Lycanthrope build suggestions

[Buterbean]

Hey playground I need some thought on my current idea for a character.

Current level 11, no multi-class penalities, 36point buy

Idea: gestalt game, +4 La free (RHD doesn't matter we get nothing from it), can prestige on both sides, but if I take a prestige class it has to stay on that side.

With Lycanthropy (natural) is +3 la I was thinking of doing something like Dire lion or bear (large animals, I wouldn't get anything from the RHD so it doesn't count toward ECL, but I would get the bonus to modifiers and the special attacks of the animal). My goal is to be able to activate war hulk while in hybrid form to go from a "feeble" looking suspect to a real monster, then back when needed to do anything other than straight combat.

So I was thinking doing a druid on one side, then either fighter or monk on the other side to get into war hulk and I was also thinking of maybe 3 levels of black blood Hunter (idk if I should go higher).

Some questions I have are
1. What should I spend my last +1 la on?
2. What animal would you think would be best to mix with considering getting nothing from the RHD
3. Would trying to get fist of the forest or deepwarden in the build be good for ac? Or better to not delay war hulk and possibly black blood hunter?
4. Any must have items for a build like this?

I think I'm going to focus more on natural attacks/unarmed for combat, but will have the backup of spellcasting from druid to help in other situations

Thanks for taking the time to read

[Hackulator]

Being a Lycanthrope is one of the rare situations where you can play a monk and be pretty awesome, so I'd consider that.

[Buterbean]

Being a Lycanthrope is one of the rare situations where you can play a monk and be pretty awesome, so I'd consider that.

Ya that's what I was thinking, never really touch monk, but seems like it could go good here

[Hackulator]

Ya that's what I was thinking, never really touch monk, but seems like it could go good here

As for what animal, the thing with a Lycanthrope with the rules you described is that you can get an INSANE amount of value so the question is, how far do you want to go. For example, by rule you could be a Were-Legendary-Tiger and in hybrid form you would get Pounce, +22 strength, +8 Dex and +14 Con.

[Buterbean]

As for what animal, the thing with a Lycanthrope with the rules you described is that you can get an INSANE amount of value so the question is, how far do you want to go. For example, by rule you could be a Were-Legendary-Tiger and in hybrid form you would get Pounce, +22 strength, +8 Dex and +14 Con.

That sounds amazing haha, I mean the dire bear gets +20 strength by its self, so the extra 2 from legendary-tiger doesn't seem that far off. Honesty I'm guna be getting a lot of strength from war hulk it's self so I'm not worried about that. For animal I'm more looking at what give me the best special attacks and is a large animal for hybrid.

[Hackulator]

That sounds amazing haha, I mean the dire bear gets +20 strength by its self, so the extra 2 from legendary-tiger doesn't seem that far off. Honesty I'm guna be getting a lot of strength from war hulk it's self so I'm not worried about that. For animal I'm more looking at what give me the best special attacks and is a large animal for hybrid.

Still some kind of tiger cause it gives you pounce. Why War Hulk though?

[MishimaRyu]

1. What should I spend my last +1 la on?

I think I'm going to focus more on natural attacks/unarmed for combat, but will have the backup of spellcasting from druid to help in other situationsI like Goliath, and I think he rules as Monk (count as large for grapple, disarm, etc; and DM might allow your hands do large damage as well).
I don't know a thing about lycanthrope rules, but if you pointed "large animal" due to size restrictions, Goliath may put it to Huge animals.

And crazy things happens when you search for Huge Animals (like were-elephant haha).

The bad side is... you will lose access to Deepwarden (or you will need to expent 3 levels in Stoneblessed).

[WhamBamSam]

Still some kind of tiger cause it gives you pounce. Why War Hulk though?Probably because gestalt. He can get BAB on the other side.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014310&postcount=117) is a favorite lycanthropy build of mine that uses a non-lycanthrope point of LA. Many of the adaptations I listed can be easily worked into gestalt as well.

If you're just looking to be a big bruiser. Half-Giant is a pretty decent +1 LA, and still has a type that lycanthrope can be applied to (unlike the usual choice of Powerful Build race, Goliath, which is a monstrous humanoid).

[Hackulator]

Probably because gestalt. He can get BAB on the other side.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014310&postcount=117) is a favorite lycanthropy build of mine that uses a non-lycanthrope point of LA. Many of the adaptations I listed can be easily worked into gestalt as well.

If you're just looking to be a big bruiser. Half-Giant is a pretty decent +1 LA, and still has a type that lycanthrope can be applied to (unlike the usual choice of Powerful Build race, Goliath, which is a monstrous humanoid).

I just feel like having zero ranks in spot and listen is not worth it.

[Buterbean]

Still some kind of tiger cause it gives you pounce. Why War Hulk though?
Just to be the big beat stick to help the more fragile party members, while still being a full caster.


Probably because gestalt. He can get BAB on the other side.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21014310&postcount=117)

That link won't load on my phone :(

[Buterbean]

I like Goliath, and I think he rules as Monk (count as large for grapple, disarm, etc; and DM might allow your hands do large damage as well).
I don't know a thing about lycanthrope rules, but if you pointed "large animal" due to size restrictions, Goliath may put it to Huge animals.

And crazy things happens when you search for Huge Animals (like were-elephant haha).

The bad side is... you will lose access to Deepwarden (or you will need to expent 3 levels in Stoneblessed).
Goliath can't be a Lycanthrope as is unfortunately

[Buterbean]

If you're just looking to be a big bruiser. Half-Giant is a pretty decent +1 LA

My DM dislikes psionics, so I think he would rule that out

[Buterbean]

I just feel like having zero ranks in spot and listen is not worth it.

I'll only have 0 ranks while in war hulk mode which is only activated when I'm in my hybrid or animal form, while in my normal form I'm perfectly fine

[Hackulator]

I'll only have 0 ranks while in war hulk mode which is only activated when I'm in my hybrid or animal form, while in my normal form I'm perfectly fine

I suppose if your DM house rules that its ok but RAW I don't think so. Also if you are ever put in an antimagic field you are just going to straight up die.

[Buterbean]

I suppose if your DM house rules that its ok but RAW I don't think so. Also if you are ever put in an antimagic field you are just going to straight up die.

I can only qualify for war hulk while being large or bigger, hence the need of a large animal for my base. While I'm not large I can't be in war hulk hence not having No Time To Think granting me my skill ranks. Most things put in an anti-magic field have a high mortality rate anyways.

[Buterbean]

Another question ive come across, do I also gain size increases when going into hybrid form, or is that already calculated from the base animal?

[Buufreak]

Okay, ignoring the insanity that is giving all the good of anything without the HD tacked on, my standard suggestion for a lycanthrope would be totemist. The amount of natural attack support built into it is ridiculous, not to mention all the extras you get on top of that. Why work with 2 claws and a bite when you can have 6 claws, 2 bites, a tail swipe, and at will teleporting?

[WhamBamSam]

That link won't load on my phone :(I've had trouble with giantitp links on mobile browsers as well. If you search 'Iron Chef Optimization LXXIX' the thread will come up. The build in question is called Tocke of Nessus.


My DM dislikes psionics, so I think he would rule that outYou could ask him about going Dragonborn, which would cause it to lose everything besides Powerful Build, but would qualify it for draconic soulmelds if you go with the Totemist suggestion. Or just ask for the psionics to be removed, since then you're just left with a worse Goliath that can qualify for lycanthrope.


I can only qualify for war hulk while being large or bigger, hence the need of a large animal for my base. While I'm not large I can't be in war hulk hence not having No Time To Think granting me my skill ranks. Most things put in an anti-magic field have a high mortality rate anyways.Many argue that you can only disqualify yourself from PrCs in CWar and CArc, but if that's how it's ruled at your table, that's sort of a slick solution. Kind of a problem in that you need to burn actions changing form in combat though.


Okay, ignoring the insanity that is giving all the good of anything without the HD tacked on, my standard suggestion for a lycanthrope would be totemist. The amount of natural attack support built into it is ridiculous, not to mention all the extras you get on top of that. Why work with 2 claws and a bite when you can have 6 claws, 2 bites, a tail swipe, and at will teleporting?I think he has to eat the HD, at least on one side of the gestalt, and just gets the LA free.

I'd rule that you only get 4 claws with the Girallon arms, since two of the claws are on your regular hands.

[Buterbean]

I've had trouble with giantitp links on mobile browsers as well. If you search 'Iron Chef Optimization LXXIX' the thread will come up. The build in question is called Tocke of Nessus.

You could ask him about going Dragonborn, which would cause it to lose everything besides Powerful Build, but would qualify it for draconic soulmelds if you go with the Totemist suggestion. Or just ask for the psionics to be removed, since then you're just left with a worse Goliath that can qualify for lycanthrope.

Many argue that you can only disqualify yourself from PrCs in CWar and CArc, but if that's how it's ruled at your table, that's sort of a slick solution. Kind of a problem in that you need to burn actions changing form in combat though.

I think he has to eat the HD, at least on one side of the gestalt, and just gets the LA free.

I'd rule that you only get 4 claws with the Girallon arms, since two of the claws are on your regular hands.

Ya my DM rules if you lose pre reqs, you loose the PRC, but if you get them back you get the PRC back.

As for the half giant/dragonborn thing could work, but I'd rather be a dwarf to get deepwarden. Unless you think it would be better to use those 2 levels elsewhere and make up for it in armor, I'll have a lower Dex than con with this build.

Nope the HD is "free" as well, I just don't get anything from it(saves, Bab, feats etc...) Instead I use my character level and keep what ever feats I get normally in all forms. If I wanted I could take the HD on one side to get the bonuses.

[Buufreak]

I think he has to eat the HD, at least on one side of the gestalt, and just gets the LA free.

I'd rule that you only get 4 claws with the Girallon arms, since two of the claws are on your regular hands.

That's not how I was reading it. It sounds like he can pick weretiger and get a mountain of strength and con with no HD attached.

And that is your ruling, which doesn't exactly hold water at his table. By RAW, you have claw attacks, and the soulmelds give claw attacks. There is no specification of a replacement of hands or a limitation based on limbs. If you need to envision it as an arm with 3 claws on the end of it, go ahead.

[Buterbean]

Okay, ignoring the insanity that is giving all the good of anything without the HD tacked on, my standard suggestion for a lycanthrope would be totemist. The amount of natural attack support built into it is ridiculous, not to mention all the extras you get on top of that. Why work with 2 claws and a bite when you can have 6 claws, 2 bites, a tail swipe, and at will teleporting?

Would suggest this over doing a druid on one side? Or in place of monk? Also should I even worry about trying to fit war hulk in? Since the only thing I'll be getting from it is strength, as the rest of the class gives stuff for melee weapons? Granted the strength is nice.

Also I think I'm either guna take Draconic template or maybe Lolth touched if I can atone for being shifted to CE as I revert to NE as a druid.

[Abzalon]

Hi there,

I was in your position once, and played a were tiger monk... until the 17th level, it was a weird game, but it works quite well though I was simply a beatstick and would have liked some more spells.

If you want to go bonkers go for a lolth touched (mm 4 or 5 LA +1, +6 Str and Con, immunity to fear), Lesser Maeluth (Fiend Folio,a dwarf tiefling kind of thing) with your chosen were-thingy applied and you're already at +6 str, +10 con (without any transformation). Instead of lolth touched, you might want to consider mineral warrior to prevent problems with your alignement..

For your were beast, dire bear looks impressive as hell +20 Str, +2 dex, +8 con, but the were legendary tiger mentionned before is better so...

As to the classes 2 level of warshaper, 1 level of fist of the forest and 2 of deepwarden should do plenty for your AC and defense (2 times your Con to AC, immunity to crits, +4 str and con while transformed...)

So for your progression, Fight 1 / Monk 2 / Lion Barb 1/ Fof 1 / warsh 2 / War hulk 4 // Dru 11 there might be issues with your alignement though if you chose to go the lolth touched route (CE vs L for the monk and N for the druid)

if we do some quick math on that, you get +26 (were legendary tiger with warshaper), +8 (war hulk), +6 (if you go lolth touched) or +2 (in case of mineral warrior), +16 (enhancement with bite of the were bear because why not, you're a druid so ...) for a nice total of +56 or +52 to your base str. A +16 (were legendary tiger with warshaper), +4 (maeluth), +6 (lolth touched) or +4 (mineral warrior) and +8 (enhancement with bite of the were bear) for a nice +32/30 to your base con. An AC going easily through the roof with those buffs (+16/15 from con alone, +17 natural + your wis, dex and potentially a mage armor spell from your friendly caster)....

[Buterbean]

Hi there,

I was in your position once, and played a were tiger monk... until the 17th level, it was a weird game, but it works quite well though I was simply a beatstick and would have liked some more spells.

If you want to go bonkers go for a lolth touched (mm 4 or 5 LA +1, +6 Str and Con, immunity to fear), Lesser Maeluth (Fiend Folio,a dwarf tiefling kind of thing) with your chosen were-thingy applied and you're already at +6 str, +10 con (without any transformation). Instead of lolth touched, you might want to consider mineral warrior to prevent problems with your alignement..

For your were beast, dire bear looks impressive as hell +20 Str, +2 dex, +8 con, but the were legendary tiger mentionned before is better so...

As to the classes 2 level of warshaper, 1 level of fist of the forest and 2 of deepwarden should do plenty for your AC and defense (2 times your Con to AC, immunity to crits, +4 str and con while transformed...)

So for your progression, Fight 1 / Monk 2 / Lion Barb 1/ Fof 1 / warsh 2 / War hulk 4 // Dru 11 there might be issues with your alignement though if you chose to go the lolth touched route (CE vs L for the monk and N for the druid)

if we do some quick math on that, you get +26 (were legendary tiger with warshaper), +8 (war hulk), +6 (if you go lolth touched) or +2 (in case of mineral warrior), +16 (enhancement with bite of the were bear because why not, you're a druid so ...) for a nice total of +56 or +52 to your base str. A +16 (were legendary tiger with warshaper), +4 (maeluth), +6 (lolth touched) or +4 (mineral warrior) and +8 (enhancement with bite of the were bear) for a nice +32/30 to your base con. An AC going easily through the roof with those buffs (+16/15 from con alone, +17 natural + your wis, dex and potentially a mage armor spell from your friendly caster)....

thanks for the pretty good breakdown, only thing that wouldn't work would be Fist of the forest. I would lose while form changed due to losing the pre reqs with war hulks No time to think, but i would have it while not in hybrid/animal form.

I looked at mineral warrior, but didnt know if i wanted to loose the -2 to wis, but it prob wont matter due to me just using buff spells and such. I'll have to check out this Maeluth template tho...

Edit: just realized im guna lose deepwarden also as a war hulk hmmm, maybe ill change war hulk out all together

[Abzalon]

forgot about the "you have 0 ranks in your mental skills" from the war hulk.

You would probably be better off just going fight 1 / monk 2 / barb 1 (lion totem) / fof 1 / war 4 / deep war 2 // Dru 11. You will get more AC and longer reach. you get a +2 wis from being a lycan anyway, so the -2 from mineral warrior might not be so bad in the end.

you would lose 8 str, but would get to use your character "intelligently" while transformed. It's a win in my book ^^

[Buterbean]

forgot about the "you have 0 ranks in your mental skills" from the war hulk.

You would probably be better off just going fight 1 / monk 2 / barb 1 (lion totem) / fof 1 / war 4 / deep war 2 // Dru 11. You will get more AC and longer reach. you get a +2 wis from being a lycan anyway, so the -2 from mineral warrior might not be so bad in the end.

you would lose 8 str, but would get to use your character "intelligently" while transformed. It's a win in my book ^^

im thinking as much as well, thanks again for your ideas

[GeminiVeil]

The rules are that the HD, and anything directly based of the HD, are lost. So no HP, BAB, saves, feats, etc. Basically, removing the HD altogether.

It's a custom Monstrous campaign. Somewhat high OP, as long as no one abuses it. Everyone has been pretty tame so far with how they've played.
Though I didn't realize my players would come here for build advice. :P
Oh well. Carry on then.

[Buterbean]

Though I didn't realize my players would come here for build advice. :P
Oh well. Carry on then.

Hey this place is full of information! They always lead me to looking at even more things.