Mixed feelings projected ward Abjurer. Thoughts?

[Brenoli]

Hi all,

I am very interested in making an abjurer wizard (deep gnome with Svirv magic at 4 for continuous full ward before combats).

The ward is obviously great for upping the low HP a wizard naturally has and it helps maintaining concentration. This to me is the main selling point. Sure, the level 10 and 14 abilities are great too, but it takes literally years to get there, if ever, so I do not want to focus on them too much.

Now at 6 you can use it on others, but I have mixed feelings about that to be honest. Sure, it can be very powerful, but using it that way can easilly deplete your ward. In our campains party members frequently go down, so if I were to use it on them, than I feel it is only beneficial for others. Sure, group thinking blabla, I know, but I want to have the benefit of not being to squishy and maintaining concentration as well.

I fear though that if they know I can protect them that way, that they basically assume I always will and will find it offensive if I do not and potentially let them go down...

Anyone else feel the same?

More in general; How do you people deal with abilities that are great party wise, but do not always want to use on others?

[Zhorn]

A bit cheesy, but if you don't have a use for your reaction and want to make it known that your arcane ward is unavailable, hold spells with guaranteed triggers rather than casting immediately during your action. Then even if a party member wanted to rely on your ward, it would be clear that you are literally incapable of using it as your reaction is already locked in. Not the most optimal method, but the goal isn't aiming for the most optimal use of the ability.

In all seriousness, every ability is only as valuable as its potential to be used is. The ward is nice to have at full, but those hitpoints have zero value unless they are actively absorbing damage. If your wizard is often the target of attacks, then yes holding onto the ward for yourself is a high value strategy. If your party is doing a good job of keeping enemies from hitting their glass cannon, then the ward has very little value unless it is used where the damage is more active (being the other party members).

[Crushgrip]

The easiest explanation for your party is that you will sometimes need to save your reaction for those Counterspells (especially as an ABJ Wiz). Also, the best way to "heal" in 5th ed is to stop damage from happening in the first place. With your ward, you can use your reaction to project the ward on one round, then cast your non-detection or counterspell/dispel magic/banishment and heal your ward. This works great if your guy can stay out of combat. I can see your reservation but I have gotten some great use on my character (Cleric 1 / ABJ Wizard 7) by projecting the ward on those critical hits to soak up some of the damage. Twice now, the ward was the difference in the warded character staying alive instead of dropping to 0 hp.

YMMV, but I have enjoyed the mechanic of the ward on my character so far. Playing a Deep Gnome and having access to Non-Detection, you can be using your ward almost every combat since you can heal the ward up out of combat all day long. If you are not fighting any casters and can stay out of combat, your ward will be a great "heal" for any combat!

[BigPixie]

If you want a tank caster then be a valor bard with a 3 level Barbarian Bear totem dip.:smallsmile:
Not to stomp on your idea:smallbiggrin:

[Bloodcloud]

Simple: tell your teammate not to assume you'll ward them as soon as damage comes their way. Establish priorities, and anlyse the situation.

If you are maintaining a big concentration spell, keeping the ward up might be very valuable, especially if the enemy has way to target you.

Counterspelling probably takes priority to projecting your ward.

If one of your tanky friend is full hp and taking a small hit, it might not be worth projecting, but if your rogue is low on hp and being hit by someting big, it could be the difference between life and death.

So, play it smart I guess.

[Callak_Remier]

Im playing as an 8th lvl Abjurer currently i have used my projected ward ability a total of 3 times for clutch plays.
The range is often an issue.
Honestly as a damage mitigation it isn't that great. I find its better used to help protecting other casters maintain concentration

[Man_Over_Game]

Honestly, the best thing to do is to only use the Ward when it actually makes a difference.



Being Attacked
You
Ally


Fatally
Yes
Yes


Holding Conc.
Yes
Yes



Ward at Max
Yes
Yes


Neither
No
No



Characters have Hit Die they can use to heal from damage. Otherwise, the only thing that should be prevented is someone's life dropping to 0 or someone losing Concentration. Explain that to your party, and it's a pretty obvious tactical choice. However, rather than using the Ward for yourself, it'd be better to use things like Shield to prevent the damage altogether while refreshing your Ward for another hit against you or your ally.

I understand being selfish, but the Abjurer is literally the Wizard's version of a healer, and probably isn't best suited for a selfish playstyle (vs an Enchanter/Bladesinger/War Mage/Evoker).

I'm not saying you shouldn't be selfish (hell, that's all that the Vengeance Paladin is vs. every other Paladin), but I AM saying you shouldn't be a selfish Abjurer.

[OverLordOcelot]

You need to remind people that each person plays their own character, no one is an NPC. Lots of characters have healing and defensive abilities, but that doesn't mean that you're now obligated to play as a heal/ward bot and just throw it on them automatically. Warding someone else is circumstantial, and there are definitely times when you should do it, but it's nowhere near automatic.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

You don't get a choice when the damage comes your way. The ward automatically affects the caster for as long as it has HP remaining, without any option to turn it off.

[BlackRose]

I've always loved that the abjuration wizard essentially makes your d6 HD a d10, even if it can make the archetype a little boring sub 10 (although I find it hard to be bored playing a wizard in the first place.

I agree with the notion that your ward is best used tanking for others only when you are not in imminent danger. I prefer to save it's hit points for when it can save an ally from being downed, prevent their concentration from being disrupted (helpful if someone would need to make a save against falling out of the sky when flying), and a few other fringe benefits that prevent further calamity based on damage. For example, preventing them from having to make a saving throw from damage riders like poison (your dm may not rule in your favor on this though).

As was previously stated the range can be an issue, I generally try to stay at the edge of the range when possible just in case an instance pops up where I have to throw it out for an ally. One other small benefit of note is that you can use it to save your low hp mount or familiar if needed.

[Zhorn]

Another consideration is how often you are casting abjuration spells to recharge the ward. Granted it is a very slim selection of combat applicable spells, especially at low levels, but it is still potential extra hit points to utilize. If the shield is already at full, you're not getting the same value out of those spells compared to getting that bonus recharge effect on a used ward.

Also, noticing the Svirfneblin Magic feat you intend to take at lv4, do you know if your DM will allow you to spam that out of combat, or will that be treated as a single use since it will be active on you from the first cast, lasts 8 hours, and the racial specifies you cast it on yourself.

[Sigreid]

You could remind the other players that their characters are unlikely to know how the ward works, and your character is unlikely to tell them.

From an optimization standpoint, using it to keep the tank in the fight and reduce the healing needed makes the most sense. But if I think of myself as a 6th level abjurer I can't honestly say I'm certain I'd use it on others. I may be to scared to weaken my own defense.

Edit: Incidentally, if I'm the tank and I find that you're regularly protecting me like this, I'm making protecting you job 1. Protecting the healer just became job 2...

[BlackRose]

Also, noticing the Svirfneblin Magic feat you intend to take at lv4, do you know if your DM will allow you to spam that out of combat, or will that be treated as a single use since it will be active on you from the first cast, lasts 8 hours, and the racial specifies you cast it on yourself.

Ya I imagine most DMs would not allow this to fly. I'm curious if AL has taken an official stance on this or the mage armor spam on warlock (which is more acceptable RAW)

[Sigreid]

Ya I imagine most DMs would not allow this to fly. I'm curious if AL has taken an official stance on this or the mage armor spam on warlock (which is more acceptable RAW)

Well, the feat spell does say at will, not at will as long as you don't already have that effect going.

[Zhorn]

if I'm the tank and I find that you're regularly protecting me like this, I'm making protecting you job 1. Protecting the healer just became job 2...

Hah. Then the healer, being jealous of the tanks affections drawn elsewhere, starts setting up more elaborate and powerful buffs and defenses on the tank trying to win them back. Slowly the campaign devolves into a harem style plot with the tank as the central protag...
sorry, was reading http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?290243-High-School-Harem-Comedy-(Game-System-PEACH) in the homebrew earlier... think it influenced me a bit..

[Sigreid]

Hah. Then the healer, being jealous of the tanks affections drawn elsewhere, starts setting up more elaborate and powerful buffs and defenses on the tank trying to win them back. Slowly the campaign devolves into a harem style plot with the tank as the central protag...
sorry, was reading http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?290243-High-School-Harem-Comedy-(Game-System-PEACH) in the homebrew earlier... think it influenced me a bit..

Hehe, I learned playing a shaman in EQ2 that blocking damage before it hits > than healing damage that has happened.

[BlackRose]

Well, the feat spell does say at will, not at will as long as you don't already have that effect going.

Right, but because of the way the spells are written I could see someone using that as an excuse to disallow multiple activations of nondetection. Saying RAW was the wrong way to phrase it though

[Sigreid]

Right, but because of the way the spells are written I could see someone using that as an excuse to disallow multiple activations of nondetection. Saying RAW was the wrong way to phrase it though

Yeah, if the DM is bothered there's lots of ways to say "Don't be a #$%#"

[Brenoli]

Thank you all for the feedback. I'll try to stay out of range (what I was planing to do anyhow) and only use it in some dire situations.

[Blood of Gaea]

Save it for when someone would actually be downed from damage, as well as to protect yourself. It's fair to not play an absolutely selfless PC.

[ChiefBigFeather]

I‘m playing an abjuration wizard. My ward HP are (mostly) mine simply because me concentrating on that wall of force/hypnotic pattern is what decides the fight.

[djreynolds]

I've used arcane ward all the time. You will find sometimes your spell selection vs particular foes... sucks.

Fire resistance, etc. So I had to buff my team members who were actually damaging the enemy.

It's situational to be sure. In one battle I placed mirror image on myself, protection from evil on the barbarian, and stood next to him(pre scag) and used my staff. The barbarian and the rogue killed the demon, while the cleric and my wizard tried to mitigate the damage.

It was a great battle. Arcane ward really helped out. Great ability

[Blood of Gaea]

I've used arcane ward all the time. You will find sometimes your spell selection vs particular foes... sucks.

Fire resistance, etc. So I had to buff my team members who were actually damaging the enemy.

It's situational to be sure. In one battle I placed mirror image on myself, protection from evil on the barbarian, and stood next to him(pre scag) and used my staff. The barbarian and the rogue killed the demon, while the cleric and my wizard tried to mitigate the damage.

It was a great battle. Arcane ward really helped out. Great ability
... You know you don't have to pick only abjuration (or even a majority) spells, right? There's no reason for your spell selection to be any worse than anyone else's.