The Destroyer of all undead

[Max Caysey]

So, I'm trying to build an undead hunter for an upcoming game...

I'm thinking that I want it to be primarily melee, but with some spellcasting. I need it to be max level 20, but I had imagined this guy around level 12-16.


As of now, I'm thinking something like: Fighter 4/ Paladin of Lathander 2/ Ranger 1/ Cleric 7/ Radiant Servant of Pelor (Lathander) 2

Feats:
Flaw 1 Weapon Focus (Lucerne Hammer)
Flaw 2: Extra Turning
Human: Extend Spell
Level 1: Persistent Spell
Level 1 (Fighter): Short Haft
Level 2 (Fighter): Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning)
Level 3: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
Level 4 (Fighter): Weapon Specialization (Lucerne Hammer)
Level 6: Sacred Healing
Level 9: Sacred Purification
Level 12: Extra Turning
Level 15: ?


Items:
+2 Adamantine, Dwarvencrafted, Resilient, Holy, Disrupting, Collision, Bane (Undead), Impact Lucerne Hammer (Truedeath Crystal, Greater)
+3 Mithral, Dwarvencrafted, Resilient, Restful, Easy Travel, Lightweight, Halfweight, Reinforced, Ghost Ward Full Plate (Crystal of Lifekeeping, Greater)
+3 Ring of Protection
+2 Necklace of Natural Armor
+3 Cloak of Resistance
+4 Monk’s Belt of Excellence (Can I gain the benefit while wearing armor?)
+2 Headband of Brilliance
Steadfast Boots
Scepter of the Netherworld
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows

Buff spells (Persisted):
Divine Power
Elation (Does it buff Str and Dex score or Str and Dex modifier?)

Buff Spell on demand:
Bless
Divine Favor
Healthful Rest
Vigor
Celestial Brilliance
Holy Transformation, Lesser
Positive Energy Aura
Crown of Flame


What I'm looking for is build ideas centered around the ability to destroy undead galore. I would like this battle priest to be a concept of buffing up and then wading into masses of undead destroying them primarily using melee, and occasionally spells and abilities... A real anti undead dude. However, I feel kind of uninspired... So I need some inspirations from your guys... There are probable some cool builds ou there that I don't know...

Any ideas for classes, (ACF), feats, items and good buff spells are welcome! I just simply need this dude to be able to take on undead like there was no tomorrow...

Cheers

[Jowgen]

This old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501809-One-Turn-man-bone-talisman-turn-undead-optimization)of mine might be helpful.

Another thing to keep in mind are the Ravages from BoED. This stuff explicitly pierces their poison immunity, does flat extra ability damage just because they're undead, and undead universally have middling to terrible fort saves. A couple hits with the right stuff can down riddiculously over-CRed undead no problem.

[Max Caysey]

This old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501809-One-Turn-man-bone-talisman-turn-undead-optimization)of mine might be helpful.

Another thing to keep in mind are the Ravages from BoED. This stuff explicitly pierces their poison immunity, does flat extra ability damage just because they're undead, and undead universally have middling to terrible fort saves. A couple hits with the right stuff can down riddiculously over-CRed undead no problem.

Thank you... That was a great source of inspiration!

I do have some questions regarding parts of my build:


1) Do multiple Nightsticks stack, and do they take op a body slot?

2) If I have cast (persisted) Divine power, which then makes my base attack 16, would I then qualify for feats that require base attack 15? I ask because I want some feats or ability to make 5 ft. steps provoke AoO, within my threatened area.

3) Do I get any benefits from Monk's Belt, while wearing armor? I cant figure out if it works since its an item!

4) Is there a RAW way of adding the enchantment of the Rod of Defiance and/or Scepter of the Netherworld to the weapon? Or, if not, then into one item?


I think that was it right now... I sincerely appreciate any help I can get!

Cheers!

[tyckspoon]

Thank you... That was a great source of inspiration!

I do have some questions regarding parts of my build:


1) Do multiple Nightsticks stack, and do they take op a body slot?

2) If I have cast (persisted) Divine power, which then makes my base attack 16, would I then qualify for feats that require base attack 15? I ask because I want some feats or ability to make 5 ft. steps provoke AoO, within my threatened area.

3) Do I get any benefits from Monk's Belt, while wearing armor? I cant figure out if it works since its an item!

4) Is there a RAW way of adding the enchantment of the Rod of Defiance and/or Scepter of the Netherworld to the weapon? Or, if not, then into one item?


I think that was it right now... I sincerely appreciate any help I can get!

Cheers!

1: Strictly by text, yes and no - it is far easier to conclude that Nightsticks are supposed to be stackable than otherwise. Your DM may feel they should not, however, and that is not something I would argue about too hard.

2: Yes; D&D does not, generally speaking, care where your qualifications come from, only that you have them. Note that anything you qualify for this way will be deactivated if your Divine Power goes away, either by being in a gap period where the duration expires or somebody Dispels it off you. Again, your DM may have different opinions - while the rules are fairly clear on this, a lot of people have very strong reactions to the idea of qualifying for feats/classes/etc with 'temporary' or non-inherent effects and stat bonuses.

3. No; the Monk's Belt grants you the AC bonus 'as a Monk.' So unless it says otherwise, refer to the Monk's AC Bonus feature to see how that works; you inherit all the limitations of it if not otherwise mentioned.

4: Sort of. The DMG gives guidelines for customizing and modifying items; it should be noted that they all say 'ask your DM if this is appropriate'. One of the more stable/generally accepted ones, however, is for combining items together - increase the cheaper item's cost by 1.5x.

[Max Caysey]

1: Strictly by text, yes and no - it is far easier to conclude that Nightsticks are supposed to be stackable than otherwise. Your DM may feel they should not, however, and that is not something I would argue about too hard.

2: Yes; D&D does not, generally speaking, care where your qualifications come from, only that you have them. Note that anything you qualify for this way will be deactivated if your Divine Power goes away, either by being in a gap period where the duration expires or somebody Dispels it off you. Again, your DM may have different opinions - while the rules are fairly clear on this, a lot of people have very strong reactions to the idea of qualifying for feats/classes/etc with 'temporary' or non-inherent effects and stat bonuses.

3. No; the Monk's Belt grants you the AC bonus 'as a Monk.' So unless it says otherwise, refer to the Monk's AC Bonus feature to see how that works; you inherit all the limitations of it if not otherwise mentioned.

4: Sort of. The DMG gives guidelines for customizing and modifying items; it should be noted that they all say 'ask your DM if this is appropriate'. One of the more stable/generally accepted ones, however, is for combining items together - increase the cheaper item's cost by 1.5x.

Thank you for your answers, they are very helpful!


I have a few follow-up questions I hope some of your will be able to clarify for me:

1) Do nightsticks have a bodyslot?

2) Do Holy Symbols have a bodyslot?

3) Does Rod of Defiance work on undead creatures that does not specifically have turn resistance? I mean would I count a Dread Wraith as 4 HD lower within the area of the Rod? And if so, how would that effect a HD 1 skeleton warrior?

4) Celestial Brilliance gives double penalty to creatures with light sensitivity. How would that affect creatures like Nightshades, which has Aversion to Daylight?

5) The Turn Undead ability says that being twice the level of the undead turned, destroys it... Would I include all my level modifiers, like Phylactery of Undead Turning, when calculating my level for destroying undead?


Thank you all in advance, I know there's a lot of questions coming!

Cheers

[zlefin]

Just curious:
why do you want to emphasize beating undead via melee combat rather than via abilities?

[AvatarVecna]

If you have the levels to spare, or if you can snipe abilities in some fashion, Hunter Of The Dead 5 makes it so undead destroyed by you can never be undead again.

[Maat Mons]

A purple mournload (Magic of Eberron, p141) weapon counts as both cold iron and silver for purposes of overcoming the DR of undead. A ring of adamantine touch (Magic Item Compendium, p121) would also let you cover adamantine-DR with the same weapon.

Holy warrior (Complete Champion, p60) is a nice damage boost for melee clerics. You do need the war domain though.

The single best item for a dedicated undead hunter is a Shirt of Wraith stalking (Magic Item Compendium, p216). It makes you invisible to undead. And unlike the hide from undead spell, it doesn't allow a saving throw, even for intelligent undead. Of course, being invisible doesn't hide any light you're emitting. So you'll want darkvision, to travel the dark crypts undead favor without giving yourself away. And you'll want to be a warforged, for those undead with lifesense.

DR/slashing is pretty common for undead too, not just /bludgeoning. The only bludgeoning and slashing weapon I can think of is executioner's mace (Dungeon 135, p61).

[Bohandas]

Regarding items.

Definitely carry some kind of mirror for vampire detection. You can make an array of mirrors that looks straight forward by basically sticking 2 periscopes together.

As for weapon and armor materials, there's not really any published rules for this but what if you used holy water to make pykrete?

[Max Caysey]

Just curious:
why do you want to emphasize beating undead via melee combat rather than via abilities?
Rule of cool really... I just think its most cool that way, albeit not the most powerful. I want sort of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHL_-biMrQ&t=61s) :smallredface: Aka, that draenei dude! Buff, and melee!



If you have the levels to spare, or if you can snipe abilities in some fashion, Hunter Of The Dead 5 makes it so undead destroyed by you can never be undead again.
Its tough man... I really dont. But I totally agree, that 5 levels Hunter of the Dead would fit perfectly.



A purple mournload (Magic of Eberron, p141) weapon counts as both cold iron and silver for purposes of overcoming the DR of undead. A ring of adamantine touch (Magic Item Compendium, p121) would also let you cover adamantine-DR with the same weapon.

Holy warrior (Complete Champion, p60) is a nice damage boost for melee clerics. You do need the war domain though.

The single best item for a dedicated undead hunter is a Shirt of Wraith stalking (Magic Item Compendium, p216). It makes you invisible to undead. And unlike the hide from undead spell, it doesn't allow a saving throw, even for intelligent undead. Of course, being invisible doesn't hide any light you're emitting. So you'll want darkvision, to travel the dark crypts undead favor without giving yourself away. And you'll want to be a warforged, for those undead with lifesense.

DR/slashing is pretty common for undead too, not just /bludgeoning. The only bludgeoning and slashing weapon I can think of is executioner's mace (Dungeon 135, p61).
Thanks, Ill be checking all that out!



Regarding items.

Definitely carry some kind of mirror for vampire detection. You can make an array of mirrors that looks straight forward by basically sticking 2 periscopes together.

As for weapon and armor materials, there's not really any published rules for this but what if you used holy water to make pykrete?
I'll check that out too! :)

Keep them coming guys!

Cheers!

[Anthrowhale]

You can significantly increase melee ability by dropping levels of fighter for cleric and using prestige paladin instead. This gives access to higher level cleric spells and better turn undead.

Use the spell domain to access Greater Mighty Wallop to amplify blunt weapon damage.

If you take Intuitive Attack and switch your primary weapon to a Morningstar you can use wisdom bonus to hit things in melee. Alternatively, you could use strength effectively through Draconic Polymorph accessed through the Spell domain again. A third approach is to take Searing Spell with persistent darkfire and lesser rod of maximize spell for melee touch fire damage.

You may want to persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Favor, Mass Lesser Vigor, and Recitation.

Edit: Oh, and Serenity can make divine grace and turn undead be powered by Wisdom.

[Maat Mons]

Ranger 2

If you want favored enemy (undead), why not just use the paladin variant that grants it (Unearthed Arcana, p58)? The only thing you give up is lay on hands. And is the lay on hands ability of a 2nd-level paladin really that helpful at level 16?




Radiant Servant of Pelor

The mastery of day and night feat (Player's Guide to Eberron, p125) maximizes every cure spell you cast. I'd recommend that instead of Radiant Servant of Pelor.




Fighter 4

I'd recommend against the fighter levels. Yes, you gain +4 damage from weapon specialization and melee weapon mastery, but you set the damage from the holy warrior feat back by 2. So you're only really netting +2 damage. And you could make up that much damage by switching from a lucerne hammer to a 2d6 weapon, like executioner's mace, goliath greathammer, or warmace.

And if you're using greater mighty wallop, as suggested earlier, those fighter levels set you back a full size category for effective weapon damage. That can account for as much as 2d6 damage. So you could wind up ultimately decreasing your average damage by as much as -5 in your quest to increase your damage.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If you're going to be dishing out touch spells (e.g. healing spells), the feat Touch of Golden Ice is well worth looking at. The save is fairly low, but it does a significant chunk of Dex damage and undead have pretty bad Fort saves anyway. Also makes a nice fallback if you're disarmed.

[Maat Mons]

If I were building an undead-slaying juggernaut, it'd probably look something like this:



Paladin 2 / Cleric 8 / Contemplative 6

Deity: Dol Arrah, Heironeous, Tyr, or the Sovereign Host (or none)

Domains: Pride and War (gain 3rd domain at ECL 16)

ACFs
Gain Favored Enemy; lose Lay on Hands
Can spontaneously cast Restoration spells; lose granted power of War domain

Feats
1: Maximize Spell
Human: Persistent Spell
Flaw 1: Extend Spell
Flaw 2: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
3: Serenity
6: Mastery of Day and Night
9: Holy Warrior
12: Nemesis (Undead)
15: open

Highlights
Holy Warrior give +7 damage (at ECL 16)
Divine Grace + Serenity gives +Wisdom to saves
Pride domain lets you reroll 1's on saves
Auto-detect Undead within 60 feet (via Nemesis + Favored Enemy (Undead))
Contemplative gives immunity to disease and poison
Auto-maximize all Cure spells (from Mastery of Day and Night)



As you can see, I wasn't able to squeeze in Greater Mighty Wallop. But if there's a Wizard in your party, you can probably convince him to use one of his 3rd-level spell to buff your weapon. (It lasts 1 hour/level, so one casting should be enough.) Maybe compensate him with some buff spells from your list.

[Anthrowhale]

A minor variation:
Take Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) instead of Paladin to advance cleric casting and Turn Undead.