Caster with no direct damage

[Willie the Duck]

Hi all,
One of my main groups is the kind that thinks of playing a (n arcane) spellcaster as a slow progression from magic missiles to fireballs, to meteor swarm (although we never get that high a level). At some point, I would like to try to show them how useful non-direct-damage spells are to wizards/sorcs/etc. I was thinking of playing a wizard or sorcerer (maybe bard) and deliberately not picking up any direct damage spells (except maybe SCAG cantrips if I end up supplementing by being a gish build).

What race/class/spells would you do to do that best? We're doing dungeon of the mad mage, so it will be fairly dungeon-crawly. The party (other than my ranger, who would have to die if I were to be doing this) is an high elf evoker (naturally), high elf swashbuckler rogue, human pact of blade chainlock, and a half-orc Eldritch Knight (low int) fighter (sword and board damage soak).

[Misterwhisper]

Hi all,
One of my main groups is the kind that thinks of playing a (n arcane) spellcaster as a slow progression from magic missiles to fireballs, to meteor swarm (although we never get that high a level). At some point, I would like to try to show them how useful non-direct-damage spells are to wizards/sorcs/etc. I was thinking of playing a wizard or sorcerer (maybe bard) and deliberately not picking up any direct damage spells (except maybe SCAG cantrips if I end up supplementing by being a gish build).

What race/class/spells would you do to do that best? We're doing dungeon of the mad mage, so it will be fairly dungeon-crawly. The party (other than my ranger, who would have to die if I were to be doing this) is an high elf evoker (naturally), high elf swashbuckler rogue, human pact of blade chainlock, and a half-orc Eldritch Knight (low int) fighter (sword and board damage soak).

You group has no healing in a rather hard dungeon. You are all kind of screwed.

On topic, illusionists are great and so are abjurers.

[RogueJK]

There are plenty of useful non-damaging spells for your Level 1+ spells. But I think you'll struggle with things to do in combat besides burning through all your spells slots, since there aren't really many viable non-damaging cantrips that are combat-applicable.

So if you're not going to be Attacking or dealing damage with a cantrip, you'll spend a number of rounds in combat doing little else other than potentially hiding, dodging, or maybe using the Help action, while conserving spell slots.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hi all,
One of my main groups is the kind that thinks of playing a (n arcane) spellcaster as a slow progression from magic missiles to fireballs, to meteor swarm (although we never get that high a level). At some point, I would like to try to show them how useful non-direct-damage spells are to wizards/sorcs/etc. I was thinking of playing a wizard or sorcerer (maybe bard) and deliberately not picking up any direct damage spells (except maybe SCAG cantrips if I end up supplementing by being a gish build).

What race/class/spells would you do to do that best? We're doing dungeon of the mad mage, so it will be fairly dungeon-crawly. The party (other than my ranger, who would have to die if I were to be doing this) is an high elf evoker (naturally), high elf swashbuckler rogue, human pact of blade chainlock, and a half-orc Eldritch Knight (low int) fighter (sword and board damage soak).

You'd probably want to really consider healing options. Considering how squishy your team is, and how much you want to showcase how useful magic can be without dealing damage, I'd recommend a Life Cleric + Sorcerer. Abuse things like Warding Bond and Heavy Armor Master, twin Warding Bond to make your melee combatants incredibly tanky while you cast Cure Wounds on yourself. Having Heavy Armor means you'd be able to take a hit in melee combat while you let your Swashbuckler get in several hits a turn.

[da_chicken]

The usual method is to use spells that buff the party (haste, fly, enlarge person), debuff the enemy (slow, hold, charm, sleep, web, ray of enfeeblement, fear), as well as effects that divide the battle field (walls, web). That's on top of the normal utility spells (detect magic, tiny hut, knock, dispel, counter).

The primary problem is that fireball is a really, really good spell. There's very little reason not to take it at 5th level because it can deal such absurdly high amounts of damage in lots of situations.

The secondary problem is that all of the worthwhile spells that buff, debuff, or shape the battlefield all require concentration so you're limited to one at a time. It also means that you often can't have any defensive spells other than mage armor and shield.

If you go with Wizard, and they're probably the best at it, I'd go with Transmuter, Abjurer, or Diviner. Google for "Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e." Bard also works just fine, although their spell list is somewhat less directly utilitarian. Don't go with Sorcerer. Their spell lists are so narrow and spells known so small that they're all but forced to be blasters because that's all they can take that's flexible enough for most encounters.

For race, Gnome works fairly well for Wizard and Half-Elf for Bard, but really you can make any race work.

[Willie the Duck]

You group has no healing in a rather hard dungeon. You are all kind of screwed.

True, and I forgot to mention that I am currently the party healer (actually life cleric 1/ranger, which is amazing even though we don't allow goodberry or healing spirit abuse). I would probably have to continue to be a dip-cleric healer.


There are plenty of useful non-damaging spells for your Level 1+ spells. But I think you'll struggle with things to do in combat besides burning through all your spells slots, since there aren't really many viable non-damaging cantrips that are combat-applicable.

I was considering gish for just that reason.

And just generally, yes, I know that illusionists/abjurers are great. I know about Treantmonk's guides. Etc. Etc. Etc. I am asking for personal suggestions on builds and spells. Thanks!

[RogueJK]

Half-Elf, Aasimar, or Tiefling Divine Soul Sorcerer would be ideal. You'd get access to Cleric healing spells, plus both Arcane and Divine non-damaging spells.

Maybe with a 1 level dip into Hexblade Warlock for SAD CHA-based Gish purposes, with Medium Armor, Shield, and Martial Weapons. Or if you have a decent STR too, perhaps 1 level in Life Cleric for Heavy Armor, Shield, and boosted healing.

[strangebloke]

Bards have like 3 efficient damaging spells on their whole list. The question is less "What can I do without damage?" and more "What can't I do? (besides damage)"

Sorcerers can get by solely on buffs and social manipulation spells. Subtle for social manipulation, twin for buff focus, and careful if you want to drop hypnotic patterns like a boss.

'God' Wizards with a strong focus on control spells (hypnotic pattern) are some of the strongest PCs in the game.

Druids can deal damage, but they certainly don't have to, since they're basically the kings of the exploration pillar of the game.

The cleric I played cast Silence more than any other spell in the game. He was by far the most effective character at the table.

Ultimately, direct single target damage for casters is rather inefficient. AOE damage is just one way of dealing with crowds effectively; AOE control is generally a better way of doing the same thing. Why cast fireball when you have hypnotic pattern? Why cast thunderwave over sleep or faerie fire or fog cloud?

[Laserlight]

I had fun with Knowledge cleric 1 / Divination X gnome. For minor encounters, I would just cast Bless and let the sword swingers do their thing (although that party was more melee oriented than yours). If it was a more dangerous situation, I would Fireball or use Polymorph, because all my party enjoyed hearing "oh, Alyssa, you only have 4hp? Would you like me to help with that? Okay, you're a T Rex."

[SirGraystone]

I had fun with Knowledge cleric 1 / Divination X gnome. For minor encounters, I would just cast Bless and let the sword swingers do their thing (although that party was more melee oriented than yours). If it was a more dangerous situation, I would Fireball or use Polymorph, because all my party enjoyed hearing "oh, Alyssa, you only have 4hp? Would you like me to help with that? Okay, you're a T Rex."


I have a similar gnome cleric/wizard last week he casted hold person on the villain used a Portent roll of 5 to have him fails his save, and watched the rest of the group bash on the paralyzed bad guy. With spell like bless and haste to buffs your peoples, thing like hypnotic pattern or web to control the battlefield you can be more useful then mere damage dealers.

[Skylivedk]

There are plenty of useful non-damaging spells for your Level 1+ spells. But I think you'll struggle with things to do in combat besides burning through all your spells slots, since there aren't really many viable non-damaging cantrips that are combat-applicable.

So if you're not going to be Attacking or dealing damage with a cantrip, you'll spend a number of rounds in combat doing little else other than potentially hiding, dodging, or maybe using the Help action, while conserving spell slots.

Sorry, that's not true.

Carry water, and use shape water to create slippery surfaces wherever you need them (or icicle traps, or cover), minor illusion to hide traps, insinuate reinforcements (and and and and... Very versatile spell) and mold earth to create cover, dig pits etc. Create bonfire is good for control (if indirect damage is cool by you).

As for classes: druids are great at healing (healing word +healing spirit should have you covered), have mediocre damage spells (so you won't miss much) and great summoning plus control.

Hexblade / abjurer or hexblade / divine soul can really take you places as well. And of course bard is great for control, buffs and healing (and I've won encounters with silent image alone).

I don't think my gnome Illusionist has a damage spell... At all. I've a damaging cantrip (Ray of Frost) and sleep. I would have taken web and invisibility/misty step, but I think I'll go for magic mouth instead to create Faerun's first surveillance and espionage expert.