5th level Walock Blade pact options.

[MThurston]

So hit level 5 last night.

Cantrip
GFB
EB
True Strike (Worthless so far, have never uses it.

1st
Hex
Hellish Rebuke
Arms of Hadar

2nd
Misty Step
Mirror Image

Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Devils Sight

5th level options
1 spells learned and can pick 3rd level
1 invocation

My idea
Thunder Step
Thirsty Blade


Any suggestions on spells, invocations or swapping an invocation?

I have a sentient Morningstar that gives me war caster and acts like a focus.

The weapon is not a +1 but acts like a magical weapon for doing damage. I can not reshape it.

[bid]

1 spells learned and can pick 3rd level
Don't forget you can replace a known spell and have two 3rd spells.

[MThurston]

Don't forget you can replace a known spell and have two 3rd spells.

3rd level I think is junk for warlocks. But willing to take suggestions.

[Teaguethebean]

Make sure to pick up thirsting blade. It effectively is extra attack on your warlock

[MilkmanDanimal]

3rd level I think is junk for warlocks. But willing to take suggestions.

I absolutely love 3rd level for Warlocks; Counterspell is always a great choice, and Dispel Magic, Fly, and Major Image have so many possible uses. Hypnotic Pattern can lock down a bunch of people, Fear can clear out a room, Hunger of Hadar can give you some seriously creepy battlefield control options.

IMO, 3rd has the best set of spells for Warlocks, just due to the number of great options. I'm less enthused by most 4th/5th level spells than 3rd.

[Willie the Duck]

So hit level 5 last night.
Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Devils Sight

5th level options
1 spells learned and can pick 3rd level
1 invocation

My idea
Thunder Step
Thirsty Blade

Your ideas are sound. I might consider swapping out a spell for Hypnotic Pattern, which at your level I feel is stronger than the spells you have, but more situational (so it is a gamble).

Only suggestion I'd have is see if you can convince your DM to let you use your spell change time to swap out True Strike. That really is a noobie trap that shouldn't be in there as-is.

Good luck!

[RogueJK]

Make sure to pick up thirsting blade. It effectively is extra attack on your warlock

This. Extra Attack is the primary reason for going Bladelock. Grab it as soon as you hit Warlock5. Just understand that you'll be using the Attack Action for 2x attacks now, instead of using GFB for 1x attack. Save GFB for your War Caster Opportunity Attacks.


As for spells, I'd drop Arms of Hadar, and pick up Counterspell and Fly. Or perhaps drop Misty Step and pick up Fly and Thunder Step, if your party has another caster who can Counterspell.

(If we knew your Patron, that might change the spell recommendations.)


And yes, sadly, True Strike is worthless. It's the ultimate Trap Cantrip, and only gets worse if you have more than one attack. Too bad you can't swap out cantrips, unless your DM is just feeling extra generous.

[Brotherbock]

I mean...I'm surprised to be the one saying it, because it's the classic "of course, sigh, the Warlock took that combo" kind of idea.

But you have Devil's Sight, and don't have Darkness. Just sayin.

[BigPixie]

Get Spider Climb&Thirsting Blade. Be a Mobile Monster. (Oh did I forget Expeditious Retreat:smalltongue:)

[RogueJK]

Why just climb when you could fly? :smallwink:

(Fly's movement speed is faster too. And Fly also scales with your Warlock spells slots to be able to affect more party members, whereas Spider Climb doesn't.)

[Bloodcloud]

Whats your patron?

[Keravath]

Counterspell is a great spell but situational and it is best on a character with more spell slots. Your warlock only has two. One is probably spent on whatever spell you usually use in combat (e.g. hex, darkness) which leaves one spell slot. If you are the only character in your party that has counterspell it migth be worth it ... otherwise there are better 3rd level options.

Fly is a great utility spell.
Blink (if you are a hexblade or fey) can be a lifesaver as long as you aren't supposed to be the main tank. Half the time you won't be on the field to suffer from the attacks and spells of the opposition ... of course it means that your team mates get targeted and that may or may not be a good thing.
Fireball (if you are a fiend warlock) can be an interesting choice.
Hypnotic Pattern can be encounter changing.

You should ask your DM to swap True Stike .. it generally isn't useful.

Personally, I don't really like Hellish Rebuke or Arms of Hadar just due to the scarcity of spell slots. I usually find that I have better choices to cast with my spell slots. They aren't bad spells but with only 2 slots/short rest I am usually looking for bigger effects since I will usually have 1 spell/encounter on average up to level 10 unless I use all my resources (only 2 spells) in one fight.

Also, since you have devil's sight ... Darkness is a must :) (or at least strongly recommended). Darkness can prevent gaze attacks (e.g. basilisks, vampires etc) as well as prevent targeting of spells that require the caster to see their target (e.g. hold person and a lot of others). It also generally doesn't interfere with your team mates that much unless they have common ways to create advantage - barbarian reckless attack is probably the best example of that. This is because not seeing your target and your target not seeing you cancel out in terms of advantage/disadvantage leaving most attack rolls a straight roll.

What kind of warlock is the character? Hexblade?

[MThurston]

Whats your patron?

Hexblade Is my patron.

[Brotherbock]

You should ask your DM to swap True Stike .. it generally isn't useful.


Warlocks don't have to ask :) Just have to wait til next level.

[RogueJK]

Warlocks don't have to ask :) Just have to wait til next level.

No. Warlocks and other similar casters can choose swap out a Level 1+ spell when they gain a new level. But no caster can swap out Cantrips. Once chosen, they're permanent, RAW. Your DM may choose to allow it, though.

Note that the option to swap out spells when you gain levels is listed under the header "Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher". It also says that the spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots. Cantrips don't use spell slots.


In addition, Jeremy Crawford has specifically stated this more than once:


The sorcerer's Spellcasting trait lets you replace a sorcerer spell you know when you reach a new level in the class. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots, which means it can't be a cantrip; cantrips don't use spell slots.

and


Learning a cantrip is typically permanent. A DM could come up with a story-based way to replace one w/ another.

[Brotherbock]

No. Warlocks and other similar casters can choose swap out a Level 1+ spell when they gain a new level. But no caster can swap out Cantrips. Once chosen, they're permanent, RAW. Your DM may choose to allow it, though.

Note that the option to swap out spells when you gain levels is listed under the header "Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher".

In addition, Jeremy Crawford has specifically stated this more than once:



and

Crawford has stated, against the rules, that cantrips can't be swapped? I mean...okay. Cantrips are spells, they are under the "Spell List" of each class, not listed as a separate thing other than 'spells'. The Warlock text says for example under slots that you must use a slot to cast "one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher", a qualification that would not be needed if spells only were things of 1st level and higher. The chapter on spells, under 'What is a Spell', indicates specifically that cantrips are spells, several times. And Warlock says you can swap out "one of the warlock spells you know". Seems clear, doesn't specify 'spells of 1st level or higher'.

I don't doubt you that he's said that. I didn't know he had, and frankly I'd just ignore that if I was the GM. It's one thing to clarify ambiguous rules, it's another to rewrite rules that are not remotely ambiguous. I guess the Rules As Written in the PHB are now a house rule for me :smallannoyed:

[Willie the Duck]

Crawford has stated, against the rules, that cantrips can't be swapped?

That's cute. Look, I'm against either of them answer game rules via the tweet model in general. This was supposed to be the rulings over rules edition. But them clarifying the rules is just that. You still don't have to agree to their positions, they have no enforcement power. However, this just looks petty.


I mean...okay. Cantrips are spells, they are under the "Spell List" of each class, not listed as a separate thing other than 'spells'.

Except when they aren't. Or, when you create your first level warlock, do you only choose two cantrips as their known spells? It says they have two cantrips, and only two spells known. Does that mean they don't know any first-level spells, even though they can cast them?

Yes, the book is sloppy with it's wording. Cantrips both are and aren't spells. I agree that it is a sub-optimal situation. But they clarified their position, and you just called it against the rules. So it doesn't seem like there's an outcome which will satisfy you (would you have been okay with Crawford if he'd made a statement in favor of the position you preferred?).


It's one thing to clarify ambiguous rules, it's another to rewrite rules that are not remotely ambiguous. I guess the Rules As Written in the PHB are now a house rule for me :smallannoyed:

I think you are the only person who will see it that way.

[RogueJK]

Ok. Even if we ignore Crawford's clarifications, you're still conveniently ignoring or misinterpreting the text as written.

The section reads, in full:


Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher

At 1st level, you know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the warlock spell list. The Spells Known column of the Warlock table shows when you learn more warlock spells of your choice of 1st level and higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what's shown in the table's Slot Level column for your level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the warlock spells you know and replace it with another spell from the warlock spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

First, note that the section is specifically regarding "Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher".

Second, note the last sentence in that section, stating that you can swap out spells for another spell of a level for which you have spell slots.

Cantrips don't have spell slots. And they're not spells of 1st level or higher.

Doesn't apply to cantrips.

Plainly RAW.

[Brotherbock]

That's cute. Look, I'm against either of them answer game rules via the tweet model in general. This was supposed to be the rulings over rules edition. But them clarifying the rules is just that. You still don't have to agree to their positions, they have no enforcement power. However, this just looks petty.

It's petty for me to prefer the rules as they are written in the book? I'm not trying to be 'cute', as dismissive as you'd like to be. I have an honest to goodness, well-thought-out difference of opinion with you.


Except when they aren't. Or, when you create your first level warlock, do you only choose two cantrips as their known spells? It says they have two cantrips, and only two spells known. Does that mean they don't know any first-level spells, even though they can cast them?

No, cantrips really really are spells. Here's the language from the chapter on spells: "Every spell has a level from 0 to 9." "Cantrips--simple but powerful spells that characters can cast almost by rote--are level 0." "A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance. Repeated practice has fixed the spell in the caster's mind and infused the caster with the magic needed to produce the effect over and over. A cantrip's spell level is 0."

There is absolutely no ambiguity there. Cantrips are spells. Warlocks can swap 'spells'.


Yes, the book is sloppy with it's wording. Cantrips both are and aren't spells. I agree that it is a sub-optimal situation.

It's not sloppy. It's very clear. It's just, apparently, not what they wanted later on. They have not clarified, they have changed.


But they clarified their position, and you just called it against the rules. So it doesn't seem like there's an outcome which will satisfy you (would you have been okay with Crawford if he'd made a statement in favor of the position you preferred?).

Yes, it is against the rules as quite clearly written. Would I have been okay with Crawford saying "the rules as they are written are to be taken as written"? Yes. I would have been okay with that.




I think you are the only person who will see it that way.

Really? Among all people playing D&D, I'm the only one? You sure about that? What's your evidence?

And, frankly, even if that's true, I really don't care. If I'm playing in a GM's world and he sides with Crawford, I'll play that way. But if I'm the GM, I do it the way I want--the way the rules clearly state--and I don't spend a second thinking "Oh, but...what will all the other D&D players in the world think?"

[Brotherbock]

Ok. Even if we ignore Crawford's clarifications, you're still conveniently ignoring or misinterpreting the text as written.

The section reads, in full:



First, note that the section is specifically regarding "Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher".

Second, note the last sentence in that section, stating that you can swap out spells for another spell of a level for which you have spell slots.

Cantrips don't have spell slots. And they're not spells of 1st level or higher.

Doesn't apply to cantrips.

Plainly RAW.

Hey, now that is a reasonable argument. On the surface, it looks pretty good. I hadn't noticed at first I think because the PHB puts that paragraph at the top of the next column. But that makes way more sense than the 'cantrips aren't spells' argument.

Thanks for that, I'm going to look at that closer. :)

(Although the 'conveniently ignoring' is a veiled insult that isn't needed, don't you think? Why assume I have an ulterior motive other than just disagreeing?)

[RogueJK]

(Although the 'conveniently ignoring' is a veiled insult that isn't needed, don't you think? Why assume I have an ulterior motive other than just disagreeing?)

Not an insult. Just pointing out that I had already posted those same details in my previous post, which weren't addressed in your response. You were focusing on Crawford's tweets instead.

[Willie the Duck]

It's petty for me to prefer the rules as they are written in the book? I'm not trying to be 'cute', as dismissive as you'd like to be. I have an honest to goodness, well-thought-out difference of opinion with you.

You were trying to cast disagreement with your position as being violating the rules, even though this is a disagreement about what the rules are. That's declaring yourself right rather than making a argument why you are right. It never seems to turn out well for people on forums (since the only real power any of us have is the ability to convince others, and this is a terrible way to start).


No, cantrips really really are spells. Here's the language from the chapter on spells: "Every spell has a level from 0 to 9." "Cantrips--simple but powerful spells that characters can cast almost by rote--are level 0." "A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance. Repeated practice has fixed the spell in the caster's mind and infused the caster with the magic needed to produce the effect over and over. A cantrip's spell level is 0."

There is absolutely no ambiguity there. Cantrips are spells. Warlocks can swap 'spells'.

Then again, when you create your first level warlock, do you only choose two cantrips as their known spells? The table lists two cantrips known and also lists two spells known. Are those two cantrips the only spells the first level warlock knows?



Really? Among all people playing D&D, I'm the only one? You sure about that? What's your evidence?

No, the only person in this conversation (and it is a hunch, I am stating a hunch. I could absolutely be wrong. I invite the people convinced by Brotherbock's argument that Crawford is mistaken about the rules int the book to come forward and correct my perception on how this thread is going).

[bid]

No, the only person in this conversation (and it is a hunch, I am stating a hunch. I could absolutely be wrong. I invite the people convinced by Brotherbock's argument that Crawford is mistaken about the rules int the book to come forward and correct my perception on how this thread is going).
I'd be surprised this "interpretation" gets any traction.


Being wrong about RAW is one thing, it takes a few month of participation to clear things up. Being flat-out wrong is... a different beast.

Eternal September, February edition.

[Xetheral]

Since you already have GFB, you might consider Eldritch Smite as your invocation. Unlike Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite works with GFB, rather than competing with it.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I'd drop devil sight for improved pact weapon or another 5th level invocation (or lower).

Unless you desperately need the darkvision you should be fine, you dont even have darkness on your spell list (and dont pick it up either).

IPW is beter than your morning star, as its still a focus and its +1 magic weapon that you can reshape whenever. You may be attached to it, but remember that your pact weapon can look however you want, go bonkers.

Probably switch out hellish rebuke for a 3rd level spell. Hypnotic Pattern is cool. Fly is useful and scales. Counterspell is strong (but better for other casters, only so many slots...). Elemental Weapon is really fun, so is blink and blur (and wathful/branding smite).

[MThurston]

Since you already have GFB, you might consider Eldritch Smite as your invocation. Unlike Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite works with GFB, rather than competing with it.

GFB only works with a melee weapons from my understanding.

[MThurston]

I'd drop devil sight for improved pact weapon or another 5th level invocation (or lower).

Unless you desperately need the darkvision you should be fine, you dont even have darkness on your spell list (and dont pick it up either).

IPW is beter than your morning star, as its still a focus and its +1 magic weapon that you can reshape whenever. You may be attached to it, but remember that your pact weapon can look however you want, go bonkers.

Probably switch out hellish rebuke for a 3rd level spell. Hypnotic Pattern is cool. Fly is useful and scales. Counterspell is strong (but better for other casters, only so many slots...). Elemental Weapon is really fun, so is blink and blur (and wathful/branding smite).

Because if my back story the weapon is where I get my power. I can not reshape it and if I do not use it, I do not get my powers.

Hellish Rebuke does 4d10 fire damage as a 3rd level spell.

[bid]

GFB only works with a melee weapons from my understanding.
GFB uses the cast a spell action.
Thirsting blade requires the attack action.

You can't attack twice while using GFB.

[MThurston]

GFB uses the cast a spell action.
Thirsting blade requires the attack action.

You can't attack twice while using GFB.

Yes I know. So if I want, I can swing twice or use GFB.

An example of good use would be to attack the lower A.C. monster to have GFB jump to the higher A.C. monster.

[Xetheral]

GFB only works with a melee weapons from my understanding.

Eldritch Smite also works with melee weapons....

[MThurston]

Eldritch Smite also works with melee weapons....

It is a good option for single target attacks.

However not so much for AOE.

[RSP]

Fear is fantastic, particularly on a melee-focused frontline (it’s only downside being it’s an AoE cone centered on the caster). Even if you lose Concentration a round or two after casting it, it still requires targets that fled to take the same amount of rounds to return to the fight (and do so san’s any weapons they were holding on the onset of the casting).

Also, Armor of Agathys is great on a melee Warlock - added durability and added retributive damage that scales - without Concentration, and it last an hour.

[MThurston]

Fear is fantastic, particularly on a melee-focused frontline (it’s only downside being it’s an AoE cone centered on the caster). Even if you lose Concentration a round or two after casting it, it still requires targets that fled to take the same amount of rounds to return to the fight (and do so san’s any weapons they were holding on the onset of the casting).

Also, Armor of Agathys is great on a melee Warlock - added durability and added retributive damage that scales - without Concentration, and it last an hour.

I looked that up. I think at 5th level it's 15 temp HPs.

It's a good option but It doesn't last long, one or two hits.

I usually open with Hex so that leaves one more spell to drop.

I like to keep an AOE, when stuff looks bad.

I'll kill it over though.

Thanks for the advice.

I do wish that I could change my cantrip out. I'll see what my DM says.

[RSP]

I looked that up. I think at 5th level it's 15 temp HPs.

It's a good option but It doesn't last long, one or two hits.

15 tHPs at level 5 usually last 2 hits (with overflow to regular HP on the 2nd), meaning it does 30 total damage on two melee hits.

Warlocks have about 38 HPs at that level with a 14 Con. Upping your durability by almost 40% and potentially doing 30 damage (the equivalent of downing two Orcs), isn’t a bad use of a 3rd level spell, in my opinion.

Compare that to Hellish Rebuke which does about 22 damage for the same slot (not that HR is a great use of a spell slot).

I currently like to use Hex as well, and I like the combo with AoA, particularly if you can reliably keep Conc to have that 1st casting of Hex last through a SR or two.

[Keravath]

15 tHPs at level 5 usually last 2 hits (with overflow to regular HP on the 2nd), meaning it does 30 total damage on two melee hits.

Warlocks have about 38 HPs at that level with a 14 Con. Upping your durability by almost 40% and potentially doing 30 damage (the equivalent of downing two Orcs), isn’t a bad use of a 3rd level spell, in my opinion.

Compare that to Hellish Rebuke which does about 22 damage for the same slot (not that HR is a great use of a spell slot).

I currently like to use Hex as well, and I like the combo with AoA, particularly if you can reliably keep Conc to have that 1st casting of Hex last through a SR or two.

Keep in mind that you can't cast Hex and Armor of Agathys on the same turn ... it is either/or ... so it will take two turns to get both these spells running and you will not be able to attack on one of those turns.

AoA is also less useful is the character does mostly ranged damage since they may or may not get hit.

[MThurston]

The DM had us roll 4d6 and drop the lowest. I went just regular human and ended up with.

S 12, D 14, C 19, I 14, W 14 and Ch 19.

At 4th level I bumped Con and Cha to 20.

He also allows you to roll HPs and if you do not like that number you can re roll and take the second roll ie just take half God.

I rolled very well and I'm at 62 HP at 5th level.

[ChildofLuthic]

I usually open with Hex so that leaves one more spell to drop.

Hey you know 3rd level hex lasts like the whole day right? So you can cast it in the morning, take a short rest, and have two spell slots back. My character goes out every morning to "sacrifice a bird to his patron" (AKA cast hex on an animal and kill it) so he doesn't have to waste spell slots later on it.

[RSP]

Keep in mind that you can't cast Hex and Armor of Agathys on the same turn ... it is either/or ... so it will take two turns to get both these spells running and you will not be able to attack on one of those turns.

AoA is also less useful is the character does mostly ranged damage since they may or may not get hit.

Sure, but with the durations of each, you can usually get around that. AoA, lasting an hour, can be precast when doing anything where combat is likely (like dungeon crawls). Hex, assuming one can maintain Conc, last 8 hours. So cast it the first round of the first combat and hopefully it lasts through a SR or two.

[MThurston]

Sure, but with the durations of each, you can usually get around that. AoA, lasting an hour, can be precast when doing anything where combat is likely (like dungeon crawls). Hex, assuming one can maintain Conc, last 8 hours. So cast it the first round of the first combat and hopefully it lasts through a SR or two.
So if I cast Hex and kill a target, I don't have to move it for up to 7 hours and what not seconds?

[Petrocorus]

True Strike (Worthless so far, have never uses it.

True Strike is a total waste. Probably the worst cantrip in the game. Ask your DM if you can swap it.



1st
Hex
Hellish Rebuke
Arms of Hadar

I would swap Hellish Rebuke for Armor of Agathys, or a higher level spell. AoA is much better than Hellish Rebuke at your level, against the majority of enemies, as others pointed out.



5th level options
1 spells learned and can pick 3rd level
1 invocation

My idea
Thunder Step

You already have Misty Step. You probably want something else.



Thirsty Blade

Any suggestions on spells, invocations or swapping an invocation?

I have a sentient Morningstar that gives me war caster and acts like a focus.

The weapon is not a +1 but acts like a magical weapon for doing damage. I can not reshape it.

Is this your weapon of choice? What feats do you have?
If you're using Morningstar & Board, then using GFB wil keep being better than 2 attacks.
I would rather take Eldritch Smite in this case, as others have said. Or IPW.




But you have Devil's Sight, and don't have Darkness. Just sayin.
+1

[MThurston]

The reason for dark vision is because my character is human. Switching a spell to darkness is an option. But darkness isn't as powerful as it once was.

As for AoA, it is a 1 action spell and Hellish Rebuke is a reaction.

Misty Step is only 30 feet and Thunder Step is 300 feet with another person. I am doubling up which may seem silly to some people.

The spell that acts like a smite is single target. I wanted some AOE when I need it.

All very good suggestions.

As for my feat, +1 con and +1 cha.

[RSP]

If you're using Morningstar & Board, then using GFB wil keep being better than 2 attacks.


Why do you think this? At 5th level, GFB does [weapon attack] + 1d8 fire damage to a single target. If there’s a valid second target it does 1d8 + spellcasting mod (5 in this case).

Morningstar with 2 attacks:
1d8+5=9.5 (x2 Attacks is 19)

GFB=14

GFB is only doing more damage if there’s a secondary target to add on the 1d8+5 (and you don’t want to focus fire on one creature), no?

[Ganymede]

Make sure to pick up thirsting blade. It effectively is extra attack on your warlock

Meh... The OP already has the combat cantrips from Sword Coast; those are nearly as good as an extra attack, and it frees up an invocation slot for something else.

[Petrocorus]

The reason for dark vision is because my character is human. Switching a spell to darkness is an option. But darkness isn't as powerful as it once was.

It's not that powerful, it becomes more powerful with the combo.



As for AoA, it is a 1 action spell and Hellish Rebuke is a reaction.

A 1 action spell that you can cast beforehand.



Misty Step is only 30 feet and Thunder Step is 300 feet with another person. I am doubling up which may seem silly to some people.

It's 90 ft, not 300. It can be heard from 300 ft.

Thunder Step is better than Misty Step, for sure. But you may not be able to use it offensively.
And you probably don't need both.



The spell that acts like a smite is single target. I wanted some AOE when I need it.

Eldritch Smite is an Invocation, not a spell.
For AoE, i'd advise Shatter. Because Hunger of Hadar use your Concentration.



Why do you think this? At 5th level, GFB does [weapon attack] + 1d8 fire damage to a single target. If there’s a valid second target it does 1d8 + spellcasting mod (5 in this case).

Morningstar with 2 attacks:
1d8+5=9.5 (x2 Attacks is 19)

GFB=14

GFB is only doing more damage if there’s a secondary target to add on the 1d8+5 (and you don’t want to focus fire on one creature), no?
Against AC 16 (average for CR 5 i believe)
Morningstar is 2 x 65% x 9,5 = 12,35
GFB is 65% x 14 + 9,5 = 18,6 assuming there is a second target. 9,1 without a secondary target.

[RSP]

Against AC 16 (average for CR 5 i believe)
Morningstar is 2 x 65% x 9,5 = 12,35
GFB is 65% x 14 + 9,5 = 18,6 assuming there is a second target. 9,1 without a secondary target.

So is 12.35 not a better option than 9.1, particularly since you have a second chance to hit if the first attack falls into the 35% of rolls that fail to hit?

[Ganymede]

...particularly since you have a second chance to hit if the first attack falls into the 35% of rolls that fail to hit?

That part is a wash and depends on your priorities and preferences.

With two attacks, it is more probable to do at least some damage, but it is less probable to inflict damage on the higher end because hitting twice is less likely. The opposite is true with one buffed attack; you're less likely to inflict some damage, but are more likely to inflict damage on the higher end.

[MThurston]

Edritch Smite is nice but it eats up a spell slot.

1. Taking it over two attacks doesn't out damage it in the long run.

2. It eats up a spell slot.

Hunger of Hadar is cool but it hurts everyone. If I could stand in it and move, then that be worth it.

I've said this earlier with having two attacks and GFB.

If I have an A.C. 15 creature next to an A.C. 20 creature, I can GFB the lower guy and hex the other.

First target takes 2d8 +5 and the other takes 1d8 + 1d6 +5 damage.

Once down to single go back to two attacks.

I think I will stick with Misty Step. The Thunder one causes damage out to 10 feet. I have another spell that does thr 10 feet damage.

[Petrocorus]

So is 12.35 not a better option than 9.1, particularly since you have a second chance to hit if the first attack falls into the 35% of rolls that fail to hit?

Yes and no, this depends on the situation.
It depends on the average AC of the foes you're facing and the frequency where you'll get two targets.
It also depends at what level you'll end playing. Because your cantrips damages will raise but your sword damage ate not sure to raise.

So i believe they are on par at level 5 in average, but GFB is better at higher level.

[MThurston]

Yes and no, this depends on the situation.
It depends on the average AC of the foes you're facing and the frequency where you'll get two targets.
It also depends at what level you'll end playing. Because your cantrips damages will raise but your sword damage ate not sure to raise.

So i believe they are on par at level 5 in average, but GFB is better at higher level.

At 11th level is its weapon damage + 2d8 + mod.

So it is better than two attacks depending on what weapon you have.

[bid]

GFB is 65% x 14 + 9,5 = 18,6
Huh, no.

65% x (14 + 9,5) = 15.3

[Petrocorus]

At 11th level is its weapon damage + 2d8 + mod.

So it is better than two attacks depending on what weapon you have.
That's what i meant.


Huh, no.

65% x (14 + 9,5) = 15.3
Indeed you're right. I noticed this afterwards.

[Arial Black]

I have a sentient Morningstar that gives me war caster and acts like a focus.

The weapon is not a +1 but acts like a magical weapon for doing damage. I can not reshape it.

I'm surprised that this hasn't been pointed out already, but your lovely morningstar cannot be your Pact Weapon!

Neither artifacts nor sentient weapons can be made into Pact Weapons!

This means that if you do choose Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, and/or Improved Pact Weapon, then while using that sentient morningstar you cannot use or benefit from any of those invocations, or anything that specifies 'your pact weapon'.

[rockthecaspar]

Neither artifacts nor sentient weapons can be made into Pact Weapons!


The quote is:

"You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."

The artifact/sentient weapon part is only referring to the part about being able to move it into an extradimensional space. It makes sense that if your weapon was acting as your patron, you wouldn't be able to just teleport it out of existance whenever you were bored of it nagging you.

[MThurston]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been pointed out already, but your lovely morningstar cannot be your Pact Weapon!

Neither artifacts nor sentient weapons can be made into Pact Weapons!

This means that if you do choose Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, and/or Improved Pact Weapon, then while using that sentient morningstar you cannot use or benefit from any of those invocations, or anything that specifies 'your pact weapon'.

DM has already ruled that I get my powers through the morning star. I can not send it into a void and I can not reshape it.

It does however act as my pact weapon.

I can swap put the two attacks at level 11 if my weapon hasn't morphed into something more powerful.

[RSP]

So if I cast Hex and kill a target, I don't have to move it for up to 7 hours and what not seconds?

Sorry I missed this earlier. You can transfer it, but do not have to.

You cast Hex and eventually drop the target to 0 HP. So long as you maintain Concentration on Hex, you can use a Bonus Action to switch it to a new target (which doesn’t count as “casting” for the BA spell rule) whenever you like. If that new target drops to 0 HP you’re free to select a new target again, so on and so forth.

[MThurston]

So this is what I have choosen.

Thirsting Blade
Counter Spell

Switch Hellish Rebuke to Darkness

[McSkrag]

So hit level 5 last night.

Cantrip
GFB
EB
True Strike (Worthless so far, have never uses it.

1st
Hex
Hellish Rebuke
Arms of Hadar

2nd
Misty Step
Mirror Image

Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Devils Sight

5th level options
1 spells learned and can pick 3rd level
1 invocation

My idea
Thunder Step
Thirsty Blade


Any suggestions on spells, invocations or swapping an invocation?

I have a sentient Morningstar that gives me war caster and acts like a focus.

The weapon is not a +1 but acts like a magical weapon for doing damage. I can not reshape it.

Looks like you are missing a crowd control weapon from your arsenal. Take a look at Hypnotic Pattern. It's an AOE control spell that targets WIS.

[Arial Black]

The quote is:

"You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."

The artifact/sentient weapon part is only referring to the part about being able to move it into an extradimensional space. It makes sense that if your weapon was acting as your patron, you wouldn't be able to just teleport it out of existance whenever you were bored of it nagging you.

I never looked at it that way before, that you can make a sentient/artifact weapon into your pact weapon, but you can't shunt it into an extradimensional space.

I like it better. It allows me to finally have Stormbringer! :smallsmile: Thanks!

[MThurston]

Looks like you are missing a crowd control weapon from your arsenal. Take a look at Hypnotic Pattern. It's an AOE control spell that targets WIS.

I'm a front line fighter. Don't see the point of CC when I am a Striker.

[CantigThimble]

I'm a front line fighter. Don't see the point of CC when I am a Striker.

Same point CC always has, to prevent enemies from hitting you while you hit them. Unless hypnotic pattern is just toally redundant because someone in your party already has it it's quite powerful and, as a warlock, you have the option to take it so why not?

Categorizing classes as 'strikers' or 'controllers' is a useful shorthand for keeping track of what classes are capable of, not a limitation on what abilities you can take. Bladelocks don't really fit neatly into any category and have the strength of flexibility, so why not take the best option you can regardless of what 'type' of character it's meant for?

[Skylivedk]

Armour of Agathys has been way better for me than ever imagined. Especially if someone can give you resistance (Cavalier, Warding Bond and what have you). Against enemies with many small attacks, it shreds and you'll meet more and more of them (Yuan-Ti having been one of my favourite).

Hypnotic Pattern is one of the best spells in the game. It's an AoE INT save. Not to be underestimated. I'd take it even over Fear.

I'd replace Arms of Hader with Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Armour of Agathys or Fly (remember, it scales when you reach level 7) and take Hypnotic Pattern as the other option. Rebuke is also super meh and Hex, I find to be overrated (as half-drow, my character also has plenty of other Concentration spells).

Ask your DM if you can change the trap of True Strike to the creativity card blanche of Minor Illusion.

[RSP]

Same point CC always has, to prevent enemies from hitting you while you hit them. Unless hypnotic pattern is just toally redundant because someone in your party already has it it's quite powerful and, as a warlock, you have the option to take it so why not?

Categorizing classes as 'strikers' or 'controllers' is a useful shorthand for keeping track of what classes are capable of, not a limitation on what abilities you can take. Bladelocks don't really fit neatly into any category and have the strength of flexibility, so why not take the best option you can regardless of what 'type' of character it's meant for?

I believe the OP stated previously they run Hex as their full-day Concentration.

In that case, Concentration spells compete not just with other Concentration spells, but a slot-less Concentration (after the first SR) Spell.

I agree HP and Fear are great spells, however, they essentially compete with [AoA and Hex] or [Hex + Smite] or whatever, on this type of build.

Also, DM dependent, casting an AoE control spell could very well paint a target on your back with intelligent (or not-so-intelligent enemies), where’s AoA can make others very hesitant to attack you; all of which goes towards a lot less likely to maintain Concentration with HP, then with Hex.

[Keravath]

Armour of Agathys has been way better for me than ever imagined. Especially if someone can give you resistance (Cavalier, Warding Bond and what have you). Against enemies with many small attacks, it shreds and you'll meet more and more of them (Yuan-Ti having been one of my favourite).

Hypnotic Pattern is one of the best spells in the game. It's an AoE INT save. Not to be underestimated. I'd take it even over Fear.

I'd replace Arms of Hader with Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Armour of Agathys or Fly (remember, it scales when you reach level 7) and take Hypnotic Pattern as the other option. Rebuke is also super meh and Hex, I find to be overrated (as half-drow, my character also has plenty of other Concentration spells).

Ask your DM if you can change the trap of True Strike to the creativity card blanche of Minor Illusion.

Hypnotic Pattern is indeed a great spell. However, not so great as to require an int save. It is a wisdom save and not an int save. "Each creature in the area who sees the pattern must make a Wisdom saving throw."

[MThurston]

Hypnotic Pattern is indeed a great spell. However, not so great as to require an int save. It is a wisdom save and not an int save. "Each creature in the area who sees the pattern must make a Wisdom saving throw."

I open with hex. I then need a none consentration spell.

If I have hex already up, I will have two spells available.

When outnumbered I cast Mirror Image.

When surrounded I cast Arms of Hadar. (I wish that it didn't hit friendlies)

When needing to get into a spot or out of a spot, I cast Misty Step.

When multiple target are next to each other I cast GFB.

When single target it will be two attacks.

Now for a 3rd level spell. Thunder Step is nice but I have AoH that does that damage and Misty Step does the teleports.

The Hadar 3rd level spell doesn't allow me to pass through it. So that is a no.

I don't want another concentration spell to compete with Hex. I look for reaction and Bonus Action Spells.

Counter Spell fits it. The last game we played, we were hit by a spell that was in a straight line and did 33 points of damage. It hit 3 of us and put one down and luckily I saved for half damage along with the other party member.

I would like to prevent that in the future.

Switching over to Darkness is a good idea. The draw back to it is my party members can't see into it like I can.