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cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 11:26 AM
This WAS a guide to STR monks but I am changing it due to the fact that STR monks are strictly worse than regular ones.

Listen. This is my first guide. If you have criticism of any kind, leave it down in the comments, as I will gladly read it and try to change. Thanks. Also note that I am using many things from EvilAnagram's guides, as they are all very well formatted and easy to read. Thanks again.

Her fists a blur as they detect an incoming hail of arrows, a half-elf springs over a barricade and throws herself into the massed ranks of hobgoblins on the other side. She whirls among them, knocking their blows aside and sending them reeling, until at last she stands alone.
Taking a deep breath, a human covered in tattoos settles into a battle stance. As the first charging orcs reach him, he exhales and a blast of fire roars from his mouth, engulfing his foes.
Moving with the silence of the night, a black-clad halfling steps into a shadow beneath an arch and
emerges from another inky shadow on a balcony a stone's throw away. She slides her blade free of its cloth-wrapped scabbard and peers through the open window at the tyrant prince, so vulnerable in the grip of sleep.
Whatever their discipline, monks are united in their ability to magically harness the energy that flows in their bodies. Whether channeled as a striking display of combat prowess or a subtler focus of defensive ability and speed, this energy infuses all that a monk does. (PHB 76)

Color Scheme
This is mandatory. The only reason why you wouldn't pick this is for RP.
This is amazing and useful in many/most situations.
This is very good, but not quite phenomenal.
This is decent. It's good if you have room for it.
Bad. It will be extremely rare that it's useful at all.
Situational or too DM-dependent to be good.

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Ability Scores
Strength: Too generally useful to dump, but won't be as good as DEX.
Dexterity: Your main stat. AC, Initiative, Attacking, there are so many things you can use this for. Try for at LEAST 16 at level 1.
Constitution: As a monk, you will likely be up in the front lines, taking hits due to your lower ac, so try to start with a good score in this ability, at least 14.
Intelligence: You're a monk. You punch things. You don't need to know how to do advanced calculus.
Wisdom: Here we go! This determines our ac, DCs, and how good we are at what is arguably the best skill in the game; perception. Try for 16 at level 1.
Charisma: Spending your entire life away from others, meditating, probably isn't so good for your speaking.

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Player's Handbook
Hill Dwarf: The basic Dwarf package is solid, but it hurts to not have a DEX boost in the early levels. If you're starting at later levels, this is Light Blue.
Mountain Dwarf: Strictly worse than Hill Dwarves. A boost to a secondary and tertiary stat isn't good enough to make this useful.
High Elf: Dexterity is great, as is the extra cantrip- use it on, for example, firebolt, or another ranged cantrip unless you're going sun soul. However, Int is useless. The Trance, Perception, and Fey Ancestry are extremely nice, though.
Wood Elf: About the same as a High Elf, but slightly better due to the higher move speed, and WIS boost. An great choice.
Drow: The spells and DEX boost are nice and compliment a way of shadow monk, but the rest of the package really does hurt.
Lightfoot Halfling: Halfling features are really nice, as it the DEX, but the charisma is wasted.
Stout Halfling: Again, Halfling features are great, and this also boosts a secondary stat boosts.
Human: Plus one to every stat is pretty solid.
Variant Human: Everyone likes options, and this gives you the option of a feat.
Dragonborn: A worse Mountain Dwarf. The AoE is nice in early levels, but scales terribly and losing out on DEX or CON or WIS hurts a lot.
Forest Gnome: Gnome Cunning is pretty sweet, and Dexterity is great, as are the advantages on magic saves. Int is basically useless, though. It’s not a bad choice.
Rock Gnome: See above, but sub CON for DEX and add tinkering, which makes it slightly worse. Not the best choice, but not the worst.
Half-Elf: Well, you get CHA, which is useless. But any other two stats you want. And some skill proficiency. And darkvision. It’s… pretty damn sweet.
Half-Orc: A pretty situational choice. Boosts to STR and CON, of which only CON is useful, but the saving grace is a 'don't die once per long rest' ability. Blue if you can convince your DM to let Savage Attack work for your unarmed attacks.
Tiefling: The CHA and INT are perfectly useless, but once again the saving grace is the spells. They... kinda suck. So swap em' out for a brand new set of wings using the winged variant from the SCAG. If your DM says no, this becomes purple.


Dungeon Master's Guide
Aasimar: The spell set and CHA boost isn't great, but you get resistances.
Eladrin: Perfectly okay. Dexterity and teleportation are great, but INT is unnecessary.


Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
Duergar: A decent Monk… indoors. If you can frequently find advantage to cancel out that Sunlight Sensitivity, it's better.
Deep Gnome: Don't pick this. The forest gnome is better.
Ghostwise Halfling: About equal to Stout (personally I'd say stout is better but it really depends on your campaign for this one) but psychic stuff instead of poison resistance.


Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes
Gith: Githzerai is a solid choice- although the Int point is wasted, a +2 to your main stat is very helpful. And advantages make a difference. Githyanki's +2 STR is wasted.


Volo's Guide to Monsters
Aasimar: A +2 boost to a dump stat really hurts. Boosting your primary or secondary stat (WIS or CON) on top of a healing ability, two resistances, and the daily ability to channel the divine power of heaven to smite your enemies, however, is really freaking good.
Firbolg: +2 WIS boost? Yes please! And powerful build? AND magic AND invisibility?
Goliath: A secondary and a dump stat. However, an extra proficiency plus the defensive feature might be helpful.
Kenku: +2 to a primary is great! And a +1 boost to WIS? Nice! Plus proficiencies? Neat. Not speaking kinda sucks though.
Lizardfolk: Slightly better than, but similar to, Hill dwarf.
Tabaxi: CHA boost is bad, but DEX and decent mobility features are pretty nice. Skills are also pretty helpful.
Triton: Boost to CON is nice, but the CHA and STR are wasted. Spells and resistance make this black.


Tortle Package
Tortle: Natural armor, holding your breath, extra proficiency, and Shell Defense. Perfect for a STR monk, though.


Volo's Monstrous Races
Bugbear: Like a Goliath, but with reach instead of damage reduction. A perfectly okay choice.
Goblin: A primary and a secondary, extra damage every day, and a bonus action disengage. This is a surprisingly good pairing.
Hobgoblin: The only thing this offers is Saving Face and some CON, and that's just not enough.
Kobold: +2 to DEX is great, and Pack Tactics makes up for the -2 to STR by a lot.
Orc: It's pretty bad. The int reduction hurts less than it would a caster, and the rest of this is actually okay. Half-orcs are better, though.
Yuan-Ti Pureblood: The magic resistance and extra spells are very nice, but the ASIs are wasted.


Elemental Evil
Aarakocra: Both primaries are boosted and 50' unlimited flight makes this Gold.
Genasi: All the Genasi options provide a CON boost and some CON spells. This is generally a pretty good thing. Air and Water are great, but Fire and Earth just fall short.


Unearthed Arcana supplements have provided a few new options:

Eberron
Changeling: The ASIs are okay with a +1 to DEX, but the change appearance really help the master of mind and body aesthetic.

Shifters: The DEX boost is great, and unless you pick Longtooth (Don't pick longtooth) you get a +2 boost to a primary or secondary, and some extra action on the side.

Warforged: All warforged are at least blue, but the Envoy and Skirmisher are both Light Blue.


Guildmaster's Guide to Ravinica
Minotaur: 1d6 Unarmed Strikes at level one, decent ASIs, and a skill. A decent choice.
Centaur: +WIS makes this a decent choice right out of the gate, better move speed, and an extra skill put this solidly in the black, despite the lack of +DEX.
Simic Hybrid: Better ac, speed, or ranged attacks make this a great choice, as well as being able to choose wether you want to focus on DEX or WIS.
Vedalken: The +2 INT is wasted, but the +1 WIS is not. The advantage on mental saving throws is enough to make up for the bad ASI and more. Additionally, an extra proficiency with an extra d4 bumps this race from blue to light blue.
Loxodon: Great ASIs, and advantage on Perception, Investigation, and Survival, as well as a trunk for carrying your Small friends makes up for the lack of +DEX.

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Way of the Drunken Master (From XGtE)
Bonus Proficiencies: (Prof. in Preformance+brewer's supplies) Nice. Now you can act drunk, fight drunk, and BE DRUNK.
Drunken Technique: Now for only 1 ki point, you can: run extra better (+10 speed), not get hit as you're running extra better (disengage), and have two bonus action fists (activates on flurry of blows).
Tipsy Sway: Leap to your feet is okay (5' to get up from prone), but the REAL good stuff is redirect attack (spend 1 ki to have a hit directed at you hit someone within 5' instead). Stand next to the tanky barbarian and NEVER GET HIT a number of times equal to your ki.
Drunkard's Luck: (spend 2 ki to cancel disadvantage) No disadvantage, ever seems pretty nice.
Intoxicated Frenzy:(flurry of blows can hit 3 extra people as long as they are different people) If you're ever in a situation where you would use this, use your drunken technique instead and run as fast as you can.

Way of the Four Elements: No. But if you really REALLY want to, dip a level in sorcerer and grab the 4 elemental cantrips. It's basically the same thing. Oh, and if you do it into Wild Magic, that's 1 extra advantage per day, since you WON'T BE CASTING SPELLS BECAUSE THIS TRADITION IS TERRIBLE. You still want to play the avatar? Fine. The great ones: Sweeping Cinder Strike, Clench of the North Wind, Eternal Mountain Defense, Ride the Wind, River of Hungry Flame, Wave of Rolling Earth. The okay ones: Fist of the Four Thunders, Water Whip, Flames of the Phoenix, Mist Stance, Breath of Winter. The situational ones: Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air, Shape the Flowing River, Gong of the Summit. The bad one: Rush of the Gale Spirits.

Way of the Kensei (XGtE): Personally, I don't like this subclass, so I may seem overly dismissive, but here we go anyways.
Path of the Kensei:This is why you chose this subclass. Kensei Weapons- Pick a melee and ranged weapon. You are now proficient with them, and additionally they count as 'Kensei Weapons' aka special monk weapons. Aka 1d10 WHIP WHOO. Agile Parry - aka +2 ac Kensei Shot - Use a bonus action to deal an extra d4 on your ranged attack that turn Way of the Brush - Ribbon.
One with the Blade: Now your kensei weapons are magical and also if you hit you can spend a ki pt. to deal extra damage.
Sharpen the Blade: Now you can spend ki to make your weapon kill things better. Pretty cool, but by the time you get this, you probably already have at LEAST +1 weapons.
Unnering Accuracy - Did I miss? Are you sure? Are you REALLY SURE?

Way of the Long Death (SCAG):Never die.
Touch of Death: With some coordination, this can go a long way. But remember, Temp HP doesn't stack.
Hour of Reaping: No cooldown? No cooldown! Spam this all day long and NEVER BE HIT!
Mastery of Death:You will never die. That's it. Once you reach this level, you are a lich.
Touch of the Long Death: More setup than the Open Hand save-or-die, but the payoff is 20d10 neucrotic damage. 20d10!

Way of the Open Hand:The Monk's straight upgrade subclass.
Open Hand Technique: Nice. Very few creatures have good STR saving throws, so grapple them near a cliff, punch them, and YEET them right off to their death.
Wholeness of Body: Discount Second Wind.
Tranquility: If you wanted to not punch things, you should've picked cleric.
Quivering Palm:One of 5e's very few save-or-dies. Always good.

Way of Shadow: Darkness. No parents. Lego Batman is saaaad.
Shadow Arts: Not very useful (at least in my experience).
Shadow Step:Did you want a free 60' teleport? Because I heard you wanted a free 60' teleport.
Cloak of Shadows: Good for hiding, bad for fighting.
Opportunist: Pretty nice.

Way of the Sun Soul (XGtE): DON'T STOP DON'T STOP WE'RE IN LUCK NOW DON'T STOP THERE'S SO MUCH TO BE FOUN- jk but this is actually every anime where they blast their spirit energy.
Radiant Sun Bolt: 30' magic punches of power.
Searing Arc Strike: The AoE that Monks desperately need.
Searing Sunburst: Radiant Fireball. For 4 Ki points. Why? Who knows. Who cares. It's great.
Sun Shield:Deal 10 damage to your enemies when they hit you. You are now a literal humanoid torch.

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Multiclassing Monk (From PeteNutButter's Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide)

Monk/Barbarian: Light Blue if you're a tortle STR monk, as that makes this MC STR-based and not a MAD mess.

Monk/Bard: A monk who dips bard gains access to some skills, spells and jack of all trades. If a monk wants spells they are best left to picking a WIS-based class. If they want skills, they can get rogue. There is little to no reason to attempt this MAD build. Probably best avoided.

Monk/Cleric: A monk who dips cleric gains access to some spells, and cool domain features. The spells go great on a monk who typically lacks anything to concentrate on, but already has a high wisdom. This is a great combination that has little drawbacks. As long as the monk picks up extra attack, it’s hard to go wrong here.

Monk/Druid: A monk who dips druid gains access to some spells and maybe Wildshape. Wildshape won’t be very useful in combat as a dip, but still useful for stealth or exploration. The spells are a great addition to the monk who already has a high wisdom, and nothing to concentrate on. The lack of metal armor is no love lost here, and your team will be happy to have one more person that can heal. The cleric option is slightly better, but this is still overall quite strong.

Monk/Fighter: A monk who dips fighter gains a fighting style, action surge and possibly an archetype. Each subclass can have it's appeal for a monk. A great dip, best taking exactly 4 levels of it, so as not to lose an ASI or double up on extra attack.

Monk/Paladin: A monk who dips paladin, gains a fighting style, smite, and possibly an oath. YOU CANNOT SMITE UNARMED STRIKES. The intense MADness of 4 stats needing 13, none of which being con, make this probably best avoided.

Monk/Ranger: A monk who dips ranger gains a fighting style, some spells, and likely a hunter ability. Hunter’s Mark is a fantastic damage boost on a class with 3-4 attacks a round. The hunter or Gloomstalker ability is just more damage. This is a great choice for a 4 level dip, grabbing the precious ASI and avoiding doubling up on extra attack. It is completely void of MADness. Avoid Horizon Walker or Monster Slayer as there is too much bonus action competition.

Monk/Rogue: A monk who dips rogue gains some skills, expertise, cunning action, and possibly an archetype. The cunning action can appear like an overlap for the monk, but the ki savings are well worth it. As for archetypes, assassin could be fun to crit with all of a monk’s attacks. Arcane Trickster is a good way for a monk to get Shield spell without a 13 int/cha. Could make a solid dip, provided it doesn't go too behind on ASIs.

Monk/Sorcerer: A monk who dips sorcerer gains some spells, and possibly scales. The scales could temporarily make up for the lack of points to have a high wis, but the benefits probably won’t outweigh the MADness. The typical appeal of the sorcerer gish is the action economy of quickened, but the bonus action of the monk is already full of options. GFB/BB are pretty useless on a monk, as they cannot flurry or use martial arts without taking the attack action. These classes have little to add to each other. Shadow Monks gain some synergy with shadow sorcerer. Probably best left for niche builds.

Monk/Warlock: A monk who dips warlock gains some spells, cool invocations, and possibly a pact. It is MAD, but Armor of Shadow’s could temporarily help mitigate the lower AC. This is a common choice for the shadow monk to gain Devil’s Sight, as they can cast darkness but lack the ability to see in magical darkness. This is more of a way to fix the issues with the Shadow Monk than it is a real synergy, as the warlock can both cast and see in magical darkness without multiclassing. Casting Darkness comes with its own issues as you may essentially turn off your teammates as well, especially as a melee.

Monk/Wizard: A monk who dips wizard gains access to some spells as well as some cool subclass features. Bladesinger is one of the few ways a monk can add to AC, but the MADness makes it unlikely to be worth it. War wizard is a great dip on any martial that doesn't have a regular reaction, but otherwise there is little synergy with this combination, and it is MAD. Probably best avoided.
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Possible Builds (Leave your ideas down below!)

Tortle Monk (Way of Shadow) 18 / Barbarian 2
STR 20 DEX 8 CON 18 INT 8 WIS 18 CHA 8
This monk/barbarian multiclass uses their high Athletics skill modifier to grapple and shove enemies for advantage on punching- and even if your enemy is also a powerful athlete, you can Rage for advantage on that check. To offset the 8 (-1) dexterity stat, you have proficiency in Dex saves and Advantage on most instances- equaling about a +8 dexterity saving throw modifier- which is more than most pcs have anyways. Thanks to the Barbarian's Reckless Attack feature and this monk's already high AC, you have either advantage and the equivalent of AC 14, or 17+, depending on your magic items or if you are using your Shell Defense feature. This character can leap 16 feet into the air, thus forcing their enemy to take 1d6 damage and land prone using just barely 10' movement, if you jump 10' into the air. Using the Step of the Wind Monk feature, you can spring 30' into the air to force them to take 3d6 damage, with 20' movement remaining, at which point they can walk the prone, grappled, already hurt enemy over to the nearest rogue. I'm sure they'd love to open up the present you've given them...

Kobold Monk 17 (Way of the Open Hand), Warlock 3 (Fiend Patron)
STR 6 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 8
Now this might seem like an odd build, however the kobold and monk features mix perfectly with the warlock powers. The key to this build is to pick the Pact of the Chain. Then, pick an imp for the most powerful version of this build. Why, you ask? Well, firstly the Kobold feature Pack Tactics says "You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated." Specifically, note the "One of your allies" part. A familiar, like the one that you have, is an ally. This means you can have your familiar perch on your shoulder and have advantage, always. Additionally, you can make your familiar turn invisible, making attacks against it be with disadvantage. Finally, my favourite way to use an imp familiar is to have it carry your character. Now, an imp has a Strength score of 6. Even if you use the Variant: Encumbrance rules, it can carry 30lbs- which should be plenty for a small kobold with no armor or heavy weapons. Alright, now that we're done with that, let's move onto the general warlock features. The Fiend pact gives you the Dark One's Blessing feature, to toughen up your relatively weak melee battler a little. Take the Eldritch Blast cantrip for some ranged action, and any other cantrip you'd like. Take the Darkness, Invisibility, and any other spells you want. This way, when you are in Bright Light, you can cast Darkness, see through it, and cancel out that disadvantage.

wombat31
2019-02-09, 11:48 AM
Good guide. May i suggest adding what books the subclasses come from?

Millstone85
2019-02-09, 11:58 AM
But why a strength monk?

RogueJK
2019-02-09, 12:07 PM
But why a strength monk?


Yeah, I'm seeing no benefit over the traditional DEX/WIS monk. Same attack and damage as a DEX-based Monk, but lower AC and initiative. Potentially slightly better at grappling/shoving due to a slightly higher Athletics bonus, but Open Hand can do most of that and more while still being DEX-based.



Minotaur: Did I hear 1d10 unarmed strikes at level one? Because I think I heard 1d10 unarmed strikes at level one. Plenty of nice ribbons to boot. A perfect choice.

That's just the UA version. The actual published Minotaur from Ravnica does 1d6 damage with their horns. So you could be very slightly ahead in damage until Level 5, when every Monk starts doing 1d6 damage with their unarmed strikes.

Edit: Corrected.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 12:13 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing no benefit over the traditional DEX/WIS monk. Same attack and damage as a DEX-based Monk, but lower AC and initiative. Potentially slightly better at grappling due to a slightly higher Athletics bonus, but Open Hand can do most of that and more while still being DEX-based.

two words: grapple monk. leap off a cliff with slow fall and a stunned enemy as you pummel them with a flurry of blows. Also give them a ring of jumping and they can jump to ridiculous heights.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I'm seeing no benefit over the traditional DEX/WIS monk. Same attack and damage as a DEX-based Monk, but lower AC and initiative. Potentially slightly better at grappling due to a slightly higher Athletics bonus, but Open Hand can do most of that and more while still being DEX-based.



That's just the UA version. The actual published Minotaur from Ravnica does 1d8 damage. So you could potentially be slightly ahead in damage on one of your attacks per round until Level 11, when every Monk starts doing 1d8 damage with their unarmed strikes.

However, the Minotaur's Gore feature isn't specifically listed as an "unarmed strike" like other race's natural weapons, and it's not a Monk Weapon, so it'd be up to your DM to bend the rules and allow you to use that with Martial Arts or other monk features that rely on "unarmed strikes or monk weapon attacks".

oh, I missed that. thanks for pointing that out! ill change it.

RogueJK
2019-02-09, 12:22 PM
two words: grapple monk. leap off a cliff with slow fall and a stunned enemy as you pummel them with a flurry of blows. Also give them a ring of jumping and they can jump to ridiculous heights.

Meh. A Monk already has ways to boost its jumping. And you can simply stun/pummel the enemy before pushing him off the cliff as an Open Hand Monk.

And a DEX Monk with a moderate STR and Expertise in Athletics from a 1 level Rogue dip or a feat like Prodigy would be just as good or better at grappling as a STR-focused Monk, while still having the same attack/damage and a higher AC and Initiative.

Seems odd to handicap your AC and Initiative at all times just to focus on grappling, a maneuver which is only situationally useful.

Not to mention that Monks aren't designed to stick around next to enemies... With their moderate AC and HP, but high mobility, they're typically strikers, made to scoot in, get some hits, and then scoot back away from enemies. Not tanks, make to stick next to an enemy for extended periods. Grappling an enemy doesn't do anything to prevent them from attacking you back, and now you've locked an enemy into being right next to you. Not only that, but with your lower AC than the normal DEX Monk, a STR Monk will be sucking up a lot more hits than usual anyway.



Way of the Sun Soul (XGtE): DON'T STOP DON'T STOP WE'RE IN LUCK NOW DON'T STOP THERE'S SO MUCH TO BE FOUN- jk but this is actually every anime where they blast their spirit energy.
Radiant Sun Bolt: 30' magic punches of power.
Searing Arc Strike: The AoE that Monks desperately need.
Searing Sunburst: Radiant Fireball. For 4 Ki points. Why? Who knows. Who cares. It's great.
Sun Shield:Deal 10 damage to your enemies when they hit you. You are now a literal humanoid torch.


I'm confused as to why you rate Sun Soul so highly for a STR-based Monk. Sun Soul's primary feature, Radiant Sun Bolt, specifically states that you add your Dexterity modifier to its attack and damage rolls. You can't use STR for attack or damage on the Radiant Sun Bolt ranged attacks. And none of the other features benefit from STR either.

So STR is of zero extra benefit for a Sun Soul Monk, and you'd be noticeably worse, having a lower AC, Initiative, Attack, and Damage than a DEX-based Sun Soul Monk...

Millstone85
2019-02-09, 12:29 PM
That's just the UA version. The actual published Minotaur from Ravnica does 1d8 damage with their horns. So you could potentially be slightly ahead in damage on one of your attacks per round until Level 11, when every Monk starts doing 1d8 damage with their unarmed strikes.

But more importantly, in either version of the Minotaur their horn attack isn't specifically listed as an "unarmed strike" like other race's natural weapons. And it's not a Monk Weapon. So it'd be up to your DM to bend the rules and allow you to use that with Martial Arts or other monk features that rely on "unarmed strikes or monk weapon attacks". RAW, it doesn't work.Sorry, but I must correct your correction.
Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with them, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike. It is no more 1d8 than it is 1d10. It is in fact only 1d6. But it does count as an unarmed strike.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 12:30 PM
Meh. A Monk already has ways to boost its jumping. And you can simply stun/pummel the enemy before pushing him off the cliff as an Open Hand Monk. (Not to mention that if you're holding onto an enemy while slow-falling, the enemy is slow-falling too, thus diminishing or eliminating the amount of falling damage they'll end up taking.)

And a DEX Monk with a moderate STR and Expertise in Athletics from a 1 level Rogue dip or a feat would be just as good at grappling as a STR-based Monk, while still having the same damage and a higher AC and Initiative.



I'm confused as to why you rate Sun Soul so highly for a STR-based Monk. Sun Soul's primary feature, Radiant Sun Bolt, specifically states that you add your Dexterity modifier to its attack and damage rolls. You can't use STR for attack or damage on the Radiant Sun Bolt ranged attacks. And none of the other features benefit from STR either.

So STR is of zero extra benefit for a Sun Soul Monk, and you'd be noticeably worse, having a lower AC, Initiative, Attack, and Damage than a DEX-based Sun Soul Monk...

i thought it was just a ranged attack unarmed strike. sorry!

RogueJK
2019-02-09, 12:36 PM
Edit: Removed. Temporarily failed my WIS save against a Confusion spell.

Millstone85
2019-02-09, 12:44 PM
Sorry, but I must correct your correction of my correction.

You're pulling your Minotaur info from the UA: Centaurs and Minotaurs, which has horns that do 1d6 and are a natural weapon. But that's not the Minotaur that either I or the OP are talking about.

The OP was pulling his Minotaur info from UA: Waterborne Adventures, which has horns that do 1d10 but are not an unarmed strike or natural weapon.

I was discussing the actual official published newest Minotaur in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica, whose horns do 1d8 but are not an unarmed strike or natural weapon.I quoted that information as being from GGtR p19. I assure you that is where it is from. I have a physical copy with me right now.

RogueJK
2019-02-09, 12:48 PM
My mistake. I had too many tabs open with various 5e Minotaur options, and got them jumbled.

You are correct that the official Ravnica Minotaur has a 1d6 horn attack that is an unarmed strike.


Still, going with a Minotaur only puts you very slightly ahead in damage until Monk5, at which time all Monks start doing 1d6 damage with their unarmed strikes. Not worth the OP's original Gold rating.

Naanomi
2019-02-09, 12:57 PM
You missed Loxodon; which would be one of my top choices for STR Monks

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 12:58 PM
This was a guide to STR monks but I am changing it due to the fact that STR monks are strictly worse than regular ones.

alright so i changed it. should be better now.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 12:59 PM
You missed Loxodon; which would be one of my top choices

I love playing loxodons! I forgot they were officially published. adding right now.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 01:05 PM
You missed Loxodon; which would be one of my top choices for STR Monks

added! (apparently replies can't be less than 10 words. huh)

KorvinStarmast
2019-02-09, 01:23 PM
You could have edited your previous post.
Your opening post suffers from poor formatting. Please clear out the carriage returns in the opening descriptive piece. It looks terrible. It needs to look like this:


Her fists a blur as they detect an incoming hail of arrows, a half-elf springs over a barricade and throws herself into the massed ranks of hobgoblins on the other side. She whirls among them, knocking their blows aside and sending them reeling, until at last she stands alone.
Taking a deep breath, a human covered in tattoos settles into a battle stance. As the first charging orcs reach him, he exhales and a blast of fire roars from his mouth, engulfing his foes.
Moving with the silence of the night, a black-clad halfling steps into a shadow beneath an arch and
emerges from another inky shadow on a balcony a stone's throw away. She slides her blade free of its cloth-wrapped scabbard and peers through the open window at the tyrant prince, so vulnerable in the grip of sleep.
Whatever their discipline, monks are united in their ability to magically harness the energy that flows in their bodies. Whether channeled as a striking display of combat prowess or a subtler focus of defensive ability and speed, this energy infuses all that a monk does. If you cut and pasted that from the PHB, a footnote would be a courtesy. Yes, the page number is page 76.
Feel free to replace the badly formatted excerpt with the cleaned up one above.

cinnamoony
2019-02-09, 01:24 PM
You could have edited your previous post.
Your opening post suffers from poor formatting. Please clear out the carriage returns in the opening descriptive piece. It looks terrible. It needs to look like this:

If you cut and pasted that from the PHB, a footnote would be a courtesy. Yes, the page number is page 76.
Feel free to replace the badly formatted excerpt with the cleaned up one above.

thank you, i will.

ImproperJustice
2019-02-09, 01:44 PM
I will be curious to see how this develops.
It’s a lot of work creating a guide, so I don’t want to be too negative.

Based on your tone in some of the entries, I think your guide could use some more detailed evaluations on some of the subclasses or features.

As an example: the Kensei entry seems unfairly dismissive w/ out exploring the ideas behind using ranged weapons or certain magical weapon combinations.

Similarly, four elements has problems, no denying that, but at mid to higher tier play some of it’s abilities combined with Monk mobility can create some awesome novas and utility/ mobility options.

Blood of Gaea
2019-02-09, 02:36 PM
Way of the Kensei (XGtE): Ehhhhh, why would you want weapons?
Not sure why you discount this so easily:


+2 AC if you do one unarmed attack in your main attack.
You can pick a versatile weapon and make some attacks at 1d10 damage.
While Kensei's shot won't work well with ranged weapons due to being a Str Monk, but you can a still tack on extra with javelins or throwing axes.
You can give yourself +3 to hit and damage with your main attack action, even if you already have a + weapon. If you have a 14 Dex, this actually makes your longbow attacks as good as someone with 20 Dex, and it lasts for the entire combat.
You can reroll a missed attack once a turn, which isn't amazing, but it does make a difference.

Nhorianscum
2019-02-09, 02:41 PM
Enjoyed the read.

A pair of segments detailing your personal preferance on multiclassed or otherwise optimised build, and the tactics used with Str monk would be extremely helpful for the sort of person who needs a strmonk guide though.

IronMike
2019-10-28, 07:52 PM
Bumped this as I love playing monks and hope to see more input on this thread.

masterjoda99
2019-10-29, 01:10 AM
I for one am curious if the OP would still rate Sun Soul so highly, and if yes, why.

Yunru
2019-10-29, 07:07 AM
Why is Variant Human only blue?
It offers a +1 to both key stats, and let's you pick up Mobile without detriment to your stat progression.

EvilTwinSkippy
2019-10-29, 03:22 PM
Way of Shadow: Darkness. No parents. Lego Batman is saaaad.
Shadow Arts: Not very useful (at least in my experience).


Really? I've found a lot of these bonus spells to be incredibly useful:

Pass without Trace? Gives your low DEX buddy in heavy armour a chance to not blow group Stealth checks.
Silence? Handy way to shut down enemy casters or quietly take out the guards.
Darkvision? Takes away the one main drawback to going Vhuman. Lasts 8 hours, so you can even short rest to get the Ki points back.

Darkness is, well yeah, meh, but all the rest are golden. Good guide, and I'm enjoying reading it. Just had that one little quibble.

MaxWilson
2019-10-29, 05:05 PM
Really? I've found a lot of these bonus spells to be incredibly useful:

Pass without Trace? Gives your low DEX buddy in heavy armour a chance to not blow group Stealth checks.
Silence? Handy way to shut down enemy casters or quietly take out the guards.
Darkvision? Takes away the one main drawback to going Vhuman. Lasts 8 hours, so you can even short rest to get the Ki points back.

Darkness is, well yeah, meh, but all the rest are golden. Good guide, and I'm enjoying reading it. Just had that one little quibble.

Pass Without Trace is awesome. Surprising monsters is like a free Action Surge for everybody in the party; it can also give you the chance to scout ahead and things things up before engaging with monsters. E.g. lay some caltrops and Snare spells/Glyph of Warding/Symbol and set up the party Sharpshooter in just the right location before drawing the monsters into an attack on your prepared position. Pass Without Trace becomes even more awesome at 11th level when you acquire at-will, no-concentration invisibility (outside of bright light).

By mid-level (8th or so) you actually have enough ki that you can just tell the DM the party has Pass Without Trace up all the time, as long as you're willing to take a break every 4 hours or so to meditate and regain ki.

If your monk has the Alert feat, Darkness is effectively Blur against any non-blindsight/truesight enemy, with free Disengages built in.

Silence + movement (so you can threaten Stunning Strike opportunity attacks) is a pretty good anti-spellcaster play (can also shut down Shield/Counterspell), especially if you can constraint which direction they have to move in to escape the Silence. (Also depends on whether the DM rules that they know what the Silence's AoE is and which direction is the closest escape, or if they have to guess.)

Shadow Monk = Darkvision for the whole party, on a short rest, is also quite good if the party is trying to be sneaky in the dark.

Minor Illusion can be useful in stealth-on-stealth battles in the dark and also in infiltrations. The ability to create sounds without requiring concentration or even an action (after the spell is already cast) is the best part of the spell. Maybe you and a bunch of drow are all hiding in the dark with Readied actions to shoot each other: when someone blows a Stealth check, all of his enemies do their Readied attacks on that guy, and then all of their enemies do their readied attacks on the guys who just gave away their own positions by shooting at the guy who blew his Stealth. But if the guy who blew his Stealth check wasn't really a guy at all, just a Minor Illusion making noise, then all of those drow attacks were wasted...

TL;DR Darkness and Pass Without Trace are the best parts but the others are situationally useful.

Zerubbabel
2019-10-30, 03:03 AM
This guide is amazing thank you, can you (if not too much trouble) suggest for me a good initial build to save time for an Aarakocra Monk (Way of the Sun Soul)?
I would love to try this build out in Decent into Avernus, as flight will make things a bit more approachable if I need to scout ahead.

Warlush
2019-10-31, 12:16 AM
[B][ortle Monk (Way of Shadow) 18 / Barbarian 2
STR 20 DEX 8 CON 18 INT 8 WIS 18 CHA 8
This monk/barbarian multiclass uses their high Athletics skill modifier to grapple and shove enemies for advantage on punching- and even if your enemy is also a powerful athlete, you can Rage for advantage on that check. To offset the 8 (-1) dexterity stat, you have proficiency in Dex saves and Advantage on most instances- equaling about a +8 dexterity saving throw modifier- which is more than most pcs have anyways. Thanks to the Barbarian's Reckless Attack feature and this monk's already high AC, you have either advantage and the equivalent of AC 14, or 17+, depending on your magic items or if you are using your Shell Defense feature. This character can leap 16 feet into the air, thus forcing their enemy to take 1d6 damage and land prone using just barely 10' movement, if you jump 10' into the air. Using the Step of the Wind Monk feature, you can spring 30' into the air to force them to take 3d6 damage, with 20' movement remaining, at which point they can walk the prone, grappled, already hurt enemy over to the nearest rogue. I'm sure they'd love to open up the present you've given them...

Kobold Monk 17 (Way of the Open Hand), Warlock 3 (Fiend Patron)
STR 6 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 8
Now this might seem like an odd build, however the kobold and monk features mix perfectly with the warlock powers. The key to this build is to pick the Pact of the Chain. Then, pick an imp for the most powerful version of this build. Why, you ask? Well, firstly the Kobold feature Pack Tactics says "You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated." Specifically, note the "One of your allies" part. A familiar, like the one that you have, is an ally. This means you can have your familiar perch on your shoulder and have advantage, always. Additionally, you can make your familiar turn invisible, making attacks against it be with disadvantage. Finally, my favourite way to use an imp familiar is to have it carry your character. Now, an imp has a Strength score of 6. Even if you use the Variant: Encumbrance rules, it can carry 30lbs- which should be plenty for a small kobold with no armor or heavy weapons. Alright, now that we're done with that, let's move onto the general warlock features. The Fiend pact gives you the Dark One's Blessing feature, to toughen up your relatively weak melee battler a little. Take the Eldritch Blast cantrip for some ranged action, and any other cantrip you'd like. Take the Darkness, Invisibility, and any other spells you want. This way, when you are in Bright Light, you can cast Darkness, see throughB]

These builds don't meet the multiclassing requirements.

Player 2112
2020-08-29, 01:49 PM
[NOTE TO SELF... COPY REPLY FIRST]

Okay, new guy here but I have relied on you in the past.
Let me tell you bub though, we will be having WORDS.

I play druids, monks, rangers and sorc/wiz most often but I have a Forge Cleric I like.

And WHILE some places use ALL the UE or sources, most games do not.

Your "Rating of the Monks" is bloody UNSAT. While 4 Elements is not cool and the Sun Soul IS, all are regular blue, except for the 4 Elems.

And Kensai... look, have you ever played a Kensai? (Looks like a BIG NO).

First observation, just in plain Kensai. In a high magic campaign, with nothing but the Kensai... it holds its own, well.
Second, why does everyone forget, especially at low levels the monk has a bonus action "Unarmed strike with or without a monk weapon".
Playing this is key, to the Kensai especially and I play 2 regularly and weekly.

For Example, in town, dealing with BBEG's minions (trash mobs) at 3L, minions throw down in the bar.
Any Monk, this is heaven but with the Kensai... and mind you, large game, 2 monks, yada yada... and we be "The White Hat Good Guys from the Capitol", IE, killing taxpayers comes out of OUR CHECK.

So we throw down, monks FIRST ...
Sun Soul guy could not pop his AOE without catching taxpayers AND US. So reduced to a "simple monk" thus hit and Flurry of Blows... dropping his, non lethal...
Kensai guy (me) 1 kick and then a non lethal drop of mine with my spear.
Long story short, my +2 AC on a 27 point buy build stood, so did the fighter and Cleric and gnome archer ranger... 20 down and only 6 dead, we took it out of our Horizon Walker's pay. We also had to spare the dying on the Sun Soul.
+2 AC, pretty bad ass.
Go outside for the rest, volley from us, duck behind buildings and wait.. Fighter 1 end and the kensai who dropped the bruiser (kensai shot) on the other, spear ready. Kick once a turn and pound time.

My Gloom Stalker 5 Kensai 3 WITH ZEPHYR STRIKE (Best 1st level non healing spell IN THE GAME) WREAKS THE DM'S TRAPS SO BAD...
I am 8th lev, facing a effing dragon, on the surface. Stacking a d4+Hunter's Mark or Zephyr Strike+ Dread Ambush + Kensai Shot and crit hunting with a Ghostwise halfling? Super stealthy, almost always with advantage in the underdark?
That can literally run by or under anyone causing advantage for party?? (Zephyr Strike).

Naw man, Kensai is the bomb on dual class, drop the mike when with a ranger. Good with Druid or Cleric too.
And a ghostwise monk is badass, just to run by everyone creating OE for others with step of the wind (or the 1 min Zephyr Strike)...
Adding defensive duelist seems unfair to the DM... so I will do that too.

So play test and do not think that the Kensai is weak...

Player 2112
2020-08-29, 02:59 PM
Not sure why you discount this so easily:


+2 AC if you do one unarmed attack in your main attack.
You can pick a versatile weapon and make some attacks at 1d10 damage.
While Kensei's shot won't work well with ranged weapons due to being a Str Monk, but you can a still tack on extra with javelins or throwing axes.
You can give yourself +3 to hit and damage with your main attack action, even if you already have a + weapon. If you have a 14 Dex, this actually makes your longbow attacks as good as someone with 20 Dex, and it lasts for the entire combat.
You can reroll a missed attack once a turn, which isn't amazing, but it does make a difference.


Kensai are the best for low magic and official games (forgot what they are called).
Spear is versatile too. Really cool.
Have not played end game one offs with one yet, best is lev 12 in a high magic with low magic on the monk just to show others the game mechanics are good enough. Feats took were defensive duelist and 2 ability score upgrades (well 4, the DM thought he needed str and let me boost dex as well) to hit the 20 dex and 18 wis from a base 27. That DM also allowed me a chain whip (modified infantry flail, used 2H so I have reach) we call The Meteor. Think Chaki Jan in Shanghai Noon with a horse shoe only with a chain.
Overall, Drunken Master got nothing on the Kensai, simply because the Kensai has the best AC in the monk class. Yes you have to declare and roll to hit but it burns ki slower allowing the Sharpen the Blade to work in a crawl.

Player 2112
2020-08-29, 04:57 PM
Way of the Kensei (XGtE): Personally, I don't like this subclass, so I may seem overly dismissive, but here we go anyways.
Path of the Kensei:This is why you chose this subclass. Kensei Weapons- Pick a melee and ranged weapon. You are now proficient with them, and additionally they count as 'Kensei Weapons' aka special monk weapons. Aka 1d10 WHIP WHOO. Agile Parry - aka +2 ac Kensei Shot - Use a bonus action to deal an extra d4 on your ranged attack that turn Way of the Brush - Ribbon.
One with the Blade: Now your kensei weapons are magical and also if you hit you can spend a ki pt. to deal extra damage.
Sharpen the Blade: Now you can spend ki to make your weapon kill things better. Pretty cool, but by the time you get this, you probably already have at LEAST +1 weapons.////

This actually is accounted for but having a +3 weapon should be rare.
And it stacks with the MA dice...
/////
Unnering Accuracy - Did I miss? Are you sure? Are you REALLY SURE?


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Multiclassing Monk (From PeteNutButter's Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide)

Monk/Barbarian: Light Blue if you're a tortle STR monk, as that makes this MC STR-based and not a MAD mess.

Monk/Bard: A monk who dips bard gains access to some skills, spells and jack of all trades. If a monk wants spells they are best left to picking a WIS-based class. If they want skills, they can get rogue. There is little to no reason to attempt this MAD build. Probably best avoided.///

Not bad advice.

/////

Monk/Cleric: A monk who dips cleric gains access to some spells, and cool domain features. The spells go great on a monk who typically lacks anything to concentrate on, but already has a high wisdom. This is a great combination that has little drawbacks. As long as the monk picks up extra attack, itÂ’s hard to go wrong here.

Monk/Druid: A monk who dips druid gains access to some spells and maybe Wildshape. Wildshape wonÂ’t be very useful in combat as a dip, but still useful for stealth or exploration. The spells are a great addition to the monk who already has a high wisdom, and nothing to concentrate on. The lack of metal armor is no love lost here, and your team will be happy to have one more person that can heal. The cleric option is slightly better, but this is still overall quite strong.

Monk/Fighter: A monk who dips fighter gains a fighting style, action surge and possibly an archetype. Each subclass can have it's appeal for a monk. A great dip, best taking exactly 4 levels of it, so as not to lose an ASI or double up on extra attack.


Monk/Ranger: A monk who dips ranger gains a fighting style, some spells, and likely a hunter ability. HunterÂ’s Mark is a fantastic damage boost on a class with 3-4 attacks a round. The hunter or Gloomstalker ability is just more damage. This is a great choice for a 4 level dip, grabbing the precious ASI and avoiding doubling up on extra attack. It is completely void of MADness. Avoid Horizon Walker or Monster Slayer as there is too much bonus action competition. ////

Playing this, is AWESOME! And Zephyr Strike is Fantastic.

Monk/Rogue: A monk who dips rogue gains some skills, expertise, cunning action, and possibly an archetype. The cunning action can appear like an overlap for the monk, but the ki savings are well worth it. As for archetypes, assassin could be fun to crit with all of a monkÂ’s attacks. Arcane Trickster is a good way for a monk to get Shield spell without a 13 int/cha. Could make a solid dip, provided it doesn't go too behind on ASIs.

Monk/Sorcerer: A monk who dips sorcerer gains some spells, and possibly scales. The scales could temporarily make up for the lack of points to have a high wis, but the benefits probably wonÂ’t outweigh the MADness. The typical appeal of the sorcerer gish is the action economy of quickened, but the bonus action of the monk is already full of options. GFB/BB are pretty useless on a monk, as they cannot flurry or use martial arts without taking the attack action. These classes have little to add to each other. Shadow Monks gain some synergy with shadow sorcerer. Probably best left for niche builds.

Monk/Warlock: A monk who dips warlock gains some spells, cool invocations, and possibly a pact. It is MAD, but Armor of ShadowÂ’s could temporarily help mitigate the lower AC. This is a common choice for the shadow monk to gain DevilÂ’s Sight, as they can cast darkness but lack the ability to see in magical darkness. This is more of a way to fix the issues with the Shadow Monk than it is a real synergy, as the warlock can both cast and see in magical darkness without multiclassing. Casting Darkness comes with its own issues as you may essentially turn off your teammates as well, especially as a melee.

Monk/Wizard: A monk who dips wizard gains access to some spells as well as some cool subclass features. Bladesinger is one of the few ways a monk can add to AC, but the MADness makes it unlikely to be worth it. War wizard is a great dip on any martial that doesn't have a regular reaction, but otherwise there is little synergy with this combination, and it is MAD. Probably best avoided.
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Possible Builds (Leave your ideas down below!)

Tortle Monk (Way of Shadow) 18 / Barbarian 2
STR 20 DEX 8 CON 18 INT 8 WIS 18 CHA 8
This monk/barbarian multiclass uses their high Athletics skill modifier to grapple and shove enemies for advantage on punching- and even if your enemy is also a powerful athlete, you can Rage for advantage on that check. To offset the 8 (-1) dexterity stat, you have proficiency in Dex saves and Advantage on most instances- equaling about a +8 dexterity saving throw modifier- which is more than most pcs have anyways. Thanks to the Barbarian's Reckless Attack feature and this monk's already high AC, you have either advantage and the equivalent of AC 14, or 17+, depending on your magic items or if you are using your Shell Defense feature. This character can leap 16 feet into the air, thus forcing their enemy to take 1d6 damage and land prone using just barely 10' movement, if you jump 10' into the air. Using the Step of the Wind Monk feature, you can spring 30' into the air to force them to take 3d6 damage, with 20' movement remaining, at which point they can walk the prone, grappled, already hurt enemy over to the nearest rogue. I'm sure they'd love to open up the present you've given them...

Kobold Monk 17 (Way of the Open Hand), Warlock 3 (Fiend Patron)
STR 6 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 8
Now this might seem like an odd build, however the kobold and monk features mix perfectly with the warlock powers. The key to this build is to pick the Pact of the Chain. Then, pick an imp for the most powerful version of this build. Why, you ask? Well, firstly the Kobold feature Pack Tactics says "You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated." Specifically, note the "One of your allies" part. A familiar, like the one that you have, is an ally. This means you can have your familiar perch on your shoulder and have advantage, always. Additionally, you can make your familiar turn invisible, making attacks against it be with disadvantage. Finally, my favourite way to use an imp familiar is to have it carry your character. Now, an imp has a Strength score of 6. Even if you use the Variant: Encumbrance rules, it can carry 30lbs- which should be plenty for a small kobold with no armor or heavy weapons. Alright, now that we're done with that, let's move onto the general warlock features. The Fiend pact gives you the Dark One's Blessing feature, to toughen up your relatively weak melee battler a little. Take the Eldritch Blast cantrip for some ranged action, and any other cantrip you'd like. Take the Darkness, Invisibility, and any other spells you want. This way, when you are in Bright Light, you can cast Darkness, see through it, and cancel out that disadvantage.[/QUOTE]

Ghostwise Halfling Kensai 12, Gloomstalker 8
Str10, Dex20, Con 12, Int10, Wis 18, Cha 10. Sharp shooter feat, Defensive Duelist feet on ambush with a round to prepare hunter's mark.
Let me put it this way, [1d6+1d6+1d4+10+5] x2 WITH ADVANTAGE plus the same with an extra d8 damage...
Played right is always with advantage.
If they get on that... break out Dancing with the Spears ... it is not with Sharpshooter but +3 TH and DMG with +2 AC so they are trying to hit an AC 26

Yakk
2020-08-30, 04:10 AM
Kobold Monk 17 (Way of the Open Hand), Warlock 3 (Fiend Patron)
STR 6 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 16 CHA 8
13 cha needed.

Peelee
2020-08-30, 10:11 PM
The Mod on the Silver Mountain: This thread has not yet hit 15th level, unfortunately.