[3.5] Staying power for a shadowcaster with no homebrew and no lost advancement?

[Zaq]

Parameters:
D&D 3.5 only. Avoid Dragon Mag if possible; relatively open-book otherwise.
Pure-class shadowcaster (Tome of Magic). PrCs with zero lost CL can be considered, but dips that lose mystery advancement will not.
The faster your suggestion comes online, the more interesting I will find it.
ECL 0 race.
No homebrew, including Marmell's "unofficial fix."
This isn't for an actual game, so there currently isn't a GM to beg for mercy. Stick to the rules.

Anyway, with that out of the way, what techniques do you have for giving a shadowcaster some more staying power? I really do love the concept of the class, but my problem with them is the same as everyone's problem with them: they have no staying power at all. They run out of juice faster than an outdated smartphone playing Pokémon Go. They're what happens when you slap a Goatee of Reversal on the Energizer Bunny. They... you get the point. I've compiled a few ways to stretch out their stock of standard actions, but none of them are without problems, and I'd like to siphon some wisdom from the hivemind. I'm especially interested in the early game, when the problem is at its worst, but ideally I'd like whatever method that gets chosen to be scalable in some fashion.

These options are presented in basically a stream-of-consciousness order. The numbering system doesn't indicate anything other than the other in which I choose to write them down.

Option 1: Crossbow Mode!
Basically you just pull out a crossbow.
Pros: Requires zero investment.
Cons: That's, like, the absolute barest baseline of "look, I'm doing something other than literally twiddling my thumbs." Acceptable in the level 1-3 range (barely acceptable), but it's a little embarrassing even then, and it's downright shameful after the very earliest levels.

Option 2: Reserve feats
I'm pretty sure that mysteries qualify you for reserve feats if they have the appropriate keywords and are cast as arcane spells.
Pros: The CL boost might come up, and some reserve feats are fun.
Cons: The RAW gets downright ugly when you hit a new tier of mysteries and your mysteries that were cast as spells stop being spells. Even glossing over that, there aren't very many low-level mysteries that qualify for the decent reserve feats, and since that's when the problem is the worst, I'm less than impressed. Plus, with the shadowcaster's anemic uses per day of their mysteries, locking one up in reserve is actually a way bigger cost than it is on a normal caster (after all, a shadowcaster faces a much higher cost for just "preparing a second one" than a wizard would, to say nothing of a spontaneous caster). And to cap it all off, it's hard to scale things up while keeping even a pretense of diversity in your mysteries known.

Option 3: Breathing at table
Step 1: Go dragonborn and take the Heart aspect. Step 2: Breathe. Season with Entangling Exhalation and similar feats to taste.
Pros: Scales automatically. Game elements that affect breath weapons are sometimes pretty cool. Shadowcasters don't have too many interesting race-specific options, so going dragonborn isn't that big a cost.
Cons: 1d4 rounds to recharge means that you can't rely on this round after round, even if it probably will buy you a round early in each fight. Lines aren't usually as good as cones.

Option 4: Sleight of Umbral Hand
Take Criminal Background (City of Stormreach) to gain Sleight of Hand as a class skill. Use sight obscured and quicker than the eye to get a +10 (or better) to Sleight of Hand and to make SoH checks through umbral hand.
Pros: Feels weird and shadowcastery. Potentially rewards creative thinking.
Cons: Man, where to start? Tons of actions to set up before it actually works. All of those mysteries are limited in use (fundamentals are EVENTUALLY free, but not for a long time). No actual damage. Limited utility against non-humanoid opponents.

Option 5: Umbral Touch
Umbral touch lasts pretty much all encounter and is a reasonable trick to spam.
Pros: Semi-acceptable damage, at least when you first get it. Nice debuff effect. No feat investment needed.
Cons: A mystery that lasts all encounter is a better deal than you normally get, but it's still a mystery, so it'll only get you through ONE encounter. Plus, this is a personal thing, but I'm not thrilled with the rest of the Touch of Twilight path, so the investment is nontrivial. No scaling. Getting up in melee range isn't always wise on a shadowcaster chassis.

Option 6: Spellfire
Take Spellfire Wielder from Magic of Faerun, then find a source of magical energy to absorb and redirect. You can get a familiar with Shadow Familiar and turn it into a musteval guardinal or a lantern archon (each of which has at-will targetable SLAs you can absorb) with Celestial Familiar, if you want to wait that long.
Pros: Amusing as heck! Spellfire has a nice long range, too.
Cons: Takes a really long time to come online if you want to use the Celestial Familiar trick. Possible MAD issues. Can require outside help unless/until you get a proper familiar. Sometimes feat-heavy.

Option 7: Dark Flames
Undergo the "Ritual of Dark Flames" on pg. 11 of Lords of Darkness, which lets you shoot, um, dark flames that scale with your HD. Deals you 2 WIS damage when you use it, so the best option is to take Shape Soulmeld: strongheart vest and get a point of essentia from somewhere.
Pros: Scales automatically. Looks cool. Seems like the kind of thing a shadowcaster should do. Costs some XP to get in, but the gold cost is relatively trivial.
Cons: You really do need the strongheart vest with an essentia, so that'll cost you at least one feat plus your race or else two feats. Requires worshiping a specific deity and using really obscure material, and you have to be initiated into the ritual by a high-level NPC. Worst of all, for some reason the range is only 10 feet! The range weirds me the hell out, not gonna lie.

Option 8: Hooray for soulmelds
Start as an azurin, spend your bonus feat on Shape Soulmeld for the dissolving spittle or the lightning gauntlets, and enjoy your at-will 2d6 touch attack. Why yes, I have suggested this exact technique on other characters using Tome of Magic classes. Why do you ask?
Pros: Works perfectly at level 1, no questions asked. Truly good to go all day every day.
Cons: Doesn't scale even a little bit without spending a lot more feats and/or levels getting essentia. Long-term, going ranged means that you'll want the archery package and going melee means that you'll want to invest in surviving while in melee; each of those is a noticeable cost.

Option 9: Items
I dunno, surely there's some magic items that can help here? I don't actually have anything specific in mind.
Pros: You tell me, boss.
Cons: Gotta find the item in question and go through that whole process.

I'm genuinely not thrilled with any of these options. The downside to each one is significant enough that I'm skeptical that any of these options will really solve the problems. Still, I feel like this is worth discussing. What other options are out there? Again, no homebrew, no lost mystery progression (not even one level!), and early stuff is preferable to late stuff, but we're relatively open other than that. Whatcha got for me, everyone?

[WhamBamSam]

Wild Cohort will work pretty well at low levels and hold up somewhat for a little while thereafter.

You can use Share Soulmeld to keep your Dissolving Spittle relevant a bit longer by sharing it with your Shadow Familiar (maybe your Wild Cohort too if you're using it as a mount).

Lesser Mechanatrix is a decent race to keep Lightning Gauntlets useful past the point of being useful in combat.

The Dragonborn route can be used in conjunction with the Sleight of Umbral Hand one if you can PrC out into something else with Sleight of Hand as a class skill at some point. You can ditch Criminal Background when you go Dragonborn and pick up Entangling Exhalation in its place, since it requires the Dragonblood subtype. If you wanted the extra feat from being a Human or Strongheart Halfling, Shadowcaster 2 provides a generally pretty meh bonus feat that you can throw away in its place.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Option 9: Items
I dunno, surely there's some magic items that can help here? I don't actually have anything specific in mind.
Pros: You tell me, boss.
Cons: Gotta find the item in question and go through that whole process.

Off the top of my head, there's a Least option for a custom Weapon of Legacy that gives 10th level Scorching Ray at will, which is pretty decent damage for a fair while. Obviously this requires your DM allowing a custom Legacy Item, and involves going through the hoops of getting one working, but it does have the advantage that you don't have to shop for it.

[peacenlove]

At 1st level get a Long spear. Chaff monsters will think twice before approaching you. And that flank bonus you provide is better than a lower than 50% chance of doing 1d8 piercing damage. (Level 1, starter)
Wand of Arrow of dusk is a better crossbow that does job until you hit a guy with SR or an undead. (level 2-3)
Wand Chamber it in a spiked gauntlet so it stays relevant at higher levels.

Shadow familiar: Bat with Darkstalker feat as its first feat can scout the entire dungeon, making you relevant until the group acquires access to Arcane Eye. Even then its good to conserve resources. (Level 3)

Abuse Creeping darkness. Variant Enchanter gives you Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive and all knowledges as class skills and you do not lose skill points in the transfer. Sell the spell book for extra bucks. Dragonblooded Sorcerer nets you UMD. Stalwart battle sorcerer nets you a good HP pool. (Level 2+)

[Piggy Knowles]

You can get a kind of neutered HiPS by level 3 with the black candle fundamental plus Improved Diversion by taking a feat like Apprentice (Criminal) to get bluff as a class skill. Use black candle as a standard action to gain concealment, as a move action create a diversion, then take a 5' step into hiding. Two feats may seem like a lot of resources but being able to disappear into the darkness is pretty nice, especially for a night's long fingers-focused shadowcaster. DMGII also suggests that there can be other apprenticeships beyond what is listed in the book, so if you can finagle an Apprentice (Pickpocket) that gets bluff + sleight of hand, even better.

It's kind of cheating, but one of my favorite ways to play a single-classed shadowcaster that starts at level 1 is to... not. There are explicit rules that allow you to convert sorcerer or wizard levels to shadowcaster levels via the creeping darkness mechanic (see the sidebar on page 115). Start as a focused specialist conjurer with abrupt jaunt, which generally has a lot more to do in the low levels, and then when you level up as a shadowcaster, convert that wizard level to shadowcaster. This way you skip the absolute worst shadowcaster level entirely, and instead come on when you have an extra apprentice mystery, slightly better durations and Still Mystery as a bonus feat. Or, if you were interested in cheating bluff onto your skill list in order to qualify for Improved Diversion (see above), do this as a sorcerer; you explicitly keep your skills when you convert levels in this way despite the fact that the skill lists are different. That could free up a feat to let you work in some of the other suggestions, such as Shape Soulmeld (dissolving spittle) or Dreadful Wrath.

Fear effects are a classic, and shadowcasters have intimidate as a class skill and benefit from a high Charisma, as well as mysteries that can restrict movement to help induce cowering. Dreadful Wrath comes online at first level. Imperious Command and Frightful Presence come on a bit later but can also be used to good effect (especially the former).

Edit: missed the above edit, got sniped on the creeping darkness abuse. But seriously, it’s very useful at low levels!

[MinimanMidget]

I guess we're not seeing an E6 Iron Chef for Shadowcaster anytime soon?

[Zaq]

Wild Cohort will work pretty well at low levels and hold up somewhat for a little while thereafter.

You can use Share Soulmeld to keep your Dissolving Spittle relevant a bit longer by sharing it with your Shadow Familiar (maybe your Wild Cohort too if you're using it as a mount).

Lesser Mechanatrix is a decent race to keep Lightning Gauntlets useful past the point of being useful in combat.

The Dragonborn route can be used in conjunction with the Sleight of Umbral Hand one if you can PrC out into something else with Sleight of Hand as a class skill at some point. You can ditch Criminal Background when you go Dragonborn and pick up Entangling Exhalation in its place, since it requires the Dragonblood subtype. If you wanted the extra feat from being a Human or Strongheart Halfling, Shadowcaster 2 provides a generally pretty meh bonus feat that you can throw away in its place.

Wild Cohort is clever, definitely. Are there any decent shadowcaster-compatible PrCs that don’t lose progression and that offer Sleight of Hand?


Off the top of my head, there's a Least option for a custom Weapon of Legacy that gives 10th level Scorching Ray at will, which is pretty decent damage for a fair while. Obviously this requires your DM allowing a custom Legacy Item, and involves going through the hoops of getting one working, but it does have the advantage that you don't have to shop for it.

Ugh, legacy items. Yeah, that’s a reasonably powerful option if it works just like that, but ugh, legacy items.


At 1st level get a Long spear. Chaff monsters will think twice before approaching you. And that flank bonus you provide is better than a lower than 50% chance of doing 1d8 piercing damage. (Level 1, starter)
Wand of Arrow of dusk is a better crossbow that does job until you hit a guy with SR or an undead. (level 2-3)
Wand Chamber it in a spiked gauntlet so it stays relevant at higher levels.

Shadow familiar: Bat with Darkstalker feat as its first feat can scout the entire dungeon, making you relevant until the group acquires access to Arcane Eye. Even then its good to conserve resources. (Level 3)

Abuse Creeping darkness. Variant Enchanter gives you Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive and all knowledges as class skills and you do not lose skill points in the transfer. Sell the spell book for extra bucks. Dragonblooded Sorcerer nets you UMD. Stalwart battle sorcerer nets you a good HP pool. (Level 2+)

Creeping Darkness to poach class skills is clever, even if it kind of highlights all the wrong aspects of 3.5’s skill system.

I like the wand idea! Do fundamentals stay (Su) and therefore ignore SR when you stick them in a wand? For that matter, can you stick them in a wand at all? I’m pretty sure they’re described as mysteries and therefore you can, but I’d never considered the possibility before. (The downside is a slightly metagamey one—shadowcasters usually aren’t common, so unless you have a very permissive GM, it’ll be rare to have shadowcaster-created items available, and you can’t take the Craft Wand feat until a little later. But I guess you could collaborate with someone who has the feat.)

The familiar-as-scout is good for recon work if you’re comfortable sending your bundle of XP alone into hostile territory, but it doesn’t solve the problem of not having much to do with your standard actions once initiative is actually rolled. Also, I thought familiars didn’t really get feats? Psicrystals do, but familiars are kind of different, unless there’s more interesting language in the Shadow Familiar feat than I thought.

I have mixed feelings about the long spear suggestion, but level 1 is a strange beast indeed.


You can get a kind of neutered HiPS by level 3 with the black candle fundamental plus Improved Diversion by taking a feat like Apprentice (Criminal) to get bluff as a class skill. Use black candle as a standard action to gain concealment, as a move action create a diversion, then take a 5' step into hiding. Two feats may seem like a lot of resources but being able to disappear into the darkness is pretty nice, especially for a night's long fingers-focused shadowcaster. DMGII also suggests that there can be other apprenticeships beyond what is listed in the book, so if you can finagle an Apprentice (Pickpocket) that gets bluff + sleight of hand, even better.

It's kind of cheating, but one of my favorite ways to play a single-classed shadowcaster that starts at level 1 is to... not. There are explicit rules that allow you to convert sorcerer or wizard levels to shadowcaster levels via the creeping darkness mechanic (see the sidebar on page 115). Start as a focused specialist conjurer with abrupt jaunt, which generally has a lot more to do in the low levels, and then when you level up as a shadowcaster, convert that wizard level to shadowcaster. This way you skip the absolute worst shadowcaster level entirely, and instead come on when you have an extra apprentice mystery, slightly better durations and Still Mystery as a bonus feat. Or, if you were interested in cheating bluff onto your skill list in order to qualify for Improved Diversion (see above), do this as a sorcerer; you explicitly keep your skills when you convert levels in this way despite the fact that the skill lists are different. That could free up a feat to let you work in some of the other suggestions, such as Shape Soulmeld (dissolving spittle) or Dreadful Wrath.

Fear effects are a classic, and shadowcasters have intimidate as a class skill and benefit from a high Charisma, as well as mysteries that can restrict movement to help induce cowering. Dreadful Wrath comes online at first level. Imperious Command and Frightful Presence come on a bit later but can also be used to good effect (especially the former).

Edit: missed the above edit, got sniped on the creeping darkness abuse. But seriously, it’s very useful at low levels!

Criminal Background gets Bluff and Sleight of Hand, and unlike Apprentice, those skills don’t stop being class skills after level 5. (No one reads the apprenticeship section all the way through, but it’s quite explicit about that. I myself was guilty of making that mistake for years.) As far as your “neutered HiPS” idea goes, I guess it’s a way of kind of noping out of a fight after you’ve (maybe, in an extremely ideal situation) laid down a judicious mystery and don’t have much else to do to contribute, but I was hoping for something that would let you keep actively contributing on rounds when you don’t want to (or can’t) cast another mystery. Maybe with Sleight of Hand shenanigans, yeah, but that’s a noticeable investment. Also, does Improved Diversion let you STAY hidden with non-total concealment, or just BECOME hidden? Of course, one runs into skill point concerns before terribly long, but I suppose that’s the way of things.

Dreadful Wrath is an interesting angle that I hadn’t thought about. Maybe combine it with that feat that lets you make an Intimidate check to overawe someone at range and that usually isn’t great because it’s a standard action? I forget the name. It’s like Intimidating Strike but it doesn’t involve a weapon attack. I think. It’s obviously been a while since I looked at that one. I’ll open my books in a bit and start digging. Dreadful Wrath itself should, at a minimum, trigger on mysteries cast as arcane spells and on mysteries that involve attack rolls, though I’m not sure if it would trigger on SLA-mysteries or Su-mysteries. I’ll need to check the wording.


I guess we're not seeing an E6 Iron Chef for Shadowcaster anytime soon?

I’ve thought about it many times. Many, many times. The thing is that E6 is actually an unbelievably terrible environment for a Shadowcaster. I mean, you have a grand total of six mysteries per day, each one chosen in advance and locked in at the build level. Six. That’s nothing. And you have 1/2 BAB and 2+INT skills for those rounds when you aren’t using your six mysteries. Because of the path progression rules, it’s hard to break out and differentiate yourself. After the disaster that was the shugenja round (yeah, your spells known were constrained, but not THIS constrained, and they at least were true spontaneous casters), I’m worried that if I were to put shadowcaster out there as an ingredient, no one would bother putting together a build.

I’ve toyed with the idea of a special “E7” round to at least let the shadowcasters jump from six mysteries per day to thirteen per day, but that feels like putting my thumb on the scale against entrants who want to dip out of the SI. I’ve also considered just slapping down a round-specific houserule doubling mysteries per day, but I haven’t needed to lay down any similarly drastic* houserules before, so that feels a little awkward.

(*”Drastic” is a relative term here. If I were playing in or running an actual game, I’d consider straight up doubling mysteries per day to be a very mild houserule to make the class less janky. In a real game, I’d probably push for something significantly more drastic than that, like maybe having all or most of your mysteries recharge per encounter rather than per day. But in the context of the contest, which has so far stayed relatively close to RAW [plus the E6 ruleset itself], that’s a big jump.)

I’m not going to say it’ll never happen, but I would need to have multiple people proactively asking for it before I’d be confident that we’d get enough entries to fill up a podium.

If you or anyone else reading wants to spend time putting a dish together in prep and then wants to agitate for the round, I’m not going to call that cheating. Right now the contest’s biggest challenge is getting a healthy number of entrants, so I’m not necessarily currently super concerned about people working on potential future ingredients before a given round is officially launched if that means we get more dishes.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Perhaps there's a useful Psionic Power that one could pick up via the Hidden Power feat?

Entangling Ectoplasm maybe? Combine with Elan for some extra PP.

EDIT: Investing ranks in UMD and using Wands might not be a bad idea, either.

[WhamBamSam]

Relating to the longspear suggestion, I'm rather fond of Kobolds with Draconic Rite Ghostly Tail. It'll make your AoOs more of a threat with less melee investment (especially if you've got Mortalbane, which as a Shadowcaster you might go for anyway). You can also flank and 'threaten' with a non-proficient kusari-gama while still plinking with your crossbow if you want to get silly.

Creeping Darkness is sort of interesting with Kobold shenanigans as well, though more so as you get into later levels than at low ones. You can't trade away the effective level of casting from the Greater Draconic Rite, but it should stick around after you've traded away all your actual Sorcerer levels (as you'll only reduce your effective level of casting to 1, not 0), and you might be able to leverage it toward a Nocturmancer that doesn't lose Mystery progression or something, if you can cheese the spell level requirement a bit.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I'm guessing Gestalt is illegal for this challenge?

[peacenlove]

Creeping Darkness to poach class skills is clever, even if it kind of highlights all the wrong aspects of 3.5’s skill system.

I like the wand idea! Do fundamentals stay (Su) and therefore ignore SR when you stick them in a wand? For that matter, can you stick them in a wand at all? I’m pretty sure they’re described as mysteries and therefore you can, but I’d never considered the possibility before. (The downside is a slightly metagamey one—shadowcasters usually aren’t common, so unless you have a very permissive GM, it’ll be rare to have shadowcaster-created items available, and you can’t take the Craft Wand feat until a little later. But I guess you could collaborate with someone who has the feat.)

The familiar-as-scout is good for recon work if you’re comfortable sending your bundle of XP alone into hostile territory, but it doesn’t solve the problem of not having much to do with your standard actions once initiative is actually rolled. Also, I thought familiars didn’t really get feats? Psicrystals do, but familiars are kind of different, unless there’s more interesting language in the Shadow Familiar feat than I thought.

I have mixed feelings about the long spear suggestion, but level 1 is a strange beast indeed.




Every creature starts with a feat (Bat begins with Alertness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#alertness)) and a familiar is intelligent enough, for the PHB 2 Retraining rules to apply to it. Darkstalker has no prerequisite whatsoever so it can be a Familiar's first feat.


In addition to new items, mystery users create their own potions, scrolls, staffs, and wands. These items function based on the mystery’s level, and a mystery always functions like a spell when cast by an item, even if the caster level is high enough that a shadowcaster would use it as a supernatural ability.
...
In all respects, this process follows the standard rules for creating magic items (DMG 282–288).


Page 154 ToM. It has additional rules for crafting, most of them confusing.
Sadly an Arrow of Dusk wand allows for SR. Else every rogue out there would have 10.
Shroud of night requires Caul of Shadow, a fundamental, to be created so a Wand with a fundamental is totally legal.

Additional suggestions:
Martial study / stance.
Shadow blade technique as a maneuver to make sure that Life fades hits, leading you at level 9 to Assassins stance or if you go for early defense / offence (Child of Shadow/Island of Blades), at level 6 you have Shadow trickster for your Shadow Evocations/Afraid of the dark/Touch mysteries.
Touch spells are melee attacks so most maneuvers work on them (for example Crusader strike) if you decide to hold the charge.
Step of the wind, the stance, would be awesome but none of the early setting sun maneuvers appeal to a shadowcaster unless you have good dexterity (whisper gnome?) and abuse Mighty throw.

EDIT: Purify spell like ability (no CL requirement), Heighten spell like ability (CL 6) and Mortal bane apply to your spell likes. Purify in particular works wonders with (Favored) Black Fire and your hopefully good aligned tank. Plus it lasts rounds / level so if your party has other means of locking the target, you just contributed to 2 encounters.

[bj8534]

I know I’m a couple of years late to the party, but I’m delving into a Shadowcaster now myself. To contribute, I’d suggest Dark Speech, and maybe some taint oriented stuff. I don’t think they changed much in BoVD in the update, but I could be mistaken. Spellfire Weilder also crossed my mind as I was planning a progression. I opted against it because it didn’t feel right for me to have that on a Shadowcaster lore wise, but RAW, totally legit.
I actually came here after stumbling upon your Pathfinder Shadow Magic book via Reddit. I thought it was exceptional and was wondering if there’s a 3.5 version as I’m unfamiliar with the PF system(shame… shame…shame…). Another way I have found and, I believe, that still meets your criteria here is to use templates. Shadow creature or half vamp or dark template AND half vamp using the Unearthed Arcana buy off rules for Level Adjustment. Slows you down without really hitting you in the hit die at high levels where it matters most. Of course if you’re wanting to avoid LA at low levels, that doesn’t work.
Anyways, I’m here to bandy thoughts and ideas with you on the subject if you’re still of the mind.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: Thread Necro! Talk about staying power! Amirite?