Barbarian Build - can someone helps me?

[MishimaRyu]

Hello guys,

My group decided to make an arena (battle royale style): 4~5 characters level 20 going all out.

Simple rules: 81 initial abilities, plus bonus level; 3.5 material only.

I choosed to make a Barbarian. After several considerations (and thanks to Eldariel for his Being Bane Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians)). Then I thought: "I should share my build with the community (both to receive guidance from more experienced players, and to serve as ideas for other players)."

So here we go...:



Race: Human (because extra feat)
Base abilities: STR 22 (18+4), DEX 14, CON 18, INT 11 (10+1), WIS 12, CHA 10

Classes: I started as Bear-Totem Barbarian (3), followed by Fighter (2), Fist of the Forest (3), Frostrager (5), Bear Warrior (1), Primeval (3), and Frenzied Berserker (3)

For feats I got:
Meagre Fortitude (flaw), Vulnerable (flaw), Reckless Rage (flaw bonus), Power Attack (flaw bonus), Frozen Berserker (human), Blazing Berserker (level 1), Toughness (Barbarian 1), Improved Grapple (Barbarian 2), Improved Disarm (level 3), Great Fortitude (Barbarian 3), Improved Unarmed Strike (Fighte 1), Cleave (Fighter 2), Endurance (level 6), Self-Sufficient (level 9), Destructive Rage (level 12), Intimidating Rage (level 15), Steadfast Determination (level 18)


My equipments may be confusing, but I'll give a try...
Manual of STR+5, DEX+5 and CON+5 (because Barbarian)
Belt of Magnificence, Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Evasion, Ring of Protection (+3), Eyes of the Eagle (+15 version), Winged Boots, Ioun Stones (Dark blue and Dusty rose - not sure if I can use two at the same time)
Hat of Disguise (to impersonate a red half-dragon or fire genasi - if succeed, they may try to do some cold damage, which Frostrager loves)
Robe of Giant Size (as Wu Jen spell "Giant Size"), Amulet of Conviction (as Cleric spell "Conviction"), Gloves of Sign (as Cleric spell "Sign")
Bracers of Natural Armor (needed to change from amulet to something else)


With all buffs, if I did not make any mistakes:
STR 22 + 04 (Rage) + 08 (Bear Form) + 01 (Regression) + 02 (Feral Power) + 16 (Primeval Form, Dire Boar) + 06 (Frenzy) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) + 05 (Manual of Gainful Exercise) + 32 (Robe of Giant Size) +02 (Reckless Rage) = 104 (+47)
DEX 14 + 04 (Feral Trance) + 02 (Bear Form) + 01 (Regression) + 02 (Feral Power) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) + 05 (Manual of Quickness of Action) - 02 (Robe of Giant Size) = 32 (+11)
CON 18 + 04 (Rage) + 04 (Bear Form) + 01 (Regression) + 02 (Feral Power) + 06 (Primeval Form) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) + 05 (Manual of Bodily Health) + 12 (Robe of Giant Size) + 02 (Reckless Rage) = 60 (+25)
INT 11 - 1 (Regression) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) = 16 (+3)
WIS 12 + 1 (Regression) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) = 19 (+4)
CHA 10 - 1 (Regression) + 06 (Belt of Magnificence) = 15 (+2)

AC 60, Fort +55, Refl +28, Will +42

HD 12d12+8d10+500 = 12 + (7*11) + (6*8) + 500 = 640 PVs

Grapple +89, Disarm +83 (to remove Ring of Freedom of Movement If nedded)

And being a Colossal Black Bear with Dire Boar traces, fists of ice and guided by the force of hate. Which can not be seen, because of the Hat of Disguise. :p



Edit: I was talking to DM, explaining about that barbarian and... I received a "bad news".
He's not sure about Bear Form and Primeval Form, becausd both works like Polymorph.
Is there any way to use both at the same time? Or the DM is wrong and both can be used?

[Kayblis]

If I get it correctly, you don't have enchantments on your natural weapons, right? How about getting a Necklace of Natural Attacks, a Fanged Ring, and/or other attack-boosting abilities? You can get an Amulet enchanted with weapon properties for natural attacks, so your Colossal Dire Bear can also deal double damage on a charge with Valorous claws, apply Sudden Stunning, get your +7 to Init with Eager and Warning, and maybe get Spell Storing to dish out an explosive, enfeebling or ennervating Bite attack in the end.

You can also use a Vest of Resistance if you ever find a more useful item for your Cloak slot.

[liquidformat]

couple of comments.

First I don't believe bear warrior bear form stacks with primeval primal form, I believe it is an either or not a both. Though I may be wrong.

Second, why are you going dire boar it is rather weak, take a look at dire lion or dire puma they are probably the best all around choices. Cave dinosaurs are also quite interesting and powerful choices.

Third, you my friend are going to need to invest in a pile of wilding clasps to have each of your equipment affect you in your primal form and possibly bear form too.

[Menzath]

Besides the mentioned wildling clasps and amulet of natural attacks and etc.

If your will save is that high, you may want to dump steadfast determination and instead look at feats that negate other possibly debilitating things.

I would have to assume that one of the other players is doing a caster of some sort with contingency, so they will always "go" first, maybe an immediate action oh no item to save the day as well.

Unless another player does a mailman or Uber charger assume it won't be damage that kills you right away, but rather save or dies, or an interesting use of Polymorph any object. Items that prevent death effects/flesh to XXXX can save you outright.

[liquidformat]

Besides the mentioned wildling clasps and amulet of natural attacks and etc.

If your will save is that high, you may want to dump steadfast determination and instead look at feats that negate other possibly debilitating things.

I would have to assume that one of the other players is doing a caster of some sort with contingency, so they will always "go" first, maybe an immediate action oh no item to save the day as well.

Unless another player does a mailman or Uber charger assume it won't be damage that kills you right away, but rather save or dies, or an interesting use of Polymorph any object. Items that prevent death effects/flesh to XXXX can save you outright.

I don't think he is counting will save correctly, base is 4 or 6 depending on whether fractional saves are in play, con replaces wis for +25, cloak of res gives 1-5 (unclear) + Conviction 2-5(bonus again unclear). Everything maxed should be 41.

[tstewt1921]

All I have to say.....because this is far superior to any of my builds.........is this build looks badass!

[Menzath]

I don't think he is counting will save correctly, base is 4 or 6 depending on whether fractional saves are in play, con replaces wis for +25, cloak of res gives 1-5 (unclear) + Conviction 2-5(bonus again unclear). Everything maxed should be 41.

Either way having to save against something or outright ignoring it, I would choose the latter.

Also what's the AC breakdown. Cause I'm fairly sure most of it is natural armor, and with that size modifier hit that touch AC is goin to be pretty low.
A well placed twined empowerd maximized Ray of stupidity(or similar) is also an instant shutdown.

[MishimaRyu]

YAY, replies... >)


If I get it correctly, you don't have enchantments on your natural weapons, right? How about getting a Necklace of Natural Attacks, a Fanged Ring, and/or other attack-boosting abilities? You can get an Amulet enchanted with weapon properties for natural attacks, so your Colossal Dire Bear can also deal double damage on a charge with Valorous claws, apply Sudden Stunning, get your +7 to Init with Eager and Warning, and maybe get Spell Storing to dish out an explosive, enfeebling or ennervating Bite attack in the end.

You can also use a Vest of Resistance if you ever find a more useful item for your Cloak slot.To be pretty honest, I just thought that having a massive STR Mod and Untamed Strike (Fist of the Forest) would be enough to hit anything.
And enhancements to damage, at that gap, would be a money loss. I mean, if I hit the same foe twice in the same round, I deal 6d8+48 for each attack, plus 1d6+8d8+70 from Rend (Frostrager). Average damage: 349.
Obvisouly, that assuming my build is correct.
Ohh, and thanks for the vest tip. ^^




couple of comments.

First I don't believe bear warrior bear form stacks with primeval primal form, I believe it is an either or not a both. Though I may be wrong.

Second, why are you going dire boar it is rather weak, take a look at dire lion or dire puma they are probably the best all around choices. Cave dinosaurs are also quite interesting and powerful choices.

Third, you my friend are going to need to invest in a pile of wilding clasps to have each of your equipment affect you in your primal form and possibly bear form too.Humm... I searched in GITPG community and found only one topic (about primeval and bear form):
giantitp .com/forums/showthread.php?140662-Primeval-Bear-warrior-does-this-stack (link broken due to low posts counter)

I looked only to STR Bonus. Dire boar gives me STR +16, DEX +0, CON +6. While Dire Lion bonus would be STR +14, DEX +4, CON +6 (yeah, more Dex, but my focus was in STR). Dire Puma numbers is +10, +6, +8; Cave dinosaurs I couldn't find.

Ohh, and thanks for the Wilding Clasps tip. ;)




Besides the mentioned wildling clasps and amulet of natural attacks and etc.

If your will save is that high, you may want to dump steadfast determination and instead look at feats that negate other possibly debilitating things.

I would have to assume that one of the other players is doing a caster of some sort with contingency, so they will always "go" first, maybe an immediate action oh no item to save the day as well.

Unless another player does a mailman or Uber charger assume it won't be damage that kills you right away, but rather save or dies, or an interesting use of Polymorph any object. Items that prevent death effects/flesh to XXXX can save you outright.Well, truth to be told: my Will is that high thanks to Steadfast Determination that gave me +25 (in place of a regular +4).

I really don't know what kind characters the other players will do, I only know about the human swordsage due to one of the participants that simple don't know how to keep his mouth shut. xD

But I'm assuming the same: someone will do a caster (either a Wizard or a Druid based). Thats why I took the Hat of Disguise, and other simple stuffs (like Ring of Evasion, and two items to bump saves).

Death-effect immunity sounds nice. I'll look if I can get it, but I'm assuming they can't do a spell with save DC THAT high.




I don't think he is counting will save correctly, base is 4 or 6 depending on whether fractional saves are in play, con replaces wis for +25, cloak of res gives 1-5 (unclear) + Conviction 2-5(bonus again unclear). Everything maxed should be 41.Well, let's check (afterall, I'm here looking for guidance too):

Will : 5 (base) + 25 (con mod) + 5 (cloak of resistance) + 5 (amulet of conviction) + 2 (rage) = 42

Base Will:
+01 - Barbarian lvl3
+00 - Fighter lvl2
+01 - Fist of the Forest lvl3
+01 - Frostrager lvl5
+00 - Bear Warrior lvl1
+01 - Primeval lvl3
+01 - Frenzied Berserker lvl3
----------

We just sum the save bonus from the classes. Maybe is that the reason our calc differ?




All I have to say.....because this is far superior to any of my builds.........is this build looks badass!hahaahaaaa
Thanks!!!!

But I'm not sure If the build is correct. Primeval x Bear Form issues.
If not, I'll kick Bear Warriors out of my build and try to get the +8 STR from something else. Suggestions? :D




Either way having to save against something or outright ignoring it, I would choose the latter.

Also what's the AC breakdown. Cause I'm fairly sure most of it is natural armor, and with that size modifier hit that touch AC is goin to be pretty low.
A well placed twined empowerd maximized Ray of stupidity(or similar) is also an instant shutdown.Here it is:

+10 - Base initial
+11 - Buffed DEX
+25 - Buffed CON (Untyped, Fist of the Forest)
+01 - Ioun Stone (Insight bonus)
+03 - Ring of Protection (Deflection)
+12 - Robe of Giant Size (Natural armor)
+05 - Bracers of Natural Armor
+02 - Bear Form (Natural armor)
+02 - Primeval, Feral Power (Natural armor)
+06 - Frostrager, Frostrage (Natural armor)
-08 - Size penalty
-02 - Barbarian, Rage (Untyped penalty)
-04 - Berserk, Frenzy (Untyped penalty)
-02 - Feat, Reckless Rage (Untyped penalty)
-01 - Flaw, Vulnerable (Untyped penalty)



Well... any ideas how I can use Primeval Form and Bear Form at the same time? I meant, if it's not possible the regular way...

[liquidformat]

Humm... I searched in GITPG community and found only one topic (about primeval and bear form):
giantitp .com/forums/showthread.php?140662-Primeval-Bear-warrior-does-this-stack (link broken due to low posts counter)

I looked only to STR Bonus. Dire boar gives me STR +16, DEX +0, CON +6. While Dire Lion bonus would be STR +14, DEX +4, CON +6 (yeah, more Dex, but my focus was in STR). Dire Puma numbers is +10, +6, +8; Cave dinosaurs I couldn't find.

Ohh, and thanks for the Wilding Clasps tip. ;)


I have never tried the stacking of primal form and bear warrior since I have never seen them as stackable, when you come down to it they are both a polimorph effect which don't stack, one replaces the other.

If you are just looking purely at str dire boar is the best choice unless you can get your dm to let you be a Smilodon in which case it is hands down your best choice. I normally go with dire lion or puma because they have better range of stat mods with cumulative +2 when you add up str+dex+con as well as 3 attacks, pounce, improved grab, and rake. Dire Puma also has climb speed and better land speed.
The cave dinosaurs are from Miniatures Handbook if I remember correctly. Anyways the two in question are Cave Triceratops [Large Str +8 Dex -2 Con +10 NA +10 speed 30' Gore(2d6) Powerful Charge, Trample(3d6)] and Cave Ankylosaurus [Large Str +10 Dex-4 Con +10 NA +17 speed 30' Tail(2d4) Trample(3d6)], they stand out as interesting choices due to having high con and NA so end up being pretty much tanks.
Another interesting choice is if you permanently increase your size to large the dragonhawk from five nations which also gives you 3 attacks and flight. If you can pickup improved grab or play around with grappling you could just pick people up and drop them from heights which is always amusing for victims without feather fall.

Another comment that will help is for most builds like this where you are shape changing having the least amount of equipment is a good idea since you can have less wilding clasps, so stacking magic up on things like a vest of resistance and disguise and whatever else will fit on it becomes a good idea.




Will : 5 (base) + 25 (con mod) + 5 (cloak of resistance) + 5 (amulet of conviction) + 2 (rage) = 42

Base Will:
+01 - Barbarian lvl3
+00 - Fighter lvl2
+01 - Fist of the Forest lvl3
+01 - Frostrager lvl5
+00 - Bear Warrior lvl1
+01 - Primeval lvl3
+01 - Frenzied Berserker lvl3
----------

ya I botched the counts going through the classes so 5 (6.6 rounded down to 6 with fractional saves) and forgot rage bonus.

[MishimaRyu]

First of all, I would like to thanks everyone who helped me to make my build better, either by pointing errors (like lacking Wilding Clasps items) or just suggesting interesting things (like Death-effect immunity - which I, unfortunately, couldn't get).

The changes I made may be signifiers, but I tried to stick to the base idea: a mf colossal barbarian who smash opponents with his bare hands.

To make things easier, I'll call previous build "Nesti" and the new build "Hadrik". Now let's down to it:



Race and Template: Unlike Nesti who favors Human Extra Feat, to Hadrik I focused in have Dwarven blood (due to Deepwarden Prestige Class).

Dwarf gives-me lots of useless things, in additional of CON +2 and CHA-2. The Blooded One Template gives-me STR +2, CON +4, INT -2, AC +2.
So, for 1 level adjustment and some dwarvish I got: STR +2, CON +6, INT -2, CHA -2, AC +2.


Classes: Here I made some changes too, because the level expent to adjustment, the Bear Warrior that I removed and the Deepwarden class. And I trade one Fighter level (that I used to get Improved Unarmed Strike) for Battle Dancer level (which gives me Improved Unarmed Strike back and Cha Mod to AC).

1 Battle Dancer
2 Fighter
3~5 Bear Totem Barbarian
6~7 Fist of the Forest
8~12 Frostrager
13~14 Deepwarden
15~17 Primeval
18~19 Frenzied Berserk


Abilities: With all buffs considered, Hadrik ended having less STR then Nesti. But, at least, the same CON (that is more impportant now).
STR 94, DEX 23, CON 60, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 22

Strentgh: 94 (+42)
18 (base) +2 (race) +4 (level up) +4 (rage) +1 (regression) +2 (feral power) +16 (primeval form) +6 (frenzy) +6 (belt of magnificence) +3 (manual of gainful exercise) +32 (robe of giant size)


Dexterity: 23 (+6)
12 (base) +4 (feral trance) +1 (regression) +2 (feral power) +6 (belt of magnificence) -2 (robe of giant size)


Constitution: 60 (+25)
18 (base) +6 (race) +4 (rage) +1 (regression) +2 (feral power) +6 (primeval form) +6 (belt of magnificence) +5 (manual of bodily health) +12 (robe of giant size)


Intelligence: 14 (+2)
8 (base) +1 (level up) -1 (regression) +6 (belt of magnificence)


Wisdom: 14 (+2)
7 (base) +1 (regression) +6 (belt of magnificence)


Charisma: 22 (+6)
14 (base) -1 (regression) +6 (belt of magnificence) +3 (tome of leadership)


Saves: Comparing with Nesti, Hadrik has the same Fort, but 1 more point in Will and 2 less in Refl. Refl will probably be more useful, but... =S

Fort +55, Refl +24, Will +43

Fortitude: +55
21 (base) +25 (con mod) +10 (items) -1 (misc)

+25 (con mod) +3 (barbarian) +0 (dancer) +2 (fighter) +3 (fist of the forest) +3 (deepwarden) +4 (frostrager) +3 (primeval) +3 (berserker) +5 (cloak of resistence) +5 (amulet of conviction) +2 (great fortitude) -3 (meagre fortitude)


Reflex: +24
8 (base) +6 (dex mod) +10 (items)

+6 (dex mod) +1 (barbarian) +2 (dancer) +0 (fighter) +3 (fist of the forest) +0 (deepwarden) +1 (frostrager) +1 (primeval) +0 (berserker) +5 (cloak of resistence) +5 (amulet of conviction)


Will: +43
6 (base) +25 (con mod) +10 (items) +2 (rage)

+25 (con mod) +1 (barbarian) +0 (dancer) +0 (fighter) +0 (fist of the forest) +3 (deepwarden) +1 (frostrager) +1 (primeval) +0 (berserker) +5 (cloak of resistence) +5 (amulet of conviction) +2 (rage)


Armor Class: Here we have an imense upgrade, as Hadrik has a ridiculous 84 AC, 24 points more then Nesti (and I already thought that AC 60 is high, for a barbarian).

Armor Class: 84
10 (base) +25 (con mod instead dex) -8 (size) +2 (blooded one) +2 (feral power) +5 (bracers) +6 (frostrage) +12 (giant size) +5 (ring of protection) +25 (fist of the forest) +6 (battle dancer) -2 (rage) -4 (frenzy) -1 (flaw)


Feats: No great differences between Nesti and Hadrik.
Flaw-1: Meagre Fortitude
Flaw-2: Vulnerable
Flaw-bonus: Power Attack
Flaw-bonus: Endurance
Dancer 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
1st level: Improved Disarm
Fighter 1: Cleave
Barbarian 1: Toughness
3rd level: Blazing Berserk
Barbarian 2: Improved Grapple
Barbarian 3: Great Fortitude
6th level: Self-Sufficient
9th level: Frozen Berserker
12th level: Destructive Rage
Deepwarden 1: Track
15th level: Intimidating Rage
Berserker 1: Die Hard
18th level: Steadfast Determination


Equipments: Added Wilding Clasps to the majority of the equipments, and removed some for-fun-****s (like Hat of Disguise).

Manual of Gainful Exercise +3
Manual of Bodily Health +5
Tome of Leadership and Influence +3
Ioun Stone: Dusty rose (+1 insight bonus to AC)
Fearsome Mask (Intimidade +14)
Eyes of the Eagle (Spot +15)
Cloak of Resistance +5
Amulet of Conviction +5
Robe of Giant Size
Bracers of Natural Armor +5
Gloves of Sign +4
Gauntlets of Mighty Fists +2
Ring of Evasion
Ring of Protection +5
Belt of Magnificence +6
Winged Boots

[liquidformat]

looks pretty good, a couple things.

- I can't tell if you placed the -2 to int and cha into your final stat counts.
- If you have a bit of money left over look at adding the monk belt abilities to your Belt of Magnificence. If you can afford it it is a great deal, increase damage, add wis to ac, and +1 AC.

[Torpin]

get some flying ability

[liquidformat]

get some flying ability

he has winged boots in equipment...

[MishimaRyu]

looks pretty good, a couple things.

- I can't tell if you placed the -2 to int and cha into your final stat counts.
- If you have a bit of money left over look at adding the monk belt abilities to your Belt of Magnificence. If you can afford it it is a great deal, increase damage, add wis to ac, and +1 AC.Well... that is embarrassing... seems I forgot to reduce the abilities. No big deal, since I made some changings in my build - again.

I was thinking about AC and STR Mod, and, or course, survive the first rounds. The drawback of this build, as it was as described above, is the low Initiative (only +8) and the standart action to assume the Primeval Form. So, that makes me uncertain of how things would be. And then, I put my brain to work and... whoala, new build arises. >)
And, as the changes are minimal this time (equipments, abilities and one feat), I will stick to 'Hadrik' name.



Equipments: Belt of Magnificence +6 and Bracers of Natural Armor +5 removed. As well the Tome of Leadership and Influence +3.
I added a Mechanus Gear (thanks Fighter level) and a Tower Shield. Both +5, and the armor enchanted with Primal Instinct spell.
That gaves me AC 24 and Initiative +5.
To recover the physical abilities from Belt of Magnificence, Vest of Bite of the Werebear (STR +16 instead +6, CON +8 instead +6, DEX +2 instead +6 - no mental enhancement). As a bonus, Natural Armor +7 (instead +5 from Bracers) and Blind-figth feat.
The new "Bracers of Combat Readiness" gives me a +6 insight bonus on Initiative.
I also upgraded the Mighty Fist from +2 to +4

Due to money issues, I lowered the Intimidate item from +14 to +13 (nothing to worry about). And changed the Spot item ta Listen item (afterall, unlike Spot, Listen is a class skill)

Manual of Gainful Exercise (STR +3)
Manual of Bodily Health (CON +5)
+5 Mechanus Gear of Primal Instinct (AC +15, Initiative +5, Survival +5)
+5 Tower Shield (AC +9)
Ioun Stone: Dusty rose (+1 insight bonus to AC)
Helm of High Listen (Listen +15)
Fearsome Mask (Intimidade +13)
Cloak of Resistance +5
Amulet of Conviction +5
Robe of Giant Size
Vest of the Werebear
Bracers of Combat Readiness +6
Gloves of Sign +4
Gauntlets of Mighty Fists +4
Ring of Evasion
Ring of Protection +5
Winged Boots

Feats: Replaced Improved Disarm for Improved Initiative (yay, +4 Initiative in order to get an AoO when trying to disarm someone).

Additional, the Aggressive Trait.

Flaw-1: Meagre Fortitude
Flaw-2: Vulnerable
Flaw-bonus: Power Attack
Flaw-bonus: Endurance
Dancer 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
1st level: Improved Initiative
Fighter 1: Cleave
Barbarian 1: Toughness
3rd level: Blazing Berserk
Barbarian 2: Improved Grapple
Barbarian 3: Great Fortitude
6th level: Self-Sufficient
9th level: Frozen Berserker
12th level: Destructive Rage
Deepwarden 1: Track
15th level: Intimidating Rage
Berserker 1: Die Hard
18th level: Steadfast Determination

Abilities: Truth to be told, all those changes would impact the character abilities. Ended STR 104, DEX 19, CON 62, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 13.


Strentgh: 104 (+47) - 10 more
18 (base) +2 (race) +4 (level up) +3 (manual of gainful exercise) +1 (regression) +4 (rage) +2 (feral power) +16 (primeval form) +6 (frenzy) +16 (vest of the werebear) +32 (robe of giant size)


Dexterity: 19 (+4) - 2 less
12 (base) +1 (regression) +4 (feral trance) +2 (feral power) +2 (vest of the werebear) -2 (robe of giant size)


Constitution: 62 (+26) - 1 more
18 (base) +6 (race) +1 (regression) +5 (manual of bodily health) +4 (rage) +2 (feral power) +6 (primeval form) +8 (vest of the werebear) +12 (robe of giant size)


Intelligence: 8 (-1) - 6 less
10 (base) -2 (race) +1 (level up) -1 (regression)


Wisdom: 8 (-1) - 6 less
7 (base) +1 (regression)


Charisma: 13 (+1) - 9 less
16 (base) -2 (Race) -1 (regression)

Initiative: +22 (!!!)


+01 - Unbuffed DEX Mod
+04 - Improved Initiative (untyped)
+04 - Gloves of Sign (untyped)
+05 - Armor of Primal Instinct (competence)
+06 - Bracers of Combat Readiness (insight)
+02 - Trait, Aggressive (untyped)

Armor Class:
40 unbuffed and 106 buffed
Touch 14/77
Flat-footed 40/106

+10/+10 - Base initial
+15/+15 - Mechanus Armor (armor bonus)
+09/+09 - Tower Shield (Shield bonus)
+00/+01 - Battle Dancer, CHA (untyped)
+00/+26 - Fist of the Forest, CON (untyped)
+00/+26 - Deepwarden, CON (Dex)
+01/+01 - Gear, Ioun Stone (insight)
+05/+05 - Gear, Ring of Protection (deflection)
+02/+02 - Template, Blooded One (natural, untyped)
+00/+07 - Gear, Vest of the Werebear (natural, enhancement)
+00/+02 - Primeval, Feral Power (natural, untyped)
+00/+06 - Frostrager, Frostrage (natural, untyped)
+00/+12 - Gear, Robe of Giant Size (natural, size)
-00/ -08 - Size (size)
-00/ -02 - Barbarian, Rage (untyped)
-00/ -04 - Berserk, Frenzy (untyped)
-01/ -01 - Flaw, Vulnerable (untyped)
-01/ -01 - Trait, Aggressive (untyped)


Hit and Damage: All buffs considered:
Bite, Colossal +62, 8d8+27
Unarmed Damage, Colossal +62/+62/+57/+52/+47, 6d8+51
Rend, Colossal +8d8+74, +1d6 of cold damage

So, if I hit the same foe twice:
Average: 78 + 78 + 113 (rend) = 269 damage

And Full Attack's average damage:
63 + 78 * 5 + 113 = 566 damage

-------------------------------------

I also wondering something...
A colossal Dire Boar or a colossal wannabe-wereboar (not sure how Primeval Form works in that matter).

How many squares I can "attack" with a single punch (or stomp)? I meant, what is the AoE from a colossal punch? large (2x2)? huge (3x3)?

[Kayblis]

There isn't an "AoE attack" from a large beast's normal attacks. All attacks are targeted. There are a few options to fix that, most of which require levels in a PrC like the War Hulk. The easiest way is to get it is to enchant your natural Claw attacks with the Whirling property(basically Whirlwind Attack 3/day, one attack that hits every single space you threaten). This is a +1 equivalent on your weapon(MIC), and can be put into a Necklace of Natural Attacks(SS). If you plan to get it at all, you should also get Warning(+5 insight) and Eager(+2 untyped) to boost your init, depending on if you can buff with Bracers of Combat Readiness before combat or not. Doesn't make much sense to be able to cast spells from items for free as buffs but not also start the combat transformed.

[Menzath]

Looks like your touch ac while rage/frenzy is up should be 20, not 14. And too bad you are so dang feat starved, parrying shield would've been nice.

Also the special property ghostward from mic can be put on your armor and shield that let's you count their enchancement bonus towards your touch AC.

[liquidformat]

So I believe you are actually loosing 3 AC by wearing armor as your battle dancer and Fist of the forest bonuses do not stack with armor...

[MishimaRyu]

There isn't an "AoE attack" from a large beast's normal attacks. All attacks are targeted. There are a few options to fix that, most of which require levels in a PrC like the War Hulk. The easiest way is to get it is to enchant your natural Claw attacks with the Whirling property(basically Whirlwind Attack 3/day, one attack that hits every single space you threaten). This is a +1 equivalent on your weapon(MIC), and can be put into a Necklace of Natural Attacks(SS). If you plan to get it at all, you should also get Warning(+5 insight) and Eager(+2 untyped) to boost your init, depending on if you can buff with Bracers of Combat Readiness before combat or not. Doesn't make much sense to be able to cast spells from items for free as buffs but not also start the combat transformed.Too bad. Would be nice to hit two foes with a single attack. But it's ok.
Also, Savages Species is not allowed. I couldn't find "Eager", and I already using Insight Bonus (+6)... they do stack? I think no.



Looks like your touch ac while rage/frenzy is up should be 20, not 14. And too bad you are so dang feat starved, parrying shield would've been nice.

Also the special property ghostward from mic can be put on your armor and shield that let's you count their enchancement bonus towards your touch AC.Yeah, lots of feats wanted. But, well, can't have all we want. XD
And I confess that I used the myth-weaver to AC Calc, but I probably messed things up. Can you help with the Touch AC breakdown?



So I believe you are actually loosing 3 AC by wearing armor as your battle dancer and Fist of the forest bonuses do not stack with armor...Yeah, they don't stack.
BUT in Primeval Form they merge, so I'm not wearing it. That's not what Wilding Clasps is about?

[liquidformat]

Yeah, they don't stack.
BUT in Primeval Form they merge, so I'm not wearing it. That's not what Wilding Clasps is about?
AFB so will have to recheck, however, if I am remember correctly anything with a Wilding Clasp doesn't merge with you when you change shape and maintains its body slot thereby making it usable in the new form.
There is a +1 mod in Complete Adventurer that allows your armor to be used in wild shape (beast hide or something like that) and I believe that one 'might work' as if I am remembering correctly it turns it into NA but will have to check, also that one is only a 'might work' as that would take some dm approval...

[MishimaRyu]

AFB so will have to recheck, however, if I am remember correctly anything with a Wilding Clasp doesn't merge with you when you change shape and maintains its body slot thereby making it usable in the new form.
There is a +1 mod in Complete Adventurer that allows your armor to be used in wild shape (beast hide or something like that) and I believe that one 'might work' as if I am remembering correctly it turns it into NA but will have to check, also that one is only a 'might work' as that would take some dm approval...Sorry, but I have no idea what "AFB" means. =X

Either way, I made some digging and... I misunderstood Wild Clasps with Wild enchantment.


The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.

Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus.

The bad news is... I have Primeval Form, not Wild Shape. They are similar, but not the same.

The primary ability of the primeval is the supernatural ability to assume an alternate form. This functions similarly to the druid's wild shape ability, except the alternate form chosen must be selected when the character takes his first level of primeval and cannot be changed after that.

I do not mind getting Wild instead Wilding Clasps for both armor and Shield. I just don't know IF Primeval Form is, somehow, allowed to Wild enchantment.

Beastskin (Complete Adventurer) in the other hand, don't help me, since I'll continuing to wearing the armor (and, with that, receiving the armor penalties).

I'll ask the DM (about Primeval Form working with Wild Enchantment), but have any material before hand might help. Any suggestios?

[liquidformat]

AFB= away from books. Anyways I think it was wild I was thinking of and the wording of the enhancement makes it questionable specifically the line "While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen" which suggests that it is still there just can't be seen.

I am actually more worried about whether wild stacks with abilities that don't work with armor more than I am about primeval form. feats like extra wild shape, fast&swift wild shape, and Primeval Wild Shape stack with primeval form so I don't see any reason why magic items made for wild shape wouldn't.

[Menzath]

Geez shows how tired I've been. I fudged up on your touch ac, should be 27.
The best way to make sure you don't need a wild/wildling clasps for your shield, is just to make it animated.

So, the good thing about fist of the forest AC bonus is that it functions like the monk ability. It's not an armor bonus just a flat ac bonus. That you lose when wearing armor or using a shield.

But you can still wear bracers of armor with no issue. And you can arguably buy armor bonuses on those, much like an amulet of natural attacks.
Even if the wild armor quality were to work, you would still be "wearing" the armor, it just is not visible.

And calculating ac can be a minor headache when you have a dozen or more different bonuses. Just something to check a few times over to make sure of.

And even though the book only wants 3 ac numbers; norm/FF/touch. I like to generate a 4th, Wich is FFT. You may not need it in an arena fight, but in a normal game it comes into play more times than you would think.

Side note, would dancing Spike guantlets be that good for you? I really have no idea. If you could free action turn them on that'd be the best. If not I suppose it would be better to just charge and face smash.