Question about the Dungeoncrasher variant

[Hackulator]

you gain a special benefit when making a bull rush. If you force an opponent to move into a wall or other solid object, he stops as normal. However, your momentum crushes him against it, dealing an amount of bludgeoning damage equal to 4d6 points + twice your Strength bonus (if any).

What constitutes a "solid object". Most creatures are solid, if I slam one creature into another can I deal the dungeoncrasher damage?

[Troacctid]

Creatures are not objects.

[Hackulator]

If you are above them can you bull rush them into the ground?

[Malroth]

It does open up a bunch of "the ground is an object" shennagins but i think it's intended to be yes.

[Mike Miller]

Creatures are not objects.
I agree.


If you are above them can you bull rush them into the ground?

I would allow it. Dragons get crush. Perhaps it isn't the same, but I like the comparison.

[flappeercraft]

Depending on how silly on RAW you want to get, the enemies gear is composed of solid objects

*If only I knew how yo put blue text in mobile

[Mike Miller]

Depending on how silly on RAW you want to get, the enemies gear is composed of solid objects

*If only I knew how yo put blue text in mobile

You should have sub menus or be able to hold letters/numbers down to get the brackets needed for the color= input

[The Viscount]

If you do want to push one opponent into another one, it can be done using the Domino Rush tactical option of the Shock Trooper feat. Admittedly it just trips both of them instead of dealing damage, but it can be done.

[bean illus]

If you are above them can you bull rush them into the ground?

No. You have to bull rush them to crash them. There are feats that allow jump attacks and such. I would allow you to bull rush them into a hill that was that's tall as the Target, and inclined 30 degrees +, or a boulder half as tall as the target.

[ExLibrisMortis]

If you have flight (with perfect maneuverability, ideally), you can fly around 10' up and bull rush down. Directional Bull Rush (from Shock Trooper) lets you move people sideways when bull rushing (one square sideways per square forward), and I personally like to rule that you can rush people one square down per square forward, too.

[DrMotives]

The Power Dive feat from Draconomicon lets a flying creature use an overrun attack to knock land-based opponents prone and hit them with an extra free slam attack. So, can a flying dungeoncrasher fighter with power dive stack all this up into a single action?

[gomipile]

No. You have to bull rush them to crash them. There are feats that allow jump attacks and such. I would allow you to bull rush them into a hill that was that's tall as the Target, and inclined 30 degrees +, or a boulder half as tall as the target.

I don't see anything in the bull rush rules that prevents a character that can fly from initiating a bull rush from above.

[bean illus]

I don't see anything in the bull rush rules that prevents a character that can fly from initiating a bull rush from above.

Well being wrong is something that happens to me on a regular basis, so there's that.

But this is what I was thinking:

The presence of Feats and rules that include jumping, flying, Etc, imply to me that you need those situations for special attack damage to be applicable.

Also, bull rush is a strength check. That implies to me that you need traction to check your strength against the other. Though obviously flying would work, without a means of propulsion there is no means of traction.
I know that during my prime I was a trained combatant. And if someone of my equal ability had launched themselves 10 feet or more through the air at me, I would have snatched them out of the air and pounded them face-first into the floor. No question.

Anyway, like I said, I've been wrong before. But as I see it, no traction no bull rush.

[Hackulator]

Well being wrong is something that happens to me on a regular basis, so there's that.

But this is what I was thinking:

The presence of Feats and rules that include jumping, flying, Etc, imply to me that you need those situations for special attack damage to be applicable.

Also, bull rush is a strength check. That implies to me that you need traction to check your strength against the other. Though obviously flying would work, without a means of propulsion there is no means of traction.
I know that during my prime I was a trained combatant. And if someone of my equal ability had launched themselves 10 feet or more through the air at me, I would have snatched them out of the air and pounded them face-first into the floor. No question.

Anyway, like I said, I've been wrong before. But as I see it, no traction no bull rush.

You're trying to apply the laws of physics to D&D though, something which is almost always guaranteed to cause issues because the rules of D&D have nothing to do with the laws of physics.

[Reprimand]

If you have flight (with perfect maneuverability, ideally), you can fly around 10' up and bull rush down. Directional Bull Rush (from Shock Trooper) lets you move people sideways when bull rushing (one square sideways per square forward), and I personally like to rule that you can rush people one square down per square forward, too.

Holy footdive Dr. Doom Batman!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CbcaTQ4xSU

[bean illus]

You're trying to apply the laws of physics to D&D though, something which is almost always guaranteed to cause issues because the rules of D&D have nothing to do with the laws of physics.

That's a handy one liner. I bet you get to use it a lot.

What problem do you see in requiring propulsion/ traction for bull rush to work the way it has in 99.9% of all cases for decades?

I'm sure you'll do it your way. Same here.

[Hackulator]

That's a handy one liner. I bet you get to use it a lot.

What problem do you see in requiring propulsion/ traction for bull rush to work the way it has in 99.9% of all cases for decades?

I'm sure you'll do it your way. Same here.

I mean, a flying character certainly has propulsion, otherwise they couldn't you know, fly. Let's put it this way, why do you think a large, heavy dude flying at you from above and smashing you into the ground shouldn't do a bunch of damage?

[bean illus]

We might be saying the same thing. Sorry (if that's true).

I'm saying 'yes, flying is propulsion, has traction, and works with bull rush'.

No, falling does not not have traction, and no bull rush.

The original comment I responded to asked if being "above" worked. Above, by itself, is not enough.

Jumping has its own feat chain.

[Hackulator]

We might be saying the same thing. Sorry (if that's true).

I'm saying 'yes, flying is propulsion, has traction, and works with bull rush'.

No, falling does not not have traction, and no bull rush.

The original comment I responded to asked if being "above" worked. Above, by itself, is not enough.

Jumping has its own feat chain.

Ah well then it was simply a misunderstanding and we are in agreement, I also would not allow someone to Bull Rush while falling. I could have been more specific in my original question.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Yeah, I think it's fair to allow bull-rushes into the ground only if you're flying down at them and not jumping or fallling.


If you have flight (with perfect maneuverability, ideally), you can fly around 10' up and bull rush down. Directional Bull Rush (from Shock Trooper) lets you move people sideways when bull rushing (one square sideways per square forward), and I personally like to rule that you can rush people one square down per square forward, too.
Shock Trooper is an amazing feat for Dungeoncrashers. It makes it much easier to push people into walls, pillars, etc. We had a Dungeoncrasher in the party once that had Shock Trooper and Combat Brute and they synergized nicely. He'd Directed Bullrush people into walls and then benefit from Advancing Blows and if no walls were around he'd Heedless Charge into a Momentum Swing. Of course, he also had a prestige class that let him do armorspike damage to anyone he bullrushed.