco is such that her halfling luck helps him when its needed the most, she takes Bountiful Luck!

Throughout his time engaged in fighting with a sword each hand, Paco perfected his off hand blocking technique, taking Defensive Duelist.

**

Bard 10, Akane's cheering is so powerful, now Paco fights and reacts with a Haste never before seen in him, Akane's Aid has never been as good!

**

By Akane's 12th level Paco's martial aptitude is rivaled by few, his dueling skills have been upgraded to riposte enemies, and he's becomig something of a commander on the battlefield already.

**

And finally by the time Akane reached 16th level, Paco's exposure to vasts amounts of magic has finally sank in, initiating him in its ways, his sword bursts Green with Flame sometimes, and for some reason a Hawk now treats him as family and helps him fight.

**

I did not try to optimize the "build", I just went full thematic awesomeness

[CTurbo]

The beast companion scales with Ranger levels, not character levels so with Ranger 3, the ape would never see a ASI/feat. I would allow a companion to take a feat though if it made sense.

[ImproperJustice]

Revised Ranger Beastmaster is far from a weak subclass anymore.

Have seen two Beastmasters in action, one with a Giant Snake and another with a Panther.

It was like the PC had two characters at once and they were strong together. Out GM did allow the Beast to use its ASIs to get feats, so we saw the Giant Snake utilize Sentinel to great effect, and the Panther snagged Toughness at one point.

But yeah, the beast was an excellent spotter, both had stealth and various times they could be of utilitarian use, and juat having a second ally on the field. It was pretty cool.

[Chronos]

Assuming we're talking about the Unearthed Arcana one, the irony is that the power level is almost completely unchanged. The problem with the Beastmaster was never that it was underpowered; it was that it didn't make sense. They just found a way to package the same power in a way that does make sense.

In the process, they also tidied up some things with the base ranger class (like giving them a Favored Enemy ability instead of a Favored Conversation Partner ability), and changed a few of the ribbons around in a way that, I think, is on net positive.

[Rukelnikov]

The beast companion scales with Ranger levels, not character levels so with Ranger 3, the ape would never see a ASI/feat. I would allow a companion to take a feat though if it made sense.

I know it has to work like that, otherwise it would be too good a feature for only 3 levels. But I can't find the rule that says its so.


Revised Ranger Beastmaster is far from a weak subclass anymore.

Have seen two Beastmasters in action, one with a Giant Snake and another with a Panther.

It was like the PC had two characters at once and they were strong together. Out GM did allow the Beast to use its ASIs to get feats, so we saw the Giant Snake utilize Sentinel to great effect, and the Panther snagged Toughness at one point.

But yeah, the beast was an excellent spotter, both had stealth and various times they could be of utilitarian use, and juat having a second ally on the field. It was pretty cool.

Yeah, I did this as a joke, but allowing ASIs to AC looks like it would make them far more competitive (even when its only the more sensical ones)

[ImproperJustice]

Barding can be an option too.

In my example listed above, the Panther’s owner invested in an enchanted set of studded leather armor.

Their really wasn’t a good option for the Snake defensively, but it would make good use of it’s climb skill and reach to often launch suprise attacks from doorways or sometimes sropping from the cieling / torch sconces on unsuspecting foes.

[Rukelnikov]

Barding can be an option too.

I thought of this since the Warhorse says it can have barding, however, should it be able to still ad its proficiency to armor while wearing barding? sounds like too much maybe

[ImproperJustice]

Eeeeh *shrugs*

Our GM was ok with it, since we were fighting dinosaurs, krakens, and then giants that hit for like 40+ damage a swing....

[Pez5150]

Revised Ranger Beastmaster is far from a weak subclass anymore.

Have seen two Beastmasters in action, one with a Giant Snake and another with a Panther.

It was like the PC had two characters at once and they were strong together. Out GM did allow the Beast to use its ASIs to get feats, so we saw the Giant Snake utilize Sentinel to great effect, and the Panther snagged Toughness at one point.

But yeah, the beast was an excellent spotter, both had stealth and various times they could be of utilitarian use, and juat having a second ally on the field. It was pretty cool.


It wasn't a weak subclass, just not fun to play. You didn't really feel like you had a mystical connection to your beast companion. The damage output is pretty decent, but it required being ok with getting your animal companion killed sometimes.

If I had a complaint it'd be the low health amount of your companion

[CTurbo]

Here is the best beastmaster possible IMO

Kobold UA Revised Beastmaster 12/Ancients Paladin 8 (or Ranger 13/Paladin 7 if you don't care about the extra ASI and want the 4th level Ranger spell slot)

Wolf Companion

Mounted Combat feat

Ride your wolf. Both of you always have advantage on all attacks. Paladin's extra attack stacks with the Beastmaster's Coordinated attack so both you and your wolf get two attacks per round. While riding your wolf, it cannot ever be targeted by an attack and it'll also always be in your auras.

For fighting styles you could either take Archery and a melee style or Defense and a melee style. Dueling with a Lance and Shield and the Defense style would be awesome. If you really want to be cheesy take Defense, TWF, the Dual Wielder feat and use TWO Lances lol


You COULD go Paladin 12/Ranger 8 (or Paladin 13/Ranger 7 if you don't care about the extra ASI and want the 4th level Paladin spell slot) if you don't care about making your Wolf stronger.

[KorvinStarmast]

It wasn't a weak subclass, just not fun to play. You didn't really feel like you had a mystical connection to your beast companion. The damage output is pretty decent, but it required being ok with getting your animal companion killed sometimes. If I had a complaint it'd be the low health amount of your companion I'd rather they might have considered the idea of the Ranger Beast Master's Companion CR going up the way a cantrip goes up for a spell caster.
At tier 1, CR 1/4
At Tire 2, CR 1/2
At Tier 3, CR 1
At Tier 4, CR 2

This might mitigate the survival problem a bit, and the Ranger would see a power spike at 5 with the CR 1/2 companion, but power spikes at 5 are pretty substantial for all classes.

Or, pattern it after the Druid CR table (Per the PHB) for change shape.
Level...Max. CR....Limitations...........................Exampl e
2nd..... 1/4..........No flying or swimming speed..Wolf
4th......1/2..........No flying speed......................Crocodile
8th........1............... No Limitations................... Giant Eagle

To something like this:

At level 3: CR 1/4
At level 7(8?): CR 1/2
At Level 11(12?): CR 1
At Level 13(116?): CR 2

The point here is not just scaling, but the in fiction point about what kind of adventures a Ranger at Higher levels encounters. World shaking things .. think Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox ...

Just an idea, and I don't think the balance point gets messed up as the beasts tend to have low AC and higher level monsters hit often and hard.

[Pez5150]

I'd rather they might have considered the idea of the Ranger Beast Master's Companion CR going up the way a cantrip goes up for a spell caster.
At tier 1, CR 1/4
At Tire 2, CR 1/2
At Tier 3, CR 1
At Tier 4, CR 2

This might mitigate the survival problem a bit, and the Ranger would see a power spike at 5 with the CR 1/2 companion, but power spikes at 5 are pretty substantial for all classes.

Or, pattern it after the Druid CR table (Per the PHB) for change shape.
Level...Max. CR....Limitations...........................Exampl e
2nd..... 1/4..........No flying or swimming speed..Wolf
4th......1/2..........No flying speed......................Crocodile
8th........1............... No Limitations................... Giant Eagle

To something like this:

At level 3: CR 1/4
At level 7(8?): CR 1/2
At Level 11(12?): CR 1
At Level 13(116?): CR 2

The point here is not just scaling, but the in fiction point about what kind of adventures a Ranger at Higher levels encounters. World shaking things .. think Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox ...

Just an idea, and I don't think the balance point gets messed up as the beasts tend to have low AC and higher level monsters hit often and hard.

This guy does a great job of explaining why the beast master is not good or fun. Also if you up the CR you up the damage output which isn't a great idea. You'll want to be crunching the numbers, otherwise I wouldn't just say off the cuff you get a CR 2 creature as a companion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3l7ren/what_the_beast_master_needs_is_accounting/

[opaopajr]

That Reddit topic has a concept I do like: giving the Ranger a Ritual to share its Hit Dice with its Animal Companion. :smallsmile:

I actually think that, and giving the Ranger access to Rituals in general, would go a long way to helping the class.

As for the BM Ranger PHB, I would add:
a) that "Shared HD" Ritual,
b) reword clause to let PB affect all saves & two skills of choice (UA Revised style), and
c) add an Animal Companion Reaction similar to UA Revised Coordinated Attacks, yet not so much action economy & control -- "when you take the Attack action you may have the Animal Companion use its Reaction to attack its nearest target in reach (random, if multiple targets)."

From there it's a setting aesthetic whether to let the Animal Companion lvl up in HP with BM Ranger level, (let alone resurrect with or without corpse,) or allow higher CRs per tier. In my settings I would prefer not to both and may instead give "pre-programmed tricks," for greater Explore & Social pillar stuff. Something closer to the Beastmaster movie where his animals obey his trick over greater time & distance, like steal prison keys. :smallcool:

[NaughtyTiger]

This guy does a great job of explaining why the beast master is not good or fun.

I can't imagine him explaining anything would make it look fun.

Beastmaster is a blast to play, and the errata addresses 2 of the biggest weaknesses of the class.
Revised Ranger is much more powerful than PHB ranger, ergo, Revised Ranger-Beastmaster is much more powerful than PHB beastmaster. (dare i say overpowered)

[Max_Killjoy]

This is the Rev Ranger iteration under discussion?

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf