The cost of becoming a Wizard

[liquidformat]

So one thing that has always struck me as amusing but rarely talked about is just how expensive it would be to become a wizard and there for restrictive. It cost 100gp/page and each level 0 spell takes up a whole page. As such ignoring feats like Collegiate Wizard, Precocious Apprentice, Apprentice, as well as, 'training' cost; just the cost of a level one wizard spell book would be 2,300-2,600 gp. So typically only level 3 pcs or level 3-4 npcs could even afford to have a complete first level spell book without some major wealth backing their attempt to become a wizard.

This would suggest wizards and also archivists since their spell books function similarly would be relatively rare just because most people in a d&d world would be able to afford such a financial burden of becoming one. Furthermore, those that do exist would often be roped in by powerful families, groups, and governments that have the resources to support their training and advancement rather than the standard free operators of a standard campaign.

So from a world building and campaign perspective I am wondering how applying this would work. For starts it seems like wizard fluff would take a greater role as wizards aren't adventuring for their own sake but on the order of their patron. Spells as a whole would be less available and more guarded by those in control of them, and innate natural casters like sorcerers and warlocks would be seen as enemies of such organizations since their casting isn't controlled.

Any thoughts or suggestions, has anyone dabbled with this idea in their worlds and campaigns?

[noob]

So one thing that has always struck me as amusing but rarely talked about is just how expensive it would be to become a wizard and there for restrictive. It cost 100gp/page and each level 0 spell takes up a whole page. As such ignoring feats like Collegiate Wizard, Precocious Apprentice, Apprentice, as well as, 'training' cost; just the cost of a level one wizard spell book would be 2,300-2,600 gp. So typically only level 3 pcs or level 3-4 npcs could even afford to have a complete first level spell book without some major wealth backing their attempt to become a wizard.

This would suggest wizards and also archivists since their spell books function similarly would be relatively rare just because most people in a d&d world would be able to afford such a financial burden of becoming one. Furthermore, those that do exist would often be roped in by powerful families, groups, and governments that have the resources to support their training and advancement rather than the standard free operators of a standard campaign.

So from a world building and campaign perspective I am wondering how applying this would work. For starts it seems like wizard fluff would take a greater role as wizards aren't adventuring for their own sake but on the order of their patron. Spells as a whole would be less available and more guarded by those in control of them, and innate natural casters like sorcerers and warlocks would be seen as enemies of such organizations since their casting isn't controlled.

Any thoughts or suggestions, has anyone dabbled with this idea in their worlds and campaigns?

My theory is that the ink used for cantrips in first spellbooks is way cheaper.
Or there is a create spellbook spell or when you become a wizard a spellbook appear out of thin air.
So all there is left is the quite huge cost of the level 1 spells(100gp per level 1 spell)

[liquidformat]

My theory is that the ink used for cantrips in first spellbooks is way cheaper.
Or there is a create spellbook spell or when you become a wizard a spellbook appear out of thin air.
So all there is left is the quite huge cost of the level 1 spells(100gp per level 1 spell)

And yet according to RAW if a level 1 wizard were to have their spell book stolen or destroyed they would have to pay 2,315-2,615 gp to replace it...

All of the classes have some mechanical fluff in place to ignore the cost of training of a level one character (with the exception of maybe sorcerers and warlocks) but the wizard is really the only class that straight up ignores thousands of gold to work as level 1 characters with their own mechanics.

[Minion #6]

Rather cheekily, the problem is RAW solved by the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF. You are required to pay for learning the spell... except learning a spell costs nothing. It's the writing in the book that costs money.

Now, if only it was clear whether the "or" in you don't gain "a familiar or the Scribe Scroll feat" was inclusive or exclusive...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by liquidformat
This would suggest wizards and also archivists since their spell books function similarly would be relatively rare just because most people in a d&d world would be able to afford such a financial burden of becoming one.

Student loans. :smalltongue:

Seriously, I think you’re right on track with the high cost of entering the wizarding world. Some sort of debt structure would probably be the most common solution, especially since, as you point out, arcane knowledge is likely to be concentrated in some form of institution. New students would be accepted based on talent, but with the requirement that they pay back the cost of their education in money, service, rare components, or some combination thereof.


Originally Posted by liquidformat
Any thoughts or suggestions, has anyone dabbled with this idea in their worlds and campaigns?

I’ve taken it one step further, and wondered why elven arcane academies don’t control the wizarding world entirely. Since elves are longer-lived than humans, and they’re usually considered to be an older race that discovered magic first, it would make sense for elves to have made greater strides than humans in magical research, and to restrict the teaching of magic to other elves or to carefully controlled human clients. Over the centuries I would expect a concentration of power in elven institutions, to the detriment of human attempts to rival them; so the question is, how do any human institutions manage to accumulate arcane power in the face of elven opposition?

[AvatarVecna]

So one thing that has always struck me as amusing but rarely talked about is just how expensive it would be to become a wizard and there for restrictive. It cost 100gp/page and each level 0 spell takes up a whole page. As such ignoring feats like Collegiate Wizard, Precocious Apprentice, Apprentice, as well as, 'training' cost; just the cost of a level one wizard spell book would be 2,300-2,600 gp. So typically only level 3 pcs or level 3-4 npcs could even afford to have a complete first level spell book without some major wealth backing their attempt to become a wizard.

This would suggest wizards and also archivists since their spell books function similarly would be relatively rare just because most people in a d&d world would be able to afford such a financial burden of becoming one. Furthermore, those that do exist would often be roped in by powerful families, groups, and governments that have the resources to support their training and advancement rather than the standard free operators of a standard campaign.

So from a world building and campaign perspective I am wondering how applying this would work. For starts it seems like wizard fluff would take a greater role as wizards aren't adventuring for their own sake but on the order of their patron. Spells as a whole would be less available and more guarded by those in control of them, and innate natural casters like sorcerers and warlocks would be seen as enemies of such organizations since their casting isn't controlled.

Any thoughts or suggestions, has anyone dabbled with this idea in their worlds and campaigns?

On the one hand, you're not wrong. On the other hand, that's basically true of any PC class instead of NPC class - and while some PC classes are rarer than others, Warriors, Experts, and Commoners make up the vast majority of any population. If you look at the Demographics for randomly generating settlements in the DMG, you'll see that wizards are as rare as aristocrats - and, given the numbers you're showing off here, that seems about right. The example Metropolis below is the smallest possible Metropolis (which gives the PC classes the highest odds they'll get in such a settlement), it's taking averages for all of the rolls, and the only time PC outnumbers NPC is Fighters and Rogues outnumbering Aristocrats - and even then just barely: if there was just another 3000 people in this Metropolis, the aristocrats would once more outnumber the fighters and rogues.



Adept (0.764%): 191 (115 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Aristocrat (0.7%): 175 (115 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Barbarian (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Bard (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Cleric (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Commoner (84%): 21000 (20892 1st, 56 2nd, 16 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 4 6th, 4 7th, 2 8th, 2 10th, 2 12th, 2 14th, 1 16th, 1 20th, 1 24th, 1 28th)

Druid (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Expert (3.2%): 800 (692 1st, 56 2nd, 24 3rd, 4 4th, 4 5th, 8 6th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 11th, 2 12th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 21st, 1 24th)

Fighter (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Monk (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Paladin (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Ranger (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Rogue (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Sorcerer (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Warrior (4.984%): 1246 (1154 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 5th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 14th, 1 16th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Wizard (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

To summarize that, here's the approximate odds for NPCs in this average version of the tiniest metropolis: roll a d20. If you rolled a 1-17, you're a commoner. If you rolled an 18, you're a Warrior. If you rolled a 19, you're a non-Commoner non-Warrior NPC class. If you rolled a 20, you're a PC class.

EDIT: And in that same metropolis, there's 3734 Commoners, Experts, and Warriors spread throughout who have 14+Int from the dice and would make great wizards, but are never going to afford the tuition for a college or the fees for an Apprenticeship.

[Calthropstu]

Student loans. :smalltongue:

Seriously, I think you’re right on track with the high cost of entering the wizarding world. Some sort of debt structure would probably be the most common solution, especially since, as you point out, arcane knowledge is likely to be concentrated in some form of institution. New students would be accepted based on talent, but with the requirement that they pay back the cost of their education in money, service, rare components, or some combination thereof.



I’ve taken it one step further, and wondered why elven arcane academies don’t control the wizarding world entirely. Since elves are longer-lived than humans, and they’re usually considered to be an older race that discovered magic first, it would make sense for elves to have made greater strides than humans in magical research, and to restrict the teaching of magic to other elves or to carefully controlled human clients. Over the centuries I would expect a concentration of power in elven institutions, to the detriment of human attempts to rival them; so the question is, how do any human institutions manage to accumulate arcane power in the face of elven opposition?

Elven ruins robbed.
Wishing to know what the elves know.
Dominated elves forced to teach the humans.
Half elves.
Etc.

[noob]

Human wizards are quite common(relatively to how common they should be) due to massive government funding.
Anybody with 16 or more int that starts studying wizardry goes through some exams for showing they merit the funding to study further in wizardry and if they succeed their studies are financed by the government(or the king or whatever).

[Efrate]

Wizards have a late starting age and genrerally are apprentices for 10 or so years, so its likely some kind of indentured servitude. You get room board and money towards your spellbook. You likely work 6 days a week and your wages go towards using master bobs special inks. A 0 level character would make half a gold a day base, which over 500 weeks (10 years at 50 weeks a year) at 3gp a week is 1500gp, and master pays the other half or so. Or you work apprentices more than 8 hours a day and calculate that. At 12 hours a day using 1/2 gold for 8 hours if my math is correct puts you at 2500gp in that time frame which gets you there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Calthropstu
*snip*

Well, all of that assumes the elves are simply passively letting humans encroach on their turf, which—if they have the advantage in arcane talent and experience—they won’t allow without a fight. I’m thinking the elven arcane academies would have teams of agents and operatives dedicated to keeping elven lore out of unworthy human hands.


Originally Posted by noob
Anybody with 16 or more int that starts studying wizardry goes through some exams for showing they merit the funding to study further in wizardry and if they succeed their studies are financed by the government(or the king or whatever).

This is a really good idea, although the funding involved could be a problem if it’s being diverted from conventional military spending.

This would raise two issues: first, the threat of internal dissension or coup from the leading generals, who might believe that the realm is best protected by heavy investment in conventional military, rather than wasting money on students in cubicles wiggling their fingers.

Second, diverting money from conventional military could leave the kingdom vulnerable to outside attack—and you can be sure the elven academies would be sending agents provocateur to neighboring realms with exactly that goal.

[noob]

Well, all of that assumes the elves are simply passively letting humans encroach on their turf, which—if they have the advantage in arcane talent and experience—they won’t allow without a fight. I’m thinking the elven arcane academies would have teams of agents and operatives dedicated to keeping elven lore out of unworthy human hands.



This is a really good idea, although the funding involved could be a problem if it’s being diverted from conventional military spending.

This would raise two issues: first, the threat of internal dissension or coup from the leading generals, who might believe that the realm is best protected by heavy investment in conventional military, rather than wasting money on students in cubicles wiggling their fingers.

Second, diverting money from conventional military could leave the kingdom vulnerable to outside attack—and you can be sure the elven academies would be sending agents provocateur to neighboring realms with exactly that goal.
It depends massively on how much excess resources the kingdom have and also on the kind of resources it have.
If a kingdom just happens to have the right reagents to make spellbook ink(the main spent ressource) and skilled teachers in the appropriate domains the resources needed for teaching to the wizards are lower than if it was a kingdom trying to start from scratch and with no appropriate resources.
Also some magic items are Really Really Really useful for a kingdom(in fact more than any amount of swords and full plates) like amulets of protection against evil so that the king and his court are not pawn of another kingdom.
Wizards are quite the iconic crafters(nearly more so than clerics) and making an amulet of protection against evil can be done at level 1.

[liquidformat]

Adept (0.764%): 191 (115 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Barbarian (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Bard (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Cleric (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Druid (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Fighter (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Monk (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Paladin (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Ranger (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Rogue (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Sorcerer (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Wizard (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)


These percentages bug me, so much why are barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers as rare as wizards and sorcerers heck you even have higher level sorcerers and wizards. For that matter why are bards, clerics, druids and heck even adepts more common than barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers. That makes no sense...


This is a really good idea, although the funding involved could be a problem if it’s being diverted from conventional military spending.

This would raise two issues: first, the threat of internal dissension or coup from the leading generals, who might believe that the realm is best protected by heavy investment in conventional military, rather than wasting money on students in cubicles wiggling their fingers.

Second, diverting money from conventional military could leave the kingdom vulnerable to outside attack—and you can be sure the elven academies would be sending agents provocateur to neighboring realms with exactly that goal.

The fullmetal alchemist seems to be a pretty good example of this type of governmental program, potential wizards (could add other classes in here too like duskblades and beguilers too) are raised by the government then expected to be the dogs of the military or submit new research every x period of time or have their mage credentials and funding stripped. In this case, spell book taken away and those that desert are hunted down.

[gkathellar]

The old, “aging wizard and their young cleaning staff apprentices” trope works well here - would-be-wizards perform a variety of menial chores in exchange not only for instruction, but also to earn a token donation of the master’s wealth.

Mind, this is a donation, not payment, made in the interests of advancing the master’s legacy.

[AvatarVecna]

These percentages bug me, so much why are barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers as rare as wizards and sorcerers heck you even have higher level sorcerers and wizards. For that matter why are bards, clerics, druids and heck even adepts more common than barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers. That makes no sense...

Itcs based on how rare they are in cities by fluff. Monks and Paladins are the religiously-inclined that weren't quite the right fit to be clerics, while barbarians and rangers are just less comfortable in cities than other classes due to their nature ties (why druid doesn't have a similar issue, who can say). And the rules allow for barbarians and monks to have statistics closer to fighters and rogues in the appropriate settings.

And therecs other oddities in the rules, but they at least give an approximation if how rare PC classes are in general, especially high-level ones.

[Powerdork]

Why are bards, clerics, druids and heck even adepts more common than barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers. That makes no sense...

Until you remember this is a city, and socially-inclined classes like priests, entertainers and druids are naturally more common than primal warriors like rangers and barbarians, wanderers from far-off lands like monks and barbarians, and holy knights like paladins.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's not quite that bad if you consider that even an apprentice mage can earn pretty good money as soon as he learns his first cantrip.
5gp per cast isn't much by adventurer standards but compared to most commoners it's a lot. Even if you factor in living expenses that's easily a new cantrip per tenday.
Everything before that is presumably mostly theory work which doesn't have any special costs.

You just have to pick a good first cantrip to learn, like Mending or Prestidigitation. Spells that are in regular demand in a city.
If you went for the flashy stuff like Acid Splash or Ray of Ice you're probably out of luck on that front (unless it's summer for the latter).

[Malroth]

Adepts being fairly common should be no surprise, they're the class designed for Crackpot magical dabbler you buy potions from.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Metool
…socially-inclined classes like priests, entertainers and druids….

I’m not seeing how druids, who commune with nature in the furthest reaches of wilderness, are more “socially inclined” than rangers.

Also not seeing how druids are more plentiful in cities, period. For your typical druid, that's the last place they'd want to be.


Originally Posted by Metool
…and holy knights like paladins.

If anything, I’d think paladins would be more common in cities, simply because their holy orders would be likely to have temples and support facilities in cities.

This is not to say individual paladins would spend most of their time in a city; you’d expect them to be out and about, but I would expect a rotating population in their temples.


Originally Posted by sleepyphoenixx
If you went for the flashy stuff like Acid Splash or Ray of Ice you're probably out of luck on that front (unless it's summer for the latter).

And this is why so many promising young wizards are lost to the ice cream industry. :smalltongue:

[SLOTHRPG95]

Wizards have a late starting age and genrerally are apprentices for 10 or so years, so its likely some kind of indentured servitude. You get room board and money towards your spellbook. You likely work 6 days a week and your wages go towards using master bobs special inks. A 0 level character would make half a gold a day base, which over 500 weeks (10 years at 50 weeks a year) at 3gp a week is 1500gp, and master pays the other half or so. Or you work apprentices more than 8 hours a day and calculate that. At 12 hours a day using 1/2 gold for 8 hours if my math is correct puts you at 2500gp in that time frame which gets you there.

Where are you getting the 5 sp/day figure? The DMG puts an average wage for an unskilled laborer at 1 sp/day, so even if room and board are free and you work every day of the week (studying on top of that), that's a paltry 365 gp after a decade. That's not even enough to cover the cost of four cantrips. This is of course assuming that the starting spells aren't all scribed for free, which they conceivably might be (from the SRD):


Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level.

This is obviously meant to cover the two spells gained for free at each level after 1st, but might also apply to some/all of the spells acquired when reaching 1st level, which is itself a new level. Whether that'd apply to just the three 1st-level spells of your choice, or those plus the bonus ones based on Int, or all those PLUS all the cantrips, is open to interpretation. Barring the last one, though, there's still some massive subsidy going on from master to apprentice, unless the master is also being paid by the apprentice's family/friends in cash or in favors. This would in fact not be uncommon for mundane apprenticeships from the late medieval through the early modern eras (at least in the UK and her colonies). This'd also line up the expected age of a 1st-level Wizard rather well: mundane apprentice indentured from ages 14-21, wizard's apprentice from 12*-22. Since magic is probably more complex than the average artisan's craft, it makes sense that even if you started slightly younger, you'd finish slightly later (keeping in mind that 22 is indeed the average starting age for a 1st-level human Wizard).

What I find potentially more interesting is the cost of a formal magical education. Pulling one example from Complete Arcane, and the other from Tome and Blood, we have the following tuition plans:

1) 200 gp/month for the period of study;
2) A one-time 300 gp registration initiation fee, AND

(a) an additional 60 gp/semester tuition, AND
(b) one animated corporeal undead/semester, donated to the university, AND
(c) your immortal soul, if your GPA is near the bottom of your (graduating?) class.


Now, assuming two semesters per year in either case, each a four-month term (spaced w/ a one-month break and a 3-month break), you're looking at a cost of either:

1) 1,600 gp/year;
2) 300 gp + 730** gp/year + maybe your soul.

Either way, even if you only start your studies at 14 (like a mundane apprentice) and you finish them at 17 (minimum starting age for human Wizard), you're providing a competitive market price for training an 18 INT student who'll probably bring prestige/notoriety to their alma mater. If you instead take 'til age 20 to finish (perhaps typical of a 15 INT student), you're covering the costs of your spellbook, the costs of feeding and housing you, and the typical costs of running the institution. If you're just some random lord's third or fourth son with, say, 12 INT, you're either subsidizing the talented students as you take over a decade to graduate, or you're providing your immortal soul. A win either way.

*This is using your assumption of a 10-year apprenticeship being average.
**60 gp + 25 gp onyx + 280 gp to a grad student/post-doc Wizard to cast Animate Dead, doubled for the number of semesters per year.

[noob]

And this is why so many promising young wizards are lost to the ice cream industry. :smalltongue:
cone of cold is a very useful spell and more than one wizard used wish to create ice cream.

[Vizzerdrix]

You just have to pick a good first cantrip to learn, like Mending or Prestidigitation. Spells that are in regular demand in a city.
If you went for the flashy stuff like Acid Splash or Ray of Ice you're probably out of luck on that front (unless it's summer for the latter).

I bet tanners would pay for an acid splash or two if they wanted to make some particularly supple leathers, or work a tough monster hide. Masons would be happy paying for a ray of ice on water poured into a crack in large stonework to help break large rocks up, or it could be used to make ice.

I wonder what spells one would pick to help pay off student loans? Like say new wizards wern`t allowed to adventure until they had payed their loan off, what ways would they select?

[Efrate]

Considering mages are literate I would not count them as unskilled laborers. I thought I read somewhere that they learn to make special papers inks etc. to be used in their magecraft. If nothing else they can do great work as scribes. I went with 1gp a day for a classed character, then 0 levels getting half of that. I would have to look at apprentice level character sections again though.

[rel]

My reasoning was always been that wizards know of a free method of spell scribing however, the free method takes longer, is incredibly boring and overuse of said methods are rumored to stunt your magic. As such wizards are careful to limit themselves to only scribing cantrips and a small selection of 1st level spells during their training and thereafter only 2 spells whenever they level up.

Consider the following example:

While on adventure for the last month Bob the wizard traveled to the dungeon of dread and explored it. During this time Bob gained 3 levels (1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 3 to 4).

As part of leveling up Bob gained two level 1 and 4 level 2 spells normally costing 1000gp. We know Bob spent all his money before leaving town and all he found in the dungeon was weapons, armour and trade goods unrelated to the scribing of spells (exotic furs, fine vases and rare coloured glass beads).

Thus a mechanism exists to scribe a spell without paying the exorbitant ink fees levied by the scriveners guild; Wizards do it all the time.
That same method is employed by apprentice wizards preparing their starting spell book during their backstory.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Considering mages are literate I would not count them as unskilled laborers. I thought I read somewhere that they learn to make special papers inks etc. to be used in their magecraft. If nothing else they can do great work as scribes. I went with 1gp a day for a classed character, then 0 levels getting half of that. I would have to look at apprentice level character sections again though.

Even if they were being paid at the same rate as scrivners, that's still a far cry from 5 sp per day. At the going rate of 3 sp/day, they'd still make just barely more than 1,000 gp over the course of a decade. Admittedly, a lot better than 365 gp, but still heavily subsidized. However, if they had even a handful of ranks in a Craft (or Profession) skill, things drastically shift. Even a paltry +4 in a trained craft is enough to earn a PC 7 gp/week according to the PHB. And hitting that is pretty trivial for an Int-based character, especially if they're playing to a racial strength (eg: alchemy with gnomes). You might have a middling gnome apprentice using their master's lab tools to make as much as 10 gp/week, at which point not only are they paying to cover any real costs of their education, they're making enough that they should really be getting a stipend in order to incentivize them to keep up their magical studies.

[tadkins]

I’m not seeing how druids, who commune with nature in the furthest reaches of wilderness, are more “socially inclined” than rangers.


Lots of Urban Druids in the world maybe?

[Vizzerdrix]

Lots of Urban Druids in the world maybe?

I picture druids working at temples to nature gods, or maintaining parks, running animal shelters, and maintaining the wilds near cities.

[tadkins]

I picture druids working at temples to nature gods, or maintaining parks, running animal shelters, and maintaining the wilds near cities.

Yup that works. Also, who knows how many alleycats and pigeons in the city are actually druids just playing pranks?

[legomaster00156]

On the one hand, you're not wrong. On the other hand, that's basically true of any PC class instead of NPC class - and while some PC classes are rarer than others, Warriors, Experts, and Commoners make up the vast majority of any population. If you look at the Demographics for randomly generating settlements in the DMG, you'll see that wizards are as rare as aristocrats - and, given the numbers you're showing off here, that seems about right. The example Metropolis below is the smallest possible Metropolis (which gives the PC classes the highest odds they'll get in such a settlement), it's taking averages for all of the rolls, and the only time PC outnumbers NPC is Fighters and Rogues outnumbering Aristocrats - and even then just barely: if there was just another 3000 people in this Metropolis, the aristocrats would once more outnumber the fighters and rogues.



Adept (0.764%): 191 (115 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Aristocrat (0.7%): 175 (115 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Barbarian (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Bard (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Cleric (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Commoner (84%): 21000 (20892 1st, 56 2nd, 16 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 4 6th, 4 7th, 2 8th, 2 10th, 2 12th, 2 14th, 1 16th, 1 20th, 1 24th, 1 28th)

Druid (0.624%): 156 (80 1st, 40 2nd, 8 3rd, 12 4th, 4 5th, 2 7th, 4 8th, 2 9th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16, 1 17th)

Expert (3.2%): 800 (692 1st, 56 2nd, 24 3rd, 4 4th, 4 5th, 8 6th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 11th, 2 12th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 21st, 1 24th)

Fighter (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Monk (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Paladin (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Ranger (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 6 7th, 2 8th, 1 13th, 2 14th, 1 15th)

Rogue (0.752%): 188 (96 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 13th, 1 15th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Sorcerer (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

Warrior (4.984%): 1246 (1154 1st, 48 2nd, 16 3rd, 8 4th, 8 5th, 2 7th, 2 8th, 2 9th, 2 10th, 1 14th, 1 16th, 1 18th, 1 20th)

Wizard (0.496%): 124 (64 1st, 32 2nd, 16 4th, 4 7th, 4 8th, 1 13th, 1 14th, 1 15th, 1 16th)

To summarize that, here's the approximate odds for NPCs in this average version of the tiniest metropolis: roll a d20. If you rolled a 1-17, you're a commoner. If you rolled an 18, you're a Warrior. If you rolled a 19, you're a non-Commoner non-Warrior NPC class. If you rolled a 20, you're a PC class.

EDIT: And in that same metropolis, there's 3734 Commoners, Experts, and Warriors spread throughout who have 14+Int from the dice and would make great wizards, but are never going to afford the tuition for a college or the fees for an Apprenticeship.
Slightly off-topic, but I can see the level 16 Sorcerer and level 16 Wizard having a fierce rivalry for control of magical institutions in this city.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Even if they were being paid at the same rate as scrivners, that's still a far cry from 5 sp per day. At the going rate of 3 sp/day, they'd still make just barely more than 1,000 gp over the course of a decade. Admittedly, a lot better than 365 gp, but still heavily subsidized. However, if they had even a handful of ranks in a Craft (or Profession) skill, things drastically shift. Even a paltry +4 in a trained craft is enough to earn a PC 7 gp/week according to the PHB. And hitting that is pretty trivial for an Int-based character, especially if they're playing to a racial strength (eg: alchemy with gnomes). You might have a middling gnome apprentice using their master's lab tools to make as much as 10 gp/week, at which point not only are they paying to cover any real costs of their education, they're making enough that they should really be getting a stipend in order to incentivize them to keep up their magical studies.

Unless the skill in question is Craft (Spellbook) or Profession (Apprentice), an apprentice probably doesn't have time to study magic and also effectively work a full-time job on the side. However, if one assumes that an apprentice is a 0th-level wizard with CL 0, as per the "Apprentice-Level Characters" rules in the 3.0 DMG, one could extrapolate from the Spellcasting Services costs (10 × spell level × caster level per spell) that an apprentice could earn 10×1/2×1/2 = 2.5 gp each time he casts a cantrip for a customer, for which there are probably plenty of applications even for combat-focused cantrips as Vizzerdrix mentioned.

Even with just 2 cantrips/day and no 1st-level spells (only specialist apprentices get those), and even conservatively assuming that you can't find more than 4 people per week who would like or can afford cantrips cast on their behalf, that's 10 gp/week for 24 seconds of work plus travel time (less, if the customers have to come to him), definitely a better use of our budding wizard's time. Plus, it gives the amusing image of an apprentice scribing a cantrip into his spellbook, going around town casting the same cantrip for people over and over again for practice, saving up 100 gp over 40 castings to be able to scribe another cantrip, going around practicing the new one ad nauseam, and so forth.

[ericgrau]

These percentages bug me, so much why are barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers as rare as wizards and sorcerers heck you even have higher level sorcerers and wizards. For that matter why are bards, clerics, druids and heck even adepts more common than barbarians, monks, paladins, and rangers. That makes no sense...
The percentages are different in the wilderness. Hence why so few barbarians and rangers. Monks and paladins are rare more by choice than by difficulty. Few want to follow the paladin code, etc.

Druids are a bit odd. I may have seen an explanation before but I forget. Perhaps negotiating with city folk over encroachments upon nature?

[SLOTHRPG95]

Unless the skill in question is Craft (Spellbook) or Profession (Apprentice), an apprentice probably doesn't have time to study magic and also effectively work a full-time job on the side. However, if one assumes that an apprentice is a 0th-level wizard with CL 0, as per the "Apprentice-Level Characters" rules in the 3.0 DMG, one could extrapolate from the Spellcasting Services costs (10 × spell level × caster level per spell) that an apprentice could earn 10×1/2×1/2 = 2.5 gp each time he casts a cantrip for a customer, for which there are probably plenty of applications even for combat-focused cantrips as Vizzerdrix mentioned.

Even with just 2 cantrips/day and no 1st-level spells (only specialist apprentices get those), and even conservatively assuming that you can't find more than 4 people per week who would like or can afford cantrips cast on their behalf, that's 10 gp/week for 24 seconds of work plus travel time (less, if the customers have to come to him), definitely a better use of our budding wizard's time. Plus, it gives the amusing image of an apprentice scribing a cantrip into his spellbook, going around town casting the same cantrip for people over and over again for practice, saving up 100 gp over 40 castings to be able to scribe another cantrip, going around practicing the new one ad nauseam, and so forth.

The original back-and-forth was about the value of the labor provided by apprentices. I agree that if you're spending 40+ hours per week working, that doesn't exactly leave enough time for studying the theory of magic and mastering the fundamentals of its practice, especially when you factor in the need to sleep and eat and the like. With that said, I think both Efrate and I were working under the assumption that for a large portion of a decade-long apprenticeship to a wizard, especially in the early years, you're spending little of your time actually studying. Instead*, you're mostly "paying forward" at that point, working grueling hours (60+ hours/week) at mundane tasks, and having maybe 5-10 hours of actual study/instruction/practice. As the years progressed, you'd shift to less and less mundane work, and more and more of your time spent on what you actually need to become a wizard, until finally that's all you do.

*This part I claim as only my own view. I don't know what Efrate had in mind on this particular point.

[Awakeninfinity]

What about the same mechanic as from levelling; maybe it's just from they're own personal research?

Although a world where magic is institutionalized sounds interesting; my bet would be that most Sorcerers are Gishes of some degree. (Either to hide as a mudane or working as agents and bodyguards)

[shanizar]

If we assume that most wizards are part of some institution we must also consider the value of the spellbook of wizards who pass away. Many will die peacefully of old age meaning their spellbook will be recovered. The institution might also go a long way to recover the spellbooks of members who die violently.

Anyway, some of these spellbooks might go a long way to fund the starting spellbooks of new members of the institution. Just one high level spellbook will after all be able to fund a large number of level 1 wizard spellbooks.

[Malphegor]

Also on the instution front, I assume we all think of magical universities for wizards in most settings, right? Somehow your level 0 pre-wizard could afford pewter cauldrons and spellbooks and research to get those early 1st level spells on session 1, right?

Well, your wizard is going to be crippled with student debts the moment the taxmen can divine where they are and whether they are currently earning over the threshold that they have to start paying it back. It being based on medieval moneylending though, paying it back might include blood, loss of limbs, excommunication from major affiliated religions, etc.

Something to consider in longer campaigns, I suppose. You're sitting in your magic throne, dragons warming your mulled wine, and a weedy looking official comes in and holds up a notice saying you're due to pay X amount of gold plus interest over the years you've been adventuring above a certain income threshold.

[King of Nowhere]

I had an idea for a PC as a wizard that wants to break down the cost of wizardry and make magic accessible for everyone, for progress. Such wizard would take a vow of poverty and figure a way to keep a cheap spellbook as step 1. Of course i'd have to discuss details with the DM and houserule a few things. And add some limitation to the poor spellbook, i doubt people used the superexpensive inks just because they are morons.

I would like to try that character the next time i start a campaign.

Barring that, student loans are a very realistic consequence of the cost of a spellbook

[unseenmage]

Hmm, has retraining been mentioned? Sure would make surviving lower levels easier and even NPC wealth is more forgiving at higher levels.

Plod about as a not-wuzard just long enough to get your seed money then start the retraining. It's like an apprenticeship, but under your own tutelage.

[liquidformat]

Until you remember this is a city, and socially-inclined classes like priests, entertainers and druids are naturally more common than primal warriors like rangers and barbarians, wanderers from far-off lands like monks and barbarians, and holy knights like paladins.

barbarians being rare in cities, sure I will go along with that. Rangers on the other hand, really? Rangers are more based around handling certain races and tracking people down than wilderness. It would be reasonable to assume they would be as common as fighters in cities working as lawmen. Similarly there is nothing about monks that screams hobo in the woods over street hobo, if anything I would expect to see them more in the city especially considering survival isn't a class skill so they aren't exactly the best foragers... So on to paladins, large cities tend to have large temples and monastic citadels so if paladins are uncommon in cities where exactly are they supposed to be common. It sure as heck isn't in villages or out in the wild (again no survival...), many villages might have a cleric or divine adept or two but how many are going to have paladins?

And lastly are the oh so commonly found in cities, the druid, protector of urban centers everywhere and haters of nature... oh wait that is backwards....


1) 200 gp/month for the period of study;
2) A one-time 300 gp registration initiation fee, AND
(a) an additional 60 gp/semester tuition, AND
(b) one animated corporeal undead/semester, donated to the university, AND
(c) your immortal soul, if your GPA is near the bottom of your (graduating?) class.

Now, assuming two semesters per year in either case, each a four-month term (spaced w/ a one-month break and a 3-month break), you're looking at a cost of either:

1) 1,600 gp/year;
2) 300 gp + 730** gp/year + maybe your soul.

So now we are at 12,600-18,600gp for a wizarding education pushing us up to pc 6-7 or npc 10-11 wbl...

[Malphegor]

And lastly are the oh so commonly found in cities, the druid, protector of urban centers everywhere and haters of nature... oh wait that is backwards....


Urban druids are a thing for that. they're kind of weird, actually, they get a variant of wildshape where they turn into animated objects. So they're either Fantasy Transformers turning into sentient carriages and wheelbarrows or it's like Garry's mod Prop Hunt and they turn into a teapot each day for some reason.

[SLOTHRPG95]

So now we are at 12,600-18,600gp for a wizarding education pushing us up to pc 6-7 or npc 10-11 wbl...

Which is why going to university is the more expensive (but faster?) option. You basically need to come from great wealth, have a major sponsor, or accident your way into a CR 10 dragon's hoard.

[rel]

I had an idea for a PC as a wizard that wants to break down the cost of wizardry and make magic accessible for everyone, for progress. Such wizard would take a vow of poverty and figure a way to keep a cheap spellbook as step 1. Of course i'd have to discuss details with the DM and houserule a few things. And add some limitation to the poor spellbook, i doubt people used the superexpensive inks just because they are morons.

I would like to try that character the next time i start a campaign.

Barring that, student loans are a very realistic consequence of the cost of a spellbook

eidetic spellcaster + eschew materials + collegiate wizard + elven generalist

You need no spell book. You need no component pouch. You gain an obscene amount of extra spells for free whenever you level up. Quite functional even if the only things you own are a bathrobe, a towel and a pair of slippers.

[Random Sanity]

eidetic spellcaster + eschew materials + collegiate wizard + elven generalist

You need no spell book. You need no component pouch. You gain an obscene amount of extra spells for free whenever you level up. Quite functional even if the only things you own are a bathrobe, a towel and a pair of slippers.

I now have the mental image of a guy in a robe and shower hat, using a scrub-brush as a wand to throw spells from.

[unseenmage]

eidetic spellcaster + eschew materials + collegiate wizard + elven generalist

You need no spell book. You need no component pouch. You gain an obscene amount of extra spells for free whenever you level up. Quite functional even if the only things you own are a bathrobe, a towel and a pair of slippers.
Assuming those are all feats the Feats in Magic Items sidebar in arms and equipment guide would let us put them all into the few items the wizard owns too.

[rel]

I now have the mental image of a guy in a robe and shower hat, using a scrub-brush as a wand to throw spells from.

I was going for an Arthur Dent vibe but that also works :p