"Heaviest" light armor

[noce]

Hello everybody. So, for a 10 dex character with Evasion, what's the best light armor?

I know about mithral breastplate. Is there any other medium armor with more than 5 AC bonus?
There's Celestial Armor in SRD, but that's just a +3 armor for a character with no dexterity.

I know about Psychoactive Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor from M.I.C., it's a moderately cheap light armor with +8 AC bonus, but I don't know if it can be enchanted like any other armor.

Any other? Thank you in advance.

[Malphegor]

I think the harness of armour (basically the same as bracers of armour but chest slot) from the ancient empires of faerun book can be upgraded to at least +8 AC, but I'm not sure. Not really 'armour' exactly, more 'leather He-Man chest straps that are enchanted with mage armour' but that's basically the same thing.

It's also clothing so it's better than light armour for stuff.

I'm away from books at the moment to check though.

[Crake]

Mithril chain shirt with masterwork dastana, and a masterwork buckler all enchanted to +5 is +21AC with 0ACP, so quite literally anyone could use that combo without any penalties.

[noce]

I think the harness of armour (basically the same as bracers of armour but chest slot) from the ancient empires of faerun book can be upgraded to at least +8 AC, but I'm not sure. Not really 'armour' exactly, more 'leather He-Man chest straps that are enchanted with mage armour' but that's basically the same thing.

It's also clothing so it's better than light armour for stuff.

I'm away from books at the moment to check though.

Thank you, didn't know. Anyway, the psychoactive skin costs only 6000 for +8 AC, that's 90.000 less than a +8 harness.


Mithril chain shirt with masterwork dastana, and a masterwork buckler all enchanted to +5 is +21AC with 0ACP, so quite literally anyone could use that combo without any penalties.

Sorry, I forgot to mention we only use 3.5 material or explicitly updated 3.0 material. Also, that's really only +10 since anyarmor can be enchanted

[Crake]

Thank you, didn't know. Anyway, the psychoactive skin costs only 6000 for +8 AC, that's 90.000 less than a +8 harness.



Sorry, I forgot to mention we only use 3.5 material or explicitly updated 3.0 material. Also, that's really only +10 since anyarmor can be enchanted

Dastana are in oriental adventures which recieved a 3.5 update in one of the dragon magazines, does that count?

[Awakeninfinity]

If you're allowed to use Dragon Magazine content; issue 358 has the Master's Forge which can give small stacking boosts to armor and weapons from superior craftsmanship.

[Fizban]

Sorry, I forgot to mention we only use 3.5 material or explicitly updated 3.0 material. Also, that's really only +10 since anyarmor can be enchanted
What he's saying is that the Dastana let you have another +5 enhancement, so you've got +9, +6, and +6. I disagree, because this requires an intentionally permissive reading that ignores all other assumptions of the game about the fact that you can use one armor, and one shield. Whether you count the Dastana as a shield, where they're listed on the table, or as armor, which the text says is the bonus they provide*, either way their enhancement bonus would be an enhancement to armor or shield, which overlaps.

*Note also that "armor" bonus on the table means "AC" bonus, since shields are on the same table with their bonus under armor.

That's before the fact that Dastana are literally just "better arm guards than your base armor." If you can triple stack enhancement bonuses with Dastana, then clearly I should have an entry for a Kabuto. It's a bigger helmet than comes with most medium armors, with a face mask, and provides a +1 that stacks with the foundational etc etc. And now you can triple stack enhancement on medium armor. Now I just need an entry for a Gorget, an extra band that goes around the neck on heavy armor to prevent choking and stabs through the vulnerable neck joint, giving +1 etc. At least that would make things fair. At the cost of expanding your expected AC by +1-6 (depending on level) and making everyone's equipment weirdly mismatched and specific. Or you could just have armor be armor.

Either Dastana are meant to increase the total light armor bonus to +5, making medium armor (which stops at +5) completely obsolete, or the person who wrote them had no idea what they were doing. Maybe they are meant as a stealth "fix" to light armor by allowing it to scale to +15 total when bracers only go to +8 and full plate only goes to +13. Personally I think it's pretty clear whoever wrote them had fluff on the brain. I've made attempts to incorporate Dastana (and Tonlets) into a modular armor system, but in the end it's too much effort to try and keep them from instantly obsoleting the actual main armor sets, so I scrapped them and just wrote Composite armor entries on the middleground. Because any attempt to "reasonably" price different sections with different bonuses will mean the total price is far, far less than the actual specialized homogenous suits that are supposed to be required for those high bonuses.

Dastana anger me, if you haven't noticed. Arm guards are arm guards. What the PHB is critically lacking are entries for proper composite armor, and also grossly overestimating the idea of torso-only protection. And it's stupidly slanted so there's only a +1 gap from light to medium but a +3 from medium to heavy- that's literally the opposite of how it should slant, if it should slant at all. Rage continues.


Oh, right, and I should probably mention- Underdark has the Halfweight enhancement that lets you turn anything into a light armor. It's not cheap, but it'll give you that extra capacity later on when you can afford it. Apply to Mechanus Gear from Planar Handbook for best results- it's the best heavy armor, +10 with no silly exotic feats required, and the extra speed penalty vanishes because light armor imposes no speed penalty (unless your DM decides otherwise of course).

[noce]

Dragon magazine is not allowed, only official content.

[ShurikVch]

Make that armor into Intelligent Item, apply Half-Elemental (Earth) template to it - +3 natural AC

[Crake]

What he's saying is that the Dastana let you have another +5 enhancement, so you've got +9, +6, and +6. I disagree, because this requires an intentionally permissive reading that ignores all other assumptions of the game about the fact that you can use one armor, and one shield. Whether you count the Dastana as a shield, where they're listed on the table, or as armor, which the text says is the bonus they provide*, either way their enhancement bonus would be an enhancement to armor or shield, which overlaps.

The text says that dastana explicitly provide an armor bonus to AC that stacks with existing armor. The enhancement bonus isn't to AC, it's to the item's armor bonus, which then stacks with regular armor, which has it's own enhancement bonus. If the enhancement bonus was applied directly to AC, then enhancement bonuses from armor and shields wouldn't stack.

Of course, the way you're choosing to read it is how I actually houserule it to work, so I personally doing allow that at my table, but I'm pretty sure by RAW that's how it actually does work, and I have heard of people permitting it.

[Thurbane]

Has anyone mentioned Mechanus Gear (PlH) with the Halfweight special ability (Und)?

[animewatcha]

That's before the fact that Dastana are literally just "better arm guards than your base armor." If you can triple stack enhancement bonuses with Dastana, then clearly I should have an entry for a Kabuto. It's a bigger helmet than comes with most medium armors, with a face mask, and provides a +1 that stacks with the foundational etc etc. And now you can triple stack enhancement on medium armor. Now I just need an entry for a Gorget, an extra band that goes around the neck on heavy armor to prevent choking and stabs through the vulnerable neck joint, giving +1 etc. At least that would make things fair. At the cost of expanding your expected AC by +1-6 (depending on level) and making everyone's equipment weirdly mismatched and specific. Or you could just have armor be armor.



Is there an entry that actually says a kabuto provides x bonus, etc. or you just using an examble to be made for different pieces of armor ( besides Gorget ). Only entry for kabuto I could find in OA was the equivalent helms of telepathy, teleportation, and brilliance.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Has anyone mentioned Mechanus Gear (PlH) with the Halfweight special ability (Und)?

Just beat me to it. Add mithral and you have a light armor that provides a +11 armor bonus, a +2 max dex bonus, and -7 ACP that only weighs 18.25 lbs. Price is a beast though; 26,900 gp.

On the dastana

While it doesn't mean anything to the OP, the dragon update says that the enhancement bonuses don't stack (even though it gets the exact reasoning for why wrong) but that any other special abilities the dastana provides like, for example, light fortification still apply from both the dastana and the base armor. Same goes for the oft-overlooked cahar-aina add on.

A&EG updated the dastana to be a shield type item but otherwise left its rules as they were in OA.

[Fizban]

Is there an entry that actually says a kabuto provides x bonus, etc. or you just using an examble to be made for different pieces of armor ( besides Gorget ). Only entry for kabuto I could find in OA was the equivalent helms of telepathy, teleportation, and brilliance.
I just made those two up, yes. Dastana are just a foregin word for a type of "arm guards," a kabuto is just a foreign word for a type of helmet, and a big gorget is just a part of certain armor designs. But they are a way you could modify the armor system- allowing a third piece of AC gear that uses the enhancement bonus formula results in a greater maximum AC cap at the end and slightly more AC in the middle, and having it give +1 even before magic is just a straight buff to AC. The problem is that you need to actually do this for all armors, including and especially the heavy armors that are supposed to be, ya know, more protective than light armor.

So if you want to have that third enhancement slot you need one for each armor category. And they aren't optional, because they're the new expectation. Which means everyone looks silly. Hmm. You could use a layer of mail instead of the gorget for heavy- it has little or no practical use, once you have plates you don't need a full suit of mail beneath, but some people are known to have doubled up on layers of mail or put their plate/brigandine over normal mail for serious battles. Then replace the kabuto with a full helm, and dastana with bracers, and you have westernized/generic pieces for the system.

But as I said, I don't like the results of that. My armor table fixes it by essentially banishing the concept of "full body" light armor. Arming doublet, gambeson, brigandine/chain shirt, and breastplate are torso+fringe only (+1/2/3/4), medium armor adds arm and leg guards, and heavy fills in the gaps.

Of course, the way you're choosing to read it is how I actually houserule it to work, so I personally doing allow that at my table, but I'm pretty sure by RAW that's how it actually does work, and I have heard of people permitting it.
I am getting real sick of people arguing for "RAW" answers and then admitting they don't even run them that way. A ruling that no one uses except to win internet points, is not a ruling that matters.

If you're going to mention a "RAW" reading that you don't use, you should at least be up front about the fact that you don't even use it.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

This is an oddball and may not be applicable, but the best 'armor' that doesn't count as heavy or medium is the Dragonscale Husk ACF. Bonus to AC equal to 6+1/3 your class level. Doesn't interfere with rage, evasion, spellcasting, or anything else that requires light (or less) armor. Also, because the description is somewhat weird, it stacks with Bracers of Armor.

Alternatively, just use Bracers of Armor.

[Crake]

I am getting real sick of people arguing for "RAW" answers and then admitting they don't even run them that way. A ruling that no one uses except to win internet points, is not a ruling that matters.

If you're going to mention a "RAW" reading that you don't use, you should at least be up front about the fact that you don't even use it.

As I said, I have seen other people use it that way, and I did initially run it that way, so if the OP can convince the DM to run it by RAW, it's probably about the best AC he can get.

[Maat Mons]

It's kind of off-topic, since the OP already said he doesn't use un-updated 3.0 material, but I'd like to address the dastana thing.

Oriental Adventure also had the charar-aina. A chain shirt, dastana, and chahar-aina can all be worn together for a +6 armor bonus to AC. Chahar-aina is medium armor, but can be made of mithral.

The FAQ for Oriental Adventures states that enhancement bonuses on dastana and chahar-aina overlap with enhancement bonuses on armor (and on each other).

It's still thoroughly ridiculous though. You get three armors'-worth of special special abilities.

Song an Silence actually did stat out a gorget as an add-on for armor. But the extra AC only applies against garote attacks.

[tyckspoon]

This is an oddball and may not be applicable, but the best 'armor' that doesn't count as heavy or medium is the Dragonscale Husk ACF. Bonus to AC equal to 6+1/3 your class level. Doesn't interfere with rage, evasion, spellcasting, or anything else that requires light (or less) armor. Also, because the description is somewhat weird, it stacks with Bracers of Armor.

Alternatively, just use Bracers of Armor.

I never looked at the description of it that closely before, but this appears to be right. It does specify it counts as Medium armor for most purposes, tho, but the AC bonus is actually untyped, so you can wear it along with another item that grants a standard Armor bonus. It does have a rather bizarre non-stacking clause that you cannot use it along with any other AC bonus from a 'feat, racial trait, or special ability.' This is.. weird wording, to say the least, and while it pretty clearly leaves the door open for stacking in normal items, it does have really limiting interactions with things like class-based AC improvements.

[Fizban]

As I said, I have seen other people use it that way, and I did initially run it that way, so if the OP can convince the DM to run it by RAW, it's probably about the best AC he can get.
And I agree- I'm just annoyed that you didn't mention it 'till further downthread after I specifically called it out. And I find the RAW result silly and harmful to the rest of the armor system, so I must recommend against that ruling even if it would make the OP's character stronger. Because if you have low dex and can't wear anything higher than light armor, that's a penalty you're supposed to have, unless you buy your way out with more dex or armor proficiency.


I never looked at the description of it that closely before, but this appears to be right. It does specify it counts as Medium armor for most purposes, tho, but the AC bonus is actually untyped, so you can wear it along with another item that grants a standard Armor bonus. It does have a rather bizarre non-stacking clause that you cannot use it along with any other AC bonus from a 'feat, racial trait, or special ability.' This is.. weird wording, to say the least, and while it pretty clearly leaves the door open for stacking in normal items, it does have really limiting interactions with things like class-based AC improvements.
I mean, it's pretty dang obvious it's supposed to be replacing your armor, by the fact that it replaces your armor proficiency and is lost if you ever gain proficiency. But yeah, the initial wording on Dragonscale Husk is terrible, even if its easy to fix.

[Crake]

Oh, there's also something I forgot: The halfweight armor enchantment, it's a +3 armor enchantment cost, and makes the armor it's applied to treated as light armor for all purposes, including speed reduction, proficiencies, and what you can do class feature wise while wearing it (like rogue evasion etc).

So you could just slap that on like, some +10AC +0 max dex heavy armor from races of stone or whatever and call it a day.

Thurbane already mentioned halfweight, gonna go ahead and second it. If you aren't going to use dastana shenannigans, then it's about your best option.

[Fizban]

Oh, right, and I should probably mention- Underdark has the Halfweight enhancement that lets you turn anything into a light armor. It's not cheap, but it'll give you that extra capacity later on when you can afford it. Apply to Mechanus Gear from Planar Handbook for best results- it's the best heavy armor, +10 with no silly exotic feats required, and the extra speed penalty vanishes because light armor imposes no speed penalty (unless your DM decides otherwise of course).
Last edited by Fizban; Today at 04:12 AM. (over 16 hours ago)

Has anyone mentioned Mechanus Gear (PlH) with the Halfweight special ability (Und)?

Oh, there's also something I forgot: The halfweight armor enchantment, it's a +3 armor enchantment cost, and makes the armor it's applied to treated as light armor for all purposes, including speed reduction, proficiencies, and what you can do class feature wise while wearing it (like rogue evasion etc).

So you could just slap that on like, some +10AC +0 max dex heavy armor from races of stone or whatever and call it a day.

Thurbane already mentioned halfweight, gonna go ahead and second it. If you aren't going to use dastana shenannigans, then it's about your best option.
I am offended, sirs.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How's your Wis score? Two levels in swordsage not only give +Wis in light armor, but also a ton of super duper maneupers maneuvers, as well.

[ezekielraiden]

What about luminous armor, greater or otherwise? That's +5 (or +8) armor bonus with nothing, not even physical weight, applying.

A continuous greater luminous armor item should cost (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong) 4*7*1800=50,400 gp. Seems reasonable compared to unenchanted full plate (since GLA has other benefits).

[Fizban]

A continuous item of Luminous Armor is not appropriate for the same reason a continuous item of Mage Armor is not appropriate. Mage Armor vs Bracers of Armor is the example given in the book for why the formulas aren't always appropriate.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A continuous item of Luminous Armor is not appropriate for the same reason a continuous item of Mage Armor is not appropriate. Mage Armor vs Bracers of Armor is the example given in the book for why the formulas aren't always appropriate.Continuous mage armor? I believe that's called a "1st level pearl of power."

[Kelb_Panthera]

Continuous mage armor? I believe that's called a "1st level pearl of power."

Gonna need a level 2 pearl for that extended mage armor unless you want to buy 2 level 1s and wait 'till CL 8 to have it make "continuous" a thing. Still subject to dispelling though.

Doesn't really invalidate Fizban's point though. The rules and formulas for custom items call for the GM to use the bonus value formulae before the spell level X CL formulae. The latter is for effects with no obvious bonuses to use as the basis for pricing.

[noce]

How's your Wis score? Two levels in swordsage not only give +Wis in light armor, but also a ton of super duper maneupers maneuvers, as well.

I didn't say anything about the build to avoid posters telling me it's unoptimized, because I already know that.

The build I'm going to play is a paladin 4 / monk 2 / argent fist 10 / something 4.
The character is a middle age human starting with 10 dex and 18 wis, relying on Intuitive Attack and Stunning Fist more than raw damage.

This thing has Evasion and retains wis to ac with armor and shield. This is the reason that brings me to light armors, so that I still enjoy Evasion and keep 30ft speed.

It appears to me that Psychoactive Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor is the best value for money armor, with a whopping +8 at just 6k.
If it's ruled it can be enchanted as a regular armor, then I'll stick to it.
Otherwise, It seems to me that a +1 Halfweight Mechanus Gear (or Heavy Plate if the former cannot be found) is cheaper than a Mithral Breastplate +4, while offering more AC.

The rest of things you mentioned are interesting for other readers, while cannot be useful to me.
For people wanting to know why do I keep Evasion instead of trading it for Invisible Fist, Evasion is a requirement of the PrC.
For people wanting to tell me to just buy a ring of Evasion, or that Evasion is not that great, or whatever, thank you but that's not the point.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Otherwise, It seems to me that a +1 Halfweight Mechanus Gear (or Heavy Plate if the former cannot be found) is cheaper than a Mithral Breastplate +4, while offering more AC.

M. Gear: +11 for 17,900
+4 M. Breastplate: +9 for 20,350

So that looks like it checks out, at first blush.

But look at the max dex bonuses:

M. Gear: +0
M. Breastplate: +5

The Mechanus gear cuts off a source of AC that you probably already draw from and one which you most likely will want to improve in the future as well. That's definitely worth considering, IMO.

There's also the issue that you only have 5 points of space for special abilities if you want to max the enhancement bonuses and the Mechanus gear is using 3 just to not slow you down. Even at the other extreme, where you're placing +9 worth of special abilities, that's still a third of it used up before you even look at anything more interesting.

You gotta weigh those two things against that 2450 gp. Between the two, I'd probably go with the breastplate for the higher touch AC and to keep more of the special ability space free. If you're likely to go past a +5 dex bonus, I'd look for something else altogether that can support that.