Familiar with Eldritch blast

[dnd2016]

If my familiar uses his action to help me giving me advantage on Eldritch blast, does that apply to all three Rays at 11 level?

[Citadel97501]

If my familiar uses his action to help me giving me advantage on Eldritch blast, does that apply to all three Rays at 11 level?

No, just the first attack.

[redwizard007]

How does the familiar get you advantage of they are incapable of attacking? Apologies if I'm remembering a hose rule rather than RAW. I'm away from my books.

[Contrast]

How does the familiar get you advantage of they are incapable of attacking? Apologies if I'm remembering a hose rule rather than RAW. I'm away from my books.


If my familiar uses his action to help me giving me advantage on Eldritch blast

Familiar can't attack but 'can take other actions as normal', which includes the Help action.

[intregus]

They can't take the attack action. They can take the help action

[BlackRose]

The enemy would also have to be within five feet of you as the help action states, unless your familiar is also a mastermind rogue

[Keravath]

The enemy would also have to be within five feet of you as the help action states, unless your familiar is also a mastermind rogue

No. The enemy needs to be within 5’ of the familiar when it takes the help action not within 5’ of the person making the attack.

[BlackRose]

No. The enemy needs to be within 5’ of the familiar when it takes the help action not within 5’ of the person making the attack.

My mistake, I thought it was both

[Malifice]

Better in theory than it is in game.

Seeing as your familiar rolls its own initiative, it's damn near impossible getting the timing right.

[Solid_Snek]

Better in theory than it is in game.

Seeing as your familiar rolls its own initiative, it's damn near impossible getting the timing right.

It really wouldn't be all that unbalanced. There are so many ways to gain advantage on attacks and 5e seems to push toward using your background to gain inspiration.

Giving up class features for a 1/round advantage isn't really anything that a DM wouldn't be able to deal with. Rogues can help within 30, barbarians get reckless attack, inspiration is a thing, being hidden, Beacon of Hope, Faerie Fire, anything that is blind, anything prone, and so on...

5e really wants you to have advantage. I wouldn't worry about the owl familiar giving advantage on one attack per round.

[Potato_Priest]

It really wouldn't be all that unbalanced. There are so many ways to gain advantage on attacks and 5e seems to push toward using your background to gain inspiration.

Giving up class features for a 1/round advantage isn't really anything that a DM wouldn't be able to deal with. Rogues can help within 30, barbarians get reckless attack, inspiration is a thing, being hidden, Beacon of Hope, Faerie Fire, anything that is blind, anything prone, and so on...

5e really wants you to have advantage. I wouldn't worry about the owl familiar giving advantage on one attack per round.

I don't think malifice was saying it was overpowered: rather, that it tends to be a little lackluster in his experience. Which is to some extent true. It's certainly not nearly as good here as on a rogue either.

[holywhippet]

They can't take the attack action. They can take the help action

Pact of the chain warlock familiars can as I recall.

I'm still unconvinced the help action works since it only applies to things a creature is capable of doing.

[BarneyBent]

I'm still unconvinced the help action works since it only applies to things a creature is capable of doing.

Where are you getting that from?

[Millstone85]

I'm still unconvinced the help action works since it only applies to things a creature is capable of doing.
Where are you getting that from?He is getting that from the rules on helping with an ability check, which he is mistakenly applying on helping with an attack roll.

Edit: Also, here is the SA on the matter.
Can the familiar you conjure with the find familiar spell use the Help action to grant you advantage on your attack roll? A familiar can’t attack, but it can take non-attack actions, including Help. As the text of the Help action indicates (PH, 192), the action doesn’t require you to be able to attack; you simply need to be able to provide some sort of distraction.

[SpanielBear]

it’s true that initiative order can make a caster/familiar combo harder to pull off, but bear in mind your familiar doesn’t have to just help you. If the initiative order favours another party member, the familiar can always help them instead.

[Vogie]

Pact of the chain warlock familiars can as I recall.

I'm still unconvinced the help action works since it only applies to things a creature is capable of doing.


Help
You can lend your aid to another creature in the completion of a task. When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability check it makes to perform the task you are helping with, provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn.
Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage. Bolded for emphasis. The "you" in the above is whoever takes the help action, which in this case, the familiar.


it’s true that initiative order can make a caster/familiar combo harder to pull off, but bear in mind your familiar doesn’t have to just help you. If the initiative order favours another party member, the familiar can always help them instead.

This is correct. You can also have it "Ready Action: Help" based on something like "the rogue stabs this guy" or "master casts a spell at this target"

[strangebloke]

Better in theory than it is in game.

Seeing as your familiar rolls its own initiative, it's damn near impossible getting the timing right.

Technically, you can have your familiar mount you, then its initiative comes just before you.

This, combined with the fact that tracking initiative is a pain, is what led me to houserule that the familiar goes before or after your turn, just like a mount. I doubt any of my players are munchkins enough to where they'd do the "I am the familiar's mount" nonsense, but it isn't like it breaks anything anyway. The familiar is very exposed if they're getting right next to the enemy.

Unless you're a pact of the chain warlock, of course. Either way, its really a niche tactic for rogues, pact of the chain warlocks, and low-level casters.

[Millstone85]

Is it really so important to have the familiar's turn come just before your own?

[Vogie]

Is it really so important to have the familiar's turn come just before your own?

Do you want advantage on your next attack? Yes
Do you want advantage on someone's next attack? No

[Eldan]

Is it really so important to have the familiar's turn come just before your own?

If the enemy acts between your familiar and you, they migth do something that stops you from attacking in that way.

[sophontteks]

Its not a big deal. You'd still get advantage on your next attack and if you don't make that attack that turn its not like the familiar is doing much else in combat anyway.

This is doubly so since the familiar doesn't have to grant you advantage. There's a whole party the familiar could be helping out.

[Millstone85]

Do you want advantage on your next attack? Yes
Do you want advantage on someone's next attack? NoWait, are you reading the Help action as granting advantage on the first attack made by any ally?

[greenstone]

Wait, are you reading the Help action as granting advantage on the first attack made by any ally?

That makes sense to me. If the familiar is distracting a foe then that grants advantage on the next attack against that foe, regardless of who makes the attack.

Unless you can describe how the familiar does something on its turn that helps someone multiple turns later but doesn't help on the intervening turns?

Actually... now that I think about it... you could do it with Ready. The familiar readies an action to help its master attack. Normally, readied actions go after the trigger but I'd accept this exception.

[Contrast]

Wait, are you reading the Help action as granting advantage on the first attack made by any ally?

For what its worth that is how it is intended to work (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/10/help-action-canmust-you-specify-which-ally-is-helped/).

[JackPhoenix]

Technically, you can have your familiar mount you, then its initiative comes just before you.

This, combined with the fact that tracking initiative is a pain, is what led me to houserule that the familiar goes before or after your turn, just like a mount. I doubt any of my players are munchkins enough to where they'd do the "I am the familiar's mount" nonsense, but it isn't like it breaks anything anyway. The familiar is very exposed if they're getting right next to the enemy.

Only if you serve as controlled mount, in which case you're limited to Dash, Disengage and Dodge. Independent mount doesn't share initiative with the rider.

Hillariously, you also need special training to serve as controlled mount.

[Millstone85]

Unless you can describe how the familiar does something on its turn that helps someone multiple turns later but doesn't help on the intervening turns?I shouldn't have to narrate anything involving "multiple turns later" because those do not exist within the fiction.

There are only 6 seconds of mayhem, during which my familiar might not be so lucky as to monopolize the enemy's whole attention, but rather try to take that attention away from me.


For what its worth that is how it is intended to work (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/10/help-action-canmust-you-specify-which-ally-is-helped/).Well, this is weird. :smallconfused:

[Vogie]

Wait, are you reading the Help action as granting advantage on the first attack made by any ally?

For what its worth that is how it is intended to work (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/10/help-action-canmust-you-specify-which-ally-is-helped/).
I've never questioned it - It's literally what it says.
And like I said, if you wanted choose which person to use it on, you'd just use a readied action to Help at the next point. It's also one of the reasons why Masterminds... aren't great, because you're just tossing the advantage to whomever is next on the initiative order, and you can't be an ally of yourself (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/29/help-action/). It's still better than nothing, though.

The only time you wouldn't have to worry about this is if you were an Arcane Trickster Rogue using Versatile Trickster to create Mage Hand distraction, as that gives it to you (the caster) specifically, instead of using the Help action text. However, it uses your bonus action (part of the cunning action) to get that.